GrouchoMarxJr

Hammer...Thanks for the links... I think the evidence is clear...I can think of no reason why anyone should ever subject themselves to this ungodly trauma... I think it would be interesting to look into the financial records of these people...bet they're making a bundle of dough at the expense of people's mental health. I also recall quite vividly, that when I pledged a college fraternity...they verbally abused us, beat us with paddles, subjected us to sleep deprivation and a whole lot of other nasty things...the end result was that when it was all over...the abused pledges hugged their abusers and became very close to them... ...no thanks, I have enough problems without filling my head with the little green demons from Momentus.

Here's some information that might add to the "Momentus perspective" Momentus info interesting stuff Hmmm...for some reason, the link I provided doesn't seem to be working...try this if you're interested, it'a a quick read http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/recmombarton.htm

Reading Evan's posts on this subject, I realize that not everyone who takes Momentus ends up in a straight jacket... ...but can this "training" be considered Christian? I mean, we can all drop some acid and sing Jesus songs...that doesn't make doing LSD a Christian experience. I do agree that it's not healthy to hold on to bitterness when someone wrongs you. Embracing bitterness only hurts the person who is bitter...apologizing to folks that you have hurt is a good thing...forgiving those who hurt you is also a good thing...but the Momentus folks that I had contact with were fanatical about it and ,IMHO, had slipped off the deep end... ...and I have yet to see anyone address Garth's question of...if personal accountability is so important, why the hold harmless clause?

After disrespecting the living...why would we expect them to treat the dead any differently?

Oh yeah...I found it rather interesting when they all "ganged up on me"...trying to convince me that I should share all my "secret sins" with them...I figured that they got suckered into sharing THEIR secret sins during the Momentus training and now they were looking for someone stupid enough to follow their lead...No thanks...one cult experience was enough for me. All of you Christians out there...would Jesus make you sign a "hold harmless" clause before he started "training" you???

About 7 years ago, I was approached by some former twiers, all of them connected with CES...their mission was to recruit me into the next Momentus training...they lauded it to the sky..."better than pfal...greatest thing since sliced bread...life changing...you just GOTTA do it"...that's all I heard from these folks... Of course, my bull.... meter started redlining...so I went onto the internet and checked out everything I could find about Momentus...found out that it was an "offshoot" of LifeSpring which was an "offshoot" of the old EST training...had nothing to do with Christianity until the Momentus folks decided to paint a thin veneer of "bible words" on it and gave it a different name... In all honesty, I listened to the pros and the cons...weighed it all out and decided..."Are you kidding me?...no chance I'm gonna take that thing" I even attended the Momentus "public explanation" meeting...or whatever they called it...at the end of the meeting they asked if anyone had any questions...nobody did...until I started talking...I asked them about "LifeSpring", I asked them to explain the points made by the anti-Momentus folks from the internet...I was quickly "hushed up" and taken to a room alone. I guess they didn't want the other "newbies" to hear what I was saying... The interesting part of this whole process, was that the folks from CES who were trying to recruit me, were as sweet and kind to me as you can imagine...until I informed them that I was not interested in taking Momentus...then they showed their true colors...One woman screamed at me...yes, she screamed..."WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO HIDE?"...they became very hostile towards me...of course, that only reinforced my decision to not take Momentus. In fact, when I got home that night, I called JAL on the phone to let him know what I thought of Momentus and his connection to it...we "discussed" the matter for about an hour on the phone. Neither of us had changed our opinion by the end of the conversation... ...and all those CES/Momentus folks who were singing the praises of Momentus?...within a year of taking it...EVERY ONE of their lives were in shambles. One guy in particular...he insisted on confessing to his wife that he had had an affair with another woman 5 years earlier...he told me that because of the Momentus training, he knew that he had to "get honest" with her about this...shortly after his confession, his wife left him and took all the kids with her...his life went into the toilet. Let me see if I understand the Momentus way of thinking, from this example...The guy decided that to ease his own guilty conscience, he would burden his wife with this devasting information...that way, they would become closer because of the pure honesty of it all... ...I think maybe they should have thrown HIM out of the "lifeboat" first. "Your life will change over the period of a weekend if you take our training"...Sorry, life just doesn't work that way.

