T-Bone

thanks for the clarification. But I tend to think it's not any religion that promotes hypocrisy - rather people have a tendency to be hypocritical - going on the definition of hypocrisy I gave above "Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense". I think religions don't want you to pretend. but that's just my opinion

Tonto and I have been watching The Dropout on Hulu - 8 episodes The miniseries documents the disgraced biotechnology company Theranos and its founder Elizabeth Holmes…the storyline follows the smoke-and-mirrors “success” story Holmes sold everybody. She would string along investors, lab techs, doctors, board of directors and even bamboozled Walgreens to buy into her one-of-a-kind idea for a mobile blood-test machine – often misleading them to ignore cold hard facts, delays in demos, faking it, and even using another company’s technology and putting her name on a number of the patents along with the head chemist – even though Holmes herself didn’t do any of the work nor really understood how any of it worked…hhmmmmmm all that fraud and plagiarism sounds kinda familiar

Maybe it’s just me but your opening question seems to assume a certain motive. It might be better as a survey question to determine if wanting to be with the Lord is the primary motive for living a life the Bible requires – and then have folks elaborate on their answer. So speaking just for myself I’ll explain why I chose the Christian life – and for brevity's sake I’ll say that for me the life that the Bible requires a Christian to lead is to love God and love my neighbor as myself, further simplified as the golden rule “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” Matthew 7:12 Without getting too detailed on all the factors in my life on why I have believed in God ever since I was a child and why at some 68 years now I continue to follow the Christian lifestyle – I will say this: I’ve never been hung up on wanting to know if I’m saved nor do I walk around thinking I’m already saved, nor do I feel a desire to be with the Lord is what has kept me on my path…it took several years of being out of TWI to get honest and become self-aware enough to admit I am a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies. I believe the success of my recovery process depends on my relationship with Jesus Christ...I don’t really have a long-term goal of being with the Lord sometime way in the future of eternity – I’m more concerned about how to deepen a relationship with Him RIGHT NOW. Many philosophers and psychologists have spent a great deal of time trying to understand the nature of evil and have also observed how evil corrupts people and societies. And looking at all the evil that goes on in the world many of them also try to address how to overcome that evil. Another word for overcoming that evil is “salvation” – but that word is used almost exclusively in a religious sense. Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr (1892–1971) was an American Reformed theologian, ethicist, commentator on politics and public affairs, and professor at Union Theological Seminary for more than 30 years. Niebuhr was one of America's leading public intellectuals for several decades of the 20th century and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1964. He once wrote that the original sin is “the only empirically verifiable doctrine of the Christian faith”. In other words, sin...evil has been around for a long, long time and most people will acknowledge that. To sum it up – I choose to live the Christian life as a means of overcoming the evil in my life and of that around me – that is my salvation in the here and now – I don’t know what that means in eternity – I don’t think that far ahead – If I die and find out there is no God or I simply cease to exist…well big deal - I do find some satisfaction right now in the fact that I do NOT seek to hurt others and that I try to help others overcome these present evils . It just feels good to do good. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding Philippians 2:12,13 but that is what I think it is talking about (working on your salvation right now) : 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. and by the way - don't try to pin me down on what salvation means...cuz I don't know ...all that stuff about eternity, rewards, who is going where, what am I going to do for work up there ... or down there ...is way over my head Wasn’t sure about this thread until you said who it’s addressed to. Also, I would like some clarification on your second statement: “I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.” “ Are you saying the Bible promotes hypocrisy? Also, in your “last minute scenario” – are you thinking of insincere repentance? Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. Is it possible that even a hypocrite could genuinely repent on his or her deathbed? And on the other hand, can someone who lived a criminal life have a GENUINE change of heart just before they die? The title of your thread alludes to the criminals who were crucified along with Jesus in Luke 23 39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” It seems apparent the repentant criminal of Luke 23 was described NOT as a religious hypocrite but rather as a repeat offender – a lawbreaker. So, no hypocrisy there…he probably lived his life the way he wanted to – he even admitted as much by saying he got what he deserved. He also must have been somewhat familiar with Jesus’ life and ministry to say he knew he had done nothing wrong, and even believed Jesus would come into his kingdom. I don’t see what the problem is with this passage. To me it reflects some age-old truth "There are no atheists in foxholes" an aphorism used to suggest that times of extreme stress or fear can prompt belief in a higher power. In the context of actual warfare, such a sudden change in belief has been called a foxhole conversion.” From Wikipedia – there are no atheists in foxholes Is there a problem with someone being prompted to believe in a higher power during a time of great stress or fear? And as far as timing goes - God had something prearranged long before I was born – and yet it covers the entire time I will be on this earth: But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 Yeah I AM a sinner – and I’ve read that Jesus hung out with sinners...hello my name is T-Bone and I'm a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies.

zzzzZZZZzzz…yup - count me in

Ha – thanks for the correction, Rocky – can’t believe I flubbed those words by adding “ness”…now I feel really subconscious. Thanks for that too. Great reminder on interpreting synchronistic events being subjective…and that’s always a challenge for me…maybe that comes from my self-confidence being whittled away – both before and during my TWI experience…and the more I think about it – in TWI I developed a false sense of confidence – but that’s a whole other topic…this may sound odd – but one of the reasons I come to Grease Spot is not really to validate my own opinions or beliefs – but to affirm it’s normal to feel uncertainty about a lot of things...the longer I live, the more confident I become that there's a lot I don't know.

