T-Bone

is it time to release the pack?

Language is used widely when conversing ...Popeye

yes! I should clarify - wierwille's teaching of the renewed mind sounded biblical - but it was a sneaky way to manipulate folks to think the way he wanted them to - hence my reference to that corps meeting - it was a subtle way for him to get us to adjust our attitudes to mimic his good article - thanks

thanks Penworks ! great article and the reading list at the end!

Great question, Oldiesman! My short answer is yes. My longer answer is also yes – while elaborating on a few caveats and maybe deconstruct why I say what I say on Grease Spot – I’ll try to keep it brief – but you know how that goes with me. Your question made me recall one of those deep philosophical conversations we all have at times – that usually seem unremarkable in the moment…1967…after high school…waiting for the city bus in Middle Village…Steve and I were talking about our favorite bands and the exciting, creative, and adventurous life the musicians must have. Steve says something like “Do you ever wish you were Jack Bruce?” I don’t recall my exact words, but I do remember I shot back pretty quick something along the lines of – “no - that would be sad if I wasn’t into being me”. We had a good laugh over that…It’s near the end of 2022 and I still feel the same way…some things never change. I love movies that get into time-travel – one of my newer favorites is Tenet in my opinion probably one of the most thought-provoking movies in that genre Time-travel movies are such a tease – what if you get a chance at a do-over? But life doesn’t work that way. Why didn’t God resolve the big screw-up of humankind right after it happened in the Garden of Eden? Why would God create a world where people have the freedom to choose? I don’t have any answers – but I’m okay with the way things turned out so far. ~ ~ ~ ~ There’s more to our lives than the bits and pieces we all share on Grease Spot Café. We may get a sense of a certain aspect of each Grease Spotter from certain vignettes – but it’s still not the whole picture. As detailed, critical, and technical as some of my posts tend to be – one might gather that all I do in my spare time is rehash TWI-doctrine and my experiences with them…but I could easily bore you to death with all my hobbies, studies, repair projects, honey-dos, vacations, how involved we are in our kids’ lives, and maintaining the network of friends and co-workers. Stuff I share here - the life-lessons, wonderful relationships, intellectual pursuits, creative adventures, and the development of cognitive skills often have some relevance to my involvement with The Way International. I try to live by the 2 great priorities of Matthew 22: 34 – 40 - love God and others - I guess that’s my religious duty now. Speaking of guilt-trips, there’s always going to be some folks who seem like all they want to do is make me feel bad for sharing what I do. Oh well. But that’s only a 12-year segment out of 69 years. A lot of folks here have expressed some great analyses of TWI's doctrine and practices as well as some great therapeutic strategies. OutandAbout mentioned she made a pie chart of her life thus far, which showed the proportion of TWI involvement as it related to the entire scope of her life. I loved that idea – because as time goes by the TWI section gets smaller and smaller. That’s a great way to look at it…Out of habit I usually reflect on my life as before, during and after TWI – as if it was the most significant watershed moment of my entire life – like everything about me revolves around that… but with more temporal distancing from TWI a pie chart would show its diminishing part-to-whole relationship with my entire life…there’s a distinct advantage to this overview – seeing the big picture tends to put everything in proper perspective - so it's all no longer out of proportion. See OutandAbout’s pie chart thread Grease Spot Café represents just a smidgeon of my life…it’s one of the many places where I try to pass on some wisdom, warnings, and insight to others. Like what I do as a parent. We nurture our kids – help them develop strengths and skills – give them more and more opportunities to make choices – and overall do our best to prep them for a life independent of us. Speaking of parenting – check out this clip - Keanu Reeves brilliant parent speech in Parenthood

