GrouchoMarxJr

What does twi have to offer?... Twi has nothing, therefore, it has nothing to offer. You can't even give someone the measles unless you have it first. ;)-->

Rozilla and co. will keep the ship floating, no matter how small the numbers get. In order for them to keep their "non-profit organization lifestyle" going, they must at least give the appearances of being legit...As long as they keep an "open" sign on the front door and go through the motions, they will continue to meet their legal requirments for their money making charade. At this point I'm sure they all realize that twi is a failed project with no hope for recovery...but they must pretend in order to keep getting their sizeable paychecks.

...Calling the cops on a 5 year old girl and then handcuffing her? Unbelievable...What's next...boot camp for toddlers?

Yes, I believe that martindale did get "greasespot by midnight" from a comic book. In fact, it was the "Fantastic Four" by Marvel comics. Ben Grimm, "The Thing"...used the phrase quite often, along with other such noteables as "It's clobberin' time" and "You couldn't scare a second hand Barbie doll". It was written for the mentality of a 12 year old boy. Apparently, martindale related to this "mindset" in his "spiritual athletic endeavors".

...And besides, it helps to keep our writing skills sharp. ;)-->

...My guess is Slim Lonsdorf.

Why keep the plane? Since they lost all the properties...and most of their followers, there's no reason for Rozilla to fly anywhere. I mean, who would meet her at the airport? Vic Wierwille was an extremely insecure man. He desperatly needed to be the center of attention and to be adored by all...he craved this. In fact, Wierwille literally fabricated incredible stories, to make himself, not only look good...but to look "God-like". He had a lot of people conned into thinking that he was not only an apostle, but the GREATEST apostle since Paul of Tarsus. Being in his presense was the greatest priviledge of your otherwise, sorry foot life. To hear him speak...oh, how we hung on his every word...and he loved every minute of it. He ate it up like grandma's meatloaf. The truth of the matter is that Wierwille was a self serving egomaniac with delusions of grandeur. He was dishonest, uncaring, and dangerous. The gulf between what Wierwiile wanted people to believe about him...and the truth of who he really was...is MASSIVE. Perhaps that is one reason that folks have a difficult time with hearing about the real wierwille. It's difficult to go from "greatest apostle in 2000 years" to "sexual predator and lying bastard" without some sort of "emotional short circuiting". People don't want to believe it...they rationalize..."he was a good teacher, he taught me lots of bible stuff, we all had a good time at the nightowl, etc, etc, etc. They become offended at the harshness displayed towards wierwille... Well, IMHO, anything of value that you got out of your twi experience had very little, if anything to do with vpw. Bottom line...he lied in God's name and used people for his own self gratification. As long as people continue to worship vic the mog, they will continue to be mentally captivated within wayworld. Recognizing wierwille for what he was, is a huge step in recovery.

Ah yes...the inventor of the hook shot. C'mon, nobody seriously believes that, do they? Karl K. covers Vic's basketball experiences in his book "The cult that snapped"... Making up a story about inventing the hook shot is not so far fetched in the mind of someone who has stolen the works of other people and presented it as his own. It would seem that Wierwille's tall tales knew no bounds...he also claimed that Ray Kroc stole his idea for the MacDonalds chain and that God had shown him the third heaven and earth in a vision similar to John's, when he wrote the book of revelation...and who could forget the snow on the gas pumps...the stories that wierwille made up, reflect a very disturbed and insecure individual.

I don't regret my heart's intentions, or my desire to pursue after God. That IS why I was involved with twi. I made a bad choice and joined the ranks of the glassy eyed brigade, I was a mark for a grifter. I met some great people and had some good times...BUT, that happened in spite of twi, not because of it. Was it worth it?...Hell no. I would have met some great people and had some good times in any number of different scenarios, I didn't need to "experience" the holy grifter and his nazi waycorp "training". I sure didn't need twi to learn the bible, they got it mostly wrong anyway. Was it worth it?...That's sorta like the question, "Besides the other thing that happened, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?"

...All of this makes me think of that demented weekend of torture that was known as "Christian Family and Sex". Oh, how they lauded it to the sky..."the greatest teaching on this subject ever, etc, etc, blah blah blah."...Looking back, this had to be twi's ultimate trash class. Sophmoric at best, Wierwille's teaching on "Every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king" came out of this one, if I'm not mistaken...and of course, the particular delight that Vic seemed to display when describing the "slang words"...which of course makes perfect sense that an Ohio cornfield preacher would know so many "slang words", that the rest of us 22 year old hippies had never heard before... --> ...And then the hypocracy of Wierwille...as he goes on and teaches his wonderful little ditty about putting his wife on a "pedestal"...treating her like his "queen". Giving the impression that he was a dutiful and caring husband, who adored his wife...yeah right. All the while degrading and abusing her, as he escorted young girls into the back of the motorcoach. Wierwille spoke of love...the truth of the matter is that NO man can treat his wife that way and be anything more than a scum bag. Wierwille loved himself and that's it. He loved being the "great one", he loved all the adoration heaped upon him...it was always about him. Christian family and sex?...Could there have been a man less qualified to teach that subject, than grifter Vic?

