T-Bone

How to excel in sessions on faking it: this is a tough call - I think both passed the audition on being the best faker

whew - that's a relief - I was beginning to wonder

right here is an admission of faking tongues, interpretation and prophecy Because one could fake it so easily it's no wonder this was the big selling point of retaking PFAL again and again and sticking with TWI because you at least got some tangible evidence that the PFAL class works - "alright, so all your questions weren't answered the first time through PFAL. You need to take the class again - keep your head in the collaterals...keep speaking in tongues...it's just a walk people" more like it's just the Kool-Aid.

Neuroscience is the scientific study of the nervous system (the brain, spinal cord, and peripheral nervous system) and its functions. It is a multidisciplinary science that combines physiology, anatomy, molecular biology, developmental biology, cytology, psychology, physics, computer science, chemistry, medicine, statistics, and mathematical modeling to understand the fundamental and emergent properties of neurons, glia and neural circuits. The understanding of the biological basis of learning, memory, behavior, perception, and consciousness has been described by Eric Kandel as the "epic challenge" of the biological sciences from Wikipedia: neuroscience ~ ~ ~ ~ Like father-in-the-word, like son: I’m not a real doctor but I play one in PFAL I'm not a real neuroscientist. philosopher, theologian, dance instructor, brain surgeon but I play one on Grease Spot Cafe.

Dear Mike, Dear whoever you are To whom it may concern, “Mike” said: Now this cool. After all your clumsy criticisms of minFW and juggling of the general concepts, you end up in total agreement with me. ~ ~~ ~ I’m not surprised he’d say something like this. What is it - some 20 years? And in that time a lot of folks have tried to engage him but his modus operandi appears to be acting like a troll and that has frustrated everyone’s efforts instead, what occupies the attention of a lot of folks is his acting like a troll in some ways this seems like a war of attrition - a prolonged period of conflict during which each side seeks to gradually wear out the other by a series of small-scale actions. I notice the person acting like a troll will periodically play the victim card – saying folks are silencing him and shoving him in a closet – which is a ridiculous claim for him to make - since he's still around spewing out toxic waste His troll-like agenda of being insincere, digressive, extraneous, and posting off-topic replies appears to be driven by the intent of provoking Grease Spotters into displaying emotional responses or manipulating others' perception of him as well as obfuscating the insidious nature of wierwille / PFAL. Observant Grease Spotters on other threads have repeatedly pointed that out. I will say this – his incessant and deliberate use of smoke screens has whittled his credibility down into the negative numbers and I’m thinking it would be handy to have a toxic hazard emoji we can use when quoting him. He protests when someone suggests he might be on TWI’s payroll....when someone strives to remain enigmatic for some 20 years – I tend to ignore anything he says about himself. He bragged about being smart and spiritually pure enough to NOT go in the way corps – so, who knows – he might really be ex-way corps. He might be TWI-clergy. He could be LCM…he could be anyone that his troll-act needs him to be...provided the needs and wants are parallel.

I feel like I’m being played by one of those virtual insanity games …from its inception this thread is determined to make me think I’m Leo DiCaprio dreaming about standing on top of a sinking lighthouse - Kate Winslet is yelling “I’m queen of the homecoming” …I shutter to think what would happen if one of the wolves of Wall Street turns out to be me in a cheap wool suit - but I stuck it out so far - and I figure I have freely received Bull-Shonta so I’m gonna freely give Bull-Shonta to everyone - with or without distinction…A/V crew please cue Celine Dion singing “This thread will go on” This movie/game is rated FD - Freedom Determinators…teaser after end credits has Arnold saying “I’ll be back…whenever I feel like it.”

Remember in the How to Fake TIP class we were taught if what you say in LoShonta is this long then the interpretation should be that long. But if someone calls you out on your interpretation being way too loooooong - you can cover your a$$ by claiming you went over into Bull-Shonta. If you ask me, I think this “thesis” (and thread) has gone over into Bull-Shonta. We need to “master” changing gears - become a shifty gear changer : Fist gear: LoShonta Second gear: Mid-Shonta Third gear: Hi-Shonta Whenever someone speaks in Hi-Shonta , that’s a known language. I understand Hi-Shonta. One of my favorite pastimes is to go $hi++ing in Hi-Shonta.

