T-Bone

To this day the reason The Way International continues with the 'whitewash program' - is to conceal the unpleasant fact that it is STILL a pseudo-Christian organization…NOT based on the person and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ - but on the challenging counterfeit, wierwille! 50 years ago, if you would have asked me “how would you like to learn about God and the Bible by following a hypocritical unabashed plagiarist delusional megalomaniac malignant narcissist money-grubbing chain-smoking drunkard misogynistic sexual predator who will exploit you until you’re all used up?” I probably would have responded by saying “no thanks, if that’s what God and the Bible are all about, I’ll look elsewhere.” ~ ~ ~ ~ There’s a time coming when all those who have misled others will have to answer for their crimes: At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. 6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! Matthew 18

Hence the reason The Way International continues with the whitewash program - to conceal the unpleasant fact that it is STILL a pseudo-Christian organization…NOT based on the person and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ - but on the challenging counterfeit, wierwille! 50 years ago, if you would have said to me “how would you like to learn about God and the Bible by following a hypocritical unabashed plagiarist delusional megalomaniac malignant narcissist money-grubbing chain-smoking drunkard misogynistic sexual predator who will exploit you until you’re all used up?” I probably would have responded by saying “no thanks, if that’s what God and the Bible are all about, I’ll look elsewhere.” ~ ~ ~ ~ There’s a time coming when all those who have misled others will have to answer for their crimes: At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. 6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! Matthew 18

Those events usually don’t end well

I skimmed through Losing the Way – and couldn’t find it…it’s been a long time since I read it anyway…just to be clear the lady who told me that was not Kristen…and I’m sure there’s been similar situations like the one that was described to me.

DWBH was one of the first former-upper-leadership (he was trunk coordinator) I talked to, before I officially resigned from TWI. It was an unusual conversation because it was peer to peer - not me as a branch coordinator talking to a superior - not even corps to corps - but just two believers sorting through a complicated mess. This was a looooooong phone conversation. We covered a lot of ground. Btw , years later we met again at the GSC Texas BBQ and he was the same - lively, down to earth, funny, wise and a great memory for details…anyway… One of the things I wanted to verify with DWBH were these bits and pieces of a different side of wierwille that came to light from other former clergy I had talked to (after the infamous clergy meeting a lot of clergy and spouses were talking about some bad $hit that went on). One such incident was an area coordinator’s wife told me of the time wierwille was staying at a limb home (? - can’t remember the exact place) and she walked by hall bathroom and the door was open - wierwille was standing in there wearing nothing but a bathrobe - and it was open - and him smiling at her like it was no big deal…this was one of the least creepy things that I heard from victims. DWBH made me aware of how widespread wierwille’s and LCM’s sexual predations were.

could be some comparing-apples-to-oranges going on here…sooooo…how about some clarifications… In terms of authoritarian and dogmatism , to what degree do we consider a major religious group like the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) in the same class or category as a small non-denominational group like The Way international (TWI)? In matters of handling doctrinal controversy how does RCC compare to TWI? In matters of abuse of power and financially exploiting followers how does RCC compare to TWI? In handling matters of sexual abuse of followers how does RCC compare to TWI? In terms of group culture, how much pressure is there for followers to conform, to toe the line in RCC compared to TWI?

123. gives one the power to make other people feel stupid

some religious groups might be more captivating than others

Hi Bolshevik, I found a few relevant DWBH quotes: DWBH comment on 6 stages of wierwille’s climb DWBH comment on vpw truth lies reasons motives DWBH comment on evidence letters vpw wrote also - good article by Dave Hunt ! I've got 3 of his books...and he's one of the first authors I got into after I left TWI that helped me see through the prosperity gospel / health & wealth bull$hit promoted by TWI and other religious con artists.

