T-Bone

Oh, heavens must we rehearse all those dreadful TWI tropes again? Very well then…you play like David Gilmour writes

Crazy-awesome…atmospheric…listened to it a few times…great mix…liquified metal licks on geetarr !!!! and I dig that song title … That would work as a soundtrack in a sci-fi movie the scene: shuttle craft Cтару Wколу arriving off-world…slowly descending out of the thick troposphere, the interactive planet Alte Schule comes to life with dangly leads of fretted flora and fauna (movie trivia: props and animatronics pilfered from the studio backlot that brought you the reimagined Battlestar Galactica series...and certain animatronics borrowed from a local Chuck E. Cheese). As the landing gear of the Cтару Wколу came down, captain παλιό σχολείο announced over the intergalactic Yama-Hammer PA system “well gang, we’re not in Kansas anymore.” ~ ~ ~ ~ More movie trivia: repeated the name “old school” in 3 different languages. shuttle craft Cтару Wколу is Ukrainian for old school; the interactive planet Alte Schule is German for old school; captain παλιό σχολείο is Greek for old school.

ah-right we cool...just next time don't interrupt me when I'm in my music zone

Hmmmm you’re acting a little peavey…are you trying to out-vox me ? you’re probably aKustomed to the acoustic properties of a much smaller room. Orange you glad I ampegged for small venues…so don’t Mesa with me or you can just boogie on down the line 6. I'll have you know my vocabulary goes up to 11.

go ahead - I dare you to marshall your forces...I am a dah-Fender of my fate

Maybe Mike doesn’t realize all great cult-leaders think alike. Not in terms of “signature” tenets but in their methods of manipulation / indoctrination. For example. it’s been discussed on other threads the similarity of “management” tactics with Scientology and The Way International. I think it's the same thing with this Gurdjieff dude - from what I've been reading about his ways. From my experience it seems to me concern for doctrine becomes secondary to everyone toeing the line. If purity of doctrine/correctly interpreting the Bible was the number priority of TWI, I would see an “evolution” in doctrine so to speak – an ongoing process of refinement…correction…updates…that's what the word “research” implies. I remember LCM saying something along the lines of if someone ever finds something wrong in our doctrine, we change…but I’ve never seen that happen. It’s the same old dogma – which in itself is both a litmus test to determine if you’re in the club – and prison guard to make sure you don’t escape. I think all harmful and controlling cults are alike in that they optimize the bait-and-switch fraud. The bait they dangle out there to attract people are the attractive promises of their belief system. But once a person is hooked – the control tactics to keep them ensnared are basically the same. I’m of the opinion that once the particular cult’s mindset is embedded in a new recruit – it’s more or less irrelevant as to what the doctrines are, since through indoctrination the beliefs were accepted uncritically. I've been reevaluating TWI doctrine ever since I left - for some 36 years now - and I'm embarrassed to admit how gullible I was to accept all the magical thinking, Gnosticism, spiritualism, fundamentalism and Scripture twisting in PFAL up through all the other classes including the Advanced Class. I guess some would try to argue TWI is promoting Christian beliefs. I beg to differ. Pseudo-Christian cults like TWI hijack Bible verses to promote their insidious and exploitative agenda. It’s not about the Lordship of Jesus Christ in one’s personal convictions – it’s about cult-leaders lording it over you to assert a position of control…dominance…subjugation. “The Word of wierwille” takes the place of the lordship of Jesus Christ. Check out some relevant hyperlinks below: Psychology Today: Clues to what makes for a pathological cult leader 32 Bizarre Facts About Cults When Christianity becomes a cult 6 Warning Signs of Religious Cults - these signs are red flags that a group has cult-like potential What are some signs and practices of a cult?

Except when they don’t – what’s that saying Nathan says it works every time 60% of the time. True story – our band is playing at a TWI-coffee house. I count off a song that I wrote – but I started it too fast – well…the band jumped in anyway – one of the female singers who had the lead vocals, after rushing through the opening verses finally just stopped singing – held up her hand like a crossing-guard – we all stopped…and the band and everyone in the coffee house began cracking up…when the laughter died down – she counted it off at its normal meter and we did the song. For some reason that was one of the sweetest parts of the night and we got a lot of good feedback about it. (feedback from the audience – not the amps )

Damn! I should have been in your Twig. I was subservient to a fault! See, that’s the difference between lead guitarists and bass players – you guys NEVER go by the rules.

what?!?! they let you use that? you brought your own computer with you in-residence?

yikes ! another insidious tangent of a harmful and controlling cult! I never thought about that.

