GrouchoMarxJr

After reading the provided links concerning the Peeler case, am I correct that they are sueing twi for the ABS money they gave?... If that's the case, I'm gonna file my lawsuit next week!

I suppose it's human nature to WANT things to turn out positive. That human desire was what twi exploited with their destructive doctrine of "believing = receiving". Of course, as many of us now know, it was just another lie. This form of "mind power", is the same concept that is promoted in witchcraft. I have personally witnessed numerous serious situations where the person would ignore the reality in favor of twi's "wishful thinking" doctrine. Invariably, they would suffer the negative consequences. A lot of former twi folks STILL do not know how destructive and counterproductive this doctrine was...

Yeah...What George said... There were always stories circulating about some supernatural event that occurred...cars passing through each other, Veepee being teleported, Veepee being whisked away to the third heaven and earth, limbs growing back, terminal diseases vanishing... People WANTED to believe in these stories. It validated twi for many people...of course, none of these things ever happened. Twi "leadership" wanted so badly for paranormal activities to occur, that they allowed false rumors to circulate. The fact that there were no real occurrances, seemed to elude them.

...Some excellant points presented on this thread. Of course, Martindale twisted the verses to meet his desired end...his "debt doctrine" was ludicrous at best. It was totally illogical and destructive at the same time. It's amazing to me that people swallowed this poison pill...I left in 1987 when darth martinfart first started his fear and loathing campaigns. Sins of debt?...What kind of sin is involved with what twi has done to so many people? Suicides, broken marriages, financial ruination, lost careers...what does twi "owe" these people?

TaylorCompany...I noticed that this was your first post. I hope there are many more to follow. Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe...Raf should be around soon with your complimentary cup of coffee.

I recall, very well, the days of Ted Patrick and the many deprogrammings, my father (who thought I was crazier than a pet spider monkey for being involved with twi), was too cheap to ever consider hiring one of the deprogrammers. I was one of those who deprogrammed himself... :P--> -->...

I often wonder when Martinfail used the phrase "He is risen", if he was actually referring to his purported use of viagra.

Tell them they are making a horrible mistake. Tell them to read the countless testimonies of former twi followers here at the Greasespot Cafe...

...When I left twi in 1987, I put the "double malokey" on lcm and never looked back. I figured that was just as valid as his "greasespot by midnight" claims were.

Substance to twi or it's offshoots? I think the fact that these offshoots even exist is a testimony more to the psychological make up of it followers rather than any "substance" that may lie resident within the organization itself. Some folks thrive on having "spiritual gurus" run their lives for them...Some sort of "learned helplessness", fueled by a sense of self loathing and misdirection. It was really pathetic watching former twi folks rally around their favorite cult leader so that they could continue to be glassy eyed chumps...Sorta like watching a junkie go from heroin to methadone.

There I was, doing my business in the restroom at BJ's bar and grill...it was almost closing time and the crowd was thinning out. I was thinking about how I was going to drive home in this condition when suddenly, I saw it! On the floor, next to the comode, the swirled "residues" left on the floor, had formed the face of the Virgin Mary. This paranormal act was astounding in and of itself...but when I noticed her mouth formed in a perfect "O", and each hand holding up three fingers each (like "W's")...on either side of her face...I knew for a certainty that the word was over the world...and I knew that it was my waycorps training that had given me this in depth spiritual awareness...they called me a cab.

...pernicious means deadly and destructive. I always thought that 1st Timothy, chapter 6 was appropriate in describing twi leadership...I think it says something like, "depart from them" or "flee from them". One good thing that came out of my twi experience is that today I have a fully functioning bull.... meter. I see these guys coming from a mile away.

Martinfart would probably stand up after lunch and begin screaming about how this woman walked away from the protection of the household and deserves to die. He would use her as an example of a disobedient wife and undisciplined person. He would spit all over people's faces, as he ranted and raved about how this woman wasn't worth the nutrients that were being sent through her IV tube...He would volunteer to go and pull the plug himself...and then he would condemn anyone who showed compassion for her. He would probably applaud the husband who wants to kill her as an act of "destroying the vessel" and redeeming himself as a righteous man. He would conclude by giving a "teaching" on how having severe brain damage is a form of devil possesion.

