GrouchoMarxJr

Peaches and Buttons...WELCOME TO THE GREASESPOT! Glad you came aboard! ...When I was asked why I didn't tithe, I told them that I would, if they would show me a Levitical priest to bring my tithes to...they just stood there with their mouths wide open...didn't know what to say...

Any religious organization who tells parents not to have contact with their own children should have a flame thrower taken to the place...

Jeezy Peezy...I recognize many of those names...unbelievable that these folks are still drinking from the waters of despair...

In 1969 I attended Mohawk Valley Community college in Utica, NY...While I was there I joined Tau Omicron Pi fraternity...we were the "Toppers"... This wasn't your academic fraternity that had the blessings of the school administration...no, no...we were the bad boys who had an off campus fraternity house...if you have ever seen the movie "Animal House", then you know exactly what my college experience was like... Well...after not seeing any of these guys for over 30 years...I get a call from Scag, telling me about a reunion weekend coming up! I couldn't believe it...it was soooooooooooo good to hear from him...he gave me the phone numbers of Doc, Rosie, Rick, Tom, Tom, the Murphy brothers, and a few others whose nicknames would only be censored from this thread... It's like no time passed at all! I talked and talked for hours to all these different guys and my mind is reeling with nostalgia and friendships revisited. I am soooooo looking forward to this reunion, as are all the others. Were going to a mountain cabin for an extended weekend to fish, drink beer, cook food, and "other" things...I can't farkin' wait!!! ...and then it dawned on me...the friendships between all of us has been and still is, totally unconditional. No judgemental attitudes...no snobbish, egotistical, attitudes...nobody ever got marked and avoided in our fraternity. Nobody ever got put on spiritual probabtion, although many of us were placed on academic probation ;)-->...it was just such an honest and accepting group...after all these years...we are going to reunite for a fabulous weekend! Of course, I can't help but compare this to my twi experience...what a contrast! To think that a bunch of pot smoking, beer guzzling, "party dudes" could stay faithful to the friendship and bonds that we developed during that short period of time from 1969-1972...blows my mind. It underscores the difference between true friendships and the phoney, pretentious, conditional relationships that I experienced in twi. It also underscores the difference between a legalistic, religious organization and the free spirits of individuals who honestly connect with each other and stay unconditionally faithful to to something that many might consider to be "ungodly"...The bible says that God lives within us...I find it ironic that a so-called Christian ministry could be so void of these wonderful attachments (for me anyway), but yet an "Animal House" fraternity could invoke such godly feelings of fellowship and caring...so where does God live, and move, and have His being?...it's party time! :D-->

Oak...good observation... I suppose the "best" time to have left twi would have been 5 minutes into session 1 of pfal.

Linda...I just re-read my own post and then read yours...scheesh is right...I apologize for the "family corps idiots" remark... That's not the way I feel and I can't even explain why I made that crude remark... I guess I am so used to tossing insults at anything to do with twi that I typed without thinking...not a good thing to do... The folks I met in the family corps were fine people with good hearts...I could make insulting remarks about the program itself, even as I could about the regular corps program...but it looks like I've already said enough... ....sorry.

Mike...You are certainly entitled to believe what you choose to believe...I can see that you are very sincere about it, but then again, I'm sure that you remember what Vic Wierwille said about "sincerity"... It simply boils down to a matter of choice...you decide what to believe, so do the rest of us. What I don't understand is why you waste your time on this website soliciting arguments. Didn't your father in da werd teach you something about dust on your feet? Perhaps your efforts would be better served if you tried convincing people who have never heard about grifter Vic and his cornfield cult... Are you currently running a fellowship in your home?....or are you engaged in some sort of efforts to teach people what you believe?...or are you just an imposter who enjoys posting your pro pfal position on a website full of folks who were hurt very much by the false prophet wierwille and his insideous false teachings? That's kinda like trying to sell cocaine at a rehab clinic....