Good post, Twinky! And you got me thinking about my way corps training. I put myself in wierwille’s shoes and imagine whatever significant prep/development there was before theological college and beyond would be uppermost in my thinking …subjects, training and experiences that were meaningful to me – I would incorporate into a leadership training program of my own design. Reflecting back on my involvement with TWI – especially the way corps leadership training program – wierwille’s baby - there was a huge disconnect from his scholastic/academic/theological roots. I think about his maverick persona even in PFAL – talked about hauling off some 3,000 books to the dump – wasn’t going to read what others said about “The Word” – he was going to just read “The Word” (as he plagiarized material of what others taught about the Bible ) Think about how often wierwille’s offhand remarks disparaged academia, conventional wisdom, cognitive skills, five-senses knowledge, and “worldly” intellectual standards. The way corps program was a HUGE disappointment. It was all about PFAL and how to sell PFAL and how to manage loyal customers of PFAL – useless stuff outside of way-world.

That reminds me of the discerning of Schrodinger’s cat session at the Advanced Class Is it possible for the cat to be possessed and not possessed at the same time? Also, could double as a meme for burning the candle at both ends/chewing the box at both ends I would like to see a porch pirate try to steal this Amazon package

Digital is good...I have some duplicates of printed Bibles on Kindle...only thing I don't like - it depends on the Kindle book - navigation is kinda clunky on some...but I do have some Bible versions on Kindle only - like The Passion and NT Wright's Kingdom New Testament (my 52 count was printed Bibles, Interlinears, Greek NT) "aw what are you saying - digital don't count?" not at all ... lately due to "printed library reduction act" I've been getting more reference books on Kindle - commentaries, syst. theology, philosophy. lately for Grease Spot I've been using BibleGateway and Bible Hub websites more - good for copying and pasting passages

Didn't know that about Goodwill I check out Half Price Books sometimes

you should have used Nathan's method...it's a lot quicker

Ha - good one, So_crates! My son – when he was little would refer to the handwritten notes in my Bible as “writing on purpose”…and come to think about – it’s similar to listening with a purpose questions in the PFAL syllabus…talk about cultic flashbacks! Yikes! Speaking of writing PFAL notes in the Bible – I found a wide center margin Bible at a Christian bookstore – great for writing notes on the middle of the page. Only downside was it was KJV but no italicized words…me being a natural scribe – I went through the entire Bible comparing the text with the worn KJV Bible with italics that the girl who got me in the class gave to me. Used a black pen to underline every word from Gen to Rev that was italicized in my class Bible. Used other pen colors for “writing on purpose” TWI-notes in the center margin…In ’86 when we left TWI, I sold it at our garage sale before we moved…once and a great while I think about that…probably should have burned it – but don’t think I could do that to a Bible…maybe I should run a general ad: To whom it may concern, years ago I was financially desperate and sold a Bible with a bunch of handwritten notes of stuff I had learned from my harmful and controlling cult-leader. Hopefully you saw through the pseudo-Christian nonsense like I finally did and it didn’t have such a negative impact on your life. If on the other hand you find yourself still “spellbound” by such baloney, I recommend you check out Grease Spot Café to find out what’s in the awful-sauce of TWI-doctrine. ~ ~ ~ ~ Don’t mean to brag, OldSkool (okay maybe a little ) – but I have 52 Bibles – different versions, some with study notes or commentaries – and I don’t write anything in them. I’m a bit of a study bug – so what I do is write studies in Word docs, iPhone notepad and sometimes handwrite in composition notebook – and I include what particular Bible, page, appendix, illustration, map, etc., the info is from. Sorta like my own home-made collateral You’ve probably noticed the same referencing in my posts. I like to stay organized and try to keep important/meaningful topics where I can find them easily. I’ve grown quite comfortable with this note-making “system” – cuz Word docs I can change to follow an “update to my belief system” or opinion shift – better than having something permanent written in a Bible…Also a good way to read a familiar passage with fresh eyes – not only in an alternate translation but also I’m not looking at the same old teaching or "research" note next to a passage. Now commentaries, systematic theologies, Biblical studies that I own I mark up like crazy – highlight – even make my own index at the front to find pages where there was something really significant to a study project. Kindle Bibles and books are great too – especially since my wife says if I buy more books I’ll have to build another wing to the house – but I tell her we could have Twig there too.

