T-Bone

Pervert and subvert Craig had his Athletes of the Spirit - a knock-off of the 1983 film Staying Alive. If wierwille was still around in 1989 he could have done a knock-off of the sci-fi TV show Quantum Leap…only it would be called Quagmire Heap. The premise: Theorizing he could do whatever the hell he wanted in the space-time continuum, each session week Doctor Quackencharge steps into the Quagmire Heap Accelerator Array striving to rewrite history, theology, philosophy, psychology, cosmology, sociology, linguistics, logic, science, medicine, basketball legends, the fine arts, the white arts, the black arts, general hookie-pookism which includes the hokey pokey, even various and sundry nefarious sundries but never on a Sunday miscellaneous misfeasance, nonfeasance, and malfeasance feces. Everyone assumes each mission was successfully completed when Doctor Quackencharge emerges out of the Quagmire Heap Accelerator Array and makes one of the following proclamations: “That’s what really happened” “I’d like to tell you what happened but it’s lockbox, Baby!” “I’ve so renewed my mind that I don’t remember what happened” "I wish you could have seen how it really happened" "It's like Deja vu all over again" "I teach like Bullinger writes" "I write like Xerox copies" “I’m my own grandpa...that's the original grandfather clause exempting me from any copyright laws" “Fear is sand in the sandcastles built by cult-leaders” < not in the original text teleplay “Trust in me” "I said it. That settles it. You should believe it." “I invented the hook shot” "Millions now smoking Kool cigarettes" "Phooey I'm out of Drambuie" "Got Roofies?" “I didn’t need to invent the internet because I know all and see all” “I can do all things through delusions which strengthen me” "Lo Shonta My Shonta" "Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho" "This day and time and hour is exactly this day and time and hour" "Lo I am with you always if you memorize PFAL" “Do you know what killed that little Boy? Hell, if I know” “That’s the truth behind the facts” “Technically all the women in the universe belong in my Quagmire Heap Accelerator Array” "The Devil always kicks up his heels every time I take a dump in one of these contraptions" “As long as you love what you do, you can do as you full well please” “I and my PFAL class are one” “I just did a number two in my Quagmire Heap Accelerator Array” “Bull$hit happens” "In the beginning was PFAL" “Mum’s the word takes the place of the absent conscience” “It is what it is” "It ain't what it ain't" “It’s like a lot of things, kids” below: a section of the Quagmire Heap Accelerator Array grouped by color corresponding to the appropriate mathematically exact and scientifically precise faux textbook: The Orange Book, The Blue Book, etc.