Tom Cruise...the pretty boy with that oh so ever charismatic smile...what is he about 4'7"... I think perhaps the Galactic emperor should have a few words with that boy.

When I was in the 10th corps at Emporia...they announced one morning after breakfast that I was to go to Rome city...I spent 4 months at that place...it was a beautiful facility...I found a place in the attic where I could hide and sleep all afternoon...loved it. :D--> ...The downside was that I had to put up with Bob Moneyhands and the rest of those "family corps" idiots...well, I ended up picking a lot of cherries and eating more food than I did at Emporia...

Oh yeah...I remember all those corps who had very little to do, except stick their noses in everybody else's business. I remember a certain "ordained clergyman" who told me to fire my nephew from my business because he didn't want anything to do with twi...( he was my best employee), and to hire this deadbeat wayfer (who was as useless as t*ts on a boarhog)...and not only that...but he also told me how much I should pay this deadbeat! Of course, I refused and informed him that he had NO IDEA what he was talking about, that he knew NOTHING about my business and that he was out of line for even making the suggestion...Needless to say, my name went immediately onto his .... list. This same "ordained clergyman" who washed windows for a living...(to suppliment the free money that twi was sending him)...approached a woman in my twig (who was broke and in need of money), and asked her if she would like to help him wash windows one day...she accepted, thinking that it would be an opprotunity to make a few bucks...at the end of the day, he WOULD NOT PAY HER! He informed her that her pay was that she got to spend time with him!!! Needless to say, I called this guy up and let him know what I thought of his scheme to get "believers" to work free while he got the money...I told him how this woman was broke and thought she was there to make money...I also told him to never do that again to anyone unless he's upfront about it...I told him that he was being dishonest and manipulating people...His conclusion was that I was possessed! Serving God's people??? Maybe it was the title of a cookbook.

I have three dogs...A Dalmation, a Black Lab, and a Chow...I love them as if they were my own children... Dogs are fantastic animals...they are unconditinally loyal, they are very smart, they are very emotional. I treat them with love and respect at all times...if I only had enough money to buy food for either them or me...I would go hungry. Thanks for posting the pic...and God bless that fireman.

Current waycorps...what a joke. Do they still number the corps? What would it be now, the 36th corps? How does twi explain what happened to the thousands of people who went through corps training and want nothing to do with them anymore? ...and since they reached their goal of word over the world already...why do they even need more corps? ...oh yeah, I almost forgot...Rozilla needs somebody to mow the grass at hdqrts.

Well, I don't see old Bob replying to any of this... S'matter Bob, nothing to say? I supose it easier for you to simply write off the Grease Spot Cafe as a bunch of "possessed" copouts who are spewing forth trash? Of course, when you do that, you can avoid having to deal with homest questions and honest confrontation. Isn't it funny how twi leaders are only confortable dealing with people that are inside their closed little system? Only after the indoctrination process is well under way and waybrain is dominating a persons thoughts, will people like moneyhands and others be willing to deal with confrontation...S'matter Bob...do you feel at a disadvantage having to deal with people who are not under your thumb? Who don't see things the same way that you do? Who are not intimidated by your big mouth and nasty attitude? People who you cannot "punish" by ostrasizing them? When many of the other old time twi leaders walked away...you continued to spit suck and compromise...is the money and prestige that good?

I agree that one of the components of waybrain is the arrogance of being right concerning biblical doctrine...even after we have denounced twi and moved on with our lives. This attitude has to be dragged out into the light of day, to be resolved. For years I thought that I was over it, until I was invited to a church (I went reluctantly)...I sat there with an attitude of "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about"...after church, I went home and thought about my attitude...I knew I was wrong for feeling that way, but a lot of the doctrine was imbedded in my mind...what to do? For me, I decided that it was time to consider those doctrinal issues that twi had pounded into my brain cells...I decided to question every damn thing they ever taught me...it was an internal process that took time. It was more attitude than it was actual doctrine...once I got passed the attitude problem, the doctrines seemed to unravel on their own. To this day, I don't think that twi was wrong about EVERYTHING they taught...but for me, if there is some biblical doctrine that twi was correct about...then I consider that the exception. For me, it's ok NOT TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS...I am more peaceful with myself when I simply shrug and say..."I have no idea", when another Christian asks my opinion about some specific doctrine. There was a time in my life when I felt the need to "step up" and "explain" things to people...I no longer feel this way. ...and the socialization process becomes more natural and easy to deal with, once the twi thinking is laid aside.