Well maybe because there is no connection between wierwille and Gurdjieff ! It’s hilarious how much you’re pushing this. I wonder – are you an avid contributor on QAnon / 4Chan forums? Seems like you’re wasting your time here. Are you bored? did you get laid off by Q Anon? Hey, I’ve got an idea Back up and punt! And by that, I mean quit acting like an incessant troll, ditch the duplicity, don’t hide behind little trolling bi+ch antics man up and YOU start a thread about George Gurdjieff (look I even gave you a link so you can do some homework ) and YOUR theory of a wierwille connection and STAY on topic. You’re terrible at being an armchair analyst of the way corps program for several reasons: You don’t know what you’re talking about You have never been in the corps You obviously have an ax to grind – for whatever selfish reasons that drive your trolling actions - one of which is probably blaming the way corps as a scapegoat for whatever is screwed up with TWI – it’s a distraction to protect your precious wierwille / PFAL You’re grabbing at straws for what you think might neutralize criticism levied at wierwille – but you’re too obvious in your intent to distract. Saying “Craig obviously read Gurdjieff” is pure speculation on your part. You don’t know! As a matter of fact, anyone can make a case for connecting cult-leaders to manipulative tactics – because harmful and controlling cult-leaders do tend to think alike. You need to reflect on the bed you’ve made here – you’ve lost all credibility – the thrusts of most of your posts reveal you have more admiration for a lying-thieving-plagiarizing-control-freak-sexual-predator like wierwille than for the Lord Jesus Christ and the sanctity of His Church. You ought to be ashamed - that's if you're even a Christian...I have my doubts.

Shortly after I left TWI, I read two fascinating books (links below – note some are newer editions than the ones I have); fyi I got more out of the 2nd one Beyond Seduction because the author got into the health and wealth gospel, law of believing, positive affirmations: The Seduction of Christianity: Spiritual Discernment in the Last Days by Dave Hunt & T.A. McMahon Beyond Seduction: A Return to Biblical Christianity by Dave Hunt

Which just goes to show you, if you wait around long enough after the class is over all your questions will be answered. Are the dead alive now? Yup – we’re still here! Good to hear from you – thanks for stopping by – hope to see you again soon, jr4jc

I am...you're the one making excuses for wierwille and his $hitty doctrine...oh - you take it personal - it's not about you - it's about wierwille are you channeling wierwille? why do you get so agitated when someone rightfully criticizes wierwille and his devilish doctrines?

that's it - shift the blame to "the adversary". In the New Testament there are more warnings to beware of deceitful people - especially those who sneak into the church said it before and I'll say it again - the way corps was wierwille's baby - he controlled it with an iron fist...you have never been - so you don't know what you're talking about ! My two years in residence was having PFAL drummed into my head...oh wait - you think PFAL is the gold standard. well now you know why the corps program was so fvcked up - it was based on PFAL I think you're in denial about your "father-n-the-word" being a control freak, plagiarizer, sexual predator, and pathological liar - so you demonize the way corps program THAT WAS HIS BABY! the reason it's all screwed up is because it was all based on fvcked up wierwille and his screwed-up ideology Mike, Mike you're in denial bro' yeah - well think about it - Jesus Christ is the head of the church - when there's cult-leaders that teach he's absent - they're doing the devil's work by teaching their own screwed up ideology - like PFAL instead of wimping out - commit to Jesus Christ as your lord instead of wierwille's collaterals...get rid of wierwille's screwed-up ideology. Do you realize that you exhibit more loyalty to wierwille/ PFAL on Grease Spot than you do to Jesus Christ and the message of the gospel? My God, man don't you even see how you've been tricked by wierwille the con artist. you see - you're going off topic...and you don't know what you're talking about! quit trying to deflect the blame...there's no angle to work...address this head on - way corps = wierwille's baby it's fvcked up because it's his baby - it's got his DNA!