Yeah, Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite books. Wish I understood it better. The preacher sounds like a modern existential philosopher – but the way it hits me – and I’m just guessing here – the writer sounds a little like a Stoic –meaning is not found in what is here – it must be found elsewhere…the metaphysical

Great thought food, Rocky – thanks! Yeah – I think there’s something to that. On another thread - here - I shared some stuff from a study Bible that interprets the metaphysical through the eyes of the worldview/cultures that the biblical writers had. I tend to lean more toward the philosophy of religion rather than just theology anyway. After all, I did say in my Oct. 25th post I wanted to explore human nature - not only in Biblical theology – but also through other legitimate disciplines. Theologians are usually bound by the tenets of their particular faith, and that puts limits on what they can argue and what conclusions they can reach. They will accept certain concepts and principles on the basis of faith alone – but me, I guess being part technician and part renegade - i like to think outside the theological box and explore the heck out of something as much as I can with what I little I know of standard philosophical/analytic methods. Well…giving wierwille the benefit of a doubt – taking his work at face value and that it was simply him explaining life the way that made sense to him – I have some problems with that. He took a lot of liberties when explaining the text of the Bible and often made up his own definitions and concepts – and combined different ideas with logical fallacies. Overall there was a great lack of coherence – some points of doctrine contradicted other elements in his ideology. I guess a crazy man’s viewpoint might make sense to him – but I won’t give him a free pass on his tendency to pontificate over stuff he knows nothing about. I find there’s a lot more consistency and valid ideas in other religions, other belief systems, and in certain disciplines like psychology, philosophy, anthropology and sociology. I’m kinda openminded in that regard – currently I’m reading some stuff on Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.

Here’s something from Grudem’s Systematic Theology that’s makes me want to rethink what little I do know about the Holy Spirit: In the realm of nature, it is the role of the Holy Spirit to give life to all animate creatures, whether on the ground or in the sky and sea, for “When you send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Ps. 104:30). Conversely, if God “should take back his spirit to himself, and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust” (Job 34:14 - 15). Here we see the role of the Spirit in the giving and sustaining of human and animal life. Parallel with this is the role of the Holy Spirit to give us new life in regeneration. Jesus told Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew (John 3:6 – 7; cf. vv. 5, 8; 6:63; 2 Cor. 3:6). He also said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63 NASB; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6; Acts 10: 44 – 47; Titus 3:5). Consistent with this life-giving function of the Holy Spirit is the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary his mother (Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). And on the day when Christ returns, it is the same Holy Spirit who will complete this life-giving work by giving new resurrection life to our mortal bodies: “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11). From page 636 of Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine by Wayne Grudem I mentioned on another thread - here – wierwille’s tendency to particularize the nebulous, the mysterious, the unknowable, and the incomprehensible. That’s certainly seems the case with his chapter on Body, Soul, and Spirit in the PFAL book - like a lot of things – it appears wierwille didn’t know what he was talking about.

Here’s something else from Grudem’s Systematic Theology that makes me want to rethink what little I do know about the Holy Spirit…btw getting out of wierwille’s little theological box can be a real mindblower, don’t ya know! In the realm of nature, it is the role of the Holy Spirit to give life to all animate creatures, whether on the ground or in the sky and sea, for “When you send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Ps. 104:30). Conversely, if God “should take back his spirit to himself, and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust” (Job 34:14 - 15). Here we see the role of the Spirit in the giving and sustaining of human and animal life. Parallel with this is the role of the Holy Spirit to give us new life in regeneration. Jesus told Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew (John 3:6 – 7; cf. vv. 5, 8; 6:63; 2 Cor. 3:6). He also said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63 NASB; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6; Acts 10: 44 – 47; Titus 3:5). Consistent with this life-giving function of the Holy Spirit is the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary his mother (Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). And on the day when Christ returns, it is the same Holy Spirit who will complete this life-giving work by giving new resurrection life to our mortal bodies: “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11). end of excerpt From page 636 of Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine by Wayne Grudem

