GrouchoMarxJr

Oh yes...learning to lead songs was a rite of passage for all prospective twi leaders...learning Dorthy's ooom pah pah method of bouncing your hands, was standard corps training...Most corps grads didn't have a pot to .... in or a window to throw it out of...but, by Gawd, they could leap onto a stage, at the drop of a hat and boldly lead us all in one of the old standards... Gawd, it was awful.

Song my friend...I am not involved with a high (or a low) profile splinter group...I'm an independant sort, these days... :P-->

CF&S...Another attempt by Vic to educate us in the "hole" of the werd...and what a sham the "class" was...it was touted as the "greatest teaching" on the subject anywhere on planet earth...and in reality, the class was wretched... Grifter Vic lays out a short biology lesson that most 6th graders get (only much better), then he goes off reading a lot of stuff from proverbs regarding the "virtuous woman"...remember all that stuff?...Put her on a pedastel?...and all the while, he was holding Dorthea up as the woman he adored...he was bumpin' uglies with young girls in the motorcoach...HYPOCRITE! In public, he used his wife as a "showpiece" of sorts...but it was all to make HIM look good...in private, he abused her terribly. ...and now this adulterous cornfield grifter is gonna sit there and teach us all about the Christian family...and also about SEX??? Like he knew anything about it...righhhhht...and lets not forget that this was the class where his now infamous "every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king" line came from...and of course, the wink, wink, nudge, nudge when it came to the subject of abortions... ...and yeah, Vic DID get a twinkle in his eye when he "shared" with us all those nasty dirty words...but of course, he was doing it for our benefit...it isn't every day that you can find a middle aged, conservative, preacher from Ohio...that is willing to teach a bunch of 20 year old hippies the latest "street jargon" to keep us on our guard...

Well...Life is comprised of experiences...and each experience impacts us in one degree or another. I understand what Catcup is talking about...there are nuances and subtleties all around us. I've had similar experiences where I will see some sort of "professional presentation" and my mind goes back in a way similar to Catcup's... ...but let me say...my mind is so far removed from those days that even when I recognize some subtle thought that was influenced by twi...it really doesn't bother me anymore. When trying to "control" waybrain, don't make the mistake of sweeping it under the rug and allowing it to become repressed...it's better to deal with it head on, draw some conclusions and resolve some issues within yourself...that's why GreaseSpot is so therapuetic.

OK...I delved into the livingtree site and found out something interesting...in the "newsletter archives", I see that the guy writing the letter and signing as the president of this outfit...is none other than an 8th corps guy that I remember...his initials are A.G....anyway, it sort of ties it all together.

Whoever is pulling this scam, learned well from their "fadder in da werd"... ;)-->

Even Wierwille tried to get lcm to calm down over this AOS malarkey...I believe that when old Vic saw the production, he knew that the whole shebang was going down the terlet... Who remembers the "comic book" that came out at the roa...featuring a cartoon version of lcm in his debbil fighting leotards on the cover? I think it was a coloring book for kids... I recall thinking at the time..."Sheesch, they've made him a cartoon character like the Green Lantern, or Aquaman..." What a freaking moron he was...I sit and laugh until my whole body shakes when I think about the AOS production...it's as if lcm was announcing to every twi follower, "Hey, look at me, I'm a freaking moron!"...then he would posture himself like Prince Namor, the Submariner...and suddenly he would leap through the air, moving like a ruptured chimpanzee...his holy spurt leotards demonstrating to one and all...that he WAS the mighty mighty mog... and at the gathering together, )Christ was absent for that one too), Loy opened his arms and saved us all...a tear forms in the corner of my eye, just thinking about it...Oh gawwwwd,

...Hmmm, so who has the legal rights to the piffle series?