107. B. wierwille is self-appointed distributor of the abilities of the Holy Spirit. Part B: The simplicity of the Holy Spirit’s way. This part was so easy to write because I’m just going to point out a few passages in Corinthians 12 and leave the rest up to you and the Holy Spirit . I’m not trying to avoid explaining the simplicity of the Holy Spirit’s way. This isn’t based on self-determination once you learn certain steps, like what wierwille led many to believe…as if a man in-person, in a book or speaking in an audio or video PFAL class could confer on you a supernatural ability or teach you how to exercise it. Also keep in mind, I Corinthians 12, 13, & 14 address primarily varieties in speaking gifts. A case can be made that certain of these gifts were limited to the apostolic age to authenticate the apostles and their gospel message. We have God’s written Word - its unique origin, purpose, authority besides being superintended by the Holy Spirit endow it with a self-authenticating feature. The Word of God has authority in itself, and consequently does not rely upon external sources to verify its infallibility. (remember in an earlier post I explained the difference between infallibility and inerrancy - here ) There are other gifts of the Spirit intended for service see: Romans 12:3-8 I Corinthians 7:7 Ephesians 4:7-16 I Peter 4:11 Spiritual gifts refer to abilities energized by the Holy Spirit and used in service to the church. For the sake of brevity rather than going back and forth comparing what wierwille wrote to what the biblical text states – I will mention in passing a few of his dubious comments and simply post some parallel passages. My point is to show the simplicity of the Holy Spirit’s way – as it’s simply put in I Peter 4:11: Amplified Bible Whoever speaks [to the congregation], is to do so as one who speaks the oracles (utterances, the very words) of God. Whoever serves [the congregation] is to do so as one who serves by the strength which God [abundantly] supplies, so that in all things God may be glorified [honored and magnified] through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. You don’t have to take classes or have someone teach you how to exercise these gifts – Peter says to just get busy speaking or serving by the power which God supplies. ~ ~ ~ ~ 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. I Corinthians 12 Verses 4 to 7 inform us that the Holy Spirit alone supernaturally and sovereignly bestows abilities on all believers for the common good. It’s not the work of some minister…not from a book or video class! In the following translation i marked in bold red the references to the Holy Spirit being in charge of the distribution: 4Now there are [distinctive] varieties of spiritual gifts [special abilities given by the grace and extraordinary power of the Holy Spirit operating in believers], but it is the same Spirit [who grants them and empowers believers]. 5And there are [distinctive] varieties of ministries and service, but it is the same Lord [who is served]. 6And there are [distinctive] ways of working [to accomplish things], but it is the same God who produces all things in all believers [inspiring, energizing, and empowering them]. 7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit [the spiritual illumination and the enabling of the Holy Spirit] for the common good. 8To one is given through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] the message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] the word of knowledge and understanding according to the same Spirit; 9to another [wonder-working] faith [is given] by the same [Holy] Spirit, and to another the [extraordinary] gifts of healings by the one Spirit; 10and to another the working of [a]miracles, and to another prophecy [foretelling the future, speaking a new message from God to the people], and to another discernment of spirits [the ability to distinguish sound, godly doctrine from the deceptive doctrine of man-made religions and cults], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. 11All these things [the gifts, the achievements, the abilities, the empowering] are brought about by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, distributing to each one individually just as He chooses. I Corinthians 12 Amplified you might remember from the PFAL class, wierwille likened the holy spirit (and in his written work he used lower case “h” and “s” to make a distinction it was something separate from God) to a car battery – one power source that energized all the electrical components in an automobile. He also stressed that they were distributed as each Christian chooses – according to their believing. In PFAL he spends a lot of time in several sessions to go through instances in the book of Acts that mention speaking in tongues – but the verses do not indicate any instructions on the mechanics of speaking in tongues were taught. And he goes into other passages to alleviate fears and doubts – but the passages do not address speaking in tongues. wierwille usually had a tendency to overcomplicate things and had the audacity to set himself up as the master of ceremonies for introducing followers to his idea of speaking in tongues. We read in The Way: Living in Love wierwille appointed himself distributor of the abilities of the Holy Spirit. Just like his teaching of “the Word takes the place of the absent Christ”, wierwille also marginalized the Holy Spirit…The book of Peter mentions the possibility of false prophets and false teachers arising in the church…ignoring…denying the immanent lordship of Jesus Christ, introducing insidious destructive heresies - and in their greed they will exploit Christians with deceptive claims and perverse doctrine: 1But [in those days] false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will subtly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways, and because of them the way of truth will be maligned. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false arguments and twisted doctrine. Their sentence [of condemnation which God has decreed] from a time long ago is not idle [but is still in force], and their destruction and deepening misery is not asleep [but is on its way]. II Peter 2 End of Part B: The simplicity of the Holy Spirit’s way ~ ~ ~ ~

me too! I loved his TV show My daughter and I got into the Charlie's Angels movies - Bernie played Bosley in the CA: Full Throttle - one of my favorite parts is when he's trying to infiltrate these shady Irish dock workers - Bernie pulls up with a forklift and the security dude checks his ID - and has this doubtful look on his face - Bernie says "I'm Black Irish"

hode up ! hode up! did you just say mid-20th century Merica?

yeah and if you think about it Paul lived in a male dominated culture - and wierwille even outdoes that