T-Bone

By applying the screwy “keys” and crowbars of PFAL – using either con artist finesse or brute bully force - one can make any Bible verse “fit” into wierwille’s perverted and misguided theology !

Mike, I do appreciate you respecting my wishes to stop PMing me on the matter. I’m not surprised by your unintended acknowledgement of being crafty…makes me think of the Michael Scott character on the TV show The Office . He’s a boss who has good intentions, but he lacks self-awareness – he usually doesn’t realize he behaves like an a$$hole to others…Man, being a recovering a$$hole myself, I can relate! Oh, and thanks for admitting to using sneaky manipulative tactics. I rest my case. ~ ~~ ~ btw, Mike I copy all PMs into a word doc and save them on my laptop and iCloud. When I say copy – I mean I copy everything exact – both the incoming message and my outgoing response. ~ ~ ~ ~ I feel it would be inappropriate to rehash your PM propaganda on this thread – you’ve derailed it umpteen times as it is – so I have a proposal: 1. Per approval, preferences, and parameters of Grease Spot Café rules and moderators I propose to start a thread in About the Way forum along the lines of Mike’s mischaracterization of Opposing Views and other deceitful tactics If mods suggest I start it in Open, some other forum or not at all – I’m cool with that. But make no mistake I will continue to be vigilant in calling out Mike’s baloney, and will try to shoot the appropriate number of holes in the propaganda without going down a rabbit hole and derailing a thread. This whole thing might be a stupid idea and a waste of time. I’m cool with that. I waste a lot of my time thinking up stupid stuff anyway. On the other hand, a thread dedicated to this mischaracterizing issue might help avoid derailment on other threads – especially when it develops into a Mike thread rather than a thread on the absent Christ. 2. For the starter post I will copy and paste the aforementioned unsolicited PM of yours along with my response. 3. Every Grease Spotter can submit comments, replies, brief “quote couplets” from other threads as evidence to show they said blah blah – then Mike mischaracterizes it, and he says you really said or meant to say oh blah dee oh blah dah 4. My intent is not to bash Mike or have everyone pile on and play gotcha. The purpose is to clarify all sides of an argument and debate the ISSUES and not attack the person. ~ ~ ~ ~ Waiting on a response from the moderators That’s all for now

Oh goodness - This is hilarious! Reminiscent of a private message conversation I had with a certain Grease Spotter. The pm was unsolicited. Perhaps this person felt their case was too weak and frivolous to argue in an open forum. Maybe they feared humiliation or rejection by all. On the thread I was making some point along the lines of people fall for wierwille’s baloney because they don’t or won’t exercise critical thinking skills. So - boom - out of the blue - I get a pm from this person, saying they would sort of agree with me - if only I would give a little on who is really at fault in the baloney case - the victim or the Vickster. .. (side note here - have you ever seen the movie And Justice For All ? Al Pacino plays a lawyer forced to defend a guilty judge…good film - good courtroom drama and comedy!…anyway…) back to the pm: This person proceeds to expound on their own great critical thinking skills - due to nature and nurture - he says he was lucky to be raised to be a scientist by a real NASA rocket scientist ...also adding by the time he was in High School he was being groomed to be a physics professor, and he was teaching Einstein’s relativity theory to his HS peers in an after school seminar. ...When he said all that - I realized why he went on and on about preposterous stuff - - on Grease Spot somewhere I had mentioned E=mc2 and pointed out wierwille’s believing equals receiving formula by comparison was half-baked nonsense. Sometimes I am fascinated by the extent to which a desperate snake oil salesman will go in pushing their unaware wares but I don’t like to lead someone on, so I cut the conversation short (my side was short ) saying I find his whole spiel contradictory - because on the one hand he brags about his background and overdeveloped cognitive skills and on the other hand extolls the greatness of wierwille and PFAL. Basically I told him if he wanted to refute any of my points about how incompetent and dishonest wierwille was - then he should do so on the thread. Ever notice how some wierwille-fans attempt to gaslight a Grease Spotter by suggesting the person does not know how to properly do analytical thinking…or they are focusing on the sins of others…or they forgot all the good stuff in PFAL. I can spot someone being condescending from a mile away….you’d think I’d be intimidated when they’re all up close and personal in a pm unabashedly showing me how superior they are to me. But I’m not. I’m somewhat entertained - and the compassionate side of me is always interested in how to relate to someone who seems to be stuck in debilitating mindset that I was in some 36 years ago. It’s not like I really enjoy shooting holes in petrified baloney - I have this silly notion I can somehow help this person out of the hole they dug themselves into. ~ ~ ~ ~ I heard a really cool story on The West Wing - it has to do with having compassion , relating to others and helping a friend work out a problem. You’ve probably heard this somewhere else….Anyway here it goes: Fred on his way to work is walking across the street - not looking where he’s going and falls into an open manhole to a sewer being repaired. He’s down there for a long time before he hears someone walking by. He hollers “hey up there - I’m stuck down here - can you help me” . The pedestrian was a doctor - so he takes out his little pad , writes a prescription and tosses the note down to Fred. The doc moves on. A little later a priest is walking by. Fred heard his footsteps and yells “hey I’m stuck down here - help!”. The priest immediately springs into action and cautiously standing near the manhole the priest says a prayer for Fred and then moves on. Finally it’s the end of the day - and Fred hears his friend and coworker Joe whistling as he walked by. Joe liked to whistle show tunes. Fred yells up “Joe - Joe it’s me Fred - I’m stuck down here in the manhole - please help!” Without batting an eye Joe jumps down into the manhole. Fred yells “Joe you idiot - now we’re both stuck down here!” Joe replies back “yeah but not for long - I’ve fallen down here before and I know the way out”. What an entertaining thread. Like I don’t understand what absent means.