Wearing a green name tag = spiritual enlightenment

Fortunately, I was out of twi by 1987...but even in the "early years", this same doctrine of wives submitting was taught...Of course, it was not implemented nor enforced the way it was after madman martindale took the reins. I don't blame the women for feeling the way that they do about this issue. Oldies....I'm sure that there were probably a few marriages where the woman was "quietly dominant" behind the scenes, but those examples are far and few between...I think that perhaps your little icon with the whip is reflective of your own sexual proclivities? As far as it goes, the twi doctrine for marriages was dreadfully oppressive. Twi destroyed hundreds, perhaps thousands of marriages with their WRONG TEACHINGS. Of course, leave it to Mark to try to justify this despicable doctrine...and all this is based on what again? Oh yeah, I remember...Paul wrote a letter to some Christians 2 thousand years ago that lived in an entirely different culture than ours. The integrity of the word? I don't think so...I think it's a case of people turning Paul's letters into something they were never meant to be. Perhaps Mark would feel more comfortable living in Iran, where his wife would wear a veil over her face and walk 10 feet behind him...they also agree with twi doctrine.

A myriad of maggotts A den of decay An ashram of ash holes A batallion of bastards A cesspool of snot swallowers A bus load of bozos A spiderhole of spit suckers A seplecre of sex perverts A room full of rebrobates A grave of grifters

No, we're not talking about petunias, we're talking about offshoots...Hey darth vaden...if you don't like it here, why did you start the thread? Anyway...I find it interesting that these offshoot "leaders" are so obsessed with having people join THEIR group...Back in the twi days, these same guys competed against each other for top positions and prestiege...The old "I ran more classes than you did" mentality, which was the gauntlet that one ran in order to climb the wretched way tree...is still evident today with these splinter groups. Why is it so damn important to JAL or VF or JS or any of these other clowns that people indentify with them? I'll tell you why...it's because they always wanted to be just like Veepee, they wanted to be the top honcho, the big banana, the holy kahuna, the mogster!...Every new recruit they land, reflects on how great THEY are, how wonderful THEIR ministry is, how their religiously inadequet lives need the validation of glassy eyed fu*kchimps setting the mints on the podium for them. It's almost unbelievable that after the "twi experience", these Elmer Gantry wannabes are still trying to create God in their own image and then slam dunk every sincere "follower" that ventures too close to their lairs... "Don't lend your hand to raise no flag upon a ship of fools"...Jerry Garcia/ Robert Hunter

This whole issue of debt is a joke...The REAL question that should be directed towards Bob Moneyhands or any of the other spit suckers with twi, is...What in the world gives them even the slightest idea that it's any of their business what anybody does with their own finances! ...Since when does the "preacher" from your church tell you what to do with your own money?...or for that matter...They expect people to be ANSWERABLE TO THEM!!! :D--> :D--> :D--> Hey Bob...Stick it in your ear!

There were as many levels of involvement as there were people involved. I know of folks who took the class, came to twig for a few months and disapeared...never gave it a second thought and were not seriously effected. I know of others who were involved to the max for many years, top leadership positions...and are still trying to sort things out. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the closer to the fire that you got, the more you got burned. How to get past it? Just asking that question indicates open eyes and a recognition of the truth. I suppose that personal responsibility falls into the category of "God looks on the heart"...Each person who was involved knows what their motives and intentions were. We all have certain experiences in common but yet, each of us had an overall unique experience...the "highest" that I ever climbed on the waytree, was that of being an area coordinator with corps status...when I left, I felt somewhat guilty for all those that I led into the the cult...but I also felt good for the honest concern and caring I had for people...it's a mixed bag...guilt by association? ...life's too short to condemn myself for the good intentions I had... We go through life accumulating various experiences...I think about those people who have been to war, or to prison, or lost family members in the sunami, or some other horrible experience...it gives me a better perspective of what I have to deal with. Like most people, I live with a certain degree of guilt for certain things that I have done in my life...In all honesty, I have no feelings of guilt for the things I did in twi...regret?, yes. Guilt?, no. During that chapter of my life, I was honestly trying to do God's will...By seperating the evil of the cult from my own intentions, I am able to distinguish the difference (for me personally), between the things that I should feel genuinely guilty about and the things that I shouldn't feel guilty about...In all honesty, MOST of the folks involved with both being on staff or out in the field of screams...were victims. The insideousness of twi was that they took advantage of a lot of really good people who meant well.

