T-Bone
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14 contemptible reasons AND COUNTING why PFAL sucks: Greatest secret in the world - manipulative to believe it his way John 10:10 proof text to promote greed an materialism Promotes fundamentalism Promotes a problematic theory - every word is inspired of God Pits 5 senses against his definition of faith and revelation Promotes law of believing and magical thinking; believing = receiving Marginalizes God - dictates what He can and cannot do Promotes an absent Christ. Ignores the transcendence and immanence of Christ. He dictates what Christ can an cannot do. He teaches “The Word” takes the place of the absent Christ Assumed he could distribute the Holy Spirit from a video tape. He promoted counterfeit SIT He taught a false trichotomy of man - body, soul and spirit He did not understand the original languages of the Bible Promotes erroneous theory of how to get back to the original text
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Textual criticism is a fascinating discipline!Textual criticism
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Found list of criteria for NT canon selection on various sites: Notes 3 criteria: 1 apostolic origin, 2 recognition by the earliest Churches, 3 agreement with the doctrine the apostles wrote or taught elsewhere From: https://explorethebible.lifeway.com/blog/adults/how-did-we-get-the-new-testament-canon/ ~~~~ 1Written by recognized prophet or apostle 2 Written by those associated with recognized apostle or prophet 3 Truthfulness - see Deut. 18: 20-22 4 Faithfulness to previously accepted canonical manuscripts 5Confirmed by Christ, apostle, prophet see Luke 24:24-27, 44; II Pet 3:16; From; https://www.biblicaltraining.org/blog/curious-christian/7-10-2012/what-criteria-were-used-determine-canon-scripture ~~~~ Why the need for canonicity? Latin word “ Canon” meant measuring stick. In 1st century no great need for canon to be defined - because apostles were divinely appointed . The rise of heresies occasioned the need to define a canon. During times of intermittent persecution there was risk of scriptures being confiscated. As 2nd century wore on - death of original apostles with their oral teachings would be lost. Thus the early Christians recognized the need to define canon of scripture for later generations to know what was and what was not apostolic doctrine. From: https://www.lifeway.com/en/articles/bible-study-establishing-new-testament-canon
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Well you gotta start somewhere…now we’re getting into the hidden history of the farthing…let’s break that down fart + hing Second part sounds like cha-ching- someone says something dumb I fart - cha-ching - and say here’s a penny for your thoughts.
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Some people just don’t know any beta
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That’s uncanny - you have a sixth cents
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Guilty by association - old subway tokens might be mistaken for pennies…and that’s just as scary cuz you don’t know where that subway token has been… sorry So_crates I couldn’t resist a good setup …back to the regularly scheduled program
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Thanks for your 2 cents - I feel safe accepting it from YOU cuz I know that it doesn’t come from a $hitty place.
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Awesome ! Thank you! Good reason to ignore the 2 cents some folks offer…you never know where that 2 cents has been…it just takes cents knowledge . Thanks again Nathan - what a funny and enlightening video!
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Mike ???????????? WTF ? I guess I was mistaken about our recent conversation. I thought WE were having a mini-breakthrough talking TO each other rather than talking PAST each other. Maybe you don’t realize this but to me - to ME, Mike you come off insulting and condescending almost every time I OPEN myself up TO YOU - I make MYSELF VULNERABLE TO YOU, by admitting how naive I was for believing the nonsense of PFAL or deciding to go in the corps . And how do YOU respond? You go on and on about how you were so much smarter than me because you thoroughly analyzed stuff before buying into it. You were smarter than me to not go in the corps. You’re lucky I am communicating to you via a post and not by phone or Zoom. It’s a little easier to practice some self-restraint this way - cuz once I fire off a post it might be harder to recall that bullet. Of this was live I’d probably be cussing up a storm - and then I’d feel bad for attacking you. But you know what ? I’m gonna blow this off with a new provisio of talking either AT or PAST you. Because YOU have taken advantage of my upfront and honest way of trying to communicate with YOU - I will now require fruit that PROVES you are repentant and want reconciliation. Don’t worry I’ll know it when I see it. On the slim chance that you are unaware of how hypocritical and condescending you are or that you are so deluded that you really think you thoroughly analyzed PFAL before buying into it 100% - then YOU will have to solve that problem YOURSELF! I’m no therapist or expert on anything so I can’t diagnose you and can’t help fix you. I’m the coworker - the 3rd person that comes along in the guy who fell down in the manhole story I heard on The West Wing. I HUMBLED MYSELF to YOU by relating I fell for wierwille’s con in the worst way - I REPEATEDLY jumped down into that cult-indoctrinated manhole mindset you’ve fallen into years ago and strived to show you the way out since I’m very familiar with the escape routes. And how do you respond ? This has been YOUR response . YOUR response! This has been YOUR response almost every time: “you idiot, why did you come down here?!?! It’s great down here. I’m having the time of my life!” I have a “policy” of not writing people off. I would love to break my own policy - but instead a genuine two-way communication is being held in abeyance.
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Ha! You got me thinking ! it would have been nice if Jesus have a little more info about himself Jesus international man of mystery
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Remember in PFAL class wierwille says Tell me what you think of Jesus and I’ll tell you how far you’re going to go spiritually. One could argue for the evangelizing value of that. And maybe that’s all he meant at the time. Sometimes I get into wondering how a cult-leader develops. Did the “tell me what you think of Jesus” question morph into galvanizing and polarizing strategies? In other words, do you believe in Jesus the way I do? If so, then you’re cool - you belong in my group. If not - you could be possessed -cuz there’s no way you can believe in the divinity of Christ and NOT be possessed. If you look at what different people said of Jesus in the Gospels and epistles you’ll find a wide variety of impressions. It’s cool to ask questions like “what do you think of Jesus?”. But it should be an open question. I think it’s manipulative and a sucker punch if someone is setting me up to condemn me for thinking of Jesus in a different way than they do.