Cool story, Waysider! that got me thinking uh oh of one of the first mass exoduses sometime after Chris G read the passing of the patriarch… Probably off-topic but I thought this might be synchronicity in the rearview mirror…reevaluating simultaneous events of the past...they say hindsight is 20/20. I feel as I continue to reflect on my experiences and observations from 12 years in TWI, that I’m getting a clearer understanding of it all. for me, I think there was some kind of a delayed reaction – instead of it being an immediate awareness of a significant connection with the patriarch doc and the mass exodus. This time period upended my belief system…and maybe the significant connection was simply the patriarch doc was the tipping point for a lot of other things that had been building up in the minds of a lot of folks...maybe there was something that irked our collective unconsciousness - mentioned in Rocky's first post on this thread. It is interesting to think about – that some folks for whatever reason were more responsive to the collective unconsciousness…instinctive idealism? Or something…feelings of betrayal…betrayed by an organization that we thought we could trust? instead of solidarity in TWI – a schism develops…TWI tightened up the ranks by the us-versus-them mentality…TWI-followers versus the outside world…now there’s division within. Can the collective unconsciousness ever be at war with the collective consciousness (like group-think) ? ...just thinking out loud. For me, stuff that the ministry considered low priority or not worthy of my attention I had put into this crock of $hit – this time frame seemed to turn up the heat on a stewpot I had left on the back burner of my mind. …stuff like all those red flags issued from my logic, common sense, emotions, moral compass, bad experiences, questioning policies, and disappointments that I had accumulated in 12 years of involvement …stuff I had repressed…stuff I was told to “renew my mind to” …stuff I had forgot about…now was becoming a cauldron of pent-up anger, sadness, doubt, frustration, old wounds… and open wounds. 1986 to ’87 was roughly about a year of learning to recognize my belief system was much more than just warm and fuzzy select Scriptures, parroting the ministry’s pious platitudes and regurgitating PFAL principles. At some point in my slow exit from TWI, I started to realize all that bad stuff was part of my belief system too. In other words, wrong ideas, bad attitudes, misconceptions, bad experiences, etc. are also part of the basis for my outlook on life. And I felt that unless I properly addressed that stuff, that crock of $hit would continue to simmer indefinitely – and who knows what the consequences would be down the road. Okay maybe this was more of my nonsense…I thought it might have something to do with synchronicity in the rearview mirror – if there is such a thing …reevaluating certain events surrounding something of the past...with a different frame of mind than when I was actually experiencing them at the time. Night all !

But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means. According to my ex-TWI-secret decoder ring it means praise and worship are subtly redirected to "The Teacher". I should have mentioned I was NOT knocking the tunes – Rod’s or TWI’s…and I know what you mean about getting an earbug – I actually liked TWI’s Family Music Video – the tune that is. Uh oh another off-topic moment coming on Speaking of earbugs – one day in 1974 my clock radio woke me up to The Lord’s Prayer by Sister Janet Mead (she passed away Jan. 2022 at age 84) – holy psychedelic rock, Guitar Man (aka OldSkool) ! The song stuck with me for days ! I still love this song – got it on my iPhone on an inspirational playlist I made titled Need A Lift? – anyway…here’s a blast from the past: if you watch this on You Tube - read all the comments under it - she donated all royalties from this song to charities. I am also wondering if the assistant way corps coordinator would have had a problem with the lyrics of The Lord's Prayer.

