GrouchoMarxJr

johniam says..."Why should they learn this by getting beat up on the elementary school playground or by getting sent to jail when they can learn it in the "comfort" of their home and family." OK, I have a theory...I think johniam is totally goofing on us...he's seeing how many buttons he can push by saying these outrageous things! This is his way of having fun...first, he says the most outrageous and stupid thing he can think of, and then waits for our responses! He is probably drinking a cold beer and laughing his foot off as he reads the posts!...Am I right? C'mon fess up...I'm on to you now...nobody could possibly suggest that it's better to beat your child at home to teach him a lesson, than to have them get beat at school to learn the lesson..I think you got carried away with your own sense of humor...C'mon now, fess up and we'll all laugh together...

Just Thinking...My BC wasn't clever enough to think up the "bad steward tax thing"...I was told that I should do the blue form because the MOG said it was important!...No other reason! I backed the BC into a corner when I asked him what other things that are contrary to the bible does the MOG think are important? I walked away saying that his "MOG" was "off the word" and so was he if he followed him...The BC wasn't used to hearing that...usually he was the one quoting chapter and verse...

I once ate lunch with Woody Hayes (former OSU coach) I think Beavis and Butthead are hilarious I am really good at stringing chairs I like to eat sweet pickles with peanut butter I cook on the grill everyday for my dogs.

Frankee...I'm not angry, honest. It was merely an observation that I made while in an unusually calm state of mind... If the word "sicko" was a bit too harsh, then I profusely apologize to any and all that I may have offended. Perhaps I should have used the word "socially disturbed individual" instead. ;)-->

As far as the Yates woman goes...I have a hard time with the death penalty. I think it's wrong. Self defense...sure. If a guy is shootin' at you or is about to take a butcher knife to a loved one...sure thing, blow his head off with your 12 gauge, and do it quick...but the death penalty? Here's my problem with it...the guy has been CAPTURED. To put him to death at this point, is premeditated killing of someone who is no longer a threat and is unable to defend himself...it's pure revenge. You are committing the very act that you are putting him to death for committing...and that's not even to mention the fact that many on death row have been recently proven innocent by DNA testing...you kill somebody, there's no taking it back.

..."driving him up a wall..." "clock her like she deserves". It's always wrong for a man to hit a woman. Nobody can drive you up a wall, you have to do that yourself...johniam, I hate to say this, but you sound like a sicko.

..."lucyandrickie"? ...Sounds like somebody has some 'splainin' to do.

During the years that I "abundantly shared" (1975-1987), We were always told that 10% was the minimum and we were expected to give at LEAST 15%...of the gross. During that time I probably coughed up about 50 grand. It hurts like a toothache to even think about it. I would much rather remember my last 6 months in twi when I sent them NOTHING... :D--> When the BC got on my case...I told him that I was giving anonymously because God knew how much I was giving and that's all that mattered according to the bible...he got madder than hell and demanded that I put it on the "blue form"...Of course I had stopped giving them anything at all by this time and simply refused to do the "blue form" thing...this went on for a few weeks until I was told that if I didn't do the "blue form" thing, I would no longer be able to be a "twig coordinator"...I respnded by telling the BC that not only would I not use the "blue form" ever again, but that I refused to accept any ABS from anyone in my fellowship because I thought that twi was misusing the money...of course the .... hit the fan and that was that... ;)--> Besides...I didn't need anybody spitting in my direction anyway.

I'd pay good money to watch Rozilla do a "Fear Factor" stunt...maybe stick her head into a bucket of live maggots, grub worms and cockroaches...and then after her head is submerged...then she can start giving her apologies.

Good suggestions made by all...however, my pick is Scott Peterson. He has those boyish good looks and the same moral and sexual proclivities as former twi presidents...

Ex10...When Stephen was stoned, the Lord stood up... When Martinfail was fired, He sat back down. ;)-->

Seeing that Martinfail was a grad of the 2nd corps, I would be interested to know his current corps status...I know he was stripped of his clergy status and ousted as president...but was he ever dropped corps? I mean, what a disgrace...failing to "live up" to the high standards (ha ha ha) of the mighty waycorps! After all his screaming about "cop outs", what's his own lame excuse?

There's no doubt that Martinfart was insane. A good psychologist would have a field day with him. How far did he think he could push people? Intruding into people's lives to such a degree should have caused people to leave in droves!...Oh yeah, they did. I left in 1987 when this type of thing was just starting. It defies logic that Martinfail could not see the damage he was doing or how unChristian his thoughts and actions were...

Howard wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but even HE saw the handwriting on the wall. Lcm had about as much chance of "getting it right" as a one legged man in an foot kicking contest. Vic would have done better to put Tick in charge.

When did the suspicions start? I always noticed a difference in how the top leaders acted when they were in public and how they acted when they were away from the crowds...it was disturbing. I suppose the suspicions were always there...they became an issue after Veepee croaked and martindumb started changing the bible around to suit himself. I suppose when lcm started dancing around in tights, smoking pot and screwing the leading lady of the "production"...I would call that a major turning point.