Wow – yeah, the salt covenant thing! Forgot about that…there’s nothing like a good guilt-trip to boost morale – NOT! But it is a powerful motivator – and in a religious context it can be a hard driving force – cuz you don’t want to let God down, do you? I was on the crew that looked after the corps tents during the Rock and corps week. There was one of those Noah’s flood type rainstorms that just happened suddenly – during a meeting. They had the tent rental company support team rush in there to cut a big opening in the whale-size water pocket in “roof” of tent. LCM yells from the stage don’t anyone leave the tent – I understood that to mean it was an order from God. I figured that countermanded my standing orders to go close the corps tents in the event of rain. I figured wrong according to my supervisor. I got yelled at afterwards – how I let God down. Cried my eyeballs out. I felt light $hit. Guilt-tripping someone can happen in any relationship – families, friends, work…but I think when you tie God into the mix – it ups the ante…maybe it’s the lack of feedback from an invisible God that I had to settle for some kind of response from a superior to know if I did good…I was pretty much a pushover in TWI – my self-confidence got whittled away…didn’t believe I was spiritually mature enough or had a good connection with God to think for myself . ~ ~ ~ ~ Some comments from experts on guilt-trips that you might find interesting: What Is a Guilt Trip? A guilt trip involves causing another person to feel guilt or a sense of responsibility to change their behavior or take a specific action. Because guilt can be such a powerful motivator of human behavior, people can wield it as a tool to change how others think, feel, and behave… Signs: Making comments suggesting that you have not done as much work as they have done Bringing up mistakes that you have made in the past Reminding you of favors they have performed for you in the past Acting as if they are angry but then denying that there is a problem Refusing to speak to you or giving you the silent treatment Making it clear through their body language, tone of voice, and facial expressions that they disapprove of what you were doing Suggesting that you “owe” them Engaging in passive-aggressive behavior Making sarcastic comments about your efforts or progress It is important to note that this type of indirect communication can occur in any interpersonal relationship. Still, it is more likely to take place in relationships that are marked by close emotional connections. It can show up in romantic relationships, but guilt trips may also be utilized in family relationships, parental relationships, and even work relationships… Impact of Guilt Trips Invoking feelings of guilt to change someone’s behavior can have a wide variety of effects. Whether guilt is wielded intentionally or not, it prevents healthy communication and connections with others. Some of the most immediate effects of this form of covert psychological manipulation include: Damage to Relationships Research suggests that guilt trips can take a toll on close relationships. One study found that people hurt by their partner's criticism were more likely to use those hurt feelings to make their partner feel guilty and offer reassurances. However, the study also found that the partner who had been guilt-tripped into offering assurances was more likely to feel significantly worse about the relationship. In other words, inducing feelings of guilt may work to get your partner to do what you want—but it comes at a cost. It can impair trust and cause the other person to feel that they are being manipulated… Resentment One of the reasons why guilt trips can poison relationships is because they can lead to lasting feelings of resentment. Poor Well-being Feelings of excessive guilt are associated with several mental health conditions, including anxiety, depression, and obsessive-compulsive disorder.4 Being subjected to guilt trips may contribute to the development or worsening of such conditions. Experiencing guilt can also lead to many immediate and unpleasant emotions and symptoms such as anxiety, sadness, regret, worry, muscle tension, and insomnia. This type of covert manipulation may also sometimes contribute to the development of a guilt complex, which is a persistent belief that you have done (or will do) something wrong. Over time, guilt can lead to feelings of shame. Shame can affect your self-image, which can then contribute to social withdrawal and isolation… How to Cope There are a number of tactics that can be helpful when dealing with a guilt trip. Some steps you can take include: Acknowledge the request. Let them know that you understand that it is important to them. Responding with empathy and showing that you see their needs may help them feel that they are not simply being ignored. Validating their emotions may help lessen the intensity of those feelings. Share your feelings. Explain that you also see how they are trying to make you feel guilty so that you'll do what they want. Then tell them how that type of manipulation makes you feel. Suggest that interacting in that way will lead to resentment