OldSkool & Waysider thanks for your thoughtful posts! OldSkool, I’ve always got into doing arrangements too. Before TWI, besides originals I’d get into adapting a composition with different instruments or time signatures. For instance, I orchestrated Had to Cry Today by Blind Faith into a peppy Jazzy instrumental featuring the flute. It sounded so different from the original - folks would often compliment the band on our creativity - but I'd always fess up and tell them it's my arrangement of Had To Cry Today. It hits home what you said about it being hard enough for an artist to share what they make. Besides criticism – I think there also can be the temptation to cater to fan’s expectations – instead of trying out something new that is very different from what you did before…instead of being creative one stays repetitive and sticks to proven formulas… ~ ~ ~ ~ hey, to end on a high note I still goof around on the bass and compose too – fun little hobby, that keeps me amused and out of trouble. I have a Behringer 8 channel mixer . I plug my bass into one input and earphone cable my iPhone music into another input – with headphones I can mix the two just right so I can play along with my favorite tunes or figure out the bass line to a song I want to learn. I also have a Korg D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio which allows me to record multiple tracks – so I can add keyboards, “drums” and other instruments with my nifty cheapo Casio CTK-431 electronic keyboard…I work those keys just like I do on a typewriter – I hunt-and-peck. Waysider, maybe you’re the lyricist I never had. Thinking of just a few of the many songwriter collaborations I’ve admired (Burt Bacharach/Hal David, Lennon & McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin, Jack Bruce/Pete Brown) my interest is often irresistibly drawn to deconstructing how the song was made – what came first the chicken or the egg? On really good songs – the mesh of music and lyrics seems seamless to me…I’m happy just making melodies, rhythms, and moods – maybe I’m not so much a frustrated poet but in need of an articulate collaborator. I really appreciate your openness and honesty – when you said you found other outlets to express yourself, I think Grease Spot is one of them – and I really admire your work. You communicate ideas and feelings so succinctly – it gives me a standard to shoot for…someday to the relief of others I might get there ...seriously though I find Grease Spot is great for me to learn how to better express myself too. Not that I want to write the perfect lyrics to a tune – but just get better at what I want to say when exchanging ideas. Okay – back to the main topic Holy crap! I listened to Rod Stewart’s tune and then relistened to TWI’s family video – and you’re right VERY SIMILAR in riffs, tempo, phrasing…and now it’s driving me crazy – the tune is starting to remind me of another song – just can’t place it – not a genre I’m familiar with – maybe 80’s British group – I asked Tonto to give a listen and she said it had an 80’s British vibe. I watched it again on You Tube and noticed the comment section is turned off…don’t know if there’s anything to that – but I’m always leery of movies that are not released for early viewing for movie critics. Do the producers have little confidence in the film? In an film product placement is important – and I noticed several times you get a clear shot of the PFAL books on a shelf in the background…the only thing missing was a picture of wierwille on the wall…hmmmm…makes me think of a British tune – Daddy Wasn’t There…listen to this tune about the 2:38 mark Austin refers to deadbeat dads – yeah “our father in da verd” might fit that description – deadbeat dad – a father who neglects his parental responsibilities to the extent of evading, even court-ordered child support obligations or custody arrangements…anyway enjoy this video:

okay here’s a tune that was released the year we left TWI. It’s called Back in the High Life Again by Steve Winwood… My wife and I adopted it as our theme song of freedom and recovery…it’s a sweet and light song – and you know how it is when you’re going through something, and it coincides with a new song you hear – and it’s not like every word in the lyrics meshes with your experience – but a line or two really resonates with what you’re feeling. Here's a few lines that really connected with us: I'll be back in the high life again All the doors I closed one time Will open up again The song reflects on the past…it’s nostalgic but also hopeful of recapturing that happiness and enjoying each other instead of seeking fulfilment and purpose in TWI… “high life” usually means an extravagant social life as enjoyed by the wealthy… leaving the TWI’s exclusivity and financial exploitation has the promise of getting back into a normal social life – to reconnect with old friends/family and having the freedom to make new friends of our choosing. And any doors we closed because we felt pressured to do so whether it was about a career, college, hobbies, goals we forgot about…whatever – we now have the freedom to open again…not forking over so much of our money, time, efforts and resources to TWI would indeed be a huge improvement of our financial situation…we actually bought our first house a year later…the loan officer for our mortgage couldn’t believe we never had a credit card. Had to have my parents cosign the loan. …anyway enjoy the tune:

thanks Rocky eat my decibels, assistant way corps coordinator !!!!

Yeah, I can relate to your points, Waysider…musically, I was fairly active with the ministry before I went into the corps. We had a band that played at coffee houses, dances, branch, and limb functions; played original stuff, ministry tunes but also covered some “worldly” popular tunes so believers had something familiar to dance to. When I went into the corps after a certain amount of time, they let musicians bring in their instruments. I’ve told this story before – and I ought to write a song about it sometime and call it “The Way Corps Killed My Muse” …anyway us 1st year in residence corps put a band together – and a few of us wanted to play some of our own originals. lyrics-wise, stuff that I wrote was usually regurgitated PFAL drivel – but music-wise I thought my tunes had an interesting mix of funk, psychedelic rock and R&B…My muse was kinda sidetracked to create tunes that had TWI-appeal – and to be honest, I considered the lyrics secondary anyway – I usually aimed to compose something musically interesting. Throwing words together is still a challenge for me. …anyway… the assistant corps coordinator wanted us to submit copies of the lyrics for any original tunes that we wanted to play…now here comes the “good part”. He comes back to us during one of our practices. And he okays his, his, and his original tunes – mentioning only one little recommendation here and there. Then he gets to mine and launches a full-blown extended play critique in front of the whole band…he’d read a line and say “why did you put it that way?” I think it would be more right on with The Word if you said… blah, blah, blah” by the time he got through the second verse his voice was just a drone in the background – I mean geesh – I didn’t think you could get anymore PFAL-pungent than my songs…but this guy outdid me by a mile! I was melting with embarrassment. I tuned him out and never wrote another song for TWI. I should have cranked my bass amp up to 11 and pounded out the bass line to Another One Bites the Dust to rain holy terror on his poor defenseless ears… that’s the day my muse bit the dust. TWI’s agenda tended to subjugate anyone’s creativity and originality…Every once and awhile I think of the road not taken…but I have no regrets…don’t think I’d like being a traveling musician – even before I joined TWI, I thought about that…I’m a boring homebody – if anything I’d probably would have been happy being a studio bassist. 9 to 5 and get home in time to watch The Muppet Show. Uhm… getting back to your thoughts…I agree with you on the really early bands having their own solid sound…before the ministry’s great-cheesy-homogenizer became self-aware…ooooooh shades of Skynet…cue The Terminator music.

