T-Bone

Shingles is the new determinism Are you an anti-vaxxer? Shingles doesn’t care. Do you have dual citizenship of U.S. and New York? Shingles doesn’t care. Do you have overdue library books? Shingles doesn’t care. Are you born-again of the wrong seed? Shingles doesn’t care. Have you made any posts on this thread? Shingles doesn’t care. Did you just win the lottery? Shingles doesn’t care. Are you going to abundantly share of your lottery winnings? Shingles doesn't care. Do you like $hit on a shingle? Shingles doesn’t care. I've got blisters on my fingers! Shingles doesn't care. Do you think free willy is an illusion? Shingles doesn't care. Do you hate long and silly posts? Shingles doesn't care.

This is one of their most effective control tactics. I think one of the strongest “gravitational pulls” that kept me in line was a fear of what could happen to me or my family if I left…tripped out or copped out. I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps. wierwille’s go-to passage for instilling fear in devoted followers was John 13 - Jesus predicts his betrayal during an evening meal with the disciples, then “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.” (verse 30). wierwille adapted John’s frequent use of something having double meaning – wierwille elaborated on “it was night” for his own fearmongering - stating unequivocally that the only alternative to the ministry that taught you the rightly divided word was oblivion. You walk out on wierwille/TWI it will be night! spiritual darkness. Really bad things happen under the cover of night. whenever I thought of my future – I could never imagine leaving TWI. The possibility of tripping out / copping out was not a viable option. Thinking of a scenario like that was almost like entertaining thoughts of suicide, or what catastrophes would befall my wife and kids if I tripped out. My life, my dreams, my identity, my hopes, my family’s safety, and security were all wrapped up in my being loyal to the ministry. Harmful and controlling cults are really crafty fvckers – they exploit primal fears and leave it up to us to construct our own mental prisons.

Rocky recommended a really cool book Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived by Rob Bell a while back and started a thread about the book [ to get an idea of the book check out this thread – here ] . I’ve read it a couple of times – it’s one of my new favorites. Come to think of it – interesting you brought it up on this thread cuz Love Wins opened my eyes to see God’s love is immeasurably bigger than I could conceive of…You might find some answers and comfort to your concern…and in chapter 6 the author’s scripture references got me to rethink of the pervasive presence and influence of Jesus Christ in the world.

So true – TWI is the worst place to look for marriage counseling…and in general, the impact that a harmful and controlling cult has on the individual, couples, marriages, and families is always intriguing to me…there’s so many variables to factor in and human beings are so complex it becomes an ever-developing story. I get into it for several reasons: isolate and identify problems. Sort out personal issues , figure out the self-induced problems, the bad habits and dubious mindset I adopted when in TWI…it’s a huge project I tend to overthink stuff . Getting back to simple things like a relationship with Jesus Christ seems to help. what is so frustrating about being married and having a family while being involved with a pseudo-Christian cult is that I got stressed out with wondering why there was so much friction and failure since I thought we were following Jesus Christ. But I was following wierwille’s “the word” aka PFAL which for all practical purposes takes the place of Christ. I think that was the biggest factor in most of my problems. For me, having personal issues, undeveloped cognitive skills, and bad habits before joining a harmful and controlling cult were only made worse by the TWI mindset and lifestyle. - - - - - Start out with the human condition – no one is perfect…this world is not perfect…take a schlep like me for example. Raised in an honest, hardworking but dysfunctional family with a close bond, in the Roman Catholic faith. In my teens got into music, art and the counterculture of the 60s and 70s. I was definitely seeking something – exactly what I don’t know…maybe just the typical coming of age quest…what is truth? What’s it all about? TWI appealed to me because they claimed to have definitive answers for just about everything in life. I was involved in TWI for 12 years. Some stuff about my personality got “hijacked” in a sense. wierwille’s / PFAL’s disparaging mainstream Christianity and conventional wisdom were tantalizing to my “counterculture lifestyle” – and seemed to hold promise of me having a role in the bigger picture of changing the world. I guess there may be nothing wrong with good intentions…it depends on how you define “good” and formulate a means to that end. TWI’s touchstone for truth was wierwille’s PFAL class. The doctrines of that class were often affectionately referred to as “The Word” both by wierwille and grads of the class. We were going to take “The Word” over the world! We had “the goods” on truth and the means to spread it. I remember in some meetings of ’74 and ’75, wierwille explaining the correlation of “The Word” and PFAL: our goal was taking “The Word” over the world. It didn’t mean everyone is going to believe “The Word”. Our goal was to give everyone a chance to take PFAL. If anyone refused to take the class that was their problem. Honesty is a big deal in my family. But if you want to be a good sales rep for TWI, you must learn how to hype the PFAL class and exaggerate what you got out of it. At the time I didn’t think that was being dishonest. Being diligent and industrious is another thing about my family. But that trait of mine was commandeered by TWI – I usually felt compelled to give the ministry most of my time, energy, and resources with little left over for family. Even after I left TWI – I became a workaholic – partly to reestablish my technical career and trying to make up for being too close to poverty level for comfort. My wife and I went to professional marriage counselors and that helped sort out what should be our priorities and also my personal goals. That’s all for now…some extra credit links below: Human condition - Wikipedia Behavioural sciences - Wikipedia Counterculture of the 1960s - Wikipedia Personality psychology - Wikipedia What Is Personality Psychology? (verywellmind.com) What Is Personality? Definition, Development, and Theories (psychcentral.com) Honesty - Wikipedia The Parallels Between Cults and Dysfunctional Families • Connections in Recovery Dysfunctional Families - Framework for Cult Membership (zeolla.org) 10 Things to Know About the Psychology of Cults - Online Psychology Degree Guide