I have been reading Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism and yesterday I came across something that made me think about this Absent Christ thread. From the following excerpts of the book, I couldn’t help but compare and contrast two very different men. There’s Paul – who had a phenomenal life-changing experience on the road to Damascus, chosen to be an apostle of Jesus Christ. Then there’s victor paul wierwille – who claimed he was given directives by God to pick up where Paul left off…cloaked in a mantle of deception he assumed the role of an apostle wannabe…a zealous pioneering advocate of a new idea – “The Word takes the place of the absent Christ”. …anyway… …the following excerpts are from pages 96 - 99 of the Kindle edition: Paul is a (perhaps the) primary witness in the shaping of the Christian revelation. He penned his words at a time when there were no written Gospels to feed his memory or to create his images. His epistles came during the oral period of Christian history, when there was no one authoritative source of written kerygma (the apostolic proclamation)… …nor do we have any way of knowing that Paul had access to them even if these portions of the tradition were written. These facts create an interpretative problem for modern expositors of Paul. Our minds have been so shaped by the Gospel account that we do not recognize how frequently we read Paul through the eyes of the Gospels. We need to embrace the fact that none of Paul’s first readers read him this way, for in their lives there were as yet no Gospels. To interpret Paul accurately we need to put ourselves into the first-century pre-gospel frame of reference and to hear Paul in fresh and authentic ways. When one does this the insights into the primitive Christian experience are startling and challenging… …Paul spoke and wrote Greek fluently, but with the inclusion of many secondhand semitisms. His writing style, however was the style of a speaker. He hardly ever used a period; only dashes. Sometimes his sentences would be so long, with so parenthetical thoughts thrown in, that a reader would forget what the subject of the sentence of the sentence was before reaching the verb. His writing had the rhythm of the spoken word, but he did reach heights of the almost poetic elegance in such passages as I Corinthians 13 and Rom. 8:31 – 39. Whatever else can be said about Paul, one certainly must acknowledge that on his scale of values the Law, the Torah, and his religious traditions were supreme. By this Law he lived, defined himself, shaped his life, and sought his ultimate meaning… …Paul’s writings reveal the combination of intense levels of self-negativity covered by intensely cultivated images of superiority. At first these forces fed Paul’s devotion to Judaism at the same time that they created his defensiveness. Subsequently these forces became operative in his later devotion to and understanding of the gospel. But whatever was the source of Paul’s anxiety, the rise of the Christian movement within Judaism threatened Paul’s security and identity so severely that he responded by becoming a persecutor of this movement… …Earlier convictions, passionately held, cannot be passionately abandoned without a volcanic internal crisis. Paul recounted his career as a persecutor (I Cor. 15:9; Gal.1:12ff, 1:22). And when his energies were directed to Christian ends, the intensity, passion, and single-mindedness of his personality were not diminished. He became an apostle in a manner no less consuming of his life… From: Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism: A Bishop Rethinks this Meaning of Scripture by John Shelby Spong End of excerpts ~ ~ ~ ~ A few thoughts... For an apostle who never knew Jesus during his earthly ministry – Paul’s life, letters and example certainly had a lot of significant input to Christian thought. For some reason the transformation of Paul resonates with me. I think I was knocked off of my high horse when I realized I was in a cult of the absent Christ . My indoctrination skipped the typical Christian route of going through the Gospels. ~ ~ ~ ~ As an apostle of Jesus Christ, Paul was a zealous pioneering advocate for the reality, immanency, and supremacy of the risen Christ. ~ ~ ~ ~ Paul and the other apostles didn’t lure people in with promises of health, wealth, power, and secret knowledge. Their “marketing strategy” was per the simple directive from their resurrected Lord: But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth Acts 1:8 NLT . In the New Testament the original notion of a witness is exhibited in the special form of one who attests his belief in the gospel by personal suffering. Hence it is that the use of the ecclesiastical term ("martyr." the Greek word for "witness," has arisen. From: Bible Study Tools: witness . Imagine if that was one of the benefits listed on the back of the green PFAL signup card: promotes personal suffering by belief in Jesus Christ. ~ ~ ~ ~ Real Christian witnesses should tell the truth about Jesus Christ. In other words, don’t go around “teaching” people Christ is absent! ~ ~ ~ ~ Paul and the other apostles didn’t go around browbeating new converts into submission by pontificating about “the greatness of the integrity and accuracy of The Word” because they didn’t have “The Word” (also known as wierwille's twisted interpretation of the King James Bible, aka PFAL ) . Thus, they couldn’t refer to chapter and verse or reference by PFAL class session number. They didn’t indoctrinate folks with “Scripture-interprets-itself” nonsense. They didn’t practice the fine art of “Scripture buildup” slight-of-hand magic fallacies to propagate the lie of 4 crucified with Jesus ( that was really just a self-promotion trick…it says “look what I found! I’m so smart ! Don't you want to see what else I have up my sleeve?” ). And they didn’t put on airs like they were some great research scholars with “I wish you could read it in the original” hooey. What did the apostles have? I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders, and miracles. II Corinthians 12:12 . “including” means not limited to signs, wonders, and miracles. The purpose of that was to authenticate them as God’s genuine apostles…what has God ever done to authenticate wierwille’s “ministry” ? All we have is wierwille’s initial claim that God talked to him? And I ask that in all sincerity as a one might ask in a court of law. If there were ever witnesses to verify God talked to wierwille or can attest to wierwille’s signs, miracles, and wonders - they’ve never come forward. Where are they? ~ ~ ~ ~ Besides divine authentication Paul and his associates walked the talk. They inspired others by their example: You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. I Thessalonians 1:6 I Thess. 1:6 is a compelling generation saga. The Lord Jesus Christ is the first born among many brothers and sisters ( Romans 8:29 ) or like the progenitor - founder of a family, first in the line of descent; In genealogy (commonly known as family history) a progenitor is the earliest recorded ancestor of a blood-relative family group of descendants. Paul and his associates were 2nd generation “imitators” of the Lord Jesus Christ ( note Bible Hub: Greek/English Interlinear of I Thess. 1:6 “imitators” in Greek is the word μιμηταὶ - also ( Bible Hub: Greek mime_tai , Strong’s # 3402 , from which we get our English word “mimic” = imitate someone or their actions or words) . The Thessalonians became the 3rd generation to mimic Christ. ~ ~ ~ ~ This seems to me to be the supernatural order of things in the early Christian movement and in my opinion just as relevant today. Jesus Christ – his earthly life, words, works, suffering, death, resurrection, ascension, and current various roles should be first and foremost the core elements of what every Christian – and especially pastors and those evangelizing - should know. these folks are the 2nd generation imitators of the Lord. No one is perfect but I think when we are less self-promoting and become more honest, humble and Christ-promoting, people can see the difference. It’s not being on an ego-trip or driven like a pushy sales rep trying to fill a class quota. Genuine altruistic Christian behavior is a supernatural attractant ultimately spawning a 3rd generation of Christ imitators. ~ ~ ~ ~ When I was about 12 years old, I would grab a badminton racquet, put The Four Season’s Walk Like A Man on my big brother’s record player and stand up on his bed so I could see myself in the mirror strumming the racquet and lip-syncing to the song. Damn I was good! Oh those were the days… They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery – which means that one imitates someone else because one admires that person or values what that person is doing. But what I did was child’s play. I knew that !!!! I could not sing like the Four Seasons – still can’t carry a tune. And a badminton racquet is not a musical instrument – I don’t care what alternate tuning you use! ~ ~ ~ ~ Years later I took up the electric bass. I am self-taught. I learned by imitation. I would put on record by The Cream, Hendrix, Zappa, The Four Tops or the Beatles and even with my wooden ear - eeeeeeventuallyyyyyy - by hunt and pluck, I’d get in sync / tune with the bass player. That takes critical thinking skills – there’s a learning curve. I’m not a linguist to explain the nuance of difference between imitate and emulate. So, internet to the rescue! Online it says emulate means to attempt to equal or be the same as, whereas imitate means to follow as a model or a pattern. imitate means to copy something, to follow something as a model or to simulate something. The word imitate may take on the connotation of unflattering mimicry, or it may take on the connotation of a counterfeit representation of something. Imitate is a transitive verb, which is a verb that takes an object. Related words are imitates, imitated, imitating, imitator, imitation. The word imitate is derived from the Latin word imitatus, which means copy or portray. Emulate also refers to imitating someone, but it means to match that person in importance or success, or to surpass that person in importance or success. Emulate carries the connotation of wishing to excel by patterning oneself on someone else who is worthy of esteem. The word emulate is also a transitive verb, related words are emulates, emulated, emulating, emulator, emulation. Emulate is derived from the Latin word aemulator, which means an imitative rival. From: Grammarist com: imitate versus emulate To teach myself how to play bass, I chose bass players that I thought were worthy of esteem. I would imitate and eventually emulate them. I’d zero in on what I liked and analyzed why it worked. For improvisation I loved to listen to The Cream’s bassist Jack Bruce. Tunes like Spoonful (live) never fails to fascinate me with Bruce’s call and response musical form on the bass - he plays a melodic riff then follows it up by a second or third slightly different phrase that completes the idea. I also like listening to the lilting phrases of the bass, violas and cellos written by Paul McCartney on tunes like Eleanor Rigby and Penny Lane. What’s surprising is that both Bruce and McCartney have mentioned Motown studio bassist James Jamerson as a big influence. So, I guess that makes me a 3rd generation home-schooled bassist. I've played bass in a few garage bands, had a few bar room gigs , a bar mitzvah or two, a few block parties, coffee houses, birthday parties, college campus parties, one college musical production, and last but not least in TWI-ministry bands I've played in the Music Challenge, Rome City Campus Chapel, small stages at the Rock...Funny though - they'd never give me a microphone...I wonder why? I think wierwille may have had a childlike fantasy he was the follow-up act for Paul the apostle. wierwille had a charismatic personality. He was a dynamic speaker. He claimed God had spoken to him and chose him to be the teacher for this day and time and hour. But it wasn’t real. He plagiarized the work of others - which was the equivalent of 12-year-old me lip-syncing and strumming the badminton racquet to Walk Like A Man…and I tell you what – even as a 12-year-old I knew what I was doing was not the real thing. wierwille was play-acting the part of Paul the apostle. He lacked authenticity…and in all his plagiarizing, lying, thieving, Drambuie-drinking, self-promotion, sexual predations he never earned the right to tell the truth about Jesus Christ – and it was apparent he had little desire to do so. He could talk the walk – I’ll give him that. It’s got to be the height of blasphemy for wierwille to teach Christ is absent…maybe call it heresy or heterodoxy…Heresy being an offense against Christianity, consisting in a denial of some essential doctrine, which denial is publicly avowed, and obstinately maintained. If it’s sustained – that usually takes an organized system of thought. Heterodoxy is a system of doctrines, contrary to some established standard of faith, as the Scriptures, the creed, or standards of a church. ~ ~ ~ ~ There are some parallels with my time of involvement with The Way International. I totally bought into wierwille’s bull$hit. I thought he was the real deal. I wanted to be a great believer like I thought he was. That was one of the big reasons why I went into the way corps – to imitate him. wierwille was the progenitor for a whole line of pseudo-Christians. I was a 2nd generation faker, following in my “Dad’s” footsteps. Couldn’t wait to go out into areas of concern, interest and need (per TWI’s agenda) and sign up folks for PFAL…let’s plagiarize / revise a Who tune “talkin’ ‘bout the third generation” and wrap it up with an Austin Powers’ twist “yeah Baby!” Note the challenging counterfeit to the fundamental idea of I Thessalonians 1:6: wierwille imitated the trappings of Paul the apostle but not what Paul had on the inside. Jesus Christ put it this way: What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness. Matthew 23:27, 28 What did Paul have on the inside? I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 Our Christian life legally began when we were crucified with Christ (idea for a new book: The Billions Crucified with Jesus Christ…take that, Bullinger! ) . Our Christian lifestyle is contingent upon our relational choices. Do we prefer those comfortable old shoes of bad habits? Or do we make more of an effort to follow Christ? Is Christ absent or present in our lives? (idea for a book sequel: Why Is My Zombie Look-alike Still Following Me? ) Then he said to the crowd, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross daily, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. Luke 9:23,24 ….(how about I make it a trilogy: Every Damn Day I have To Crucify My Zombie Look-alike ) . The Absent Christ? I think Christ was absent from wierwille’s life and legacy.

if I’m not mistaken, how wierwille relates “the introduction” was that she said to him something like “you teach like Bullinger writes” …which may be an unintended admission of plagiarism…My wife told me she had a high school biology teacher who had memorized the entire textbook. Her and her classmates realized this one day. While he droned on about science stuff often addressing the classroom skeleton model, they noticed he was quoting almost verbatim from the textbook.