and that more direct communication forms would be more effective. Set boundaries. Boundaries help set limits on what you will and will not accept. Even if you do end up helping them with their request, make sure you clearly articulate your limits and explain the consequences of crossing those boundaries. Then be sure that you enforce those limits if they are crossed. Other things that you can use include protecting your self-esteem and distancing yourself if needed. You're more likely to fall for a guilt trip if you already feel poorly about yourself, so find strategies to build up your sense of self-worth. If the other person keeps trying to manipulate you with feelings of guilt, reduce your communication with them or even consider ending the relationship. From: What Is a Guilt Trip? (verywellmind.com) ~ ~ ~ ~ Why is guilt a virtuous feeling in our culture? And if you don’t feel it, are you a bad parent? My husband might feel confusion, anger, and worry, but not guilt. Perhaps this has to do with biology. When you look at the moral development of men versus women, you see a lot of differences, according to the Kohlberg’s/Gilligan studies and debate: Justice-based morality is the type of thinking more likely found in men. This form of morality is the kind embraced by a person who views the world as composed of autonomous individuals interacting with one another. Their highest form of morality means avoiding inequality; these people are usually more interested in protecting individuality. Care-based morality is the kind of thinking more likely found in women. For these individuals, the emphasis is on interconnected relationships and universality. Their highest form of morality focuses on the avoidance of violence. People with this type of thinking are usually interested in helping others or doing the least harm. The most common forms of guilt are related to situations in which individuals cause harm to others. It is normal that we feel empathy for those people we may have harmed, which tends to turn into feelings of guilt when we recognize that we were responsible for their suffering. The greater presence of this component among women, above all those aged between 40 and 50, explains the marked differences in the intensity of habitual guilt in this age group. Think of it in evolutionary terms. There are differences in brain development between men and women. Man, throughout evolution, was prized for being strong and able to convince a woman of childbearing years that he was superior to all the other males. This was so he could gain her favor, and therefore spread his genetic code to the next generation. Individuality and strength in males were often prized, while women’s social skills were rewarded. This is because women had to spend nearly one year of their lives pregnant and another year nursing a child. This placed the female in a very vulnerable position. To ensure their survival and not get robbed of the investment they made in their offspring, women had to rely on social relationships and the protection of those around them. They formed very tight-knit bonds with members of their communities, whether it be the father of their child or community elders. Therefore, for women, choosing to be independent was not as prized as developing very strong and intense social bonds, which was, in turn, rewarded through their dopamine systems. This is what you see today in teenage girls. Social relationships are everything; even a new text from a friend lights them up with pleasure. How does this relate to guilt? Women feel more guilt (and, specifically, mommy guilt!) than men because they are always worried about how their choices impact their social relationships. They know they need to work and practice self-care, but they worry about the consequences on their child and the diversion of their attention. They are always looking to make decisions with the least negative consequences. Men know they need to work, and they think about the justice of that: “I can provide for my child and give them a better life.” Children are with their mom or babysitter, so for many men, no guilt is necessary, as they know they are giving their child a good life. However, there is a purpose for mommy guilt. Guilt is a major force to make people pay attention to other people. So, Mom might feel guilt but also dish it out to others. Guilt may make Dad clean the house, get the kids to do chores, or have the older kids home for Sunday dinner. All of that is for the greater good to keep the family together. As for the “mommy guilt,” moms should all stop with the “shoulds.” “I should do more for my kids. I should spend more time with them. I should play more games with them. I should have more time to go to the gym.” I should, I should, I should. It’s a never-ending barrage, and you can never win. Maybe we moms should take a lesson from the dads and think about the benefits of choosing to work. Working means that you can provide a good home for your kids and be a role model. At the end of the day, just make sure the time you can spend with your kids counts and forget about all the rest. From The Guilt Trip | Psychology Today