Welcome to Grease Spot Café, Cheri ! Thanks for sharing…your post is open and honest…I think I might relate to what you said about it getting lonely not having people that are like minded around…but I will also add that since I left in ’86, I’ve experienced some intersocial "adjustments". Without the mental/emotional/busy involvement strain and drain of TWI, I’ve been able to devote much overdue attention to my wife and kids…family life is sweet - it's a shame it was given a low priority in TWI. …since I’ve joined Grease Spot in 2006 I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find some “kindred spirits”...a lot of friendly folks…some compatible with my take on TWI and even those who disagree are cool with the fact that we can’t be like-minded on everything…I think you might find there’s a lot more genuine love, sympathy and empathy in this little corner of cyberspace than in all of past or present TWI…In my humble opinion, it seems Grease Spotters are like-minded on at least one of the most important aspects/benefits of leaving a harmful and controlling cult – freedom to think and choose your own path. I wish you the best on your journey and look forward to other stuff you might choose to share with us.

I’ve probably overstepped some standards in this forum with my silly musings. I don’t mean to sound like I’ve figured anything out …but discussions about trying to find meaning always fascinates me – I’m always tempted to chime in. my criteria for finding meaning is more in a state of flux than when I had a TWI-mindset…and I’m the super-cautious type now – so I lean more on hindsight, and use different criteria to reflect on things of the past… for me, synchronicity in real time - the meaningful coincidence that leads to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle still seems somewhat elusive… I sometimes think this could be just a big waste of time if there is no higher power…I think I’m always in search of the metaphysical underpinnings of the cosmos - guess I think big ...anyway, in my belief system – at its most basic level – and I could be wrong on this – but I assume we live in a moral universe. The following def. approximates it: “ A moral universe implies that we live in a basically spiritual universe that is somehow ordered by a higher power, by invisible feelings of good and bad, a 'cosmic order' reminiscent of the early Greeks that underpins and motivates our actions. Or a 'moral force' that means our actions must have definite effects which we carry with us. In this respect its meaning comes close to the Hindu concept of Karma.” From: Wikipedia - moral universe Bolen said synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. What exactly is the divine game plan? That’s what I want to know. I would like to be a team player – for the good guys! One instance that exemplifies how challenging this topic is for me – and it’s kind of a complicated-twofold-hindsight-versus-synchronicity thing – it’s the Jonestown massacre of 1978. At that time, I was really involved with TWI – and I accepted wierwille’s spin on it – his Sunday Night Teaching tape “The current psychological hoax – inducing men to fear”. If I correctly remember wierwille’s conspiracy theory - it was something along the lines of a military or political black ops that staged the mass murder/suicide to make it look like Jim Jones led the people astray…yeah and in 1978 I bought into wierwille’s switcheroo – his message was beware of the government INSTEAD OF cult-leaders like Jim Jones and BY WAY OF EXTENSION ALL religious leaders who are not mainstream religions – LIKE wierwille…in other words, you must trust wierwille…must trust wierwille…trust wierwille (said as if in a deep hypnotic state ). Recalling that time in my CURRENT frame of mind changes the significance of the Jonestown massacre…This is one of those if-I knew-then-what-I-know-now-things…what is worthy of attention…what is so revealing in the Jonestown massacre and TWI’s spin on it, is how cult-leaders like wierwille usually try to obscure the underlying connecting principle of really tragic and devastating consequences that can happen in cults. Fundamentally it all goes back to the harmful and controlling cult-leaders…so reevaluating my old mindset of the Jonestown massacre brings forth new significance…new meaning…a new way to evaluate religions – rather than holding to a certain wooden…dogmatic ideology, theories and speculations as a litmus test for orthodoxy – I think I should look more into what morally underpins and motivates a person’s actions. Feel free to correct me on anything…I’m still trying to figure stuff out…I don’t take it personal – this is just more of my silly musings. Have a good night all

what's pretty amazing is that the drummer got that one single pillow to sound like an entire drum kit!

