T-Bone

M:You folks seem to have a anti-idol being constantly manufactured that is very fragile, and all it takes is one thankful PFAL grad to post a few key ideas about the value of PFAL, and all chaos breaks loose. T: let me unscramble the puzzle for those playing along in the Grease Spot Café Home Edition: some folks have very fragile idols named wierwille and PFAL, and sometimes it just takes one Grease Spotter making a valid criticism of wierwille or PFAL and “booms-quick” the house of cards belief system in their heads - and presented in a post - falls into chaotic ruin. M: Instead of silencing me or shuffling me off to a closet, why not look at your own house and see if you are throwing out the PFAL baby with the bathwater. T: I have yet to see anyone silencing you or shuffling you off to a closet. Perhaps you say this stuff out of frustration for shooting yourself in the foot with a water gun filled with dirty bathwater M: You once got all caught up and zealous for a movement that turned from mindful to mindless. T: no charge for me to again unscramble the puzzle for those playing along in the Grease Spot Café Home Edition: This is classic Mike’s reverse-I’m-rubber-you’re-glue-countermeasure – similar to the triple-dog-dare-you that skips the interim double-dog-dare-you protocol…Mike thoughtlessly accuses others of being thoughtless when they have given him every chance to clarify things and explain himself. It's a response to a perceived insult, this maneuver is usually only used by children. M: So ask yourselves, how immune are you to getting mindlessly caught up in something, today, that turns from mindful to mindless? T: I’ve had 4 shots of Moderna. M: If you were building a mindful model of what went wrong at TWI, it would not collapse at my mere posting. T: oh, we’re back to mental constructs are we? You must enjoy playing 52 card pick-up – cuz your house of cards propaganda - which is in your head and reflected in your posts - collapses under the weight of your own chaos.

You choose the battlefield where you think your context-ignoring inappropriate nonsense will cause the most damage

M: I see how things degenerate into food fights about me, and that is not what I want. T: On the contrary, I can tell that’s exactly what you want! M: I try to post what I honestly think people need and have a right to hear, T: No, you don’t! You talk AT people and ignore feedback. That’s not communicating - that’s propaganda! M: and then I get many responses, to which I try to answer a lot of, and the cycle starts, and soon becomes chaos. T: But you don’t try to ANSWER. You dodge, obfuscate, bloviate and instigate the chaotic cycle.

The PFAL baby should have been aborted back then when it was determined the fetus was grossly deformed, inviable and also would have threatened the cognitive skills and mental health of those so impregnated – talking metaphorically of course… You’d think this concept of mal-conception is inconceivable – but here we are debating over a student’s right to choose...

no I meant "misinterpreted" - YOU changed what the message meant - which led to your misapplication what the message in Psalm 12:6 means is simply that the words of the Lord are pure...the words don't need any filtering or re-writing from an incompetent plagiarizing, pathological liar, who steals and lies, and desperately grasps for money and glory, while he chain-smokes and guzzles Drambuie when he's on break from sexually molesting women.

Now, now Mister CEO of Chaos Incorporated – you’ve already admitted earlier on this thread that’s your number 1 job. “You’ve got one job – ONE JOB!”

Actually, you’ve misinterpreted Psalm 12: 6: The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 KJV That’s referring to the original message written in the Bible – it’s not talking about ways that cult-leaders can “re-write it” ~ ~ ~ ~ nice try on slipping that lie in ~ ~ ~ ~ it doesn't matter what theory of inspiration one subscribes to - honesty in textual criticism and hermeneutics is a big deal out of respect for the pure words of the Lord

this thread has gone in so many directions - I think it would be helpful if we had one of those you are here maps