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PFAL asked questions- that’s good - but dictated what the answers should be - that’s not so good. All nonsense and plagiarized material aside , if PFAL was presented as one way or some different ways of exploring the Bible it probably would have been a little helpful. Some of the criteria for development of the NT canon was the internal evidence of doctrinal consistency and the implications of divine inspiration: 1 is fairly easy to determine - one just has to compare the assortment of manuscripts and see if there is harmony across the board on a given topic. For example, if all docs address Jesus Christ being the end of the law - what about this one manuscript that mentions some sin offerings are still required? That would be a red flag to me on that one doc - in other words, probably disqualified from being in canon. ~~~~ 2 takes a little more thought. It’s been discussed earlier that there’s another aspect of assuming God inspired the writers - the written words of God are subsumed under the big umbrella of God’s attributes - like omniscience and omnipotence. Here’s one of my litmus tests for theory and practice of hermeneutics. You can also file this under one of the many ways to shoot holes in Bullinger/ wierwille 4 crucified baloney. If God already knew that some time way in the future people would misunderstand how many were crucified with Jesus - if it was really that important then why didn’t He just plainly say in each Gospel or in at least one of them that there were 4 others crucified with Jesus. If it was that crucial to the case for arguing the death of Jesus - Don’t you think God in His foreknowledge would have headed that confusion off at the pass by locking in the number of those crucified? Think about the case for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I read a great book with that title that gets into looking at the Gospel record as an historian or lawyer would - and then you get into probabilities and proximity to event and witnesses- both hostile and friendly. A hostile witness would be someone who does NOT believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Along the lines of the January 6th committee the record notes certain individuals who opposed Jesus conspired to say Jesus’ disciples stole His body from the tomb. Here I am about 2 thousand years after the facts of what actually happened. What do I make of the differences and minor conflicts in the Gospel records? Heteros or allos …thief or evil doer ? Well, different eye witnesses can relate different details…certain things may be out of sequence…even high tech CSI type tv shows allow for discrepancies in testimony of witnesses cuz no one is a freakin’ digital recorder! But all Gospels do agree on Jesus’ resurrection.
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I don’t get what you see as high stakes. What high stakes? What does leadership preoccupied with imbalance mean? Imbalance of what? Maybe that leadership needs to get real jobs - and quit lording it over people.
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Or was it confusing and discouraging because it didn’t jive with PFAL? I don’t see how looking for the obvious meaning of the text would be confusing and discouraging. It should be encouraging that a simple reading of the Bible should be do enjoyable and enlightening. what I think is confusing and discouraging is when wierwille / Bullinger using - I guess your bottom up approach come up with 4 crucified! What nonsense.. that’s why I have no confidence in wierwille and Bullinger’s work. I feel like they’re trying to pull something half the time. They have credibility issues
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Not sure what your hesitancy is about- if you have a chance to read FF Bruce’s books on NT docs you’d get a better idea of textual criticism- because they have the data and evidence to observe - the existing ancient manuscripts and other ancient texts by leaders quoting from them - I don’t understand why you doubt this process- textual research is not trying to create scripture in a lab - they’re examining the ancient docs and comparing copies - to see if a word was transposed - and like I shared in a post quoting Bruce’s works - small errors of copying were negligible and so no impact to basic tenets. I don’t understand what your concern is
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Of course the writers must have realized it was inspiration. You make it sound like the writers decided the canon. They probably didn’t envision the whole picture ( sometime in the future there will be a book where these are all compiled together). But knowing they were sacred texts there probably were steps to preserve and protect them - trusting God would oversee the project - spiritual continuity
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Yeah - you’re repeating the concepts wierwille taught… I don’t think they’re valid because humans still retain the image and likeness of God after the fall though it’s now tarnished…I don’t see measured out concept in scripture. I don’t see where you can be do definitive on this topic when it’s not given in scripture.
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Good questions.
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Ok thanks for an honest response
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Leave it to you to snag me back in time. Brother can you spare some Postum ? That was some weird coffee substitute- not even a challenging counterfeit
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Ok - so just good old Bible study and no technical references like lexicons and interlinears nothing wrong with that. That simple approach comprises the bulk of my study efforts. I use Bible resources to drill down deep for certain pet projects
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I can see that. That’s what I was addressing earlier about internal evidence- those who developed the canon believed the manuscripts were God-inspired and also checked to see if there was doctrinal coherency across the manuscripts, besides verifying apostolic source - that it came from an apostle
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Ok cool. Now this kind of talk is good. Honestly Mike I don’t mean to give you a hard time about everything - but I start having lots of questions and doubts when I sense someone is spouting off what they think are definitive answers but I can tell they don’t know any more than I do. For instance - what does “spirit upon “ mean? That’s not explained in the Bible.
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yikes -use your head! Raw meat may contain harmful bacteria including Salmonella, Listeria, Campylobacter and E. coli that can cause food poisoning. These bacteria are destroyed when meat is correctly cooked. Always pay attention to any public service announcements - like recalls on raw PFAL and other plagiarized stuff. Faux fluff is probably ok. Jiffy might be iffy. And I’d avoid. Almost Pizza if I were you.