Understood – I knew you were kidding around. My WOW year was pathetic about the only good I got out of it was meeting my wife – and we still put up with each other after 46 years…and I don’t have to caravan to the Rock every year to embellish stories of abundance and power on the WOW field. I can undo all that from the comfort of my fully-furnished-kilowatt-eating home…I’ll just hop on my laptop, whenever we take a break from binge-watching The West Wing.

allow me to use the standard answer a question with a question tactic: Hey Chockfull, wanna get blessed? Wanna sponsor me in life? okay - so that's 2 questions...that means it's established, right? wow wee wow now it's 3 questions to your 1...I win by triple play!

After the 1st century God was not able to get “the Word” out until wierwille came along. God is not able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think unless we believe He can. God is not able to count up to 4 or He would have had it clearly written that there were 4 crucified with His Son. God is not able to make a rock He cannot lift until His needs and wants are parallel and when His willingness equals His ability. God is not able to save someone until He knows what to do with them after He saves them. God is not able to spit in your direction until the cult-leader gets paid. God is not able to do as He full well pleases until He loves Himself and loves His neighbor (Jesus Christ and/or the Holy Spirit ) as He loves Himself. God is not able to give anything but what He is - God. God is not able to speak to anyone but God. God is not able to get big and fat spiritually until He speaks in tongues a lot! God is not able until wierwille says He’s able. God is not Abel - he be dead longtime.

Doesn't matter - either way it's still a Mickey Mouse Operation.

What light through yonder mindset breaks? A. Opening the fridge door, the little light comes – you see the fridge is empty – then it dawns on you that TWI forgot to pick up the fridge. B. A week later as the sun rises – you wake up on the hardwood floor – you had used the PFAL book as a pillow – and a few opened Way Magazines as covers. With the morning sunlight now flooding the empty room (even the red drapes were gone) you begin reviewing the PFAL book. Then it dawns on you – you shouldn’t have been so quick to send in your abundant sharing before paying the electric bill. C. That evening roused from a weird dream of attending PFAL ’77 for 10 years straight - you see bright headlights pull up in the driveway. Who could that be? Then it dawns on you – tonight you’re supposed to host a public ex for the new PFAL Today class. D. After awkwardly explaining on the fly to everyone there was a mix-up of your order at the Rooms-To-Go Outlet and coincidentally for some inexplicable reason there is an isolated power outage at your home – they all left - except for the new branch coordinator. Having the uncanny sense to realize your misfortune, he offers to move into your home and bless you with a lot of corps notes and select Advanced Class memorabilia. Then it dawns on you - maybe it’s a sign you should give him the house so you could go Way Ambassador.

Mike: The real reason I didn't start a separate thread is because I expected sharp criticisms from others and management if I were to post my own thread on it, starting with a super long post T-Bone: ah – so it was YOUR believing ! You know what killed that initial post? It was the FEAR in the heart and life of that Grease Spotter! ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: It is the case that I have OFTEN quoted or referred to this tape. The transcript is worth a slow read, and for understanding, sans the gotchya game. T-Bone: When someone with a lot of frequent-liar-miles, complains of others asking valid question by saying they’re playing the gotcha game – I tend to think the one with the frequent-liar-miles is really looking for a loophole or exit clause to win an argument or simply to dodge a debate…Some say the dodging tactic of claiming it’s a gotcha game is similar to eristic . In philosophy and rhetoric, eristic (from Eris, the ancient Greek goddess of chaos, strife, and discord) refers to an argument that aims to successfully dispute another's argument, rather than searching for truth. According to T.H. Irwin, "It is characteristic of the eristic to think of some arguments as a way of defeating the other side, by showing that an opponent must assent to the negation of what he initially took himself to believe." Eristic is arguing for the sake of conflict, as opposed to resolving conflict. From Wikipedia: eristic ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: WHO on God's green earth could have spread the Word to the Hippies but VPW ??? Most of you heard the Word ultimately due to Hippies effectively speaking it and spreading it. It was pretty Ohio bound (in spite of international efforts of VPW) until the Hippies got involved. T-Bone: you’re referring to wierwille hijacking the Jesus movement…instead of your wierwille-centric narrative let’s review some accounts from the hippies themselves: Jim Doop, The Way West and vpw DWBH on Doop and Heefner Jimmy Doop's post Sept. 8 2005 about The Way West and wierwille wanting to control the money

TBA # 3 this was wierwille’s ONLY claim to fame: God talked to him. Are there any witnesses to corroborate that STORY? NOPE! That really was his ONLY claim to fame. He said it himself innumerable times and various ways: he disparaged the five senses and “worldly wisdom” and thought little of cognitive skills and criticized seminaries and gets a fake degree so he can demand folks call him “doctor”. What’s also so ridiculous and pathetic is that wierwille said God “…would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first generation.” A variant of the way he put it in Whiteside’s book The Way Living in Love on page 178: “And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.” Notice the differences between the transcript of the tape and Whiteside’s book? If God had spoken to me audibly, I would make sure to remember it correctly. If that was to be my God-given mission – that would define my life – I would have had it tattooed on my forearm so I would be sure to remember it correctly it – and look at it often to remind me whenever I’d be tempted to give up or be. distracted. The BIG problem with this supposed message from on high is that God forgot to tell wierwille that there wasn’t a written “Word” in the first century – there was no – I repeat no King James Bibles or any version of the entire Bible – below are a few posts where I point out this nonsense in wierwille’s version of the space-time continuum – followed by some hyperlinks about dating when the Bible was written: theories of inspiration wierwille’s lack of concern for the text in the 1st century they mostly shared about Jesus Christ our risen Lord and Savior ~ ~ ~ ~ Wikipedia: dating the Bible The Spiritual Life: dating the Bible Foundations: when was the Bible written? Bible Study Tools: when was the Bible written? Isn’t that funny. wierwille’s claim to fame was saying God would teach him about something that didn’t exist. That’s all for now

TBA #2 Why would wierwille say he was very interested in foreign missions? Something doesn’t smell right about that. He exhibited all the signs of a malignant narcissist. I wonder if he even had a single altruistic bone in his body. He goes on the mission fields and finds it “surprisingly revolting” . He said those serving on the mission fields had no more light than he had back in the states – though they’re all from the same theological seminaries. Gee maybe they were just teaching about Jesus Christ - oh how despicable! I remember in PFAL wierwille went on and on about the guy who’s arm was healed but he strongly expressed he did not believe in wierwille’s Jesus. Does anyone else find this bull$hit so full of holes? It turns my stomach just thinking about those poor foreigners being deprived of the essentials like 4 crucified and magical thinking (aka law of believing ). (I’m being sarcastic) This is also a very suspicious thing. wierwille gives no metrics or how he quantified and qualified that the mission fields were “surprisingly revolting”. But these stories of wierwille’s trips to foreign lands would come in handy for a con artist who might want to reinvent himself – I mean the people in the states who are familiar with him aren’t there to confirm or deny his agenda, successes and/or failures. A lot of fishy stuff in all that bull$hit. that's all for now oops almost forgot - check out this hyperlink con artists, sociopaths troubled with narcissistic personality disorder