See what I mean

You can mischaracterize other folks’ viewpoints as a mental rut - but noting your persistence in talking up PFAL and wierwille like they’re the greatest thing since the 1st century I think YOU ARE the ONE stuck in a rut for - what - some 20 years now. Here’s one quote on mental ruts from an expert. “In technical terms, psychologist Lindsay Tulchin, PhD, describes a mental rut as “a negative spiral of thoughts about yourself and your future that leads to avoidance of either actions that you know will help you feel better or actions that will help steer you in the right direction.” Helpful links: How to get out of a rut 10 signs you’re in a rut Mental shifts you can make to get out of a rut

I’m thinking of Forrest Gump describing how he’s been through every kind of snow job

It’s a variation of Ezekiel’s wheel - a story within a story wrapped up in a tortilla made of LoShonta inside a Pez dispenser for ease of delivery- and that’s only one fifth of the whole enchilada la cucarancha La Shonta

What you need is a pill organizer - so you don’t get the blue pill and the red pill mixed up… that’s all for now Neo , I’m going out witnessing in a few minutes with Morpheus - man I’m psyched!

I’ve always wondered why it starts snowing every time he shows up

a delusional person could believe their God is verifying it’s okay to sexually molest women as long as he keeps teaching “the Word”…in a delusional person’s mind anything is allowed- cuz in that make believe world they are their own God - incognito of course

Or rather a person CHOOSES to suspend their disbelief - that’s one way for someone to become immersed in a story and get something enjoyable out of it Probably similar in effect to when I suspend a literal interpretation of removing a 2 X 4 from my own eye before I can help remove a speck of sawdust from another person’s eye. The fantastic exaggeration conveys the priority of what should come first.