Well said, skyrider... ...it's all about control...I've always thought that when someone passes away, it's up to each individual to decide within themselves, whether attending the funeral would be appropriate or not...it's a matter of personal conscience, of showing respect, of doing the right thing... ...the fact that twiers are TOLD whether to attend or not, speaks loudly. Another example of what happens to a person when they are swept away by group think...and the irony of it all is that twi claims to teach people that they are "sons of God" with the ability to communicate directly with God in their own personal relationship! Yeah right...that's why the average twier doesn't have a thought they can call their own, nor are they "allowed" to come to their own conclusions and make their own decisions...what a way to live! "Power for abundant living"?...more like "Weakness for a defeated life"...pathetic.

OK...I'd be willing to take the job as long as I can have a jet, a motorcoach and a big ol' Harley... Oh yeah...I want the corp chalet too...sorry Donna, your eviction notice will be forthcoming...maybe Craig will take you back.

CES?...This is an organization that exists because the former twi leaders who started it, needed jobs...and many former twi followers needed an institution that would provide validation and reinforcement to their cult theology. Momentus...This is a crash course in "how to deal with guilt and feel better about my miserable life"...Like some form of sinister toilet training designed for the "spiritually co-dependant"...I guess some people can't get enough abuse.

So sorry for the lost lives...and for so many lives being totally turned upside down... My nephew in Houston told me yesterday, that you can't go anywhere without seeing Louisianna plates...every bar and every eating place is packed...commercial and residential properties being bought or rented at an unbelievable pace...and reports came in yesterday that even Columbus, Ohio is taking in hundreds of refugees from La... Looks like a tremendous response from almost everywhere...too bad it took so long for the federal government to respond...George Bush drops the ball again.

I believe that his name is Karl...but yes, I read the book and laughed throughout the entire thing...thought it was one of the funniest books I've ever read. A must read for all extwiers...

Yeah...you guys that are still on the fringe...walk away...simply walk away from it. Family still in? Walk away diplomatically ;)-->. How else can families be pulled out of the cluthes of this insideous cult? It would be nice to see entire families walk away, but that is not always the case...Sometimes it takes the first family member to walk away...and then comes a second and a third... Don't forget that when the Beatles were all spellbound by the Marinisha (or whoever), it was Ringo that called bull.... on the whole thing and went home alone...the others soon followed. Food for thought. ... ...But even if your other family members stay in twi...it's better for you to be out. Plain and simple...each individual makes their own choices.

Yeah...Sometime after I left twi, I began to realize that twi had interfered with my own personal spiritual life... ...My bull .... meter goes off whenever I see people trying to institutionalize God and become official spokesmen for Him... ...I think it's more of a personal journey...Things have to be kept in perspective and people with titles need to be kept in check...Nobody sticks their nose in my business in the name of God anymore...no thank you...don't need it, won't stand for it.

I thought that Evan put it very nicely...I've been out for 18 years now...and to this day, I see things "differently" than most folks...I can smell it coming from a mile away...and I have my experience in twi to thank for that...Once you've been conned by the cornfield preacher, shall we say, you gain a new perspective. But in reality, most of us "leaves on the tree" were sincere folks who thought we were doing the right thing...as far as the leadership of twi goes...where do we draw the line? I was an area coordinator once... ...does that count? I mean...there were some good folks who got near the top...but it wasn't about whether God was working in twi or not...God works in individuals...not non-profit organizations... ...This bogus idea that twi was something "spiritually special" was what fed the elitist, egomaniac, delusional, fever...that spread throughout and turned many into asskissing ladder climbers (or in this case, tree climbers)...with this attitude prevalent, what else could anyone expect? ...but as I said, I have twi to thank for understanding this process.

