GrouchoMarxJr

The questions are only simple if you are not trying to hide something... ;)-->

There were a lot of people who were aware of the phoniness of it all...some of them tried to be more "real" but eventually got squished by that big boot of conformity. People dealt with it differently...I maintained friendships outside of twi and would often vent to them about life's problems...when it came time for wayworld, the smile was back... I think deep down, most of us knew it was hypocitical...another reason why it fell apart.

justloafing...How true that is...We had to put up with anybody and everybody that showed up for twig...nobody ever got booted... Martinfail was there in the early days of twi 1 just like a lot of us were...it probably irked him to no end, having to allow all the misfits to attend fellowships...He waited for the day when he could excercize absolute authority and purge twi of all those who didn't meet his standards... The fact that people had always been welcomed with open arms, no matter who they were, was a main drawing card that kept a lot of people involved...it indicated a certain level of unconditional acceptance...it indicated that there was a Christian concept acually at work...of course, this was distasteful to loy...his callousness and mean spiritedness had been waiting patiently until the day when he could unfurl his wrath upon the infidels... The twi inquisitions of the 90's were a direct manifestation of martinfails own uncaring, mean personality...I'm amazed that it didn't unravel even faster than it did...what a jerk he was.

Mike...you are beyond reason. I feel compelled to break the bad news to you...you are insane.

I won two thousand dollars on a lottery ticket...there were no deebil spirits attached to any of that money...

skyrider...your post was refreshing to my soul! Beginning to think again for yourself is a powerful thing... Excathedra...yeah, the teaching of the "downfall" was involved with a step by step progression...the bottom line was that they disobeyed God. Twi twists this section of Genesis to get people to understand that questioning your spiritual leader is wrong...yet that's not what it says at all...According to the bible, we are responsible to select our spiritual leaders with much consideration...question them?...you bet!

"Compared to the PFAL writings, the KJV takes a lower place, though." I suspect that such outlandish remarks are meant to provoke. Certainly nobody with half a brain could possibly take you seriously. Mike, I remember quite well that Wierwille, during the pfal class...elevates the bible far above his own writings. How many times did we hear Veepee say...(I'm paraphrasing) "It's the word, the word and nothing but the word. I may make mistakes in my writings and what I teach but the word of God is perfect." Wierille NEVER intended for anyone to elevate his class as you have done. You have done exactly what Veepee warned people NOT to do. How utterly foolish of you to embrace the writings of a man such as this...and call them "God breathed". Wierwille's writings were not God breathed, in fact his writings are a joke and don't even meet the standards of "Man breathed" in any qualitive way.

Mr.Hammeroni...I think you hit the nail on the head...If it's true, then why hide behind closed doors for fear of the GSers?... C'mon Rosie...if you got the truth, the world needs it! why not go into the public forum of discussion and present your truth for all to hear? Go, stand and speak...isn't that what the bible says? It doesn't say to stay, sit and be quiet...Didn't Paul go up on Mars hill and take on all comers? Didn't Jesus go into the public places to teach and set an example? Didn't Jesus confront the religios leaders of his time with truth? When love is the motivation, open dialogue and honest questions are encouraged...when fear is the motivation, censorship, control and supression of honest questions are the norm. There's a difference between allowing a teacher to present his point of view without interruption...and a teacher who refuses to allow questions or any dissenting views. The bible encourages people to "consider these things to see if they are so". If a free exchange of ideas and concerns is not permitted, then you are a sorry foot excuse for a "Christian ministry".

..."Mike, you are unworthy to even wipe the hiney of the least of the KJV translators." ROFLMAO... :D--> :D--> :D--> Welcome home Evan...

Looks like Mike is now pointing fingers and quoting verses...how typical of religious fanatics. Mike, you speak for no one but yourself...trust me on this. For you to suggest that grifter Vic's plagiarized class was "God breathed" suggests to me that you are in need of some serious therapy. Wierwille never claimed that...he claimed just the opposite.

Ban Mike?...NO WAY! Readng Mike's posts keeps me in stitches... :D--> It's sorta like a combination of "Fire Sign Theater" and the "Twilight Zone"...with the ghost of Wierwille always present. Mike IS that man that he always knew to be...that one true disciple of the great one...and a constant reminder to all of us, what we escaped from...Hal a loo ya! ;)--> :D-->