That makes me think of the illusion of freedom…another scam was wierwille and LCM saying things like if in their research they find out something is different from what they taught – they'll change what they teach... But they’ve never been known to do that. TWI promotes all-or-nothing thinking. it's either all God's Word or none of it is. "I have no friends when it comes to the Word." There are no alternatives...no other interpretations or viewpoints of the Bible are acceptable! ~ ~ ~ ~ Freedom of the mind requires not only, or not even specially, the absence of legal constraints but the presence of alternative thoughts. The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities..... Allan Bloom... The Closing of the American Mind ~ ~ ~ ~ The illusion of freedom goes along with the illusion of knowledge. “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.” – Steven Hawking This brings us to the second question: what behaviors are motivated by the feeling of understanding…researchers feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete. What did this feeling motivate researchers to do? Continue to attempt and build their understanding per se. In the cases where researchers lack the feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete, they seem to do one thing: stop. From: Understanding Understanding | Psychology Today ~ ~ ~ ~ In TWI I experienced a twofold method of retention…or rather detention…I thought of wierwille / PFAL as the be-all and end-all of human existence. After all, wierwille was chosen by God and assigned the task of teaching us everything we needed to know. Why look any further? All other sources of knowledge pale in comparison to God-teaching-wierwille-teaching-us, right? And wierwille, LCM and all the other top leadership are always trustworthy too. If they find out that something is wrong, they’ll tell us, right? What’s there to worry about?

each one win one forecast I think some of TWI’s math is screwy – read the above link to The Way Mag According to the numbers on page 26: PFAL Today around the world totals to date – new class released June 1st, 2022, and this article is on page 26 of The Way Magazine January-February 2023 edition. In that time span, participants in the class worldwide were: Classes run: 259 In Countries: 25 New students: 418 Grads: 1,706 The orange down arrow shows it took 6 months – (technically June 1 to December 31st is 6 months and 30 days ) For a total of 2,124 Their forecast appears to be set in 6 months increments on the premise of each one win one. And they double the figure each time – so 6 months out 2124 x 2 = 4,248…another 6 months out 4,248 x 2 = 8,496 …and so on. The goal of each one win one was NOT met in the first 6-month batch – because there were 1,706 grads and only 418 new students…so, 1,288 grads did NOT win someone new to take the class? Why did they include grads in the first six months total? Was it to inflate the exponential growth? Because doubling the 418 new students only gets 836 – that’s a lot less than the 2124 totals. TWI fudged on the variable to forecast exponential growth. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something but TWI’s math looks screwy to me… Exponential function - Wikipedia Exponential Functions - Definition, Formula, Properties, Rules (byjus.com)

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Our cat loves the laser pointer! But when it crapped out I used a non-contact temperature ‘Gun’ that has two dots for pointing where to read… two dots are too much for our cat…he does like a Keanu Reeves “whoa” and just stands there…so I cover one of the lasers with my finger and he’s back in the game…moral of the story - you can’t follow parallel cults.

your mind just follows the bouncing ball as we were trained in the PFAL class here we see new students following along in the class The Bible says this wierwille says this about that The Bible says this wierwille says this about that