...And let's not forget Wierwille's own German heritage...and the great pride he consistantly demonstrated concerning his heritage...He often made references to th town where his ancesters came from and of the great German people...perhaps his nationalistic pride came into play when it cam to explaining the holocost? Who wants to believe that their own people could do such a thing? What chaps my foot is that Veepee lived through that era...he should have known better.

...So, to go back to the original point of this thread...Did they teach us to fight dirty? You betcha. By placing the "leader" up on a pedastel, you have, in effect, lowered yourself. You are at a definite disadvantage, because they are the leader and you're not...God was on their side...and they (twi "leaders"), learned to take advantage of this...they exploited people's weaknesses, bullied them, intimidated them, and worse... Twi's "leadership training" program was a breeding ground for this mentality...

...Sure, the underlying problems with twi had a LOT to do with ego...they always paid lipservice to "serving others" but in reality, it was just the opposite. A good example of that was the infamous "footwashers" fellowship, that consisted of the uppity ups...belonging to that "fellowship" became a very prestigious thing indeed...funny when you think about it. ...but that was the learned behavior...if you suddenly found yourself promoted to branch leader, people would be scurrying for favor with you, kissing your foot and waiting on you hand and foot...and that was just a branch leader...but the tendency was to create a micro version of what the top leaders were setting out as the example...and the cop out explanation for it was that you were showing "respect" for God, by showing "respect" for the "holy appointed one", perched upon his lofty position in the cult tree. If you accused one of them of being on an ego trip, you were sharply rebuked and quickly put in your place...and they actually BELIEVED they were right...they actually felt that they SHOULD be treated as some kind of "spiritual royalty". When everything washed out in the late 80's, there was a rude awakening for a lot of people. It was a time of confrontation...and of finally telling them...No, I'm through kissing your foot. Of course, the powerful emotion of having to be right came into play...and as many witnessed, LCM, in his own disturbed mind, felt that he was right and everybody else was wrong...thus the loyalty oath. In the final analysis, the egotistical mentality of twi leadership was destined to be that way...why? Because the founder excused Christ from his "ministry" and took his place as the mog...the rest was predictable.

just kiddin' -->

...Oh sure Linda...You're just trying to pick a fight!

Interesting and appropriate thread... I appreciate and admire Catcup's marriage arrangement and would encourage all exwayfers to consider her words. I was married in 1977 to a fellow WOW ambassador...I never knew her before twi and she never knew me before twi...We were married for 3 years (no children) and then divorced. During our 3 years together, we were WOW ambassadors, twig coordinators, in residence corps and then our marriage "dissolved" during our interim year in the corps...My point being...that our entire relationship was nothing more than "wayworld". Everything about our marriage was "embellished" by twi doctrine and influenced by it's leaders. We were held up as examples of a "good Christian marriage" to others and on the surface, all seemed fine... Looking back, I realize that our marriage was doomed for failure...We were both very different people with very different ideas and goals...the ONLY common ground we had was twi! She was constantly stiffled ans frustrated over this "submissive wife" doctrine and I was very uncomfortable with my role as "head of the house"...Working out our own individual arrangement never happened...we simply plugged ourselves into twi's version of how a marriage is "supposed" to be. We put all of our own aspirations, goals, personalities, and ideas "on hold" and proceeded forth with a mindless cult belief system that was repressive, destructive and WRONG. In our minds, we thought we were doing the right thing, but in our hearts, we were miserable and going against the grain of who we really were. To me, my marriage was just another twi program...first taking the classes, then going WOW, then into the corps and of course, my marriage...they were ALL twi programs to me. She never got to know the real me, nor did I get to know the real her. It was all contrived and on the surface...the charade finally ended when SHE finally took some courageous action...she left. She left me and the corps and twi. Looking back, I applaud her courage. So...when reading Catcup's posts concerning her marriage...I say good for both of them...for having the courage and frame of mind to stand up against some pretty heavy pressure from twi... I would encourage all couples, who are still living under the oppressive doctrines of twi, to re-evaluate their situations...to decide for themselves how their relationship should work...to allow for diversity within the relationship, in terms of belief systems and lifestyles.