The main difference that I see is that in stoicism one goes through hardships alone, relying on one’s own willpower. A follower of Christianity is never alone, per the numerous passages that indicate God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit...for example: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, Romans 8 ~ ~ ~ ~ In my opinion, the Way Mag article you posted seems to emphasize one’s own willpower and knowledge of the Bible – in that regard I think it closely resembles stoicism where one represses or ignores feelings and endures pain. The article keeps bringing the solution back to a knowledge of the Bible...problem with that is our knowledge could be faulty, or we forget or deliberately disregard a passage that might be most applicable to our situation. I see problems in that. The propensity to be dogmatic about the Bible – especially in a group like TWI that leans heavily toward fundamentalism – there is the danger of repressing or ignoring the influence of the Holy Spirit – which at times can be subtle – a gut feeling – an intuition. In TWI I was repeatedly reminded to ignore feelings and repress emotions. wierwille’s twisted interpretation and misapplication of Scripture had more authority than one’s own conscience. It didn’t seem to faze wierwille one bit to show a porn video to our family corps - under the pretext of prepping us to counsel others. Setting aside the inappropriateness in this man-of-god-teacher/students scenario he callously ignored the offended and freaked out feelings that were unmistakable in most of us – dismissing it with saying stuff like “I’ve so renewed my mind that this stuff doesn’t bother me.” I think wierwille’s idea of the renewed mind is more along the lines of mind control. ~ ~ ~ ~ I think there are some similarities between Christianity and Stoicism as far as philosophical concepts go: The apostle Paul met with Stoics during his stay in Athens, reported in Acts 17:16–18. In his letters, Paul reflected heavily from his knowledge of Stoic philosophy, using Stoic terms and metaphors to assist his new Gentile converts in their understanding of Christianity.[54] This is seen, for example, in 1 Corinthians 11, in which Paul enjoins the ordinance of headcovering with a cloth veil by appealing to nature in a reductio ad absurdum: "if there is something especially suitable about a woman’s head being covered, then she should be glad to wear a headcovering in addition to the long hair."[55] Stoic influence can also be seen in the works of St. Ambrose, Marcus Minucius Felix, and Tertullian.[56] The Fathers of the Church regarded Stoicism as a "pagan philosophy";[57][58] nonetheless, early Christian writers employed some of the central philosophical concepts of Stoicism. Examples include the terms "logos", "virtue", "Spirit", and "conscience".[29] But the parallels go well beyond the sharing and borrowing of terminology. Both Stoicism and Christianity assert an inner freedom in the face of the external world, a belief in human kinship with Nature or God, a sense of the innate depravity—or "persistent evil"—of humankind,[29] and the futility and temporary nature of worldly possessions and attachments. Both encourage Ascesis with respect to the passions and inferior emotions, such as lust, and envy, so that the higher possibilities of one's humanity can be awakened and developed. Stoic writings such as Meditations by Marcus Aurelius have been highly regarded by many Christians throughout the centuries. The Eastern Orthodox Church and Oriental Orthodox Church accept the Stoic ideal of dispassion to this day. Middle and Roman Stoics taught that sex is just within marriage, for unitive and procreative purposes only.[59][60] This teaching is accepted by the Catholic Church to this day.[61] Saint Ambrose of Milan was known for applying Stoic philosophy to his theology. From: Stoicism - Wikipedia

