GrouchoMarxJr

Evan...this stuff is great! I thought that I had heard most of the war stories but the inner sactum thing is a new one for me! ...and wierwille called himself the "grand wizard"? Holy crap, I think I just wet myself laughing! :D--> :D--> :D--> Might any pictures exist? What a hoot! The first time I saw "clergy robes" was at the dedication of the Rome City campus...I believe it was about 1976...My WOW family was allowed to attend from Chicago...(they were trying to find warm bodies to have a "crowd" for Veepee)...So anyway, I'm standing out in the crowd, waiting for the trustees to walk out...and suddenly here they come...all dressed in robes! I was shocked, it was totally unexpected, I didn't know that twi folks wore robes, nobody told me...I honestly thought it was a joke, a skit or something...I burst out laughing!!! Realizing that I was the only one laughing, I "stiffled" myself quickly...it only lasted a fraction of a second, a few people noticed and I recall feeling embarrased...and now you're telling me about the grand wizard and his hooded robe! ROFLMAO Oh yeah...and about the 6th corps folks who were doing the wild mambo...we want NAMES!!! ;)-->

Hills...I haven't seen ya in awhile...hope things are well with you. I second the motion for the sports forum! Go Bills!!! :D-->

To all you bone spitters...be careful not to let one "slip by", you just might choke on it.

Trefor...With Rosie and Donna running things...ya never know! ;)--> Personally, I would rather go on "Fear Factor" and eat live bugs.

Personalentertainr...or may I call you P.E.? You summed up the 70's, 80's and 90's quite nicely. I was also in the 10th corps...you're lucky that you got out when you did. ;)-->

waysurvivor...sounds to me like you had it worse than most folks did in their twi experience... As you overcome your difficulties, you will become stronger with each victory...this is a good place to come for encouragement and friends who understand. Sometimes there is a lot of disagreement on certain issues and some folks (myself included), can be downright ornery...but that's because we are all individuals here with different ideas and opinions...a refreshing contrast to when we were all brainwashed in the cult...so, kick your shoes off and relax with the rest of us. ;)-->

I remember going light bearers...it was a nightmare. The leadership at Emporia had told us that each group that failed to put a class together, would be kicked out of the corps. Our group failed, as did most. When I got back to Emporia, I started packing my stuff to leave... They called us all into an "emergency" meeting and informed us that they changed their mind and we could all stay. While others around me were cheering, I was thinking to myself that they had no integrity. I also was wondering why they had held me responsible for "causing the increase"...I had planted and watered, that was it, as far as I was concerned. Twi coerced us into being a free sales force in their marketing scam. It was nothing more than an "Amway" type of scheme, with a so-called Christian veneer. Wierwille should have received an Academy award for how he cried on stage at the ROA, calling the WOW's "his kids"...sending out thousands of young people to hawk his wares to an unsuspecting public and receiving no compensation for their troubles.

Abundant sharing = protection money. corps household = meat puppets present truth = an excuse to change the teachings adultery = a form of idolatry that has nothing to do with sex

Actually it wasn't the jump shot...it was the hook shot, that he took credit for. How stupid did he think we were?

Whatever happened to the "power", in pfal? I never saw it. Remember how Veepee would go on about today's Christians being powerless? "...just when they need it the most, it not there!" He talked about how the church was being destroyed for lack of knowledge...Well, just when HE needed it the most, it wasn't there either. Why didn't somebody unleash the healing power that they learned in pfal, and chase that demon cancer right out of him? Why didn't God warn Veepee not to chose lcm?...Like I said, just when he needed it the most, it wasn't there. He was talking out of his a$$...the only power that Veepee ever knew, was the power of your money.

I recall when folks would want to add "credibility" to some book, they would say that is was "corp reading"...like that made it special. --> The elitism of the corps manifested itself in numerous ways.

The doctrine of the trinity...is he is or is he ain't?...I doubt that you can find too many Christians who agree on EVERYTHING doctrinal...why make the trinity such a line of demarcation? I'm not qualified to say who is right or wrong, and I seriously doubt that God will seperate the trinitarians from the non-trinitarians and send them to different heavens.

waysurvivor says to me "You are a disgusting pig who has no place being here"... Looks like we got off on the wrong foot? If all that stuff really happened, then I was certainly being insensitive. To be honest, it never entered my mind that it was true...the story was the most extreme case that I had ever heard taking place in twi and the black robes and the dunkings and boxes with spiders...well, in spite of coolwater's helpful psycoanalysis, it still seems pretty bizare to me. If I upset you, it was not my intention and I apologize for that. My earlier post was written to someone who I thought was pulling a prank.

Heck, he could stretch it out to half an hour by giving an additional teaching about the relationship between the king and and all of his female subjects.

Mike...when you're finished with your break...take your time... Question...Since you are so obviously convinced of the greatness of pfal, what exactly are you doing to "master" it? I would assume that the educational value would, by necessity, be translated into practical application eventually. Have you started teaching the class on your own yet, to others? Do you have a home fellowship? Are you "networking" with other fellowships? Do you personally have a "gift ministry"? I was just wondering what you did, besides post here, arguing with people that are either amused or annoyed or both, by your antics. I must say, if I were as convinced as you are of pfal, I would be doing something other than posting here with all these heretics. That is, unless it was only a "head trip" for me.