The seeds of twi's "doctrine of dominance" were planted during the early years of twi. I was married in 1977 and was bombarded with this horrible teaching of being the "head of the house"...and my wife being "in subjugation". It went against my own inclinations and my personality. I had to literally force myself to "assume my responsibilities" as twi put it. My wife was made to feel inferior, when in fact, she was just as capable, if not more, than I was in certain "leadership" categories. Twi had no business sticking their nose into anyone's relationship. Every couple is different and should work "things" out between themselves...instead of some snot nosed corps grad ( whose entire experience with a woman was confined to a Hustler magazine and a jar of vaseline)...sitting there telling you how to treat your wife. It was sick. Twi destroyed more marriages than most people imagine. Wierwille's attitude towards women was imposed on everyone in twi. The man was an adulterer and a tyrant.

Keep em coming... :P--> ...That if everyone in the state of Ohio gave me a quarter, I could retire tomorrow.

Garth...Being non-trinitarian has NOTHING to do with destructive behavior, IMHO. The trinitarians perceive them as heretics and that is why THEY call them a cult. I call them a cult for other reasons. I do believe that twi followers are involved with destructive behavior, but that is NOT why I call them a cult either. I tell people that twi is a cult so that they will avoid getting involved with destructive behavior...BUT the destructive behavior is not what makes them a cult. I agree with your description of what the word cult triggers in people's minds...and again, I find twi worthy of such a title.

Hammer...The name Rozilla is a combination of Rosalie and Godzilla...the Rug Muncher part refers to a "unique appetite" that she has developed.

rascal...I guess there are some folks who just can't let go of the MOG myth...wierwille apologists usually stick their heads up just long enough to demonstrate the long lasting effects that "waybrain" has had on some people.

You're right Garth...the word "cult" does carry with it "a destructive nature". That's why I use it to describe twi. I suppose if a lot of folks thought that it really WAS an icecream social, maybe they wouldn't hestitate in selling their assets and giving them to twi...afterall, everybody knows that icecream socials are a good thing...but on the other hand, if I call it a cult...maybe they will pause to think about what they are getting involved with. Whether or not twi fits your definition of a cult (maybe you think there are no such things as cults), I find it appropriate that such a term be attached to this "outfit". It's easier than simply calling it a "dangerous group" and more effective as well. As far as your question..."And isn't loading the language one of the hallmarks of a 'cult'?" Where do you draw the line between "loading the language" and simply utilizing the most appropriate word to describe what you are attempting to communicate? C'mon Garth...If you don't use words to describe things...shall we use sign language? ...or perhaps draw pictures?

Maybe because the new pope is German...I dunno, but when I saw him grinning with his new pope hat on, for just a split second he looked like Veepee wierwille! That round German face and those sunk in eyes... His reputation is that of a staunch conservative who has put in considerable time in understanding church doctrine...hmmm, as long as doesn't start handing out green name tags...

Whether to use the word "cult" or not, is just a matter of semantics. You can call it an "icecream social" for all I care. The name you give it doesn't change what they did to people. It doesn't change the lies, the false doctrines, the abuses, the scandals, etc., etc. Some folks don't like the word "brainwashed" either...ok, so call it "Christian education"...It doesn't matter what label what you put on it. What it did to folks is still the same.

I recall back in the late 70's and early 80's...wierwille was supposedly considering who he would select to replace himself as president...and he actually had quite a large selection of somewhat charismatic leaders to choose from. There were people from the early corps who had developed their skills in numerous areas and it was a matter of selecting one from a highly talented pool of candidates. Jump a short time later into the future...lcm now has to pick his replacement. Let's see now, shall it be...hmmmm, gee there's nobody left to pick from! Oh well, "ladies and gentlemen, would you please stand and give a round of applause to twi's newest president...ROZILLA THE RUG MUNCHER!"

...Is that anything like spiritual sex?

..."spiritual anger"? Oh yeah, another waybrain term.

You tell me what you think of victor paul wierwille, and I'll tell you how far you have come in your cult recovery...

That if you chose 23 people at random, the odds are that two of them have the same birthday.

Lighten up a little Garth...The reason why non-trinitarian=cult, is because the vast majority of Christians are trinitarian. Perhaps the word "cult" is not to your taste, but many of us find the term to be appropriate. The staunch trinitarians will tell you that wierwille's views are to be considered heresy. It's the non-trinitarian doctrine of twi, more than anything else, that has seperated and alienated twi from other Christian churches...and we all know this stuff. I contend that wierwille knew full well that his non-trinitarian teachings would seperate twi from other churches...and that's WHY he taught it.Wierwille would not allow "his" ministry to be integrated into mainstream Christianity...he NEEDED twi to be a "cult", so that he could be the MOG! Big MOG in a little pond...His self righteous, condemning attitude towards trinitarians was calculated. It was all about singling himself out. He needed the controversy to do what he did...So yes, twi was and is a cult in the truest sense of the word...and their non-trinitarian doctrine contributes greatly to that designation.

quote: "If it weren't for vpw, I never would have learned the slang terms of the late 60's and early 70's for anal sex" ...If it weren't for vpw, A lot of people would not have HAD anal sex.