Welcome to Grease Spot Café, caribbean88 ! I completely understand your reluctance to hear from anyone recommending you turn to the Bible or pray. So I’ll just tell you some things that helped me and you can do what you want with the info. In my opinion, a difference between your experience and mine is the difference between being a kid raised in TWI (you) and being a parent raising a kid in TWI (me). Because The Way International’s dogma held such a high priority in most followers’ minds, I tend to think in some ways there was a weird convergence…or perhaps an overshadowing influence that resulted in parents interacting with their kids as a reflection of how the parents interacted with TWI-leadership. Metaphorically, TWI was like overbearing parents. Parents were expected to toe the line (accept the authority, policies, principles of TWI) and were also expected to raise their kids in that same authoritarian manner…One of the ways TWI’s authority was enforced – or rather we were pressured to submit to it - was by their use of fear and intimidation ... we feared TWI-leadership! we followed the rules...no one wanted to be publicly shamed...berated...told that they failed God...told we're sitting ducks for "the Adversary" to tear us apart...doomed to oblivion. As a former follower of TWI, I believe an alarming aspect of our fascination with demonology is the amount of control it affords cult-leaders. They elevate consequences for disobedience to the most frightening level. TWI-leadership used the fear of devil spirits, fear of getting possessed and fear of the power and influence exercised by those supposedly “born of the seed of the serpent” the way some parents use the boogeyman to frighten their kids into parental-approved behavior. To not follow TWI-guidelines or even worse to recklessly oppose TWI-leadership is to risk punishment from Satan’s minions. For brevity’s sake here, sometime you might want to check out a post I made in > Undertow - Escaping from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International that gets into the similarities of a harmful and controlling cult and authoritarian parenting and I also reference an article on why authoritarians (like TWI) love religion. While I’m on the topic of TWI’s fascination with demonology, I want to briefly mention one more post I made - you can look at it some other time at your convenience … …this post was a culmination of looking at other perspectives on demonology from non-TWI sources…Christian and secular…so not just biblical but also some psychological aspects - it’s on a thread in doctrinal VPW Loaded with demons, LCM Angry at Gay believer anonymously requested prayer and don’t let the thread title scare you - I think the person who titled that thread still had some of that TWI-preoccupation with Satan and demons…the information I related in that post actually put my mind at ease…and I’ve come to the opinion that top TWI-leadership was not necessarily possessed but more like demonically oppressed and influenced than they or us followers would care to admit (again if you read my post in the VPW Loaded with demons thread you'll understand the nuance of being tempted, oppressed or influenced by demons versus being possessed). …never mind being afraid of being harmed by demons if you disobey TWI-leadership…I had discovered the real enemy…and it was certain TWI-leadership…figuratively I know we all have our “inner demons” – personal inner struggles – and I’m not playing the prophet or saying I got revelation on who is possessed or demonized…I’m just saying that we as little old believers in TWI got hoodwinked by wierwille and company – and they had no business leading others when they were so screwed up! And again to be clear - I'm not suggesting any top leadership was out and out possessed. But their words and actions in public and private leads me to believe many were seriously tempted, influenced and oppressed by demons...and we all let them lead us...let them influence us... and we were warned Matthew 7 Matthew 23 II Peter 2 okay, no more Scripture I suggest you work out what YOU need to think about and do for your own good first – at least to the point where you can make more sense of what happened to you – before you seriously try reaching out to those still in TWI. About 10 years after I left TWI, I found a cool book Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns - that gets into cognitive therapy – it coincided with me starting to see a psychiatrist. I had some personal issues before I joined TWI…and they didn’t mix too well with the TWI-mindset and lifestyle. I occasionally review the book – lots of good ideas and strategies to combat the cognitive dissonance that permeates the TWI-mindset. Feel free to private message me if you want to talk about anything further.

I enjoyed that class…explaining the function of grammar was a big help…I remember when she taught about the word “but” it means “but in contrast” …then mentioned at a meal someone saying “please pass the but-in-contrastor”…I’ve always been a fan of puns!

Or you could hope for some help from a kid in another town - provided his mommy can drop him off in time…not that I’m an advocate of that - but that was used as a successful defense strategy in court…not that I agree with the verdict either…just thinking about unintentional consequences.

True…you can bury the gold and the bodies.

I wonder if “confiscation” is the correct word to use. Here’s several definitions of confiscate I found on the internet: take or seize (someone's property) with authority; take (a possession, especially land) as a penalty and give it to the public treasury; to seize without compensation as forfeited to the public treasury — compare criminal forfeiture. According to Wikipedia – people were somewhat “compensated” (though compensate is probably not the correct word to use either – since “compensate” means to make an appropriate and usually counterbalancing payment to...how about they were given something for their gold...anyway here's the excerpt from Wikipedia) : Executive Order 6102 required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $413 in 2020) per troy ounce. Under the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, as amended by the recently passed Emergency Banking Act of March 9, 1933, a violation of the order was punishable by fine up to $10,000 (equivalent to $200,000 in 2020), up to ten years in prison, or both. The order specifically exempted "customary use in industry, profession or art," a provision that covered artists, jewelers, dentists, signmakers, etcetera. The order also permitted any person to own up to $100 in gold coins, a face value equivalent to 5 troy ounces (160 g) of gold valued at approximately $10,000 in 2020. The same paragraph also exempted "gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins", which protected recognized gold coin collections from legal seizure and likely melting. The price of gold from the Treasury for international transactions was then raised by the Gold Reserve Act to $35 an ounce (equivalent to $700 in 2020). The resulting profit that the government realized funded the Exchange Stabilization Fund, established by the 1934 Gold Reserve Act. From: Executive Order 6102 Other websites of interest: Ampex – price of gold today Historical gold prices 30 BC to today The Relationship Between Gold and the US Dollar