The question "Does the end justify the means" does not really apply to twi. Their means were corrupt and their ends were corrupt. Ye shall know them by their fruit...

Showering at the roa...ah yes, what fond memories. I recall my first rock in 1976...stepping under the shower at 5:30 am, only to discover that ALL the water was ice cold. At first it takes your breath away, and then the temperature of the water begins to freeze your skin and just before hypothermia sets in, you step out and begin to dry yourself faster than you ever did before. It woke me up better than coffee.

I didn't want to say anything about it, but I have also heard the "toilet paper on the shoe" story about Howard Allen...and worse... I have been told that he often "comes up missing"...they have found him walking, late at night, down country roads in his underwear or pajamas.

When Wierwille made the claim that "God taught me the word as it had not been known since the first century"...he effectively laid the foundation of seperating twi from the rest of Christianity. This seperation was marked with arrogance, elitism, and destructive behavior. Although the bible clearly says that there should be "no divisions" amoung Christians, Martindale's entire "ministry" was to drive wedges between Christians with his vulgar and hateful rhetoric. When I first got into twi, I made an attempt to bring pfal into a few local churches...the preachers of the local churches told me that Wierwille was a dangerous whacko...and Wierwille told me that he had forgotten more than that boy will ever know...Martindale carried it to another level with his "Hitler like" rantings, screaming obscenities about the local churches being "seed boys" and spitting all over his audience... ...And both of these guys claimed to love God's people! Twi caused thousands of people to turn their backs on Christian churches of every denomination...and why?...because Wierwille couldn't make the grade in his own denomination (being fired for sexual indiscretions...hmmm, now that sounds familiar)...Veepee was jealous of people like Billy Graham, he felt he had been "passed over"...so he set out to get revenge! He was the MOG!...How dare all those churches not acknowledge that fact!!! He was furious and he was frustrated... ...But then one day, it came to him. He took Stile's class and while the other students in the class were all saying to themselves, "Isn't God great"...Wierwille was saying to himself, "Aha, I'll run my own class just like this one, and then I will be the great power of God". To complete his "Simon the sorcerer" routine, he introduced his corporate structure, fueled by the "donations" he received for stealing someone else's work. He piled up millions of dollars. Martindale, on the other hand, depended solely on his aggressive personality and his vulger mouth. He was just plain mean and enjoyed bad mouthing anything that he chose to badmouth. Wierwille and Martindale both "spit" all over me for 13 years...that was quite enough for me.

I'll never forget the sight when I first arrived at Rome City campus in 1979...everybody was walking around with a spoon in their hand...the kids seemed "dysfunctional" to me...and then after I got a load of Bob Moneyhand's dog and pony show, and the way he "set the pace" for the treatment of children...I wouldn't be surprised if most of those kids ended up in therapy somewhere.

Of course some of the folks in twi had nobel intentions and caring hearts, other did not. The bottom line was that the foundation of twi was doctrinally flawed. Whoever taught the wrong doctrine, contributed nothing to my Christian education. The line of demarcation is that many of the top leaders became corrupt and INTENDED harmful deceptions on people. Those are the ones that I hold responsible. Who were they? Veepee Wierwille for one, lc Martindale for another. From these two, many "clones" were produced...how about evil associations corrupt good morals...or a little leaven, etc etc. I cannot name the name of every false teacher and abuser of God's people...the testamonies of those here at GS could easily name names of most of the top leaders of twi...but I think the point is, if anyone was truly following the Lord Jesus, they departed from twi. It was a corrupt system. Built on wrong doctrine and run by dishonest and abusive men. I commend those who genuinely followed the Lord in their ministering to people...in spite of twi.