TBA # 1 (T-Bone Analysis #1 ) so much to tackle...gotta start somewhere... thought I pick out this one - wierwille claimed that God would teach him how to get the error out of the work of others. this one is too easy...it's like he's setting me up for the kill shot why didn't God show wierwille the error of Bullinger's 4 crucified ?!?!?!?! It's been discussed in a lot of threads on Grease Spot Cafe - and excuse the shameless plug, I have a lot of detail on that on this particular post - here and yet reading further down in the transcript wierwille brags about teaching this doctrine of disinformation and all the folks who bought into it: what a shyster!!!! what an incompetent con artist!!!!! okay - someone remind me again why Mike wanted us to read this transcript...it's not helping his cause. I'm gonna go out on a limb here - I bet I'm better at remembering details about PFAL and Bullinger than most diehard wierwille fans. that's all for now -

It’s frustrating and disappointing trying to debate with someone that claims two contradictory ideas are compatible – for example: the Bible says don’t steal and lie but it’s okay for wierwille to plagiarize (steal and lie). And when you point out the ideas are opposites, they act like the victim and say I’m playing gotcha. ~ ~ ~ ~ I guess some folks think listening to the same lies over and over again one might tend to believe they are true? Well…does seem to work for some big wierwille fans… and honestly in a way, I can relate to that – I listened to wierwille’s lies for 12 years – until some jarring experiences slapped me in the face and brought me out of a psychological stupor. wierwille’s lies and theatrics were to rope people into his delusions of grandeur. wierwille’s dramatic performances have little to do with Christ or anything of noble substance – it’s more about appealing to one’s search for answers and meaning – it’s about baiting the hook. The ideology of wierwille has little substance but a whole lot of hype about having substance.

There is so much nonsense to sift through here – truly a daunting task - but I’m up for taking a stab at isolating some of the bull$hit…this is a target rich environment so there’ll be plenty of fair game for other Grease Spotters. Mike: People like Kenyon and Leonard were men of God, dedicated to God's people. God gave them (and many others) some revelations SO THAT they could bless His people with them. God wanted us blessed so He told VPW what to collect from them for us. T-Bone: Hold onto your seat, Mike. I would like to offer you the red pill which represents truth, and the way things work in the real world: human beings have cognitive abilities which is something that healthy human beings are born with or develop as they grow. Cognitive abilities are mental skills used in the process of acquiring knowledge, the manipulation of information, reasoning, and problem-solving. They have more to do with the mechanisms of how people learn rather than with actual knowledge. Mike, as best as I can gather from all your years of posting on Grease Spot Café is that it seems to me you have adopted wierwille’s lazy and plagiarizing mindset – apparently YOU DOUBT that people are capable of thinking, problem-solving and creating / inventing. wierwille frequently disparaged cognitive skills – exemplified best in a Sunday Night Teaching tape “Carnal Versus Spiritual” on which he said some fascinating goofball statements without any pertinent Scripture references to support his claims. The following are a few of his preposterous claims on the tape: 1. Psychologists talk about the subconscious…they’ve never been there…it’s actually the mind of the spirit. 2. All learning comes by way of the five senses…When you’re born again you now have another avenue of learning – the spirit. 3. It’s Christ behind every cell of your being…even behind your brain cells. 4. All the great discoveries and inventions come by way of the spirit – revelation. 5. It’s not because you have such a high IQ – it’s because God has such a high IQ. 6. Countries without Christ do not invent. Apparently wierwille had a very low opinion of a human being’s cognitive skills…If I had to guess why he felt that way – I’d say it’s probably because he was lazy and incompetent – I mean, why else would he plagiarize so much? To be honest, I have a very low opinion of wierwille’s cognitive skills. Of course, you do have the option to take the blue pill representing a return to the blissful delusion of wierwille’s ideology. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: God was the owner of these revelations, and He didn't have to ask Leonard for earthly, legal copyright permission to tell VPW to get the goods for more of God's people to be blessed. God cares little for the market or the academia ouch from this, which is infinitesimally small for the market and zero for academia. T-Bone: *** broken record alert *** you used this unscrupulous argument in a previous post…and so the *** fight broken records with broken records countermeasures *** has been activated… flooding tube 4 …tube 4 flooded… …opening outer door…outer door open…fire tube 4: Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5:20 …and another thing – what proof does anyone have of God telling wierwille what to collect and teach? Other than wierwille claiming that! Were there others who witnessed this “historic” and phenomenal event? A just balance and scales belong to the LORD; All the weights of the bag are His concern. Proverbs 16:11 NASB . The LORD demands accurate scales and balances; he sets the standards for fairness. Proverbs 16:11 NLT . Maybe it’s just me – but I didn’t think it was possible that someone could have such devoted loyalty to a plagiarizing pseudo-Christian cult-leader like wierwille that they would wholeheartedly come to his defense even though it means flat out contradicting God’s demands for ACCURACY and HONESTY in the marketplace or even in any personal business. furthermore, another error in your argument that I need to point out – if someone gives me a gift – then they don’t own it – I do! ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: …You are not the one to judge that this is stealing, nor is any court. I suppose you would object to Jacob stealing Esau's birthright? It was against the law for Tyndale to translate the Bible into English, but he did it, and paid for it with his life. SUCH a lawbreaker~!!! God is not a blind, mechanical, human judge like you want him to be. He knew Esau did not value the birthright and Jacob did. He knows that we needed what He had BG Leonard bang out the first draft for. T-Bone: You might want to review this gobbledygook argument – and try to give a clear and simple reason why you have set YOURSELF up as the absolute authority over and above any courts, the rule of law, the ethical demands of the Bible, and even the sense of ownership and responsibility that is common to all humans…Just wondering. Who put you in charge? What are your qualifications? Got any references? ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: …I have privately let leaders there know that I have bootleg copies of the class. They can figure it out from all the passages I have posted here, plus I even called Howard Allen in 1988 to let him know what was going on. Me and many others were busy making copies of things to serve as backups and insurance against any more TWI crashes like the 1986 crash. I was ready to go to jail for it. We had dedicated our lives to God's class and no TWI was going to take it away from us. T-Bone: Ah ha! You’ve been taking the blue pill for quite a while I see. Well that explains it. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: Again, you demonstrate a complete disconnect with the points I make. It had NOTHING to do with it being intellectual work. It has EVERYTHING to do with Who the Author was of those revelations. Why are you unable to understand what I write? Try making flash card: "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deut 29:29 T-Bone: okay, we’re back to repeating oldies but goodies… *** broken record alert *** this is not a drill *** *** fight broken records with broken records countermeasures has been reactivated *** répétez s’il vous plait (we must be on a French sub – the underwater warship - NOT the sandwich…interprets itself right in the verse ) reload tube 4 with flash card warheads… …tube 4 reloaded with flash card warheads… flooding tube 4… …tube 4 flooded…opening outer door…outer door open…fire tube 4: Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5:20 …and another thing – what proof does anyone have of God telling wierwille what to collect and teach? Other than wierwille claiming that! Were there others who witnessed this “historic” and phenomenal event? A just balance and scales belong to the LORD; All the weights of the bag are His concern. Proverbs 16:11 NASB . The LORD demands accurate scales and balances; he sets the standards for fairness. Proverbs 16:11 NLT . Maybe it’s just me – but I didn’t think it was possible that someone could have such devoted loyalty to a plagiarizing pseudo-Christian cult-leader like wierwille that they would wholeheartedly come to his defense even though it means flat out contradicting God’s demands for ACCURACY and HONESTY in the marketplace or even in any personal business. furthermore, another error in your argument that I need to point out – if someone gives me a gift – then they don’t own it – I do! ~ ~ ~ ~ Coming soon to a Betamax Home Fellowship Theater near you: The Hunt for Copies of the PFAL Class And be on the lookout for the WW2 (wierwille’s wonky 2 ) classic Das Bootleg Imagine reliving the thrill of stretched coffee Endure the cramped sleeping arrangements of metal folding chairs Experience surround sound: the class participating in a snooze fest zzzzZZZZ ZZzzz Enjoy the freedom to binge watch all 12 sessions in a day and a half