Excellent point, WordWolf! And that got me thinking - regardless of their true intentions, the fact that they ALREADY formed a NEW group leads me to believe they were NOT in harmony with their own claims of wanting to fix and heal TWI from WITHIN. And the fact that THEY CHOSE the name of their new group to be Revival and Restoration makes me think it was a marketing ploy - like slapping a label “new and improved “ on the same old product just because you changed one thing (like who’s in charge or where the money goes ) - and a less discriminating “shopper” will probably fall for it. What’s worse than being a cult? Being a cult-wannabe. The group’s name belies their publicly stated claims: Revival - an improvement in the condition or strength of something that ALREADY exists…TWI. Restoration - the action of returning something to a former owner, place, or condition…let’s see…returning TWI to the former owner - nope, he be daid…returning to a former place - nope, they left headquarters…returning TWI to a former condition - you mean being a “thriving”, “robust” harmful and controlling cult like in the good old days?

Rocky, that makes more sense - I think you're right - although in my defense my idea of mastering was to know about something inside and out - emphasizing more of an awareness of synchronicity and if you reread my post you’ll find that is so - cuz I stressed the sovereignty of God and how there is much that is beyond our control- but thanks for the feedback...one of these days I'll get the idea

I have to be honest - I’ve been struggling with this synchronicity topic – after reviewing Bolen’s book and a couple of other books on Taoism I have on Kindle – and a deep -study of the Greek word Logos – I just wanted to add my 2 cents on some things. Now don’t get me wrong – I really really really enjoy checking this stuff out – but some of these ideas are so tantalizing in that I get the concepts – and I do like the concepts - but to actually know I’m experiencing it seems unobtainable sometimes – not sure if I’m expressing myself clearly enough…I think since I left TWI I’ve been kinda “gun-shy” on stuff that I consider spiritual… metaphysical…gun-shy…I mean just being hesitant or wary of stuff like that after being disappointed so often in TWI…I feel like a spiritual dullard most of the time…not that sensitive…not as observant or aware of intangibles as I should be…so I tend to make up for it by being super-analytical of what’s right in front of me – like a book - stuff I can see. In TWI I had the Gnostic-tendency to strive for being book-smart (trying to master “The Word” and PFAL books) which was mostly a theoretical understanding of select Scriptures, some facts, half-truths, half-baked lies, distorted facts, legends of a cult-leader, fabrications, myths, speculative ideas and spiritual-sounding-nonsense…you know, spinning-your-wheels-type-of- stuff… I think “mastering” synchronicity - if there is such a thing - might be somewhat like street-smart - referring to EXPERIENTIAL knowledge on things…PRACTICAL knowledge! Something useful! Some key points I got from Bolen’s book, Taoism and deep-study of Logos: Tao in Chinese philosophy is the absolute principle underlying the universe, combining within itself the principles of yin and yang and signifying the way, or code of behavior, that is in harmony with the natural order. The interpretation of Tao in the Tao-te-Ching developed into the philosophical religion of Taoism…That makes me think of the Logos in John 1:1 which combined powerful concepts of the ancient world. The Jews were entirely familiar with the all-powerful word of God…” And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.” Genesis 1:3 The Greeks were familiar with the thought of reason. They looked at this world; They saw a magnificent and dependable order. Night and day came with unfailing regularity; the year kept its seasons in unvarying order; the stars and planets moved in their unaltering path; nature had unvarying laws. What produced this order? The Greeks answered unhesitatingly, the Logos, the mind of God, is responsible for the majestic order of the world…what fascinates me about Tao and the Greek concept of Logos is that it sounds to me like they both might be referencing something similar though they are cultures and worlds apart. Bolen’s book says of synchronicity and Tao: the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection. Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. Synchronistic experiences leave us with a curious sense that we should pay attention… What is known intuitively, through experience of the Tao, is that we are not lonely, isolated, insignificant, and meaningless creatures, accidentally evolved from organic rubbish on a miniscule dot in the vast cosmos. Instead, the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe, through that which underlies everything and which some call God. Synchronistic events are glimpses into this underlying oneness, which is the meaning conveyed through an uncanny coincidence. The unseen linkage moves us; the synchronistic event tells us we are not alone……An uncanny, meaningful coincidence seems to lead to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle, as synchronistic events evoke an intuitively felt spiritual reality. Conversely, becoming spiritually centered, in touch with the Tao, is associated with the occurrence of positive synchronistic events. Being in touch with the Tao seems to prompt an easy flow of outer events through synchronicity. This is the message of religious teachings in both East and West: Seek spiritual values first; whatever is tangibly needed will follow after. ~ ~ ~ ~ Jumping around on ideas… Another thing that is humbling to think about: the subtle difference between Tao/The Logos/synchronicity, and the TWI-mindset regarding magical-thinking. With the former YOU are NOT in control – but in the latter (the TWI-mindset) you ASSUME YOU ARE in control…For me the TWI-mindset was usually self-centered but as Bolen put it: Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. …In TWI I had this weird idea that life was governed by MY believing and I strived to be very specific with pinpoint accuracy in my prayers and goal-setting – I probably missed a lot of golden opportunities and alternate solutions to my problems…In general I could not see the forest for the trees - meaning I was usually more focused on the individual trees/obstacles/challenges right in front of me rather than an overview of the whole forest…where I might catch a glimpse of other options in play or alternate avenues to pursue what I wanted. Is there such a thing as the Tao of Prayer? In TWI, I used to have this vague notion that speaking in tongues would take care of everything. But things never worked out that way – leaving me frustrated and disappointed…even after leaving TWI and being more occupied with MINDFUL PRAYERS (prayer in my understanding) – I still needed to lighten up on my concern of EXACTLY HOW God SHOULD help – and instead just be thankful He said we should ask for His help…it was probably the cumulative effect of reading/hearing lots of non-TWI teachings on prayer that one idea finally sunk in…When we pray, God DOES HEAR our