Steve...Your story is all too familiar. I recall being pressured to get people to take the class or get rid of them. So much emphasis was placed on the "class" that we totally lost sight of caring about people and seeing their hearts. Some of the finest people I know walked away from twi because of someone trying to pressure them or make them feel guilty or browbeating them in one way or another. On the other hand, I knew a lot of dysfunctional, selfish, insensitive jerks, who were held in high esteem because they showed up regularly and dropped their dough into the horn. The goal was of twi was clear...run people through the classes and get them coming to twig...it was all about money and walking in lockstep with the hierarchy. Building a Christian community based on love, integrity and faith was not of primary concern. Faithfulness was an equation on a blue form and trusting God meant subjecting yourself to unreasonable men.

Light Bearers...Another bait and switch! They told us that if we didn't get a class together, we would be asked to leave the corps...Liars!!! After we returned to Emporia, they "changed their minds"...they never intended to kick us out...it was just more fear motivation...Plus, they taught that God gave the increase, but, notwithstanding, held us responsible when the increase didn't happen! They had no integrity...it was all a con.

...And another thing that bugged the .... out of me while in residence, were their bait and switch tactics. When I signed up, I made a FOUR YEAR commitment. That was it! It was optional to take assignments upon graduation...at least, that's what they said in WRITING! A couple of months into the training, at Emporia, they tell us all that we have made a LIFETIME commitment to the corps!...and if we don't "understand THAT"...then we are "spiritually out to lunch". I sat there listening to this crap, muttering under my breath that I only committed for 4 years, getting angrier by the moment as everybody just sat there with a glazed look on their faces saying "yup, yup"...not me! I regret not packing my stuff up and splitting right then and there!

Harmony in the home? Twi destroyed marriages. They turned family members against one another and totally perverted the dynamics of the family relationships. The husband was taught to treat his wife with contempt and to keep her in her "place". The wife was taught that she was subordinate and not to be trusted. She also was taught that her husband would never measure up to the standards set by the top twi leaders who were also trying to bed her down. They stuck their noses into everyone's business and they were horribly underqualified to help anyone. The advice given was almost always wrong and if believed, could lead one into a mental nightmare of subjugation and abuse.

I recall the disapointment of realizing that to be successful in the corps, you had to be an a$$kisser. That's when I lost my heart for the program and the rest was all down hill. If I wanted to degrade myself THAT much, I would have had more fun continuing my hedonistic lifestyle from the late sixties. As it was, I was looking for something a little more wholesome than what was being dished out at Emporia...

Ex10...I would never try to shame you or anyone else who felt that they benefitted from their corps experince. I was only speaking for myself. I made friends in the corps and value the memories of many fine people I met there...but I still regret my corps experience....It's like this...If I go to a movie and it turns out to be a bad movie, I can regret going to the movie without having any bad feelings for the other people who also went to see the same movie. Maybe some of those folks LIKED the movie...that's ok with me. All I'm saying is that, in spite of the fact that some people liked the movie, I still wish that I had never gone. Same thing here...It's allright with me if some folks evaluate their corps experience differently than I do...Everybody is different and I appreciate the fact that there ARE different opinions!

It's almost as if religious hierarchies, inevitably produce a variety of sexual abuses (amoung other corrupt and evil practices), simply because of their very nature. As soon as an individual's personal faith becomes a matter of organizational dogma, the abuses ensue. Spirituality was never meant to be institutionalized and marketed as a product. Those at the top of the pecking order become drunk with power that they never should have had in the first place and the sincere follower ends up on their knees, snorkling the philosophical sausage of some guy in a silk suit.

I think a lot of the changes that occurred to me when was in in twi, were "surface changes". My authentic self was never really gone, it was just supressed beneath the surface. So much of the twi changes were behavioral in nature...wayspeak, waythink, wayactivities, etc, etc. As soon as I left twi, there was an enormous elation and feeling of new found freedom. It was just the "true me" resurfacing.

All of it is a smoke screen...the fact is, they are desperate to revive the rolls of the "faithful" in order to generate more revenue. All they can do now is try different marketing schemes and sales pitches...they have no viable product. A cult without a cult leader, is like the vegamatic without Ron Pompeil...Wierwille put on a dog and pony show, he drew in the crowds...What's Rosie gonna do to draw in crowds?...Show some leg?...There's no reason for anybody to be there anymore...think about it. There's many here (myself included), that were enticed and taken in, by a somewhat charismatic and crafty grifter...how pathetic is it to be held spellbound by the likes of Rosie the mean dyke? What could possibly be more distasteful than to be integrated into the diobolical twi matrix of abuse, without even the benefit of having a raving cult leader that could inspire blind allegience? I don't understand what keeps the place afloat...

...Back to the subject of the thread... I think Oaks got it just about right...but don't forget about the connection to the teamsters...where do think all those clown suits came from?