why not?!?! I think we've got a run on cannonballs

I wanted to devote an entire post to that. I believe we all have an innate desire to make sense of the world. Realistically speaking no one has all the answers – and so we occasionally find ourselves making allowances for shortcomings, failures, the mysterious, etc. Our beliefs help us make sense of the world. From what I’ve read online, some experts think our beliefs are somewhat like a software program always running in the background as we take in information and examine its source – checking for compatibility or conflicts with our existing beliefs. Our beliefs help form and/or modify a mental model for understanding the world, our self, and others. And our beliefs - along with experience, observations, and reason even attempt to predict the future: “If I play at the beach all day, I’ll probably get sunburned.” Bertrand Russell once said, “believing is the most mental thing we do”. It has also been said that our thoughts, feelings, actions, and reactions, respond not to the world as it actually is (for we never know reality directly) but to the world as we believe it to be. Our beliefs tell us who we think we are, mark our place in the world and are essentially an ongoing personal narrative that anchors us to various places, situations, and events across our lifetime…Our brains have no direct contact with the outside world. Our only information about what is going on outside of our bodies comes to us from our five senses. Perception in psychology is defined as the analysis of sensory information within the brain. Through perception we obtain a description of our surroundings and what they mean. Because of that, we can’t always assume that our perceptions are reality – if anything they just might be our own interpretation of reality. That’s why it’s important to respect the perceptions of others – they might be more accurate than ours. It takes real courage to admit we’re wrong and let go of certain perceptions. Sometimes it’s advantageous to seek out validation from experts or at least from other credible people who are outside of our circle of friends or religious group. In trying to make sense of it all, I often had to ask myself the question “Am I open to modifying my perception if the evidence is strong and logic demands it?” Having a rigid mindset is far worse than being wrong. We tend to base our beliefs on trusted sources…I started this thread for a number of reasons, one of which was to show why PFAL CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be trusted. ~ ~ ~ ~ My narrative on Grease Spot Café of how and why I left TWI is almost like an amateur trying to write a detective novel. I was a victimized through crimes against logic, faith, and self-confidence – and like an amateur sleuth I am making note of suspicious items, revisiting "crime scenes", and talking to other witnesses intent on unraveling the convoluted mess of a cult’s doctrine, practice and control tactics...if you're guessing the butler did it - you might be right - the butler's name was wierwille. "Kool-Aid is now being served in the break room"... ...sorry for another long post - it might be helpful to learn to speed-read like Johnny 5 Jean Shinoda Bolen's insightful book The Tao of Psychology: Synchronicity and the Self made reference to Agatha Christie's novels about her detective characters often using an intuitive approach asking what is the meaning of this event, what were the circumstances surrounding it, and what are the possibilities implicit within the event ? But in order to see the whole picture Bolen says intuition's counterpart is also necessary - which is a straight forward logical approach of the situation - what details of the circumstances do the five senses take in? ~ ~ ~ ~ Overall. we need a way to distinguish our internal thoughts, feelings and ideas from external events - we need to see a situation for what it really is, rather than what we hope - or fear - it might be – so we can distinguish between what is real and what isn’t. This is a very important aspect of dealing with the fantastic claims and hype of PFAL. This also gets into what’s probably one of the most basic issues of Christianity – how to relate faith to reason. ~ ~ ~ ~ Faith deals with revelation – some supernatural disclosure which could not be discovered by the powers of our 5 senses or reason….Reason is the natural ability of the human mind to discover a truth. With science, truth is determined by verification – as in the scientific method – which is a lot of observation and experimentation. Flying a plane or launching a rocket into space are doable because scientists found out the truth about gravity – there are ways to work around it. Science is practical – if it works, it’s true. Scientific truth gives us no criteria for metaphysical truth. Therefore, what is needed is another definition of truth for the metaphysical realm. In reading up on philosophy, I lean toward one theory of what truth is – it’s called the correspondence theory of truth - - “In metaphysics and philosophy of language, the correspondence theory of truth states that the truth or falsity of a statement is determined only by how it relates to the world and whether it accurately describes (i.e., corresponds with) that world. Correspondence theories claim that true beliefs and true statements correspond to the actual state of affairs. This type of theory attempts to posit a relationship between thoughts or statements on one hand, and things or facts on the other.” From Wikipedia: correspondence theory of truth Briefly relating this to another topic - what does inspiration of the Bible mean? I lean toward the Bible being a co-authored book – it has divine and human “elements” in it. In the Bible we are presented with metaphysical truths – like God is transcendent, He is the Creator, faith, hope, love, etc., in the narrative of the human condition enveloped in the worldviews and cultures of those times. If one chooses to view the Bible as a textbook in a branch of study or like a perfect user manual – inerrant – even when it addresses matters of science – the correspondence theory of truth will clash with that. I don’t think of the Bible as the end of the journey. It’s a useful companion on the journey. And it shouldn’t be our only companion on the journey. In John 16:13 Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit will guide us into all the truth – I’ll leave you will an excerpt from one commentary on John 16:13: “He will guide you into all truth.—Better, . . . into all the truth. The words do not mean that the Holy Spirit will fully guide them into truth, but that He will be their guide into the fulness of truth. The word rendered “guide,” occurs again in Matthew 15:14; Luke 6:39; Revelation 7:17; and metaphorically, as here, in Acts 8:31. A comparison of these passages will show that its meaning is “to point out the way,” “to lead one on his way.” The fulness of truth is for the disciples an unknown territory. They are spiritually as blind men, feeling after the truth, but not able to see it. The Spirit of Truth will take them by the hand, and, step by step, as they have strength to follow, will guide them into the territory, and unfold to them the treasures it contains. The promise has a special meaning for the disciples to whom it was spoken; but it holds good for every disciple who seeks to know the truth. We may pray,—without doubt that the prayer is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and without doubt that it will be answered” from : Bible Hub: commentaries on John 16:13 End of excerpt

Being open minded just means willing to consider new ideas. It does NOT mean you will automatically accept them or even be easily swayed by them. Perhaps the more confident one is in their own analytic skills they’re more likely to discover more options and have the ability to improve on their own belief system as they self-correct areas that they re-examined. In my opinion PFAL tended to erode one’s self confidence in their own thinking skills for fear of the boogie man - it feels safer to be tucked in under wierwille’s security blanket of the PFAL-mindset. It’s all figured out for you. No guesswork. Accepting PFAL as the truth-or-error detector takes all the worry out of thinking. Over time the TWI-mindset tends to eat away at one’s self-confidence.