Then the cinematographer said “Just hear me out, guys. Picture this. Kirk, you’re front and center on the bridge telling Spock you want to start The Other Star Fleet Academy, and the - - “Leonard interrupted him by saying “Why the hell would he want to do that? It doesn’t make sense. It’s too early to do spinoffs.” Deforest murmured softly to William “He’s out of his Vulcan mind. I’m not even a real doctor – so why does it matter?” William sat there quietly thinking of the options a second show would afford him. “On the show I’ve been romancing women all across the galaxy, human or otherwise…exploring star systems and its people, often quite literally. Having my own Star Fleet Academy, I could show new recruits how it’s done.”

Mike: ... in addition to seeing some distorted histrionics at the beginning of this thread about that 3 month study suggestion, I now see you performing Winston Smith's historical revision duties here in the same thread. T-Bone: said the 20th degree black arts master contortionist of wierwille’s twisted ideology. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: …The truths Leonard taught belonged to God, from Whom he got some good revelations. He also had error. VPW's job was to collect these revelations God had given to Leonard and to many others and "put it all together." T-Bone: The Bible says “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” II Peter 1:21 , so technically The Bible is a co-authored compilation of books – with attribution appropriately going to God AND certain human authors if they are named in the book. Usually, specific chapter and verse is acceptable in proper citation. How one wants to delineate between the human and divine portions of scripture is a whole other topic – which I addressed on another thread mentioning what scholars have said were the four most popular theories of inspiration - here ...sorry for the digression. Now when pastors, scholars, theologians, linguists, Christians, atheists, agnostics, Grease Spotters, con artists, pseudo-Christian cult-leaders, or any flimflam man with a fake degree offers an interpretation or explanation of something in the Bible, one could say that interpretation or explanation belongs to them. Unless of course, we’re talking about an unabashed plagiarist like wierwille who pirates the intellectual property of others. That has the makings for a grand larceny criminal case – stealing property and selling it to others in the guise of classes, books, teachings, and articles on the Bible. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: There were items in VPW's teachings that were not in Leonard's teachings. There were items in Leonard's teachings that were NOT in VPW's teachings. He filtered out Leonard's errors for us. That is the actual history. T-Bone: unfortunately another obfuscating delusion spoken into being by operating the sick manifestation word-of-wierwille. Do not try this at home if your believing-bias is not channeling "Are the Cult-Leaders Still Alive ?" e-Book (that’s an ectoplasm book ). A therapist might not agree that this is actual history – unless one has a history of suffering from these delusions. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: VPW righteously collected what God told him to collect and teach. I totally reject the ideas you folks nurture here on copyrights and originality and ownership. None of that market stuff or academic stuff belongs in God's family. God gives revelation and He owns it. T-Bone: Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5:20 …and another thing – what proof does anyone have of God telling wierwille what to collect and teach? Other than wierwille claiming that! Were there others who witnessed this “historic” and phenomenal event? A just balance and scales belong to the LORD; All the weights of the bag are His concern. Proverbs 16:11 NASB . The LORD demands accurate scales and balances; he sets the standards for fairness. Proverbs 16:11 NLT . Maybe it’s just me – but I didn’t think it was possible that someone could have such devoted loyalty to a plagiarizing pseudo-Christian cult-leader like wierwille that they would wholeheartedly come to his defense even though it means flat out contradicting God’s demands for ACCURACY and HONESTY in the marketplace or even in any personal business. furthermore, another error in your argument that I need to point out – if someone gives me a gift – then they don’t own it – I do! ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: Four days before the start of PFAL'77 he came to the BRC lunchroom. I was there. He said that God had told him that the whole idea to replace the '68 class was not from God and not wise. T-Bone: I think it’s odd that God waited until 4 days before PFAL ’77 was to start to notify wierwille it was a bad idea. If that were true, I would not be real impressed at what seems to be your screwy idea of an incompetent, disorganized, and wasteful god who would allow an enormous number of staff of a supposedly Christian organization to waste time, effort, and money to prepare and set up for the class not to mention all the students like me who not only paid good money to attend the class/housing/food/traveling expenses – besides taking time off from our jobs! ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: The plan to have PFAL'77 replace the original film class was aborted 4 days before PFAL'77 started. I was there and I have witnesses. There were over a hundred people there when he made this announcement of a change in plans. I posted all this data (and much more) in "A PFAL'77 Story" here 15 years ago. I think I may have posted it twice. One was in the thread "Masters of the Word" which had to be deleted during the "Bandwidth Crisis" some time ago. But it may be in another thread here still. T-Bone: Wow, you were there, and you have witnesses! That establishes it! Extra Extra read all about it: TWI-followers say their delusional cult-leader admits to large-scale fraud ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: I am not good with search engines. T-Bone: yes, and your cognitive skills leave a lot to be desired as well. ~ ~ ~ ~ (Mike, I reread your post A PFAL ’77 story – and I'm sorry to say it actually strengthens my case that wierwille was indeed delusional and flew by the seat of his underpants – the only experience and training he had was in the fine art of stealing from others…if a god was his copilot – it may have been one of those little phallic shaped golden idols of the Old Testament who dick-tated from his drawers where to crash land )

Great post, WordWolf ! It’s fascinating and satisfying to find out about the much more significant backstory of a biblical account that wierwille obfuscated with his amateurish speculations. Thanks!

Another great analysis, Skyrider! I love how you relate the real history behind TWI’s creative fiction. Nice correlation of TWI’s preserving the wierwille-myths with the story of 1984 (a book I read ages ago in high school). I’m so thankful to be free of a cult’s control of information. I’m thankful for the internet and cyberplaces like Grease Spot Café. Imagine if we didn’t have this technology. I left in ’86. With no internet back then – I felt like a lone wolf – like there was something wrong with me – I couldn’t see the big picture…it was like existing between two worlds…cult-world and the real world…I was disconnected from both…however with time/effort/Grease Spot Café I feel I have a better sense of the big picture…now I’m in touch with my family and stuff that really matters…and TWI seems like a long time ago in a “galaxy” far, far away

I thought WordWolf gave a good definition…and to reiterate what I said – third aid is how they referred to it at the Rome City campus…equivalent perhaps to when I was in high school and the teacher said, “if you’re sick, go see the school nurse.” It may have been an unintended consequence, but I think labeling it “third aid” had the subtle effect of guilt tripping me into feeling I’m a lousy believer and I had to settle for third best.