Yeah - I think you’ve got something there…where I screwed up while back in TWI was having the PFAL belief system running in the back of my mind - that gave “anything wierwille” unconditional acceptance…and any other knowledge, observations, or experiences not compatible with wierwille’s ideology was rejected.

This is a little complicated to explain. And it’s just me thinking out loud. I have more questions than answers. As far as I know I’m a Trinitarian - not because I mindlessly subscribe to some formula - but because certain passages - whether in the immediate context or correlated to the same idea mentioned elsewhere - seem to suggest there’s an ongoing interaction of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Is it necessary to breakdown who does what, when and how? I was reviewing a book I mentioned earlier (The Trivialization of God by David McCullough) and that got me to reflect on my mindset in TWI. McCullough talked about physicist Sir Isaac Newton being a religious man believed he was discovering laws established by the Creator. Many devout students of creation still continue with that conviction. McCullough says the consequence - intended or not has been the crowding out of the mysterious in favor of the factual - a flattening of transcendence into the measurable data of immanence - a forced retirement of God to a benign but wholly unnecessary corner of the universe. In place of God, we now have control and explanation. When results can be repeated with predictable regularity, theories graduate into laws. Explanation supplies the know-how for further control. As our mastery increases God seems less and less necessary. I have an annoying habit of playing “that actor looks like/voice sounds like/ is that so-and-so ?” while my wife and I are watching a commercial, TV show or movie. Drives her nuts! …anyway I found myself relating this stuff from the Trivialization book to this absent Christ thread and more broadly to wierwille’s tendencies to put God in a box, inform followers what God , Christ or The Holy Spirit can or cannot do, and promote a “law of believing” as a means of controlling reality. Of course there’s distinct differences in real science that discovers and analyzes stuff in the physical realm - regardless if they believe in a higher power or not - and religious con artists who spout dubious speculations and try to sell people on magical thinking. But the one similarity I see between real science and wierwille’s pseudoscience is that a practitioner of either “discipline” does not need God in the pursuit…in a similar vein wierwille’s Christ is assigned to a chair next to God way out there somewhere - His presence, His lordship, His power is seen as not needed since “the Word takes the place of the absent Christ.” Other ripples in my stream of consciousness post - are a suspicion That wierwille may have had an intense desire to have followers see him as the high priest who has God’s ear - and wondering if his Trinity-bashing was a smoke and mirrors trick to misdirect our curiosity…our awareness away from God the Father, Christ and The Holy Spirit and how they work together in our lives. I’m not promoting the Trinity. I don’t get off on dictating to others how they should think of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit (or holy spirit if you prefer). I love systematic theology and reading the Bible in various translations and I easily fall back into my old TWI-habit of fixating on knowledge more than practice…I know what to do…wait until winter and on a heavy snow fall day I’ll kick back in my recliner and imagine God telling me I’ll learn more about the risen Christ just like they did in the first century if I will just get off my lazy duff and follow my Lord. Keep it simple stupid. Stupid is my middle name . Well it’s my other middle name…you realize Hyphen is my middle name too.