AOS...One of my favorite twi subjects...This had to be the epitomization of Martindale, the buffoon, at his best. The sight of him frolicking around in his holy spirit leotards, still evokes uncontrollable laughter in some circles...and as if this wasn't bad enough, it was also a demonstration of his total lack of skill at "working the word". His complete abandonment of all logic, when piecing together his "jockology" doctrine, was only a precursor of things to come...Eve, the lesbian, no mortages, loyalty oaths, etc., etc. I think Karl Kohler presents the best overview of AOS that I have seen, in his book "The cult that snapped"...a MUST read for all extwiers...

Innocent on all charges...that's what the jury said...and understand this...this jury was a conservative jury...8 women and 4 men...no blacks. I don't feel the same way that I did when they found OJ Simpson innocent...I was shocked and angry...because I thought he was guilty as hell, and still do....but this was different... It was a tough case to prove, to begin with...and a lot of it seems to have boiled down to he his word against theirs. This jury deliberated for days and days...this was their verdict... Michael Jackson jokes aside, if you believe in the justice system in our country, you must allow Mr Jackson the priviledge of being found not guilty...he stood before the jury and these were the results...had it gone the other way, he would have ended up a bunboy in a nasty prison...as it is, I understand that the "Jackson Five" are to reunite and go on a world tour...He was found not guilty, I'll lay nothing to his charge.

I have been smoking for 37 years... The idea of quitting gives me cold sweats. It's a filthy, expensive, self destructive habit that makes your breath and your home smell like a ____________________ (fill in the blank) Raf...only 18 month old habit?...quit now while you can...In spite of what our good friend who pulls teeth for a living says...the addiction is powerful...If I only had 3 dollars to my name, I would buy a pack of smokes and forego eating...For me, to be out of Marlboros is akin to being held under water and not being able to take a breath. I wish I were the non-smoker that I knew to be... :(-->

...and who recalls the teaching that there was a debbil spurt named Jesus?...and if you prayed to Jesus, you might get possessed? There's no way that Jesus was allowed into a twi fellowship...that would have encroached on the twi leader's "authority" and right to run your life for you.

I received similar threats from martindale in 1979...only I got them verbally...over the telephone... yes...martindale's god was a vidictive sonofab*tch...fire and brimstone...threats and words designed to hurt. I wonder how he has "evaluated" his own "spiritual condition" since he has been defrocked, humiliated and relegated to unloading trucks?

...Had Wierwille actually put in practice what he taught concerning "the mystery"...he could not have been the mog and his waytree hierarcy would have been kaputz...that's why he followed the old testament model... I guess when he got his false teeth, it didn't bother him as much...an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? sung to the tune of Cat Steven's "Moonshadow": ...and if I ever lose my eye, the ABS might all run dry, and if I ever lose my eye, yea yea yea yea yea, yea yea yea yea...I won't be the mog no moooooore.

Wierwille was THEE man of Gawd for the whole freaking world, just as I am the fifth Beatle...the question that I would pose is...was he even a legitimate Christian clergyman? When the "adults" of his own congregation gave him the heave ho, he decided to prey on youngsters who were naive and idealistic. He built his cult by recruiting kids whose brains were half fried from taking too much acid and had already rejected the "established order" of the church...why?...because mainstream Christianity saw through him like a cheap suit. I know there are exceptions to this...but overall, that was his MO. He always showed special affection towards anyone from the mainstream of Christianity that was stupid enough to fall for his scam (ie: Ross T. and others). I think satori nailed it when he spoke of Veepee's ego. It was always about him...his so-called concern for others was simply another way to draw attention to himself...that's why Christ was declared AWOL...so that the mighty manofgawd could step into that position himself. Nobody likes to think that they wasted years and years of their life following a con man...maybe that's why some folks try to rationalize that he "wasn't so bad afterall"... ...And yes, I knew the man personally for years...I experienced his "love" and "leadership" and heard him teach countless times...and that's WHY I have such a low opinion of him. HE LIED IN GOD's NAME!...I'll make no excuses for him.

Wierwille's spirituality? I think you guys are giving him "way" too much credit. The guy was a fast talking grifter who built an organization by conning young people out of their money... Did I mention money?...Wierwille stole a bunch of "stuff" from some Christian writers and teachers...and passed it off as his own insight...spirituality? Wierwille's "spirituality" should be measured by the amount of money he conned us out of and by the number of young girls he took to the back of his motorcoach...which means he was about as "spiritual" as a porcelin doorknob.