"I think we gave him a major pain"... I would hope so...he's been giving everyone else a major pain, for some time, with his non-sense. After reading his posts (which I usually don't)...I am wondering if I am possessed by a masochist spirit for even reading them! Even in my deepest throes of "waybrain" (about 1978-79), I would have called bull.... on this character. He makes claims about pfal that would make Wierwille start spinning in his grave...Mike is not just a throwback from the days of doing the waybrain shuffle...he's the next step after that!...he's evolved into a bonafide nut case. His devotion to the "writings" of the plagiarizing grifter have become less of a joke than a serious concern for Mike's mental health. Mike...There's people who can help you. There's no reason to go through life being a delusional follower of the guy who "saw" snow on the gaspumps. Anything that Wierwille actually wrote himself (which was very little) was sophmoric at best and at worst...was a destructive doctrine that hurt hundreds and hundreds of people.

Good point smurf...Twi's teachings about "worldly" influences helped them to keep folks in the fold. The less you hear or read or think, from outside sources...the more likely you are to do the "waybrain shuffle". Instead of Walt Whitman and Miles Davis...we got Craig Martindale and the singing ladies of twi...Rather than go to a good movie with friends, we went door to door witnessing with people we didn't even like... This idea of a "closed society" that twi engenders, fuels groupthink mentality and keeps the rank and file in line... A tip to the innies who may be reading this...Anytime someone tells you that you should not be reading certain books, listening to certain music or entertaining thoughts that encompass a wide range of views...an alarm should be going off in your head telling you to "head for the hills as fast as you can"

I dunno...I think the fact that Wierwille chose lcm to replace him, speaks volumes. There were so many capable people who would have kept the trains running on time...Martindale was not one of them...and that was painfully obvious...it should have been painfully obvious to Wierwille BEFORE he chose him instead of afterwords...Wierwille got divine guidance?...yeah, and I'm the fifth Beatle.

Allright children, you are to turn in all blueprints for the "cloak of invisibility" that were inadvertantly handed out just before recess...this is very important.

justloafing..."...I ran back to my room at the hotel and threw up." Hardly a thing for an "optomist" to do... :D--> ...But yes, there is much crapola in the subconscious mind that sneaks out once in awhile...the biggest shocker for me was when I finally was talked into going to a church...this was years ago...(I've been out of twi for 18 years)...I actually thought that I was over waybrain until I heard this preacher start talking...immediately, my mind dismissed him as not knowing jacksquat about what he was talking about...I crossed my arms and copped an attitude!...Afterwords, I was shocked at my own thought processes...I confronted the entire issue of "biblical doctrine" in my mind and dealt with that issue...it took time...I'm no longer a know-it-all, in fact, quite often I feel foolish for believing many of the things that I believed for so long... I have simplified my faith within myself and no longer feel the need to be a "biblical scholar"... So...does "waybrain" ever really leave, in it's entirety? Probably not...But it does become extremely marginalized and unimportant...remember the old saying, "use it or lose it"? Well...as you denounce waybrain for what it is...and begin thinking about things differently...you do "lose it"...the memories of that perspective and that way of thinking remains...(until Alzheimers kicks in)...but that's ok, because it's what enables your bull.... meter to operate more efficiently. ;)-->