T-Bone

16. Endless after class debates on how to get born again of the wrong seed.

15. Coffee at the Advanced Class is miraculously stretched beyond belief.

14. When in use wierwille’s favorite porn video is missing from the Advanced Class junk table (that’ might be a good thing - depends on how you look at it )

13. Found out another unforgivable sin is tripping out of the ministry

12. Never answered my question “how many devil spirits can party in the motor coach? “

11. It’s a lot harder to get away with napping in a live Advanced Class than in a PFAL class on Betamax tape…can’t say much more…the ushers are around…you’re not paranoid if “group leadership “ really are watching you.

10. What could be more underwhelming than a cult-leader who lost the battle with his own inner demons telling me how to combat devil spirits

In PFAL, drawing on the concept of big “X”s and little “x”s wierwille put forth the argument that in God’s eyes all sin is the same. This is narrow reasoning – meaning it is limited in size or scope. It fails to take into account unrepentant sin, presumptuous sin and the consequences of sin. I assume God has at least the same sense of justice as humans – if not more so. I believe we’re all made in God’s image and likeness – and I think we find in most civilized countries some consensus on how to handle “sin” - or “crime”. However, you define it a sin is a sin, and a crime is a crime. But some sins/crimes have more serious consequences than others. In America we distinguish between a misdemeanor – which is a lesser criminal act punished less severely – compared to a felony. The judicial system in the Old Testament spoke of an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth – it’s along the same lines of expressing reciprocal judgement – that the injured person is compensated fairly – and similarly governing authorities usually decree the punishment is to fit the crime. I tend to think – considering eternity – the degree of punishment is directly proportional to the degree of severity of the sin. If this were not so, then passages like Matthew 11: 20-24 Luke 17:1-4 do not make much sense and Jesus must have been bluffing about people getting what they deserve. In Matthew 7: 15-24 we are instructed to look at the fruit – Jesus spoke of these religious charlatans as a diseased tree that bears bad fruit, and every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Again, this is in reference to a future judgement. But for the here and now, He did NOT say the diseased tree should be healed, salvaged, or reformed. But all matters of judging someone’s heart aside – what if these religious charlatans are committing criminal acts in the here and now? In America we are governed by the rule of law. No one is above the law. wierwille, LCM and others acted with impunity. They were a law unto themselves. LCM got caught, whereas wierwille did not. We don’t live in a perfect world. Justice isn’t always served. With the dispensational theology in TWI, I think there was a tendency for these religious charlatans who got away with murder to think in terms of justice postponed or it’s the age of Grace or they find some rationalization to justify themselves…maybe there’s just something about self-deception or a seared conscience that sabotaged their self-awareness. If you think about the highest priorities as being to love God and neighbor than one practical application of that is to put reconciliation even before religious service – this is dictated in Matthew 5: 23, 24 . I don’t know what goes on in the hearts of cult-leaders – and grace and mercy are not my department anyway. I like the simple things – immorality in the church? Get rid of it before it defiles the whole church I Corinthians 5 . What’s so hard to understand about that? Let "grace" and "mercy" for sexual predators sweep it all under the carpet? Well…in my opinion that’s one of the big problems in TWI. By big I mean I Cor. 5 big - it's defiled the whole organization! Grease Spot Café tells the other side of the story. At least some of this stuff is coming to light. I’m a guy. I was never sexually molested by a cult-leader. I never knew they did that stuff until I came to Grease Spot. It sickens me to hear about it – but it explains a lot of why they pushed “the freedom we have in Christ…anything done in the love of God is okay…all the women in the kingdom belonged to king David...the spiritually mature can handle things that would freak out believers still wet behind the ears.”

Yes ! He's my hero!!!!! thanks for that video Rocky! "this can't go on eternally..."

9. Empty words and fake love is suckage squared. Tongues and prophesy can be faked. The “love of God” can be defined anyway a pseudo-Christian cult-leader wants to define it. Under the pretext of preparing the way corps for counseling wierwille showed us his favorite porn video. Perhaps he sensed how shocked and offended many of us were - so he says afterwards “Anything done in the love of God is okay.” 2 wrongs don’t make a right. In light of I Corinthians 13 , it’s like singing off-key the Beatles’ song “All You Need is Love” accompanied by an out-of-tune dinky Casio keyboard while kicking your sick dog in the gut. number 9…number 9…number 9 Oh blah dee lo Shonta the con goes on