Why do you HAVE TO SAY anything about Craig’s take and expansion on scriptures ? I just have to ask – are you one of Craig’s public relations personnel?

I did not ask if those topics were still valid or how difficult they are to disprove. I asked if they were still included - or still excluded (like not giving attribution to all the sources wierwille got most of the class material from). My question can ONLY be answered HONESTLY and ACCURATELY by someone who actually took the new PFAL Today class or was involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class. So to reiterate in a more pointed form my questions to you Allan require only a “yes” or “no” answer: Did you take the new PFAL Today class? Were you involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class?

you go into edit mode - top right and click on 3 dots - you'll have options to report a post share a post - shows link to copy edit post - I think you have something like 10 hours or so from when you first posted it - after that you can't edit it. in edit mode click on the quote you want to delete - or click on near the corner of it - when you see a little box with arrows - you should be able to click on that box to delete. you can play around with Grease Spot tools on the testing forum - here's one of mine here - I believe you have to be signed in to use that forum - great for getting use to doing things on Grease Spot

I still haven’t heard from anyone who has taken PFAL Today. So, I brought my list forward (from here ) and added a few more items…To whom is this post written? Anyone who has taken PFAL today. Please let me know if the following topics are still taught in PFAL Today and if they have added any new details – like wierwille’s sources or phenomena…so…are the following items still covered in the new class: 4 crucified The Bible interprets itself To whom the Bible is written The 7 administrations The law of believing The law of giving and receiving does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother? Receive, retain, release “For this purpose, was I spared” The day Jesus Christ died Who is The Word in John 1:1 The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit People can get born again of the wrong seed The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things - know what’s available, know how to receive it , etc. you can’t go beyond what you’re taught God can only speak to what He is God can only give what He is There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session? Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from? Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille? Does the class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm? Does the class cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues? Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited? ~ ~ ~ ~ If I think of more, I’ll add on later Thank you in advance for reading this and giving it your honest attention

Wow Waysider – that never occurred to me !!!! I think you’ve got reason # 115 of why PFAL sucks…and I’ll cover your stretched coffee tab. 115. Contradictory ideas in PFAL go unnoticed due to the compartmentalization factor of the “PFAL-mindset”. In a PFAL session wierwille taught the Old Testament was not written to us – from which one can logically surmise the laws, promises, directives, and even the tithing system are not applicable to us. Yet in a class collateral, wierwille pivots by saying something along the lines of us taking advantage of the age of grace so God will do even more for us. See also Compartmentalization (psychology) - Wikipedia , Compartmentalization | Psychology Today

Yeah, I’m aware of that…I also know a charitable organization - and it varies - according to federal and state laws can be defined as a nonprofit organization that seeks to advance some public benefit – in a broad range of areas such as education, poverty alleviation, scientific research, environment, diversity, religion, and health…I guess on paper it looks like TWI is a charitable organization…just like Scientology...I just think TWI is not interested in advancing any public benefit - just filling their own pockets.