You seem to always have such great difficulty in explaining your thinking process for the science world and TWI, I get the impression you never had a THINKING process - maybe a process of absorption…your scatterbrained attempts here to insinuate yourself into a respectable position are thinly disguised baloney. And it’s hilarious how you can criticize and condemn the way corps like you were ever in the program. And for that matter, by assuming you saw how the corporation worked from the inside from your non-corps position is like thinking you know how the Titanic works since you’re employed as a cabin boy. On several occasions I’ve heard wierwille state he’d prefer every position to be filled by way corps – and I know why he said that – the way corps – wierwille’s most dedicated followers are the engine and all the major systems that makes the Titanic work. You don’t have a clue on the mentality of the way corps – they are wierwille-clones…mini-wierwilles…I wonder if you idolize wierwille so much – that YOU probably think you and him were on the same page – if only the way corps would simply believe the man of God like you do…you’re quite an armchair-way-corps leader – you know that don’t you? They should award you an honorary way corps name tag . I wonder what your idea of light spots in the ministry were. Having no real responsibility? Not having the pressure of answering to a tyrant like wierwille? Not having to counsel believers sexually molested by wierwille? Were you that clueless about the dark underbelly of TWI and didn’t know how it really works – or was it that you looked the other way? Were you like a frightened child who sensed that Daddy was doing something horrible to your older siblings in the other room? I wonder if you were ever emotionally torn apart after hearing about a sweet, loving believer you knew personally getting marked and avoided…labeled possessed…or on the receiving end of character assassination - - but in the back of your mind you wonder if they may have crossed the man of God…was it some woman who was sexually molested by wierwille and posed a threat because she was now freaked out and unpredictable? ~ ~ ~ ~ I don’t care if you worked the collaterals until it snowed in your pants – your LACK OF UNDERSTANDING that “the Bible interprets itself “ claim is just a bunch of baloney betrays how dimwitted you might be. It's a clear indication you are incapable of logical thinking…you just wasted a lot of your time reviewing nonsense…I wouldn’t brag about that if I were you. It’s like bragging you’re a great statistician because you figured out that people who have more birthdays live longer. ~ ~ ~ ~ you don’t shove your nonsense down anyone’s throat – only because you don’t have enough intellectual force or selling power to compel Grease Spotters to buy your baloney. So, you go the deceitful route of bluffing and regurgitating magnificent lies and wierwille's nonsense.

Some thoughts after both of your posts. In cyberspace, it may be difficult to figure out where someone is coming from when their persona contradicts their stated goals or intent. When someone is that predictably inconsistent, I become very wary of anything they say. Is it a mental health issue or a deliberate deception for whatever reason? Since I’m not qualified to play doctor and diagnose someone over the internet – I usually go by my version of dealing with someone at face value – as I would if I were a bank teller. If what they hand me looks fake, I won’t accept it. Go deposit crazy somewhere else ~ ~ ~ ~ for example - this post

paging Doctor Chockfull, Doctor OldSkool, Doctor T-Bone

That goes for me too! Grease Spot is great for exchanging ideas and connecting with folks in cyberspace. It’s not like we’re developing an aggregate doctrinal thesis. And as scatterbrained as Mike’s stuff sounds – I tend to think he’s aware of that too - - and it might be he just gets his rocks off by annoying others.

With your track record - I don’t believe you. You started the 2nd wave thread – and you dropped out pretty quick - I can only guess it's because people’s ideas presented a challenge to yours – makes me think you couldn’t deal with that. Grease Spotters have started threads based on claims you made about wierwille and PFA:L teachings and YOU didn’t show up for those. And there was the NT Canon thread specifically started for you and so far you've failed to present coherent arguments for your own theory of how the NT canon came to be. Looks to me like YOU’RE the one who is afraid of having a direct conversation and that makes me think your ideas are untenable - and YOU KNOW IT.

right you are