And in much broader concerns – why do I have to pay for classes that teach how to do or improve on “my operation of the holy spirit” ? There’s 3 bigger issues in this. 1. Paying for worthless information. I don’t find instances in the Bible where someone was directed to… authorized to do…or even just did it without God’s approval – where they charged people to learn how to interpret the Scriptures…or where someone is charging people in the distribution of the holy spirit/manifestations of the spirit…where someone is charging people to teach them how to speak in tongues, interpret tongues, prophesy…I don’t find accounts of someone charging people to teach them the keys to walking by the spirit…creating a leadership training program like the way corps that I was led to believe was operated out of an accredited college…All in all, I paid for worthless information! ~ ~ ~ ~ 2. False assumption that people must be taught how to use a spiritual ability…I bet some PFAL/TIP/Advanced Class devotees will probably make a smug reference to Jesus teaching His disciples how to cast out devil spirits. But look at Mark 9 14 And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. 15 Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. 16 And He asked the scribes, “What are you discussing with them?” 17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So, I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.” 19 He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I [c]bear with you? Bring him to Me.” 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth. 21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.” 24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” 25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. 28 And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” 29 So He said to them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.” I don’t know what the problems were here, the disciples not being able to cast out the devil spirit – but I would like to take a stab at speculating based on the backstory of the disciples: 12 They went out and preached that people should repent. 13 They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them. Mark 6:12, 13 Perhaps the disciples were overconfident from their earlier successes (in Mark 6) – maybe being so fascinated with "their very own" God-given abilities, they failed to keep in mind the source of their “divine” power – God! With Jesus’ saying this kind can come out only by prayer and fasting I tend to think Jesus was telling them how to recover from being “off their game” – by prayer which focuses on God – and fasting which in neglecting the physical needs of one’s body is an exercise in self-control to give God the highest priority…but that’s just my opinion – I could be wrong. ~ ~ ~ ~ 3.God helps us even if we feel we are stranded in unbelief. God is never limited by our belief/unbelief ...Notice the man’s dialog with Jesus: So, they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth. Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?” “From childhood,” he answered. “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.” “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.” Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” Note – the father asked Jesus to help him overcome his unbelief. What did Jesus do? Did Jesus say “Here’s a green card – sign up for my class that teaches you how to believe better.” ? No – there was no time to dilly dally – a crowd was rubbernecking on what looked like a train wreck about to happen – basically Jesus stepped up to the plate and said I’ve got this, and He commanded the devil spirit to come out. The moral of the story is we don’t need wierwille’s stinking sucky classes.

Exactly! Another one of those contradictory premises Maybe in a similar vein is wierwille’s “the greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the revealed word and will of God” uhm…duh it’s no secret – seeing how the Bible is considered to be of central importance to Christianity, Judaism, Samaritanism, and many other religions…maybe living a life of trying to follow the Bible as the revealed word and will of God was something unknown to wierwille. wierwille -what a con artist – he was like the Wizard of Oz…remember this line in America’s song Tin Man: But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have

7. Lack of standards for teaching discerning of spirits: incompetent minister-in-training personnel who don’t know how to interpret the E-meter readings. Oops scratch that – sometimes I get my cults mixed up. 7. wierwille’s book “The New Dianetics Church – the Modern Mathematical Exactness and Scientific Precision of Cognitive Dissonance” is nothing but a combination of personal inexperience, principles of Gnosticism, spiritualism and devil may care attitude. Oops scratch that too – sometimes I get my cult propaganda mixed up Once I was expelled for chanting “Hubba Hubba” at an excelor’s session. So, I went across the street and yelled “Lo Shonta” at a Scientology service.

Yeah I can’t remember who suggested I do that - might have been the lady that signed me up for PFAL. I’ve heard of other people doing that

6. Overuse of “and know my children…” at the beginning of every prophesy.

5. Lack of truth in advertising for Advanced Class. They should include all of wierwille’s baloney on the Advanced Class junk table and give students the option to take home one item of their own choosing: a cross, wooden stake, lucky rabbit’s foot , magic 8 ball, Ouija board, tinfoil pyramid hat, a$$-pennies, dowsing rod from the way tree, garlic, kryptonite, the lost ark, a pot of fool’s gold, Elvis’ jacket, a black cat, a white knight or a partridge in a pear tree.

4. Practicing “tongues” by keying off license plates is problematic A. Encourages tailgating and increases the chances of rear ending someone while trying to get a good read on their plate B. Attorneys shy away from fender bender cases when all the defendant can say under oath is “Lo Shonta “ C. Keying off the license plate “SIT-666” means you can go directly to the looney bin - and do not get to “receive “ the abundant sharing of folks’ hard earned money. (true confessions- I used to do this a lot )

Ha you’ve noticed my comedic anomaly- before I responded to Nathan, I looked up definition of ectoplasm and read it was a supernatural viscous substance… you know me and my twisted mind - I thought vicious was a better fit since a lot of wierwille’s baloney is deliberately cruel and violent.

I think you’re getting ahead of yourself. PFAL is a microcosm of the ectoplasm handled in the Advanced Class. For those who’s memory is held in abeyance, Ectoplasm is that super-stupid-naturally vicious baloney that “the teacher” exudes profusely- I mean he’s got it coming out of both ends! Now if you could get a minimum of 7 Grease Spotters to sign up for the Advanced Thread on Why the Advanced Class Sucks we could run both threads concurrently AND at the same time. I’ll be Lo Shonta-ing like a house afire so everyone bring babes, fruit and a newly minted person (i.e. clone) to Twig. Go the post has ended…thanks be to collateral damage!