I said “But if there is a higher power…if this is a moral universe…I hope things ultimately work out for all involved…whatever that means” I thought I was clear on my supposition. There’s several theories on how the Bible is inspired. I’ve been open about leaning toward limited inspiration – which reflects an honest assessment of divine-human co-authored book…and it seems obvious you have your father-in-the-Word’s disdain for any environment or community that is concerned with the pursuit of research, education, and scholarship. There’s two reasons I don’t want to look at your 10 year collection of Bible blah blah blah over on the other NT canon thread: 1. It’s on another thread…geez Louise I just talked about that So, you go over there and post your gripe where it belongs on the appropriate thread, mister! 2. Because you seem to follow in the deceptive and nonsensical footsteps of your father-in-the-Word, your postulations are also contradictory and nonsensical and not worth my time. You’re actually your own worst enemy for defending your position and exemplify the spirit of wierwille by whitewashing his incompetence and lack of integrity – it seems neither him nor you are able to appreciate the distinction between what is an honest or dishonest handling of the Bible. You are self-sabotaging. You have no credibility. “Of course, if the Trinity were “true” then Jesus would have an omnipresence that God has, and the idea of absent, or sent away, wouldn’t make sense.” I told you to look into transcendence and immanence – because – duh – they’re divine attributes of Jesus Christ gosh sometimes you are so silly …and…uhm…nice try on doing some Trinity-bashing on this absent Christ thread… geez Louise how many times do I have to tell you? Take it over to the appropriate thread.

Ohmmmlet you all settle this the biblical way There’s nothing henorable about being unequally yoked we'll hold a competitive 2-man scramble. Everyone please set a good eggzample of sportsmanship Let’s have a single score keeper – one moderator is an oeuf Embryos don’t count unless your state says they do game ends in a tie when both challengers are completely covered in eggs

Oh yeah – I meant to remind you of something regarding your “unravel” comment here and by the way - I refute your claim that wierwille understood the Holy Spirit (or if you prefer holy spirit ) based on the depraved lifestyle he so brazenly exhibited to the way corps. And far be it from me to even attempt to unravel, explain, or solve the mystery of the Trinity. In John 16 Jesus talked about the mysterious and unfathomable innerworkings of the Trinity in the life of each believer. I don’t pretend to fully understand it. And if you would have read my 67 posts and counting on that Trinity thread - you would see that I have not attempted to explain, unravel, defend, or solve the mystery of the Trinity. All I have attempted to do was show from Scripture the dynamic interrelationship of the Trinity in each believer’s life – whether we are fully aware of it or not. And don’t pull that lazy-a$$ baloney time waster tactic you’re so fond of using by acting so helpless and clueless “can you help me find …that thread…my old post on that…wierwille’s lost teaching of whatever…my manifesto…blah blah blah” like you pulled at least twice before when asking where the idiom of permission thread is...if the La-Z-Boy recliner is comfy then sit in it Mike, are you five years old? Do you think I’m five years old? Well…don’t answer that! Sometimes my wife says I act like I'm five years old...but I’m quick to remind her I’m 5 and 3/4 going on 6 … but that’s beside the point. If you want to take a jab at me over being a Trinitarian – please, please, please do so on that Trinity thread I told you about earlier. And for God the Father’s sake find the right thread – don’t pull that manipulative stalling baloney of playing stupid and “accidentally” posting on some thread about the 2nd wave of PFAL has already started but you meant to post it on the Trinity thread...you know good and well what thread it is. If you’re so spiritually sharp and savvy from dedicating so much time and effort into mastering PFAL – then surely following this simple request of mine should be no big deal. have a nice day