Controversies in Christian Theology over the Trinity Controversy makes things more interesting to talk about. It would be boring if everyone had the same opinion...debate keeps the discussion stimulating. I’ve been browsing through certain books and online sources noting the various Christian controversies. As you probably know there’s been a wide range of doctrinal disputes ever since the church began…but in keeping with the theme of this thread I found one online source that encapsulated the various theological issues – and so here below I copied and pasted portions pertinent to this discussion. Also note, if you’re like me and enjoy theological and philosophical wrangling you might enjoy reading the whole article (hyperlink is posted below) because it briefly mentions some other doctrinal issues in the church’s history…anyway excerpts below mostly deal with the Trinity…enjoy: The Christological controversies As in the area of the doctrine of the Trinity, the general development of Christology has been characterized by a plurality of views and formulations. Solutions intermediate between the positions of Antioch and Alexandria were constantly proposed. Two particular solutions became so controversial as to be deemed heretical. During the 5th century the position subsequently referred to by the mainstream of Christianity as Nestorianism, associated with Nestorius and placing strong emphasis upon the human aspects of Jesus Christ at the expense of his divine aspects, arose from the Antiochene school. The position known as monophysitism, associated with the monk Eutyches (and, according to some detractors, with Cyril of Alexandria) and placing strong emphasis upon the divine nature of Christ at the apparent expense of his humanity, emerged from the Alexandrian school. After the reign of Constantine, the Roman emperor who effectively made Christianity the religion of the empire, the great ecumenical synods occupied themselves essentially with the task of creating uniform formulations binding upon the entire imperial church. The Council of Chalcedon (451) finally settled the dispute between Antioch and Alexandria by drawing from each, declaring: We all unanimously teach…one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, perfect in deity and perfect in humanity…in two natures, without being mixed, transmuted, divided, or separated. The distinction between the natures is by no means done away with through the union, but rather the identity of each nature is preserved and concurs into one person and being. The Christological statement composed at Chalcedon did not resolve the dispute to everyone’s satisfaction, as certain eastern, “non-Chalcedonian,” churches felt that the council’s statement about the “identity of each nature” had strayed too close to the purported dyophysitism of Nestorius and therefore too far from what they perceived to have been the miaphysite Christology of Cyril. Even the Christological formulas, however, do not claim to offer a rational conceptual clarification. Instead, they emphasize clearly three contentions in the mystery of the sonship of God. First, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is completely God, that in reality “the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” in him (Colossians 2:9). Second, Jesus Christ is completely human. Third, those two “natures” do not exist beside one another in an unconnected way but, rather, are joined in him in a personal unity. Once again, the Neoplatonic metaphysics of substance offered the categories so as to settle conceptually those various theological concerns. Thus, the idea of the unity of substance (homoousia) of the divine Logos with God the Father assured the complete divinity of Jesus Christ, and the mystery of the person of Jesus Christ could be grasped in a complex but decisive formula: two natures in one person. The concept of person, taken from Roman law, served to join the fully divine and fully human natures of Christ into an individual unity. Christology, however, is not the product of abstract logical operations but instead originates in the liturgical and charismatic sphere wherein Christians engage in prayer, meditation, and asceticism. Not being derived primarily from abstract teaching, it rather changes within the liturgy in new forms and in countless hymns of worship—as in the words of the Easter liturgy: The king of the heavens appeared on earth out of kindness to man and it was with men that he associated. For he took his flesh from a pure virgin and he came forth from her, in that he accepted it. One is the Son, two-fold in essence, but not in person. Therefore in announcing him as in truth perfect God and perfect man, we confess Christ our God… Contradictory aspects of the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit is one of the most elusive and difficult themes in Christian theology, because it refers to one of the three persons in the Godhead but does not evoke concrete images the way “Father” or “Creator” and “Son” or “Redeemer” do. A characteristic view of the Holy Spirit is sketched in the Gospel According to John: the outpouring of the Holy Spirit takes place only after the Ascension of Christ; it is the beginning of a new time of salvation, in which the Holy Spirit is sent as the Paraclete (Counsellor) to the church remaining behind in this world. The phenomena described in John, which are celebrated in the church at Pentecost, are understood as the fulfillment of this promise. With this event (Pentecost), the church entered into the period of the Holy Spirit. The essence of the expression of the Holy Spirit is free spontaneity. The Spirit blows like the wind, “where it wills,” but where it blows it establishes a firm norm by virtue of its divine authority. The spirit of prophecy and the spirit of knowledge (gnōsis) are not subject to the will of the prophet; revelation of the Spirit in the prophetic word or in the word of knowledge becomes Holy Scripture, which as “divinely breathed” “cannot be broken” and lays claim to a lasting validity for the church. The Spirit, which is expressed in the various officeholders of the church, likewise founds the authority of ecclesiastical offices. The laying on of hands, as a sign of the transference of the Holy Spirit from one person to another, is a characteristic ritual that visibly represents and guarantees the continuity of the working of the Spirit in the officeholders chosen by the Apostles. It is, in other words, the sacramental sign of the succession of the full power of spiritual authority of bishops and priests. The Holy Spirit also creates the sacraments and guarantees the constancy of their action in the church. All the expressions of church life—doctrine, office, polity, sacraments, power to loosen and to bind, and prayer—are understood as endowed by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit, however, is also the revolutionizing, freshly creating principle in church history. All the reformational movements in church history, which broke with old institutions, have appealed to the authority of the Holy Spirit. Opposition to the church—through appeal to the Holy Spirit—became noticeable for the first time in Montanism, in the mid-2nd century. Montanus, a Phrygian prophet and charismatic leader, understood himself and the prophetic movement sustained by him as the fulfillment of the promise of the coming of the Paraclete. In the 13th century a spiritualistic countermovement against the institutional church gained attention anew in Joachim of Fiore, who understood the history of salvation in terms of a continuing self-realization of the divine Trinity in the three times of salvation: (1) the time of the Father, (2) the time of the Son, and (3) the time of the Holy Spirit. He promised the speedy beginning of the period of the Holy Spirit, in which the institutional papal church, with its sacraments and its revelation hardened in the letter of scripture, would be replaced by a community of charismatic figures, filled with the Spirit, and by the time of “spiritual knowledge.” This promise became the spiritual stimulus of a series of revolutionary movements within the medieval church—e.g., the reform movement of the radical Franciscan spirituals. Their effects extended to the Hussite reform movement led by Jan Hus in 15th-century Bohemia and to the 16th-century radical reformer, Thomas Müntzer, who substantiated his revolution against the princes and clerical hierarchs with a new outpouring of the Spirit. Quakerism represents the most radical mode of rejection—carried out in the name of the freedom of the Holy Spirit—of all institutional forms, which are regarded as shackles and prisons of the Holy Spirit. In the 20th century a revival of charismatic forms of Christianity, called Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement, centred on the recovery of the experience of the Holy Spirit and necessitated some fresh theological inquiry about the subject… …The emergence of Trinitarian speculations in early church theology led to great difficulties in the article about the “person” of the Holy Spirit. In the New Testament the Holy Spirit appeared more as power than as person, though there was distinctive personal representation in the form of the dove at Jesus’ baptism. But it was difficult to incorporate this graphic or symbolic representation into dogmatic theology. Nevertheless, the idea of the complete essence (homoousia) of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son was achieved through the writings of Athanasius. This was in opposition to all earlier attempts to subordinate the Holy Spirit to the Son and to the Father and to interpret the Spirit—similarly to anti-Trinitarian Christology—as a prince of the angels. According to Athanasius, the Holy Spirit alone guarantees the complete redemption of humanity: “through participation in the Holy Spirit we partake of the divine nature.” In his work De Trinitate (“On the Trinity”), Augustine undertook to render the essence of the Trinity understandable in terms of the Trinitarian structure of the human person: the Holy Spirit appears as the Spirit of love, which joins Father and Son and draws people into this communion of love. In Eastern Orthodox thought, however, the Holy Spirit and the Son both proceed from the Father. In the West, the divine Trinity is determined more by the idea of the inner Trinitarian life in God; thus, the notion was carried through that the Holy Spirit goes forth from the Father and from the Son. Despite all the efforts of speculative theology, a graphic conception of the person of the Holy Spirit was not developed even later in the consciousness of the church… …The central Christian affirmations about God are condensed and focused in the classic doctrine of the Trinity, which has its ultimate foundation in the special religious experience of the Christians in the first communities. This basis of experience is older than the doctrine of the