Well...since you asked...Wierwille's goal of word over the world was lofty and ambitious to say the least... Actually, I would define it a little differently than Wierwille did...it wasn't word over the world...it was cult teachings over the world. Wierwille never had "the word" to begin with. His rendition of "Christianity" was a farce at best...wrong on over half of what he taught... With that said...Martindale decided that the goal of world over the world had been achieved...mainly because he knew that twi was spirally down the toilet like something brown. He was circling the wagons to make what he DID do seem to be "spiritually appropriate"...HA HA HA! For him to claim that the word had gone "over the world" was so unbelievably stupid, that it turned out to be a litmus test to see who had swallowed the koolaid and was now braindead. Instead of being acclaimed world wide as the man of Gawd, and advising world leaders...craiggers is now unloading trucks for $7.50 an hour, wondering why he sat the bench on his college football team. At least Jim Jones, Charles Manson and David Koresh are known on a large scale...the only folks who know who king okie is, are a relatively small handful of us who regret not pounding his head into the pavement.

Well....I plead guilty for starting this thread on this particular forum. My thinking was simply to see what people thought of twi's influence over people's political views... I will refrain from posting what I normally post on the "politics and tack" forum...but I would invite any and all to venture into THAT forum for a closer examination of the various opinions of the current administration... I will say this however...If George W. Bush is a "godly man", then there is no God...there is only a devil.

Telling someone they are possessed is, of course, a catch 22...there is no possible way to confirm or deny it...it's all mythology. You might as well tell someone that you had a vision of Thor the thunder god throwing his hammer through Asgard... In light of twi's teachings on what happens to "cop outs", I wonder what martindale thinks of his own spiritual condition these days.

Yes...I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW11. When you think about it, the lofty position of power and influence that Wierwille had was not far from being a nazi tyrant...He took great pride in his German ancestory...

Food for thought...A lot of folks may not realize it but the Greasespot Cafe requires a certain amount of money every month to maintain. Paw, very seldom, if ever, asks for donations. I think that there are probably a number of folks here who would help out financially if it were shoved in their face like a PBS fund raiser...but like I said, Pawtucket never asks... By the way, nobody asked me to post this...I did it on my own hook... Perhaps if Paw would post an address where donations could be sent?...or maybe it's already posted somewhere and I don't know about it? I mean, if everybody here chipped in about 10 or 20 bucks a YEAR...there would probably be enough left over for a party! Maybe if you gave a certain amount, you could become a "gold member", that would allow you to eat dinner at Paw's house whenever you showed up? ;)--> Just a suggestion...any comments?

A "closed system" such as twi, which controls it's followers with censorship, thought control, and mythology...is terrified of any free flow of information, uncensored and beyond their control...It's hard to play the role of "reality definer", when others are providing alternative ways of thinking in a public and free forum.

Twi's teachings on devil spirits is nothing new...It allows them to bypass people's logic systems and control them easier. When people deny their own reasoning abilities in favor of mythology, they fall prey to the purveyors of this mythology. There's no way to prove them wrong! Some twit leader simply states that "Gawd told me there was a homo spirit" (or whatever)...and everybody simply accepts it as true...Kinda makes the "believer" vulnerable to the guy who's privy to the "crystal ball"... In the middle ages, when folks were declared possessed, they would drill a hole into their skulls to allow the demons to escape...Twi's "spirituality" is akin to this type of thinking.

The unemployed angels of Judaism? ...Is that anything like the unemployed minister of Toledo?

C'mon now guys...we all know that a tree is nourished through the root...yeah right...every tree except the "waytree" that is. In twi, the leaves supplied the nourishment to the root...the money had a one way destination, from your hands into Vic's pocket... ...and of course, just giving him the money wasn't enough. He insisted that you kiss his royal foot at all times. ...better use a LOT of soap.