Mike said: I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims. It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good. T-Bone’s response: perhaps you were deceived by the wax fruit Found this today - here’s a used item on eBay - Vintage MCM Wax Fruit Realistic Tones 8 Pieces - $12 looks real doesn't it... back when I was a kid, my friend's mother had a bowl of wax fruit on the table - it always looked so good - one day I grabbed the apple and bit into it - yuk! not so good...Sorry Mrs. P Jesus warned us about bad fruit: 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Matthew 7: 15 - 20 Ah, so there’s good fruit and bad fruit. I think a lot of TWI-followers were fooled by the wax fruit wierwille put on the table - his public persona. We speak of the fruits of one's labor - the outcome or rewards of one's work or efforts – so that brings to mind some rather obvious things he’s produced – not sure if we should count the enormity of plagiarized materials in PFAL class and books, since he didn’t really produce them – rather he illegally reproduced them and slapped his name on it. What else? Well, there’s The Way International – nonprofit organization. A non-profit organization is a group organized for purposes other than generating profit and in which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its members, directors, or officers…They can take the form of a corporation, an individual enterprise (for example, individual charitable contributions), unincorporated association, partnership, foundation (distinguished by its endowment by a founder, it takes the form of a trusteeship), or condominium (joint ownership of common areas by owners of adjacent individual units incorporated under state condominium acts). Non-profit organizations include churches, public schools, public charities, public clinics and hospitals, political organizations, legal aid societies, volunteer services organizations, labor unions, professional associations, research institutes, museums, and some governmental agencies… …Non-profit entities are organized under state law. For non-profit corporations, some states have adopted the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act (1986)…State law also governs solicitation privileges and accreditations requirements such as licenses and permits. Each state defines non-profit differently. Some states make distinctions between organizations not operated for profit without charitable goals (like a sports or professional association) and charitable associations in order to determine what legal privileges the respective organizations will be given. From: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/non-profit_organizations The term “nonprofit” means different things to many different people. It’s a commonly used word without a common understanding between writer and reader. People often use the words “nonprofit” and “tax exempt” interchangeably. Congress has created almost three dozen types of tax-exempt organizations in different sections of the tax code… …Each section identifies certain conditions that must be met to be exempt from paying federal income taxes. The one common condition is not paying out profits (“no part of the organization’s net earnings can inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual”); hence the term, “nonprofit.” Section 501(c)(3) of the tax code refers to “public charities” (also known as charitable nonprofits) and “private foundations.” The tax code considers “churches and religious organizations” (which the IRS defines to include mosques, synagogues, temples, and other houses of worship) to be "public charities.” From https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/what-is-a-nonprofit TWI is small potatoes compared to larger cults that have tax-exempt status – while there is a lot of wiggle room on defining nonprofit and tax exempt depending on Federal and State laws – I believe there are a lot of similarities with Scientology - in terms of being very harmful and controlling - and in the unusual and unbiblical elements mixed into their ideology. I’ve list a few hyperlinks below on TWI and Scientology – there’s some articles and books which get into the shady and intimidating tactics of Scientology you might find interesting. That’s all I’ll say on TWI’s financial stuff…being how they seem to be shrinking to less and less significance and importance – I tend to think if they had the resources of Scientology they’d probably conduct some devious and menacing operations on par with Scientology. Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_International https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Scientology-Americas-Secretive-Religion/dp/0547750358/ Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion by Janet Reitman https://www.amazon.com/Going-Clear-Scientology-Hollywood-Prison/dp/0307745309/ Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief Paperback by Lawrence Wright https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/11/12/irs-and-scientology-everything-you-want-to-know-and-more/?sh=264cf42f4042 Forbes article on the IRS and Scientology https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/irs.html clearing house for reports/court records on Scientology vs IRS controversy. ~ ~ ~ ~ Of course, there's other fruits of wierwille’s labor such as the WOW program, University of Life, Fellow Laborers program, way corps program. I can speak from experience about the WOW and way corps programs – they promised so much and delivered so little – and both had deleterious effects to my finances, social networks, family, marriage, mental health, and career. ~ ~ ~ ~ Paul in Galatians talked more about fruit – mostly the intangible kind: 13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Galatians 5: 13 – 26 Note that Paul said, “the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”” Loving yourself is not only personal – it is self-referential. I’ve got a few hyperlinks on that idea – but the big takeaway for me is that I should be constantly running a subroutine in my head which is always asking critical questions about my priorities and checking - whether my intentions and actions are out of tune with my ideology; as a Christian – among other things, it means being honest with myself and being kind, considerate, gracious, and forgiving. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/stronger-the-broken-places/201606/self-referential-is-being-internally-self-referenced Psychology Today: being internally self-referenced https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/self-reference/ Plato Stanford Edu: self-reference https://optimistminds.com/self-reference-effect/ Optimist Minds: the self-reference effect Of course, the golden rule works the way God intended it if you're honest with yourself. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A12&version=ESV So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 7:12 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A12&version=ESV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule Wikipedia: the golden rule If you were in TWI but never participated in any of the programs I mentioned – you probably have a different opinion of wierwille and TWI – probably a less informed one, that enjoys the superficial aspects – the wax fruit. But many who have been through the various programs have seen, heard about or know someone victimized by the dark underbelly of the beast – wierwille and certain other TWI-leadership with their sexual immorality, debauchery, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, factions, envy, drunkenness like what’s described in Galatians 5. That does not reflect the good fruit of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5: 22ff… love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control – these attributes are polar opposites of the works of the flesh. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class. They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives. Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them. You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch. It's not too late. It will be too late someday. Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks, if you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol, and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us. T-Bone’s response: perhaps Mike is seriously deluded, is lying through his teeth, or acting like a troll (or maybe all 3 ) to claim people are still getting massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class… The “bad seed” of PFAL will still produce bad fruit. Mike says Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks… Yikes! You mean like a whipped puppy?!?! “Meekly” ? In a quiet, gentle, and submissive manner? "Thank you, sir, may I have another" ~ ~ ~ ~ and what the hell is a manufactured anti-idol? I’ve decoded Mike’s mishmash terminology on another thread - here And let me decode the last part of Mike’s post to expose the innerworkings of a possibly deluded cult-zealot/pathological liar/someone acting like a troll: Mike wants us to look at how to work within wierwille’s idea of a manageable god via brainwashing with the twisted and perverted ideology of PFAL which wierwille stole and through the miracle of incompetency made it “his own”. ...that's literally - the stuff belonged to other people and wierwille claimed it was his.