Yeah, your posts always make a lot of sense ! In my opinion those kinds of notions will always pop up ‘naturally’ since we are by nature inquisitive beings. Reflecting on my former frame of thought – which I had built based upon wierwille’s theology – I now realize how stifling and closeminded it was. What attracted me to wierwille’s theology was that it supposedly had all the answers – he demystified God, the supernatural, interpreting the Bible, how spirit works, how prayer works, how life works, etc…Buying into wierwille’s bull$hit was enough to deter me from looking into stuff like that on my own or check out any other source or viewpoints. I touched on that on another thread Why PFAL sucks – the illusion of knowledge where I quoted from a Psychology Today article: This brings us to the second question: what behaviors are motivated by the feeling of understanding…researchers feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete. What did this feeling motivate researchers to do? Continue to attempt and build their understanding per se. In the cases where researchers lack the feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete, they seem to do one thing: stop. Maybe with my curiosity being satiated by wierwille theology - it’s like the feeling of filling up on junk food – you’re no longer hungry – so why go looking for a nutritious meal. Since I left TWI, I leave myself open to explore further – especially when we’re talking about metaphysical stuff. For a while I was drawn to Superstring theory - Wikipedia – and it’s possible the supernatural realm is wrapped up in other dimensions…I talked about that on a thread Rocky started about the book Love Wins – see Love Wins thread – T-Bone’s comment on extra dimensions But that’s only ONE possibility !!!! Quantum mechanics - Wikipedia arose gradually from theories to explain observations that could not be reconciled with classical physics…Science is always evolving – as scientist stand on the shoulders of those that came before – see String Theory and Quantum Physics - dummies …it could be the supernatural realm is something totally different than what anyone could conceive or understand with our finite minds… …Fundamentalism has a bad habit of interpreting the Bible so literally…I got into this on the Idiom of permission thread where I posted this (this is like a repost inside of a repost ): Thought I’d reference that other thread again – the post that inspired me to look more into the idiom of permission – here And I’m reposting below what I recently said on that thread ( here ) ... if you want to check the hyperlinks in the reposting below you'll have to go to my post on the Absent Christ thread...anyway here it is: It seems to me you’re trying to reconceptualize the book of Job with a confirmation bias I suspect you may have. I’m aware that you tend to interpret or recall information in a way that supports your belief in the value of wierwille / PFAL. wierwille often interpreted the Bible through several myopic lenses – a couple of which are fundamentalism and spiritualism. That much is evident by your comments. wierwille’s tendency to enforce his rigid dogma and pretentious pseudo-spirituality never failed to play havoc with the linguistic and cultural resources embedded in the Bible. NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible: Bringing to Life the Ancient World of Scripture editors John H. Walton and Craig S. Keener offers some scholarly insight of the book of Job & Kings – on pages 615, 819 and 820. Here are verses in I Kings 22 and Job 1 that speak of a spiritual assembly that the study Bible addresses on those pages: 19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’ “One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked. “‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said. “‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’ 23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.” I Kings 22:19-23 ~ ~ ~ ~ One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Job 1:6 ~ ~ ~ ~ My summary of The NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible comments on the above verses: In the ancient world, most cultures believed in many gods, imagining that the business of the gods was done in council – as typically happened in human governance. Unlike Israel’s understanding of Yahweh, the gods of other cultures had no overarching plan – it seems most decisions were made ad hoc. This corporate operation reflected an idea in the ancient world that one’s identity was found in their community. Just as the most significant identity is in one’s own clan, so the gods also acted in corporate solidarity. The idea that the gods operated in community, however posed serious problems in Israel’s theology, in which only Yahweh had the ultimate divine authority over all other “gods”. Israel’s theology did not eradicate the concept of a divine council from their thinking – instead the council was transformed. Rather than being comprised of various gods, the council featured the “sons of God” over whom Yahweh presided and whose activities he delegated. These council members were not considered gods with autonomous divine authority equal to Yahweh’s. Rather they were spirit beings given a role in Yahweh’s governance of the world. This may also lend credence to the idiom of permission. The pantheon of gods was often characterized by a hierarchy - cosmic gods, national gods, city patrons, clan deities, ancestral deities - and also differentiated by jurisdiction, manifestations and attributes. We can surmise that it was very difficult for the Israelites to adjust to a single God spanning all levels of hierarchy and all categories of jurisdiction. Another factor that debunks wierwille’s literal interpretation of the divine council in Job is that every time the word “Satan” occurs in Job it is preceded by the definite article “hassatan”. This is strong evidence that satan is NOT a personal name, because Hebrew does not put a definite article in front of personal names. There’s little reason to equate this character with the devil since it can be used to describe other individuals by function – Numbers 22:22; I Samuel 29:4; I Kings 5:4; 11:14, 23, 25; Psalm 109:6. God’s policies are the true focus of the challenge in the divine council. Job’s character is only the test case. The challenge therefore does not necessarily imply some flaw in God or Job. Central to the book of Job is the question of human suffering – especially why people who are seemingly innocent suffer, which in turn raises the question about the righteousness of a loving God. Job deals with the question of retribution, the popular theology that the righteous prosper but the wicked suffer – this attempts to vindicate God – theodicy . Wisdom accounts of innocent suffering are found across the ancient Near East – which shows a universal concern from olden times and is still a contemporary issue. End of my reposting - thanks be to God ~ ~ ~ ~ What’s all that got to do with your question “What if all three of them lived inside us - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?” That’s just my typical verbose way of admitting I don’t know that's the challenge of a lot of deep theology...trying to explain the metaphysical...doctrine of the Trinity is one attempt to explain how the Farther, the Son and the Holy Spirit relate to us...…but keep on exploring…it makes for an exciting journey!