30 years and one month ago...I took piffle for the first time (July of 1975)... went wow in 1976... ...Would I do it all over again?...No.

If they did abs, they probably gave themselves a 20% raise in salary and then simply turned it back over... ...but like so many other things, the top "leadership" considered themselves exempt from having to do the things that the rest of us "grunts" had to do... ...another indication that they didn't even believe their own bull....?

I agree that you do not owe them an explanation...but if you feel compelled to explain to your "friends" in twi why you are leaving... 1- over half of what twi teaches is wrong 2- the "leadership" is steeped in a long history of corruption that continues to this day 3- there is a total lack of spiritual fruit, spiritual power and unconditional love in twi. One of the first things that I discovered when I left twi, was that the people whom I THOUGHT were my friends, were not really my friends at all.

In other words...Wierwille was a complete and shameless fraud. He not only stole BG's class, but he used his position as "the teacher" as a springboard into seducing young girls in the back of his motorcoach...he was a drunk and a liar... ...I get tired of hearing all the wierwille apologists continue to sing the praises of the cornfield preacher. Wierwille was to Christianity what Jeffrey Dahmer was to gourmet dining.

If you're still in... consider this: Remember those dreams you had of a professional career?...or of starting your own business, buying a home and raising a family? Remember how you wanted to plant roots in one place and build a life for yourself? How you wanted to get that college degree and establish yourself in the community?... Forget it...If you're still in twi...you have no future. They will manipulate you and use you...get you to sacrifice all your dreams and labor for their ungodly cause. You will miss out on the important things in your life because you have decided to believe false doctrines and give your allegience to people who do not care about you or your future... As long as you are involved with twi, your life is in limbo...nothing productive will happen for you...you will be fed more lies and you will continue to spin your wheels...your personal life will be in free fall, while the users and abusers you give your allegience to will be profiting off of your life...until you are all used up and then they will discard you... I'm making this up? Sorry...I speak the truth...been there, done that.

If they had enough money, maybe twi could buy a Superbowl commercial...have Rosie tear away a section of Donna's blouse (ala Janet Jackson)... The caption could read "Keeping you a breast of the prevailing word"...

Ironic, isn't it? The Grease Spot cafe probably gives twi more public exposure than any other source!...too bad for them, it mostly bad. ...and there they are, checking it out...gonna find out who's readin' and writin' these nasty little posts...Scheesh, if God is on their side, why are they worried about a bunch of reprobate posters? I mean, the creator of the heaven and earth is directing this organization and they're worried about a handful of Grease Spot miscontents? Reminds me of that verse in Acts (I think)...says something about "If God is behind this thing then our words will come to naught"...or something like that...C'mon Rosie, why are ya worried about a bunch of people who were either thrown out or quit? Now that you've accomplished the goal of word over the world...there must be millions of folks who stand with you, glorifying God for all the signs, miricles, and wonders that twi continually demonstrates... ...No, you say? Well, maybe you just need to renew your minds and believe bigger....yeah right. :D-->

...I mean, would he send it to a ministry that defrocked him and ran him off? Would he send it to a denomination that he has been so harsh towards? Certainly, Loy C. Martinfail must be sending his ABS to somebody! ...because he knows that if he doesn't send that money every week...he is in deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep doodoo. Anybody got any guesses?

Now that liverlips is finally taking home a paycheck...I was just wondering where he sends in his ABS...afterall, he wouldn't want God to not spit in his direction...

...I'll never forget my first roa, walking into the "restroom"...getting in looooooong lines to get into the stalls...and everybody singing..."stand up, stand up for Jeeeeeeesus..."

Linda is technically correct...be that as it may...I can STILL hear that damn song in my brain! maybe I just need another Rolling Rock...