great - just great !!!! I was going more for the shock and awe thing you've got a great plot for a murder-mystery. initially everyone thought the victim was killed by electrocution. but the smart detective who was an ex-TWI follower realized the TV monitor was still on the edge of the tub and playing the same session that he always fell asleep to.

and as another safety tip never watch the PFAL class while in the bathtub

Yes - heretical doctrine can do harm to oneself and others. Consider what Jesus said in Matthew – and note His concern for eternal consequences to the individual: Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. Matthew 23:15 Amplified ~ ~ ~ ~ At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. 6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. From: Matthew 18 NIV - The Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven - Bible Gateway ~ ~ ~ ~ Here’s some interesting excerpts in a June 18th, 2020, article by the Lead Pastor Mike Leake at FBC Marionville in Marionville, Missouri – it’s fascinating how close these are to some of TWI’s deviations from mainstream Christianity: According to dictionary.com, the following is a breakdown of the common definition of "heresy": opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, especially of a church or religious system. the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church. any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc… Heresy is not the same as error. Heresy is the choice to abandon the widely accepted teaching on an essential doctrine and embrace one’s own view. Heresy is to “preach another gospel”, as Paul stated in Galatians 1:9: "As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Technically speaking something is not a heresy just because the church deemed it so. It is heretical because it is a teaching which has abandoned the “pattern of sound teaching”. Here are four heresies which aren't quite dead yet: 1. The Heresy of Judaizers: "Good deeds or efforts contribute to salvation." One of the first groups of heretics were the Judaizers. Most heretics come from an attempt to tie together paradoxes in the Scriptures. They begin well-meaningly but take things further than they ought to go. The Judaizers began by asking the right question about the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. When uncircumcised Gentiles began following Christ and claiming the promises to Israel, these life-long Jews wondered how the Old Testament laws applied to non-Jewish followers of Jesus. Did they have to become circumcised and follow Jewish customs in order to be equal members with the Jewish Christians? This well-meaning question was addressed in Acts 15 by the Jerusalem Council. The answer was that Christ had fulfilled the Old Testament and was setting aside the old categories. As Paul summarized in Ephesians 2:15 God was “abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace…” It was union with Christ and not works of the law that qualified a person for the promises of God. The Judaizers did not accept this answer and gave Paul issues in all of his missionary travels. The fundamental problem of this heresy: Their fundamental problem was that they held that something other than union with Christ was necessary for salvation. According to a recent study by Lifeway and Ligonier, 36% of self-identified evangelicals believed that “by the good deeds that I do, I partly contribute to earning my place in heaven”. This is the same belief as the Judaizers held. Any belief which holds that our good deeds or efforts contribute to salvation is firmly in the same stream as the Judaizers. ~ ~ ~ ~ 2. The Heresy of Docetism/Gnosticism: “Christ only appeared to be human.” Another early heresy was Gnosticism. Though Gnosticism had various forms one of the most pernicious—and one that is still present today—is Docetism. Docetism was an early Christological heresy which taught that Christ only appeared to be human. The foundation of Gnostic philosophy was that all physical matter was evil and all things spiritual were good. Therefore it was unthinkable that God would actually take upon human flesh. This belief also led to either severe asceticism (punishing the flesh) or licentiousness (since the physical had no connection with the eternal). Most believe the apostle John had a docetic form of Gnosticism in his sights in the writing of 1 John. The Bible is clear, “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.” Spiritual and Physical Importance In our day it’s likely more common for people to deny the deity of Jesus than his humanity. Yet the dualism of Gnosticism/Docetism is alive and well. Christian Science and New Age have a strong bent towards Docetism, but the truth is, anytime we exalt the spiritual above the physical we too are falling prey to the dualism of these philosophies. Our bodies matter. This world matters. To deny this is to agree more with early Gnostics than the Bible. ~ ~ ~ ~ 3. Prosperity Gospel Heresy The ancient form of this modern heresy didn’t really have a name, but it appears in 1 Corinthians 4:8-13. In this text Paul speaks tongue in cheek about those in Corinth who have “already become kings”. The Corinthians believed that they were living in the blessings that are reserved for the future. To steal a popular phrase the Corinthians believed that they were to begin living their best life now. They believed true things but applied them at the wrong time. They wished to acquire on earth what should be sought in heaven. Thinking that’s only true in the age to come. This quote from prosperity gospel teacher Kenneth Hagin would have been right at home with the Corinthians: “I believe that it is the plan of God our Father that no believer should ever be sick…It is not—I state boldly—it is not the will of God my Father that we should suffer with cancer and other dread diseases which bring pain and anguish. No! It is God’s will that we be healed.” The problem, as Paul taught the Corinthians, is that such thinking is only true in the age to come. There is no crown without a cross. This modern iteration of an ancient heresy is deadly. It harms those who are suffering, it detracts from the gospel and breeds cynicism when promises which God never made do not come true. ~ ~ ~ ~ 4. The Heresy of Pelagianism: “God responds to us and not the other way around.” “Look at that innocent baby”? I doubt we realize we are affirming heresy when we say such a thing. Likewise when 83% of evangelicals affirmed the statement, “A person obtains peace with God by first taking the initiative to seek God and then God responds with grace”, I doubt they intended to affirm heresy. But it’s true. Pelagianism is a heresy from the time of Augustine (and it’s other form Semi-Pelagianism) which refuses to die. Pelagius was bothered by a quote by Augustine who said, ““Grant what Thou commandest, and command what Thou dost desire.” Pelagius believed that such teaching was leading to immorality. He believed Augustine was so exalting divine sovereignty that he was denying human responsibility. The Flawed Logic of Pelagius Pelagius’ logic was that if God commanded something then humans must have the ability to carry it out. He further taught there is no such thing as original sin. We are born with a clean slate, according to Pelagius. Augustine did not deny that humans were created with freedom of will. Humans can do exactly what they desire. Yet, because of the fall of humanity, apart from grace, will always desire evil. Augustine turned to Philippians 2:12-13 to defend his view of grace. It is God who is at work in us “both to will and to accomplish”. It wasn’t grace, per se, that Pelagius had a hard time with. It was necessary grace that he could not swallow. Therefore, Pelagius firmly believed that God responds to us and not the other way around. Apparently, 83% of professing evangelicals agree. From: What is Heresy? 4 Examples Still Alive in the Church Today (crosswalk.com)