For those interested in Scripture, the bigger picture on its history, and what may have been influential to the ancient authors – you might want to check out The Encyclopedia of Lost and Rejected Scriptures: The Pseudepigrapha and Apocrypha by Joseph B. Lumpkin ....I have a hardbound copy and a Kindle version as well…My son was into it before me – and we’ve had a lot of thought-provoking discussions over it...it’s like time-travel in literary form.

Hey - I was wondering if "Dream" was the working title - since I noticed that on the MP3 I downloaded. If you're still taking input, I thought a good title for it would be Old Skool's Anthem

Sorting through the philosophical-sounding-pseudoscientific-LoShonta on this thread Free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion Minimalistic describes something that is stripped down to its most essential elements or uses only what is needed What is the most essential element of free will? It is the power to act without constraint of necessity or fate The “minimalistic” or “min” attached to the words “free will” is an unnecessary and confusing adjective – it should be eliminated ~ ~ ~ ~ self-betterment is the act or result of making oneself better through one's own efforts Learning is the acquisition of knowledge or skills through experience, study, or by being taught Learning in disguise - Learning is wearing a disguise? It’s made to look like something else? It’s presented as another thing? This is a feeble attempt to redefine words and to deceive the reader into thinking that learning is actually something else. It is misleading. The phrase makes no sense – and should be eliminated ~ ~ ~ ~ Determinism is a philosophical view, where all events are determined completely by previously existing causes. The doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions. Cause-and-effect in physics is “causal determinism”; state of an object/event is completely determined by its prior states. Cause is the reason behind an action or natural phenomena whereas effect is the result of a cause or the outcome of some chain of events that have happened. There is a cause and is an effect in everything we do. Cause and Effect is a constant series of actions which logically follows from one action to the other. In the cause and effect relationship, one or more things happen as a result of something else. The concepts of determinism and cause-and-effect are basically incompatible with the definition of free will. ~ ~ ~ ~ Sorting through the unnecessary-and pseudo-spiritual-red-tape-of-the-LoShonta on this thread We seek what we desire Hebrews 11:6 is addressing believers NOT unbelievers – therefore the prime requisite of the Christian seeking after God is faith – it is not an intellectual pursuit – rather we seek after a living Being. John 20:31 says that the Gospels are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. This is the power of the Gospel message. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1: 16, 17 Contrary to the red tape that some wierwille-defenders “envision” taking place over the course of many months - or 20 years of coming to Grease Spot Café - salvation through Jesus Christ is easy! I for one am annoyed by anyone that acts like an incessant troll and expects us to endure how he prattles on about the greatness of PFAL with its minimalistic required donation and the demand for “free will offerings” going above the tithe on a regular basis – or else - ooooh I so scared! Simply hearing and believing the Gospel message of Jesus Christ, saves you the time, money, effort, and abuse you’d get taking the long and drawn-out journey to nowhere via PFAL.