What a coincidence – wierwille believed that too - are you guys related or something? A moral universe implies that we live in a basically spiritual universe that is somehow ordered by a higher power, by invisible feelings of good and bad, a 'cosmic order' reminiscent of the early Greeks that underpins and motivates our actions. Or a 'moral force' that means our actions must have definite effects which we carry with us. In this respect its meaning comes close to the Hindu concept of Karma. Those who reject this idea tend to believe that the universe is just physical, has no spiritual component at all, that events are random and have no deeper meaning or purpose, and that there can be no consequences of any kind to our actions and thus that we live in an amoral or nihilistic universe from: Wikipedia: moral universe while the judge is away (absent ) the sexual predators will play

footprints in the snow job = the impression left by a con artist (wierwille) who was able to conceal his real motives Christ’s “invisibility” in wierwille’s theology = the state of being ignored or not taken into consideration

Hey all, found this excerpt while I am working on a post for the absent Christ thread…here it is – the smoking gun – wierwille’s attempting to subvert the NT canon: In the orange PFAL book in the chapter To Whom The Word is Written, page 210 says One of the greatest errors in the translation of the Bible was placing the four Gospels in the New Testament. The Gospels logically belong in the Old Testament. Jesus came to Israel, His own people. He was the prophet who fulfilled the law of the Old Testament.; therefore, the Gospels complete the Old Testament.

you're all talk Mike

The feeling of pity is mutual – I’m sorry your wierwille-infatuation and stubbornness to the truth has imprisoned your heart in a self-righteous cell. And you can keep pushing that absent-judge-bull$hit all you want if it helps you while away the time in self-imposed solitary confinement. I live by 2 simple rules – love God and love my neighbor as myself. If I croak tonight – it would be sad cuz I’m only on season 3 of The West Wing. But if there is a higher power…if this is a moral universe…I hope things ultimately work out for all involved…whatever that means. goodbye world (I remember Ted says that at the end of his song )

wierwille curricula = a cult-leader’s subjects comprising a course of study to indoctrinate followers so that they shall go forth as snake oil sales reps in areas of concern, interest and need deemed thus by money grubbing cult-leaders. Program titles may vary by name - PFAL, Advanced Class, WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps, etc., but it’s still the same old $hit - different name.Tuition cost = varies with how much you buy into the $hit. ~ ~ ~ ~ Grease Spot curricula = cult-survivors sharing experiences and insight which consists of developing cognitive skills and unpacking the mental baggage of cult indoctrination. Tuition cost = free - but donations of any amount are appreciated and it doesn’t hurt to buy the mods a cup of coffee occasionally.

I’m watching the Jan 6th hearing…and peeking in on Grease Spot…some funny parallels Ever notice how some wierwille-fans try to refute wierwille’s criminality despite the damning evidence.

You don’t understand something- the invisible man character of HG Wells’ story could be physically present right next to you but you wouldn’t know it. He would NOT be absent from your presence- only visually undetectable by you or anyone else….geez Mike, what a dumb thing for you to say.

First - I’m not illegitimate - my parents were legally married second - I’m calling your bluff - an honest declaration of what greater works than Jesus YOU have done will not be rejected

That’s the greatest secret in way-world today - the CONTENT of PFAL is a misdirection - it distracts one’s attention to what the Scriptures state.

That’s the way wierwille portrayed Jesus

I have my doubts about your teacher’s credentials and intent

Yup - young and naive - cognitive skills undeveloped - the perfect candidate for cult indoctrination

I’ve noticed wierwille-fans tend to ignore, stall and dodge the legitimate challenge of “tell us about the greater works of Jesus Christ that they have done” . Their failure to rise to the challenge may be due to their deference to wierwille’s debilitating habit of procrastination and talking the walk but not actually walking the walk. It’s like these folks watched Perry Mason so much they think they could pass a bar exam. Uhm… do they know Raymond Burr was not a real lawyer?

In the Bible - but first remove those wierwille colored glasses

Your request is irrelevant

I know of wierwille’s success in conniving people . I also know all too well of his failures as a pathological liar, thief, plagiarist, drunkard, and sexual predator - he couldn’t hide those things from the corps.