I wish I studied this stuff more…from what little I remember of TWI’s teaching on this – it seemed a little muddy on which way to look at it – as far as what’s it in reference to faith or believing…what little I’ve looked into after I left – I don’t really get into if it’s talking about believing or faith…rather I try to figure out “the direction” of faith (I'm just using the idea of religious faith - and as a sidenote see how I understand commonplace believing and religious faith on another thread - here ....caution take with a grain of salt cuz I'm not 100 % sure of this ) whether it’s faith toward Christ or something we receive from Him…also not sure I understand the question - I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway .... we clear as mud, now? ok good! but throwing caution to the wind I’ve got the verses you referenced below and interlinear of key verse and a couple of hyperlinks on subjective and objective genitive…what I got out of them is it’s determined by context – which requires some thought on the part of the reader to figure out which way it should go…maybe similar to what you said – it depends on a theological thought process (in other words, it's assumed the reader has a general idea of the key concepts as addressed in all Scriptures on the same topic) ...anyway…here tis: 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3: 21-26 Bible Hub: interlinear of Romans 3:24 (to navigate forward a verse or backward to previous verse on Bible Hub interlinear - just click on the left or right arrows) ~ ~ ~ ~ 15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So, we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:15, 16 Bible Hub: interlinear Galatians 2:16 ~ ~ ~ ~ Subjective and Objective Genitive. Nouns that express verbal notions, often nouns made from verbs and verbals, may indicate who the subject or the object, or both, of the verbal notion is by placing them in the genitive. Sometimes the verbal relationship is not immediately apparent. Consider: severitatis invidiae = "hatred that arises from your severeness" or, more obviously an objective genitive: "hatred of your severeness." There is no difference in form between the subjective and the objective genitive. Only context can make a final determination. However, there are norms. First, word order: the objective genitive usually comes first. This is only a guide, however, since word order may always be changed for emphasis. Second, adjectival forms are preferred for the subjective genitive, presumably because the subject of an action modifies the action more directly than the object. Consider even the English: "my love for you." Here the possessive pronoun, "my," indicates who is the subject of the (hidden) verb "love": "I love you." Similarly, "divine love" specifies the God or gods as the one(s) who love. from: Classics OSU edu: genitive case ~ ~ ~ ~ The difference between the subjective and objective genitive is important for languages, like Greek and Latin, in which the genitive or possessive case has multiple functions. But although little attention is paid to it in a language like English which has lost its nominal cases, this distinction is highly important also in it. The objective genitive answers the question ‘of what?’ For example, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as an objective genitive, answers the question, ‘the experience of what?’. Here the child is the object of the experience. The subjective genitive, on the other hand, answers the question ‘whose?’, ‘belonging to whom?’ Hence, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as a subjective genitive, answers the question, ‘experience of whom?’, ‘whose experience?’ Here the child is the subject of the experience. from: Mcluhan: objective and subjective genitives

Yeah George, that’s exactly how I understood the quote…and it inspired me to reassess how I come off to people...especially in regard to my presence on Grease Spot. My usual spiel tends to be didactic and I’m tired of listening to myself trying to sound like I know what I’m talking about it takes a lot more work to refine thoughts down to what I feel is important to me and the heck with trying to “teach” others. Another thing that has gotten me to reexamine how I communicate, is lately I’ve been drafting a post in notes on my iPhone instead of using a computer…maybe inspired in part by Penworks new book From the Porch to the Page: A Guidebook for the Writing Life . She talks about the difference in composing, expressing and the flow of it all when writing by hand instead of using a word processor. I’m trying that out in a few of my writing projects – using the old composition notebook - - don’t be alarmed it’s just a hobby and I wouldn’t dream of inflicting such beeswax on the unsuspecting public. Now I don’t do that for Grease Spot drafts – but using my iPhone notes is a similar experience in that I speed up the idea-to-the-page process by not getting bogged down in looking up the perfect word or overexplaining something (like I’m doing now ). It really just helps me organize my thoughts in a simple way – and seems to streamline what I want to say…thanks for your input – I really appreciate it!

54. Because there have been no case studies of the long-term effects of exposure to the radiation from cathode ray tube TV monitors with PFAL students sitting at close range to the screen for approximately 3 hours. Geeky footnote here and here

52. Promises to serve “The Word” on a silver platter, but performs a song and dance of turd-like matter

51. Exemplifies the pseudo-rhetorical maneuver of answering a question with a question. Sometimes referred to as the old dodge-and-run game.

Hi Rocky, It’s taken me awhile to process all this. Please accept my sincere apology. I had an epiphany recently – and shared about it on another thread – here - …I often forget I’m a recovering a$$-hole and sometimes I fall off the wagon when I allow certain buttons to get pushed. I appreciate the clarity, thoughtfulness, new ideas, and friendly boldness you bring to Grease Spot. My new strategy is to ignore the temptation. Sometimes after a fight – when we’ve declared a cease fire – my wife and I will exchange these words of elegant tolerance “thanks for putting up with me”. That’s my message to you and other Grease Spotters.