prayers – and He ANSWERS our prayers in a time and manner as He sees fit and maybe not always in a way or time we expect…maybe there’s a synchronicity in prayer that I should be more aware of. Now here’s the TWI-egotistical-spin on things. If synchronicity is the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection, then you can bet there’s probably some gung-ho TWI-follower saying “yeah that happened because of MY believing” or “that didn’t happen because of YOUR lack of believing.” That kind of thinking basically upended the prospect of God working things out in accordance with His sovereign will and kept us locked in to a feedback loop – where our self-centered outlook was used as input to determine a self-serving agenda…Self-serving bias is a way of thinking that tends to make a person see themselves in an overly favorable manner in order to maintain a high self-esteem. I saw a tendency in TWI-followers – and perhaps we all did it to some degree – inflate the ego - we might not have achieved much by way of principles of PFAL – but in order to promote PFAL or to just be accepted in TWI-culture, we’d magnify…enhance…embellish any accomplishments feeling an increased sense of confidence, superiority, and general arrogance in how we are successful PFAL grads. One common definition of magical thinking is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them… ...Magical thinking has also been referred to as the omnipotence of thoughts: “The omnipotence of thoughts, a mechanism particularly favored by obsessive-compulsives…is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and therefore that wishing alone can effect changes in one’s environment independently of any realistic or practical action. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage of cultural history, human beings ascribed omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transferred it to a deity and yet retained the idea that they could influence the god, through prayer and ritual, according to their wishes” From Dictionary of Pastoral Care and Counseling Is magical thinking a form of plagiarizing synchronicity? Representing the outworking of synchronicity as one’s own achievement...just goofing around here...wanted to see if you're still with me. ....who's that in the back? I can hear you snoring zzzzZZZZ ZZZzzz To reiterate what I said earlier – I think it takes humility…patience…courage to admit there is so much that’s beyond our control…and to raise what we value to a higher level – and translate that into action – values like hope, harmony, truth, love, etc. The elitism…the snobbery of the TWI-mindset was another isolating thing. Typically, we were expected to check with upper leadership before we made any major decisions. To consult with anyone outside of TWI was a no-no. It didn’t matter if it was a friend, family member, professional, someone with expertise who might be able to address your problem – if they were not involved in TWI then their help was considered second-best…not necessary…this goes counter to the experience of the Tao…we are not lonely, isolated, insignificant, and meaningless creatures, accidentally evolved from organic rubbish on a miniscule dot in the vast cosmos. Instead, the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe. I’ve probably learned more about the important things of life from folks outside of TWI and that includes folks who’ve left TWI and escaped the TWI-mental-straightjacket – which includes Grease Spotters, regardless of their current belief system…matter of fact – it’s a great thing that we all don’t think alike. There’s something about Tao that is selfless…philanthropic! Ya know, I don’t think there was ever an altruistic bone in any upper TWI-leadership…but it feels so good to helps others…my wife and I have made several donations to charities helping the people/children of Ukraine and everyday I remember to say prays for them, Zelensky and his family as well as the US and every other country pitching in to help them. Right before the Russian invasion, our daughter’s best friend who attends the same day-hab went to Poland with her mother – they went to see her grandfather in the hospital – and they’re still there. Of course, we pray for them too. ~ ~ ~ ~ …tuning into the Tao frequency…being more flexible to go with the flow, or perhaps WORK WITH the flow… …which reminds me of something I heard at a Down syndrome conference (and I know this from personal experience as a parent) – people with Down syndrome usually exhibit obsessive/compulsive tendencies and often the best way to help them overcome – or work through those tendencies is by redirection rather than forcing them to make a complete stop. The conference speaker likened the difference between trying to dam up a mighty flowing river versus changing the course of the river. Yes, it would take some work to redirect it but not a herculean effort like trying to stop a mighty river. That’s the way I understand Tao - working with the flow…is to try and be more relaxed and accept a situation, rather than trying to take a heavy-handed approach to drastically alter or control it... Our daughter likes to be active most of the time. If we’re watching a movie and she’s not interested in it, she might get up and start vacuuming. So, we’ll redirect her to do something quieter – “why don’t you get your Kindle and do word-search over here by us.” Btw, she’s an ace on word-search – I can tell by how often I hear the little ding when she finds a word…sorry if I’m straying off topic here – but I thought this stuff might relate to Tao and synchronicity…anyway… As Bolen said: Synchronistic experiences leave us with a curious sense that we should pay attention… the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe, through that which underlies everything and which some call God… An uncanny, meaningful coincidence seems to lead to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle, as synchronistic events evoke an intuitively felt spiritual reality…you know what? since I left TWI - I do feel more connected to others...so there’s hope for spiritual dullards like me! ~ ~ ~ ~ Maybe this is synchronicity/Tao-like stuff in the Bible: I think of Joseph’s comment to his brothers who sold him into slavery Genesis 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. And Romans 8:28 seems to echo the same idea where it speaks of God’s providence – that He orchestrates events in life to accomplish temporal and/or eternal benefits And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. See also Deuteronomy 8: 15 - 18 - I see a twofold operation here – a pairing of God’s benevolence with our humble acceptance of His goodwill: 15“He led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water; He brought water for you out of the rock of flint. 16“In the wilderness He fed you manna which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do good for you in the end. 17“Otherwise, you may say in your heart, ‘My power and the strength of my hand made me this wealth.’ 18“But you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth… I think that Deuteronomy passage relates to what I referenced of Bolen’s earlier “Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine.”