114. PFAL is part of an elaborate mooching system I was involved with the Way International for 12 years – that includes participation in the WOW missionary program and the way corps leadership training program. Now when I reflect on the operational ethics of TWI, I realize there was more of a concern over getting as much money as we could out of people’s wallets rather than how we obtained it. As leaders we were to promote this idea of spiritual reciprocity - the law of giving and receiving…the practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit. We encourage people to give to the ministry so there is a free-flowing interchange of financial / physical blessings and spiritual blessings. We stipulated there was a minimum required donation to take PFAL – “donation” as if it were an act of charity. One of the collaterals with the materials of the PFAL was Christians Should Be Prosperous. In it wierwille pushes the idea we should give above the 10% tithe. The tithing system described in the Bible was designed specifically to meet the needs of the religious, economic and political system of ancient Israel. wierwille’s argument was that as Christians, no longer under the law of the Old Testament, we should go above the tithe and thereby reap even greater blessings than Old Testament believers – his text to support that claim was Malachi 3:10 “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it”. .. If wierwille's claims were true – then followers of TWI giving more than 10% should have been the healthiest and wealthiest people around bar none...but alas such was not the case…and to be honest – – if people are motivated to be recompensed for giving – then it’s not really giving…it’s trading…it’s giving to get something in return. In the years leading up to going in the way corps, as I got more and more involved with the ministry, I often found myself envious of other Way-believers who were not as committed as I was. They seemed to have it all – families that actually took fun vacations, nice cars, nice homes, and good jobs. I was oblivious to certain values like dedication to family, being financially wise and responsible, reaping the fruits of one’s own labor and finding a sense of fulfilment in a career. I did not realize how detrimental it was to have everything about my life in orbit around The Way Ministry. I didn't think of myself as a materialistic person – but it's hard not to get caught up in it when you work for a money-grubbing ministry that is big on the prosperity doctrine. ...and we were all considered a soft-sell sales force anyway, peddling classes on the Bible in a warm market – friends, relatives, neighbors, work associates, etc. I was a reluctant salesman – partly because I wasn't completely sold on it myself. It's difficult to be enthused about promoting the more than abundant life as defined by TWI when all too often my wife and I were just barely getting by ourselves - working our secular jobs, faithfully giving more than 10 percent of our income – sometimes that even meant skimping on cost-of-living expenses. And besides that, we were also sponsoring people in the way corps program, running fellowships, classes, advances, coffee houses, and getting around town by driving clunkers (vehicles in bad condition because we were usually too financially strapped to do something about it) ...you name it – we did it – and without the financial support of TWI. TWI charged for their classes – but these were not live teachings – all classes were on audio or video cassette (the PFAL class for instance was recorded in 1967). TWI spread their skewed doctrine on the cheap. There's the folks who got people signed up for classes (sometimes even providing rides to new students to ensure their attendance), there's usually a crew to handle setup, classes are usually run in someone's home or apartment, some folks provided refreshments and coffee for breaks (long classes like PFAL were over 36 hours) were typically run at nights and/or weekends, and someone loaned their own audio or video equipment to play the class cassettes – none of that was ever covered by TWI. Number 114 of why PFAL sucks – it’s an “introductory offer” to be a part of an elaborate mooching system.

Thanks for sharing your story, Charity! I love your honesty, clarity, and courage.

For those following along at home, note Mike’s convergent techniques of dishonesty so he appears to agree and disagree at the same time. Mike uses many elements of deception…among the most significant are: 1. Mike throws in the term “mnemonic” a learning technique that aids information retention or retrieval (remembering) in the human memory for better understanding. Self-referential encoding is a method of organizing information in one's memory in which one interprets incoming information in relation to oneself, using one's self-concept as a background…by itself the technique is not troublesome – but combining fact with fiction yet being unable to differentiate between the two, makes for a very problematic form of memory organization…see also Self-referential encoding - Wikipedia and Encoding Definition (Psychology) And Its Role In Memory | BetterHelp. 2. Mike leans heavily on confirmation bias. He has a tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms and supports his beliefs and values of wierwille/PFAL is the gold standard. He often reveals his favoritism by selecting information that supports his views, ignoring contrary information, or when he interprets ambiguous evidence as supporting his current attitudes. See also Confirmation bias - Wikipedia …we all tend to have confirmation bias to some degree - but it can be better managed by developing critical thinking skills. 3. Mike has a habit of reading into a Bible text – and even PFAL material. It’s his way of explaining something in order to introduce his own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text. It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it. see also Eisegesis - Wikipedia 4. I consider Mike a master at double-speak. He likes to redefine a term – which is, of course, to assign it a new meaning. Redefinition is a sub fallacy of equivocation. Double-talk is a form of speech in which inappropriate, invented, or nonsense words are interpolated into normal speech to give the appearance of knowledge and to confuse or mislead the listener/reader. see also Double-talk - Wikipedia , Equivocation - Wikipedia and Taxonomy vs Equivocation - What's the difference? | WikiDiff

= == = = = = I’ll tell you what – if I had a dollar for every time I fell asleep reading Christians Should Be Prosperous, I would buy you a bionic arm replacement so you could play death metal while you’re in-residence again

Wow wee wow – see how fast we can get a class together when our heads are in the wrong kind of spazzed out. Which reminds me – after students regurgitate graduate and we run the follow-up session on the unforgiveable sin/wrong seed – let’s do it as an all-nighter and include the Omen quintet (not the jazz band but the horror film franchise )

Thanks So_crates! I've never heard that tune. I love her deep voice...don't have anything of hers...I'm going to have to get an album of hers

alright! a round of stretched coffee for everyone - Waysider is buying!

Please hold all your questions until the end of this thread If your questions are not answered by then you can sit (or SIT) through this whole thread again free of charge

PFAL 1967 - PFAL 77 - PFAL Today = same bull-Shonta, different days