Trinity. It consisted of the fact that God came to meet Christians in a threefold figure: (1) as Creator, Lord of the history of salvation, Father, and Judge, as revealed in the Old Testament; (2) as the Lord who, in the figure of Jesus Christ, lived among human beings and was present in their midst as the “Resurrected One”; and (3) as the Holy Spirit, whom they experienced as the power of the new life, the miraculous potency of the kingdom of God. The question as to how to reconcile the encounter with God in this threefold figure with faith in the oneness of God, which was the Jews’ and Christians’ characteristic mark of distinction from paganism, agitated the piety of ancient Christendom in the deepest way. In the course of history, it also provided the strongest impetus for a speculative theology, which inspired Western metaphysics for many centuries. In the first two centuries of the Christian Era, however, a series of different answers to this question developed. The diversity in interpretation of the Trinity was conditioned especially through the understanding of the figure of Jesus Christ. According to the theology of the Gospel According to John, the divinity of Jesus Christ constituted the departure point for understanding his person and efficacy. The Gospel According to Mark, however, did not proceed from a theology of incarnation but instead understood the baptism of Jesus Christ as the adoption of the man Jesus Christ into the Sonship of God, accomplished through the descent of the Holy Spirit. The situation became further aggravated by the conceptions of the special personal character of the manifestation of God developed by way of the historical figure of Jesus Christ; the Holy Spirit was viewed not as a personal figure but rather as a power and appeared graphically only in the form of the dove and thus receded, to a large extent, in the Trinitarian speculation… …The Johannine literature in the Bible provides the first traces of the concept of Christ as the Logos, the “word” or “principle” that issues from eternity. Under the influence of subsequent Neoplatonic philosophy, this tradition became central in speculative theology. There was interest in the relationship of the “oneness” of God to the “triplicity” of divine manifestations. This question was answered through the Neoplatonic metaphysics of being. The transcendent God, who is beyond all being, all rationality, and all conceptuality, is divested of divine transcendence. In a first act of becoming self-conscious the Logos recognizes itself as the divine mind (Greek: nous), or divine world reason, which was characterized by the Neoplatonic philosopher Plotinus as the “Son” who goes forth from the Father. The next step by which the transcendent God becomes self-conscious consists in the appearance in the divine nous of the divine world, the idea of the world in its individual forms as the content of the divine consciousness. In Neoplatonic philosophy both the nous and the idea of the world are designated the hypostases of the transcendent God. Christian theology took the Neoplatonic metaphysics of substance as well as its doctrine of hypostases as the departure point for interpreting the relationship of the “Father” to the “Son.” This process stands in direct relationship with a speculative interpretation of Christology in connection with Neoplatonic Logos speculation. In transferring the Neoplatonic hypostases doctrine to the Christian interpretation of the Trinity there existed the danger that the different manifestations of God—as known by the Christian experience of faith: Father, Son, Holy Spirit—would be transformed into a hierarchy of gods graduated among themselves and thus into a polytheism. Though this danger was consciously avoided and, proceeding from a Logos Christology, the complete sameness of essence of the three manifestations of God was emphasized, there arose the danger of a relapse into a triplicity of equally ranked gods, which would displace the idea of the oneness of God. …By the 3rd century it was already apparent that all attempts to systematize the mystery of the divine Trinity with the theories of Neoplatonic hypostases metaphysics were unsatisfying and led to a series of new conflicts. The high point of these conflicts was the so-called Arian controversy. In his interpretation of the idea of God, Arius sought to maintain a formal understanding of the oneness of God. In defense of that oneness, he was obliged to dispute the sameness of essence of the Son and the Holy Spirit with God the Father, as stressed by other theologians of his day. From the outset, the controversy between both parties took place upon the common basis of the Neoplatonic concept of substance, which was foreign to the New Testament itself. It is no wonder that the continuation of the dispute on the basis of the metaphysics of substance likewise led to concepts that have no foundation in the New Testament—such as the question of the sameness of essence (homoousia) or similarity of essence (homoiousia) of the divine persons. The basic concern of Arius was and remained disputing the oneness of essence of the Son and the Holy Spirit with God the Father, in order to preserve the oneness of God. The Son, thus, became a “second God, under God the Father”—i.e., he is a divine figure begotten by God. The Son is not himself God, a creature that was willed by God, made like God by divine grace, and sent as a mediator between God and humankind. Arius’s teaching was intended to defend the idea of the oneness of the Christian concept of God against all reproaches that Christianity introduces a new, more sublime form of polytheism. This attempt to save the oneness of God led, however, to an awkward consequence. For Jesus Christ, as the divine Logos become human, moves thereby to the side of the creatures—i.e., to the side of the created world that needs redemption. How, then, should such a Christ, himself a part of the creation, be able to achieve the redemption of the world? On the whole, the Christian church rejected, as an unhappy attack upon the reality of redemption, such a formal attempt at saving the oneness of God as was undertaken by Arius. Arius’s main rival was St. Athanasius of Alexandria, for whom the point of departure was not a philosophical-speculative principle but rather the reality of redemption, the certainty of salvation. The redemption of humanity from sin and death is only then guaranteed if Christ is total God and total human being, if the complete essence of God penetrates human nature right into the deepest layer of its carnal corporeality. Only if God in the full meaning of divine essence became human in Jesus Christ is deification of man in terms of overcoming sin and death guaranteed as the resurrection of the flesh. The Athanasian view was accepted at the Council of Nicaea (325) and became orthodox Christian doctrine. St. Augustine, of decisive importance for the development of the Trinitarian doctrine in Western theology and metaphysics, coupled the doctrine of the Trinity with anthropology. Proceeding from the idea that humans are created by God according to the divine image, he attempted to explain the mystery of the Trinity by uncovering traces of the Trinity in the human personality. He went from analysis of the Trinitarian structure of the simple act of cognition to ascertainment of the Trinitarian structure both of human self-consciousness and of the act of religious contemplation in which people recognize themselves as the image of God. A second model of Trinitarian doctrine—suspected of heresy from the outset—which had effects not only in theology but also in the social metaphysics of the West as well, emanated from Joachim of Fiore. He understood the course of the history of salvation as the successive realization of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in three consecutive periods. This interpretation of the Trinity became effective as a “theology of revolution,” inasmuch as it was regarded as the theological justification of the endeavour to accelerate the arrival of the third state of the Holy Spirit through revolutionary initiative. The final dogmatic formulation of the Trinitarian doctrine in the so-called Athanasian Creed (c. 500), una substantia—tres personae (“one substance—three persons”), reached back to the formulation of Tertullian. In practical terms it meant a compromise in that it held fast to both basic ideas of Christian revelation—the oneness of God and divine self-revelation in the figures of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—without rationalizing the mystery itself. In the final analysis the point of view thereby remained definitive that the fundamental assumptions of the reality of salvation and redemption are to be retained and not sacrificed to the concern of a rational monotheism. Characteristically, in all periods of the later history of Christianity, anti-Trinitarian currents emerged when a rationalistic philosophy questioned the role of the Trinity in the history of salvation. The ideas of Arius were revived by many critics, including the so-called anti-Trinitarians of the Italian Renaissance and the humanists of the 16th century. Researchers into the life of Jesus in the 18th century, such as Hermann Reimarus and Carl Bahrdt, who portrayed Jesus as the agent of a secret enlightenment order that had set itself the goal of spreading the religion of reason in the world, were at the same time anti-Trinitarians and pioneers of the radical rationalistic criticism of dogma. The Kantian critique of the proofs of God contributed further to a devaluation of Trinitarian doctrine. In German idealism, Hegel, in the framework of his attempt to raise Christian dogma into the sphere of the conceptual, took the Trinitarian doctrine as the basis for his system of philosophy and, above all, for his interpretation of history as the absolute spirit’s becoming self-conscious. In subsequent theological work, at least in the accusations of some of its critics, the school of dialectical theology in Europe and the United States tended to reduce the doctrine of the Trinity and supplant it with a monochristism—the teaching that the figure of the Son in the life of faith will overshadow the figure of the Father and thus cause it to disappear and that the figure of the Creator and Sustainer of the world will recede behind the figure of the Redeemer… …The transcendence of God has been rediscovered by science and sociology; theology in the closing decades of the 20th century endeavoured to overcome the purely anthropological interpretation of religion and once more to discover anew its transcendent ground. Theology has consequently been confronted with the problem of Trinity in a new form, which, in view of the Christian experience of God as an experience of the presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, cannot be eliminated. From: Britannica: The Christological controversies End of excerpts