yet another take... ...on Pinocchio watched this one recently - I liked it - quirky...a little dark...some very interesting adult themes...2 thumbs up

great post, Waysider that makes a lot of sense of how things actually evolved

Jesus summarized the entire Jewish law with love - love for God and love for others . He did NOT simplify the law. There is a difference! Jesus spoke of the first and great commandment and the second is like unto it - to love God and to love neighbor - He said the entire law and the prophets hang on that. That is a summary- He indicated all prohibitions to sin - i.e., to NOT commit adultery, to NOT lie, to NOT steal, etc., He recapitulated all the main points of the law showing how they all relate to loving God and neighbor. In PFAL wierwille taught it WRONG! He simplified it - he said Jesus reduced all the law down to just 2 commandments. To reduce or simplify is to eliminate or lessen components. Knowing about wierwille’s moral depravity, it makes perfect sense he would like to blur boundaries and obfuscate what is right and wrong. There’s no specifics…it’s left up to the individual to determine what is right and wrong….That’s how he could commit unconscionable acts and rationalize sin out of it by saying “anything done in the love of God is okay” Jesus didn’t teach THAT! He summarized! It’s like He drew a big umbrella over all the specific prohibitions and said the love for God and others are the prime directives - that love covers every scenario! If you love God and others you should not commit adultery, you should not lie, steal, etc. Love was the basis for the law! The summary does not eliminate any components - it merely gives the big picture of how we conduct our lives should always reflect loving God and others.