"Thanks for the feedback" Jimi used to say that all the time - he talked to his amps. btw - my very first concert was Jimi Hendrix, at the Singer Bowl -1968 in Queens, NY - and on the bill was Soft Machine, Chambers Brothers and Janis Joplin...I still remember when Jimi came out, he kept fussing with his guitar - he says something to the MC - the MC steps to the mic and says something like "Jimi says he's sorry for the delay - but said he'll make it up to you in spades." and he sure did - end of show he rammed his guitar into his amp - roadies were on the back side bracing the stack of amps as Jimi charged them

man, that's funny!

Yes! I get the tie in to this thread - using wierwille’s method of defining – lambano – ballo – throw the ball…yes! Jesus in The Big Lebowski is pointing at the Dude – who abides – and Jesus is standing in a bowling alley – that’s right up his alley -which means it suits him perfectly – Jesus abides – he is not absent – he lives there – he lives in other places too – probably in a bowling alley near you.

Beautiful tune! One of my favorite things to is anthemic sounding music – it’s uplifting…inspiring…I closed my eyes and could imagine your tune as a soundtrack in a movie like Rocky – there’s the training period and making breakthroughs with a couple of crescendos…I mentioned earlier it reminded a little of Gogo Penguin and Hidden Orchestra – a lot of their stuff has an anthemic vibe to it. Whenever I’m in a writing sometimes I like to have instrumental stuff in the background (usually, jazz, classical, Gogo P, Hidden O – something like that – encourages mental doodling. Again great tune – smooth work on the lead guitar – that’s the style I like the most A game-show analysis of your post has yielded a candidate for Wheel of Fortune – before and after: I'm testing out my new studio setup...you guys are not guinea pigs....but if u were you would be God's best guinea pigs New Guinea Pigs Could refer to the police force on the world’s second largest island. I know the chief of police Hiri Motu LoShonta – he and I go way, way back – to the back of the line at the DMV. The Wheel’s gonna get yah!

Mike’s goofball “designs” and “theories” and “redefining” of words and concepts are contradictory, nonsensical, untenable and untestable. Freedom is the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.

Just wanted to mention some after thoughts from reading one of the books I mentioned earlier - Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine by Wayne Grudem - the author suggests we define the work of the Holy Spirit is to manifest the active presence of God in the world, and now especially in the church. In the Old Testament the presence of God was many times manifested in the glory of God, in theophanies (like the cloud and fire during Israelites’ journey in the wilderness), the tabernacle, the temple and of course certain individuals who had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit – and in the Gospels Jesus Christ Himself manifested the presence of God among men. After Pentecost, the Holy Spirit and the immanency of the risen Christ are often considered primary indicators of God’s presence in the church. Also wanted to add a few more hyperlinks on the Hoy Spirit in the OT and NT: Holy Spirit in the Old Testament: Upon or Within People? | Renewing Truth What was the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament? The Spirit and the Old Testament Jesus' use of Spirit upon verse in Isaiah The role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament DID THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELL ALL BELIEVERS DURING THE OLD TESTAMENT PERIOD? Israel My Glory org: The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament Is the Holy Spirit the Same in the Old Testament? by G Campbell Morgan