That is concerning – perhaps a mental health professional is in order…I found a webpage that may give some direction: Problems in Adolescents By Sharon Levy , MD, MPH, Harvard Medical School Last full review/revision Sep 2020| Content last modified Sep 2020 Psychologic and social problems, particularly involving behavior and school issues, are more common during adolescence than at any other time during childhood. Adolescents are much more independent and mobile and are often out of the direct control of adults. When misbehavior becomes severe and frequent, adolescents should be evaluated for a psychosocial disorder by a mental health professional. In particular, depression, anxiety, and eating disorders are common during adolescence. Adolescents who have anxiety or mood disorders may have physical symptoms such as fatigue or chronic fatigue, dizziness, headache, and abdominal or chest pain. Depression is common among adolescents, and doctors actively screen for it during examinations. Suicide is rare, but thoughts about suicide (called suicidal ideation) are more common. Suicidal ideation requires an immediate mental health evaluation; parents should not be expected to determine how "serious" the problem is on their own. Anxiety often manifests during adolescence, as do mood disorders and disruptive behavioral disorders such as oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder. Thought disorders, in which a person has difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality (also called psychosis), most commonly begin during adolescence or early adulthood. The first episode of psychosis is called a psychotic break. Schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder are examples of thought disorders. Periods of psychosis may be related to drug use. In these cases, psychosis may resolve after a period of time. Psychotic episodes may occur with marijuana, particularly edible products. Some adolescents who have a psychotic episode caused by marijuana use go on to develop a chronic psychotic disorder. Eating disorders, especially in girls, are common and can be life threatening. Some adolescents go to extraordinary lengths to hide symptoms of an eating disorder, which may include substantial reductions in food intake, purging after eating, use of laxatives, or extensive, vigorous exercise. Doctors can often identify these problems. They can offer adolescents practical advice and, when appropriate, encourage adolescents to accept treatment provided by specialists. end of excerpts from: MSD Manual

Fascinating video – thanks, Rocky! Towards the latter part – Beau talks about the difference in perspectives and experiences – one person sees a connection between two ideas and yet to another person the two ideas look very far apart…that touches on the stimulating factor of Grease Spot Café…I wish I could embrace that more often…maybe it takes more patience, sympathy, empathy, consideration, kindness, etc. … there’s those mysterious push-and-pull forces that I am usually oblivious to at Grease Spot – ideas and feelings that encourage a person to leave their comfort-zone – and then there’s factors that draw a person to “someplace” way outside their comfort zone…some cool stuff to think about in the surviving-a-cult-experience-and-moving-on-in-life aspect of discussions at Grease Spot Cafe.

Penworks, thanks for recommending those books! I have two of Ehrman’s books: Misquoting Jesus and Lost Christianities (which has a fascinating chapter on Gnosticism)…I’m adding the Ehrman, Avalos, and Bobrick books you mentioned to my wish list. Bart Ehrman has an incredible body of work – some 30 books! see Wikipedia – Bart Ehrman …and after watching the You Tube of him - I’m interested in downloading some of his college-level video courses at The Great Courses