Well, there was that one weekend when we all put on black robes...but that was because we were dunking witches that day. Waysurvivor...You probably should check yourself into a mental institution...either that or find one of those sex web sites that will let you post your creative but lurid stories.

Yeah Mike...I read your post, quoting Veepee. I read NOTHING that would indicate that wierwille knew the first thing about a relationship with Jesus Christ...I guess we just have different ideas about what a relationship with someone else consists of...

Oakspear...Of course your logic is sound but as far as I can tell, Mike (mogjr) doesn't respond to logic or common sense. In fact, he even ignore his own bible when it comes to selecting the Christian leader that he is to follow. The criteria for Christian leadership is clear and wierwille fails to qualify. In fact, in terms of his behavior,wierwille failed to qualify as even an "average Christian", according to the bible's standards. He was a lying, plagurizing, drunken womanizer. His arrogance was the opposite of being humble and meek. The evil perpetrated by lcm was wierwille's doing and his legacy. The condition that twi is in today can be traced back to wierwille's wrong doctrines and his wrong behavior. Mike is living in a pretend world where he feels safe and secure...really too bad.

Mike...I'm not sure that any skill is required in dealing with you. I see no purpose in a debate because you start off with the assumption that pfal was "revelation from God". I do not share this same assumption and therefore am at a loss in understanding any purpose for a debate between us to occur...your mind is made up. You begin with the belief that wierwille was right, and then "work from there"...I mean, you're entitled to believe wierwille if you so choose, this is America. Since I became more objective, the errors in pfal are as glaring as they are plentiful. Your mind, however is not objective. You insist that wierwille was "connected" to the Almighty when he wrote his pfal books. I'm not sure if you are even able to see the errors, even when pointed out to you.

If they would listen: "I want my money back!"

Mike...you said..."Since it is revelation from God..." I think I see the problem here. You just made a huge jump in logic, with nothing to back that up. It's impossible to prove or disprove whether or not wierwille put together pfal by revelation! You simply have decided to believe this. I'm afraid that I do not share this belief with you. If I were to list every person who claims that God has spoken to them...I'm afraid that my keyboard would wear out first. Mike...I hate to tell you this, but Veepee lied to us about the "God talking to him thingy"...the snow on the gas pumps, the story about the racetrack...all of it. He just made it up. If God talked to wierwille, how come he picked lcm to replace himself? :D--> I understand now, why you are so adament about defending pfal...to you, it's the same as the bible. "The book of wierwille"...why don't we just take the pfal books and staple them in the bible right after the Pauline epistles...let's give Veepee his due. Does that sound about right Mike? Of course, you've elevated the class even higher than wierwille himself did...and that IS amazing. I can't help but feel that someday in the future, you will be trying to forget how you were conned for so many years. The longer that you cling to this broken cistern, the more broken and bitter you will eventually become. To climb that high into the clouds of man worship, only assures that your plummet downward will end in a crushing realization of despair. I trust that when that time comes for you...and it will...that we here at the GS will be here to help you begin your recovery.

Mike says "The only reason I actually do have a better command of the material is because..." So you admit it? Scheesh, what a humble guy! I guess that does make you kinda special...I mean, the guy with the "better command" should be addressed as...hmmm, let's see...how about Mogjr? The fact that you have NO IDEA of how much of the material I have "command" of, let alone, dozens of other posters here, doesn't seem to stand in the way of your determining your superiority in this regard...yes, I can see that you are indeed a true disciple of your "father in the word". Mike, you don't just come across as arrogant...you ARE arrogant. Be that as it may, I have read more of your posts than you think...enough to realize that you may be mentally ill. At best you're a source of amusement and at worst, you're a prime example of why wierwille's doctrines were wrong.

I did a little editing of my own...see above post

Mike...I can't imagine anything that you could possibly say to "benefit" me. Twi NEVER taught about having a relationship with Christ...he was the "absent one". Mike...certainly you don't think that you are the only one here with an accurate knowledge of what wierwille actually taught and wrote, do you? I have most everything wierwille wrote...in book form. You seem to have this delusion that you have a monopoly on understanding this material better than the rest of us...Cannot you understand that someone can understand wierwille's doctrine as well as you or even better and STILL reject it as being wrong? How arrogant and pompous of you to assume that anyone who rejects the works of wierwille, simply doesn't understand it as well as Mike does!

Invisible Dan...You made some really excellant points. When you think about it, the 1st century Christians didn't have the written gospels or church epistles to "rightly divide". Gosh, no classes or seminars? No concordances? Plenty of signs miracles and wonders though... The moral teachings of Jesus were not only ignored...but actually belittled! I can still hear wierwille saying how we cannot pray the way Jesus told us to pray...explaining how that prayer was wrong for us because it was in the "old testament"...I can still hear his sarcastic tone as he read Jesus's prayer from the gospels...