There was a strong sense of religious duty that kept me involved for 12 years in the pseudo-Christian cult, The Way International Rock of Ages 1978 Bob M. was walking the grounds recruiting attendees to go W.O.W. He asked me “Have you thought about going W.O.W.?” I replied, “I’ve already been W.O.W. a couple of years ago – and I’m married now and have a cat.” Bob snapped back “You know you can go W.O.W. again – with your experience you might even be a W.O.W. coordinator this time.” When I talked to my wife about going W.O.W. again (FYI she was in my W.O.W. family btw, got married after our year was up) she looked at me like I was nuts – and thank God, she talked me down. And it’s not like we had a spectacular year – but we stuck it out – being faithful to a commitment - and that's a big deal in TWI. Further down the road we decided to go in the 11th way corps program. But my wife got pregnant and so we put that off for a few years – finally going into the 11th Family Corps. FYI - we had to leave our cat with her dad - cats are not considered corps material. ~ ~ ~ ~ It was not like I was getting so much out of PFAL, or any of the other classes, TWI-doctrine in general, or any of their programs. Most of that was bait-and-switch stuff anyway – and some biblical-sounding fluff thrown in for good measure. The beneficial claims and hype held so much promise – but it was all relative to my believing. ~ ~ ~ ~ Probably the biggest factor that kept me involved in a pseudo-Christian cult for 12 years was a sense of religious duty. A motivating awareness of responsibility. I felt I owed something to God and the ministry that taught me “The Word”. Even before I took PFAL I began to develop a serious concern for getting back to authentic Christianity. The girl that got me signed up for the class shared from the TWI-authorized book one of wierwille’s significant supernatural experiences. On page 178 of “The Way Living in Love” she read this to me: “I was praying. And I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on. And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others. Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me.” The subtle implication of wierwille’s claim shifts the Bible’s mandates away from the text-in-context and onto wierwille’s assumed authority. Considering wierwille’s claim that God would teach him “the Word” as it had not been known since the first century – it is worth noting that Christians back in that apostolic age had no Bible – the New Testament had not been written and the Septuagint was not circulated. But that never occurred to me back then. There’s a lot of factors in play to keep people trapped in a pseudo-Christian cult – and they vary depending on one’s makeup, needs and goals: love-bombing, intimidation, isolation, fear of punishment from God, fulfilling the need to belong, etc. A sense of religious duty is a real sneaky one though. I brought it on myself – I had a strong drive to follow the direction of wierwille and LCM because I felt it was what God wanted me to do. Even if some stuff didn’t make sense to me or was inconvenient – I figured that’s what faith was all about. ~ ~ ~ ~ See also: Why People Stay Trapped in Cults: Survey | Cult Escape (cult-escape.com) 10 Psychological Reasons Why People Join Cults - Listverse 5 reasons why "normal" people join cults - and why they stay - The Tempest Why Did NXIVM Members Stay? The Psychology Of Cults (refinery29.com) Why do people stay in cults after they have joined? - Quora

All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. John 16 ~ ~ ~ ~ Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. I Timothy 1 ~ ~ ~ ~ Today I was reading these passages and reflected on all the times I heard wierwille and LCM vilify mainstream Christianity. At the time, it never occurred to me that what they did was wrong – or that I was just as wrong to support them and their anti-Christian ideology. Christ was missing from The Way International – and it wasn’t that Christ left – but that pseudo-Christian cult leaders excluded Him and His followers from their ministry. When I appear before Him in judgement, I plan to use Paul’s plea of ignorance and unbelief for my defense…and hope for the best.

The interpolation should be about the same differences as the bull-Shonta

I don’t recall that Wonder if wierwille was envious of someone who had a legitimate Doctor title - seems like typical wierwille character assassination though

Yes - and there's some of that fearmongering in there too - anything wierwille wanted you to avoid he would slap a label on it - it's a devil spirit...they are devil possessed...they're wrong seed...they're under demonic oppression.

Yes, I do remember the reason that OldSkool mentioned – I also remember another reason – but I’m fuzzy on who said it – I believe it was either wierwille or LCM…and it was along the lines of there’s a devil spirit named “Jesus” – and I think they cited the following passages: New International Version For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. II Corinthians 11:4 6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:6 – 9 ~ ~ ~ ~ That’s pretty ironic, in light of this thread topic. Paul’s beef with those who opposed him wasn’t anything personal – Paul would not stand for anyone misrepresenting the gospel of Jesus Christ [note the word “pervert” in Gal. 1:7]. What comes to mind is wierwille in PFAL session 1 – he presents Jesus Christ as the key to health and wealth. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the message of the good news of salvation offered to humankind by grace through faith in the finished works of Christ on the cross. The good news is that we don't have to suffer the punishment for sin. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ in a nutshell - God provided the way for humankind to be freed from the penalty of sin. Of course, TWI isn’t the only group that pushes a prosperity gospel. I guess it’s great for a marketing tool – but I wonder how many of those folks would be interested if all that Christianity offered was just Jesus Christ. In the PFAL class, Jesus Christ is like the window dressing in the storefront of a pseudo-Christian-one-stop-shop for all your “Christian needs”. Everything in the store seems to have designer label looking merchandise – but it’s all knockoffs intended to look like something they’re not…kind of a bait-and-switch thing. You go into PFAL looking for truth – but you get PFAL is the touchstone for truth…Maybe you went into PFAL looking to learn more about Jesus Christ and to develop a deeper relationship with Him – but you were taught “the Word” [or rather wierwille’s interpretation of the Bible] takes the place of the absent Christ. Well, you’re all set! You went into the pseudo-Christian-one-stop-shop for all your “Christian needs” with only $100 and you came out with lots of designer label looking merchandise. Oh boy! Make sure you take advantage of the subscription service – as a member of The Way International you’ll enjoy contributing at least 15% of your income and can take the PFAL class again for free – as long as you help with setup, driving new students to and from class, and chipping in for coffee. You’ll also earn infernal reward points, good toward allowing you to make the minimum required donation to other classes…Just because Christ is absent doesn’t mean your generosity should be.