A lot of folks don't like the word "brainwashed"...call it what you want, it was a deliberate attempt to control people's thoughts and behavior through a calculated method. Power for abundant living was an indoctrination tool that brought people into the "fold"...which meant they would now give twi money and recruit more suckers who would give twi money. When asked why "Christians should be proposterous" was always the very first "assignment" given to the new student, the standard reply was, "So they can begin to operate the principles of giving and receiving"... :D--> :D--> :D--> Wierwille was a hell of a grifter...he was the PT Barnum of Christianity...had the cash cow engine "hittin' on all 8"...ALL of his teachings supported the notion of giving twi your money...and the glue that held it all together...was our undying dedication and willingness to accept everything the old cornfield preacher said WITHOUT QUESTION. Some folks may think that I am a cynic and that I'm bitter...well, I'm neither. I've been out for 18 years and it's a long way back in my past now...I've healed...I've healed to the point that today I laugh at myself for being so stupid...sometimes it gets comical when you really think about it. I also laugh and poke fun at those who were responsible...and in some cases, still are. I survived the experience and I'm here to let people know...people who are just getting out...it takes some time...but go ahead and crack a smile...cause things are gonna be just fine. ;)--> ...And for those of you who are still innies, and lurking on this thread...go ahead, I doubledog dare you...start asking yourself some honest questions...it's not the debbil whispering in your ear...it's your own God given common sense that is tugging at your heart. Of course God wants us to have faith...but in Him...not in other people and certainly not in some cult.

Busted up a gas line did they?...Good thing that they aren't allowed to smoke...I could see it now... A chain reaction of gas explosions leveling every building at twi hdqrts...flames consuming all the tapes and books, Donna running out of the burning corps chalet with her hair ablaze, staff running down wierwille road escaping with their lives, John Linder coughing up soot as he vainly tries to carry out his hard drive, Rosie crawling out of her smoke filled office, carrying the mantle in her teeth...and from the fountain of living water, a ghostly voice saying " it's about time..."

Rosie will continue to sit on the throne until she either gets too old and falls off, or unless somebody hits the "flush" and sends her to the septic tank where former cult leaders are relegated to. There, she will swim with the fishes.

Asking questions implies an interaction of thought. The reason why questions were not allowed to be asked during pfal was NOT because "most of them would be answered in the class"...but rather to impose a form of indoctrination that was subjective in nature. Information came IN...your job was not to question it, ask for clarification,or to express disagreement. The information was not open to debate...your job was to sit there like a sponge and soak it up. Censorship and control is always necessary in a closed environment like twi. Free thought and questions are frowned upon.

I knew a corps grad that told me that he had received revelation that he was to enter into the race for the US Senate... He had never attended college and had no political experience. When I asked him how he intended to run his campaign...he grinned and said "I dunno"...and then he popped another beer...he was serious.

The so-called "law of believing" was twi's way of explaining why some folks had it good and others had it bad...of course there is no such law... therefore...are we to assume that God is partial towards some folks? Some really good folks get the .... end of the stick while the wicked thrive...you pray for somebody and they recover...what about the 10 you prayed for and they died? Miracles? Maybe when something "unusually good" happens, you call it a miracle...maybe it is, but what do you call it when something "unusually bad" happens? I believe there is a God, but I question how much control He has of events in this "free will" world that He set in motion.

Twi's pastey faced world of fake smiles, fake words, and fake lives promotes a very shallow and dishonest existence...it not only limits free thought and expression, but it also cripples the soul's ability to connect on a deeper level with others. Their little web forum is simply another manifestation of their never ending need to control their "followers"...and as we all know, control freaks are very fearful people.

It's unbelievable how so many still worship at the feet of Vic the grifter and his spermsickle cult. I say throw out the baby with the bathwater.

...and so many things that we were conditioned to believe, were the very mechanisms they needed to control us.

I wonder what the guy at Bally's thought when he read Loy's resume: "Former man of God for our day and time, defrocked minister, accused rapist, and bench warmer..." He's lucky he got any job at all...maybe they needed somebody to stock the shelves with Ben Gay.

..."You have to get your needs and wants parallel" --> --> --> That one didn't make any sense, even when I was glassy eyed.

Let me see..."Former glassy eyed cult member seeking employment. Experience in stringing chairs and leading songs..." Somehow my affiliation with twi always "escaped" from making it onto my resume.

In order to register, they want to know who your region and branch coordinators are...how did you guys manage to register?

HCW...You bring back numerous memories for me, of the dastardly "meals" that were shoved in front of my face at Emporia. I recall the lump of millet and brocoli...it was like eating wet cement that had some green stuff in it...nasty. I was one of the "I'll eat ANTHING I can chew" guys...I remember being hungry ALL THE TIME when I was at Emporia. I lived for those nights when the barf burgers were sold after the fellowship...I recall almost getting into a fist fight over an extra banana that some girl left on her plate...this other guy (who was a real "dufus"), grabbed for the banana at the same time I did...it was ugly. My worst memory was when they had sent us to town to go "witnessing" and we were supposed to be back in time for dinner...(they were having strawberry shortcake that night...the only thing that was actually good), the guy I was "teamed" with wouldn't quit talking to this townie...I was looking at my watch and tapping my foot...finally we headed back to campus...ran into the cafeteria...20 seconds too late. I sat there starving, watching everybody eat the strawberry shortcake...