and remember don't ever trust whitey the moral of the story - if you see a fake doctor in PFAL - get rid of it

wierwille's mishmash theology twisted "upon" to suggest a contingency - "upon a condition" - in the Old Testament - or more specifically before Pentecost however there are OT passages that express it as Spirit being within - or being filled with - see this article Holy Spirit in the Old Testament: Upon or Within People? chalk another one up for wierwille and his goofy re-definitions also bear in mind that wierwille tended to lean on strict literal interpretations - see other link here that gets into nuance of "upon" - maybe similar to wierwille's point of not being permanent - however it seems to me that wierwille had tunnel vision to focus on just one aspect of Holy Spirit in OT...so I'm not saying wierwille was totally wrong - just narrowminded - I tend to think The Holy Spirit is the same in the OT and NT as far as I understand it - but that's just my opinion - there's other opinions on that - see links below - in the NT what changed was what Jesus Christ accomplished for us - which was revealed in Acts 2 - Pentecost...but there are different viewpoints on that - so see articles below: What was the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament? The Spirit and the Old Testament Jesus' use of Spirit upon verse in Isaiah The role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament DID THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELL ALL BELIEVERS DURING THE OLD TESTAMENT PERIOD? Wikipedia: The Holy Spirit Israel My Glory org: The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament Is the Holy Spirit the Same in the Old Testament? by G Campbell Morgan ~ ~ ~ ~ Also wanted to add some thoughts after reading Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine by Wayne Grudem the author suggests we define the work of the Holy Spirit is to manifest the active presence of God in the world, and now especially in the church. In the Old Testament the presence of God was many times manifested in the glory of God, in theophanies (like the cloud and fire during Israelites’ journey in the wilderness), the tabernacle, the temple and of course certain individuals who had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. in the Gospels Jesus Christ Himself manifested the presence of God among men. After Pentecost, the Holy Spirit and the immanency of the risen Christ are often considered primary indicators of God’s presence in the church.

It's like a perpetual motion machine only much more annoying a perpetual bull-Shonta machine

98. PFAL is a cult-leader’s playbook to maintain control Taking note of an underlying theme in the posts I quoted, the tool of divisiveness is essential to control; there are numerous examples from history of warring empires, politics, sociology, religion, the work place, etc.: Divide and rule policy (Latin: divide et impera), or divide and conquer, in politics and sociology is gaining and maintaining power divisively. Historically, this strategy was used in many different ways by empires seeking to expand their territories. However, it has been hard to distinguish between the exploitation of pre-existing divisions by opponents, and the deliberate creation or strengthening of these divisions implied by "divide and rule"… …The use of this technique is meant to empower the sovereign to control subjects, populations, or factions of different interests, who collectively might be able to oppose its rule. Niccolò Machiavelli identifies a similar application to military strategy, advising in Book VI of The Art of War (1521)…a Captain should endeavor with every act to divide the forces of the enemy. Machiavelli advises that this act should be achieved either by making him suspicious of his men in whom he trusted, or by giving him cause that he has to separate his forces, and, because of this, become weaker… …The maxim divide et impera has been attributed to Philip II of Macedon. It was utilised by the Roman ruler Julius Caesar and the French emperor Napoleon (together with the maxim divide ut regnes)… In economics, the concept is also mentioned as a strategy for market segmentation to get the most out of the players in a competitive market… Psychopathy in the workplace - Clive R. Boddy found that "divide and conquer" was a common strategy by corporate psychopaths used as a smokescreen to help consolidate and advance their grip on power in the corporate hierarchy… From Wikipedia: divide and rule ~ ~ ~ ~ Circling back to the posts I quoted above – note the threefold strategy for isolating followers: 1. Promotes cognitive dissonance – isolation from reality 2. Dis-harmony in the home – promotes estrangement from family 3. Polarizing theology – TWI-followers are galvanized to dissent from all other Christian groups over doctrinal issues Below are some hyperlinks that address the unhealthy aspect of isolation: Isolation's Silent Role in the Teen Mental Health Crisis - Social isolation is contributing to anxiety, depression, and more for youth The Dangers of Isolation Isolation and mental health: thinking outside the box