I'm just clownin' around... ...this ain't my first rodeo

For Whom the Bell Trolls A story of intrigue and annoyance at the concierge desk of a cheap hotel One of the guests is intent on driving employees stark raving mad

118. to inflame desire but provide no means of satisfaction is not only deceptive – it’s frustrating Do you remember the claims on the back of the PFAL signup card? Makes life meaningful…enables you to separate truth from error…develops more harmony in the home…disciplines the mind by believing…teaches how to pray effectually Reason # 118 of why PFAL sucks is also why the whole enchilada – The Way International sucks. In talk about all they have to offer - and it's practically stated as a guarantee (depending on your believing, of course ) in their classes, books, events, doctrines, programs - there is always such hype…such promise – but ultimately no delivery. For a supposedly Christian organization, The Way International might be one of the least favorable environmental conditions under which a Christian can grow – and for one’s cognitive skills to survive.

How come every time we serve shepherd’s pie there’s a food fight?

The Garden of Eden narrative is universally compelling because it tells of a paradise within humanity’s potentialities. The gut-wrenching decision of the first couple, so very “human” in its impulsiveness yet so very tragic in its consequences, grieves us, infuriates us, leaves us pining for “paradise lost.” Beneath the surface narrative, however, the story poses the crucial problem of human existence; unaided human beings cannot create paradise. Flawed and limited, they cannot oversee and ensure justice and wholeness; they cannot even tame the monster within themselves. Paradise comes at a cost. To live there, one must submit to the rule of an other, the owner of the garden. This is an essential feature of paradise; Do we choose to live in the garden and submit to the master? Or do we choose our own reign and face expulsion? Those willing to submit find wholeness and intimacy; those who choose otherwise echo the defiant sentiment of the fallen archangel, who in John Milton’s words proclaims, “Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav’n.” From page 249 of Old Testament Theology: An Exegetical, Canonical, and Thematic Approach by Bruce K. Waltke & Charles Yu

Behold I show you another mystery… LCM as the president of a supposedly Christian organization - referred to people with special needs as freaks of nature. BUT In legal usage in the English-speaking world, an act of God is a natural hazard outside human control, such as an earthquake or tsunami, for which no person can be held responsible. An act of God may amount to an exception to liability in contracts (as under the Hague–Visby Rules) or it may be an "insured peril" in an insurance policy. See Acts of God Sample Clauses: 769 Samples | Law Insider I wonder if folks in TWI can see any problems in the juxtaposition of LCM’s statement to insurance underwriters The term freak of nature means monstrosity, a malformation, abnormal. In show business, it may refer to a person or an animal on exhibition as showing some strange deviation from nature, such as a bearded woman or an albino. See Freak-of-nature Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary Why would a supposed Christian leader use such a derogative term – especially in the context of training Christian leaders [LCM said this at a corps night teaching session] ? It sounds like something a rank unbeliever would say – from the viewpoint of a person who doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of God. Like someone unfamiliar with all the passages in the Bible that encourage us to care for the weak and the poor. Strange that insurance underwriters usually acknowledge the existence of God.