The first thing I noticed was the introductory music sounded like the Kinks' tune You Really Got Me Kinks: You Really Got Me and all I had to do was change one word in the lyrics and voila - theme song for Way Ambassadors with an homage to the founder of a harmful and controlling cult: wierwille , you really got me goin' You got me so I don't know what I'm doin' now Yeah, you really got me now You got me so I can't sleep at night Yeah, you really got me now You got me so I don't know what I'm doin' now Oh yeah, you really got me now You got me so I can't sleep at night You really got me You really got me You really got me See, don't ever set me free I always want to be by your side wierwille, you really got me now You got me so I can't sleep at night Yeah, you really got me now You got me so I don't know what I'm doin' now Oh yeah, you really got me now You got me so I can't sleep at night You really got me You really got me You really got me Ohh no See, don't ever set me free I always want to be by your side wierwille , you really got me now You got me so I can't sleep at night Yeah, you really got me now You got me so I don't know what I'm doin' now Oh yeah, you really got me now You got me so I can't sleep at night You really got me You really got me You really got me

I think some folks may have missed a key point in Skyrider’s first post. wierwille’s theatrics in PFAL were a bait-and-switch to rope people into his twisted ideology. Since wierwille’s dramatics were just a gimmick to sell his cult-dogma, it’s possible some folks got sucked in by merely reading the PFAL material even before they took the class – as some have mentioned on Grease Spot. I think wierwille’s exciting performance in the PFAL class may have served as an aperitif - a small Kool-Aid tinged drink taken before the main course of indoctrination to stimulate one's appetite for more. After graduation I was encouraged to help get another class of new students together, so I could sit through it again – this time for free - and I would get even more cult-dogma drilled into my head. double whoopee with a twist As Skyrider and other Grease Spotters have pointed out time and again – wierwille’s pseudo-Christian façade of respectability…credibility…spirituality…authority was not sustainable. And most glaring of all his pretenses was the fact that in his typical teaching topics and in his appalling lifestyle had nothing to do with Christ. In my opinion, seeing the way he treated others makes me wonder if he even believed Christ was in devoted TWI-followers.

To the best of my recollection, I think wierwille said something along the lines of that and then stressed we should read the epistles that were addressed to us. Your use of the word “Filtered” is poignant because it brings to mind how wierwille’s closing instructions were interpreted and applied. I think you nailed it in suggesting the PFAL lens was the filter. I can relate to that in a very real way by one of the first of many incidents where I was corralled into limiting my reading to PFAL material. I was so excited after the first time I took the class that I kept reading and rereading the entire Bible all the way through and would jot down questions – which I would then present to my Twig coordinator. To be fair – most of my questions were over stuff in the Old Testament and the gospels – not sure if his frequent redirecting me to review PFAL stuff was simply following “the teacher’s” instructions in session 12, or that my questions were way outside the scope of the PFAL material. The mental filtering promoted by wierwille was absolutely necessary to affect the cognitive dissonance he wanted his followers to experience. This stuff got me to recall an older article on psychological filters (see below ) – oh, and another interesting tie-in with Skyrider’s initial post about theatrics – there’s a part in the excerpt that gets into attention-grabbing tricks…and it also touches on why we buy something and how we tend to pay attention to info that reinforces our beliefs…which makes me think of the darker angle – being constantly directed to focus on PFAL material to reinforce a certain mindset…anyway here’s the article: Media Impacts - Unintended Consequences: How Media Can Affect Almost Everything – Psychological filters Amidst the grayness of this information, occasional messages stand out. Some break the pattern. They defy expectations. They spark curiosity. We pay more attention to these messages. Something about them screams “different, new, or unique”. Advertisers and advertising agencies spend a huge portion of their time and budgets trying to harness this principle. Messages that break the pattern help gain attention. They also help people remember information longer. However, dissonant messages do not necessarily hold people’s attention, nor do people automatically find them motivating or believable. If your minister came to Sunday services in a clown suit, people would notice. They would talk about it. Whether they found the minister credible would depend on whether the gimmick reinforced his message that week or was simply what advertisers call a “borrowed-attention device.”... …Most of us usually pay attention to information that reinforces our beliefs more than we do to information that challenges them. As a result, any individual has, at best, a partial and imperfect picture of external reality. We also tend to pay more attention to messages that affect us personally than we do to those that do not affect us. When we need a new car, suddenly we see car ads everywhere. We start reading them. We research safety ratings. We actively investigate. Once we have bought a new vehicle, our interest in reading more diminishes. We focus our attention on other things. From: observations: psychological filters End of excerpts

I still don’t understand. WHAT is there to discuss? I thought my post was brief and to the point. You said you had time to kill but now you don’t maybe you waste more time saying I-don’t-want-to-derail-the-thread-so-I-won’t-bring-it-up-for-the-umpteenth-time

No problem…what is there to discuss anyway? my post was about my experiences, my observations, my realizations, my opinions of my 12 years in TWI which also included WOW and the way corps training… you are entitled to your opinion of wierwille and PFAL – and so am I. let’s leave it at that.