T-Bone

Sure - I think he comes across as a genuinely nice person. I know a lot of women think he's good looking. I loved him on Talk Soup and in As Good As It Gets and - - - what? Oh - my bad - I thought you said Kinear - Greg Kinear...

"OK how about a couple of quick definitions for me like what is ROFLMAO? i think LOL is Laugh out Loud, please correct me if I am wrong" ROFLMAO = Rolling on the Floor Laughing My A$$ Off. LOL = Laughing out Loud.

:wub: :) Thanks Mom and Dad - you've made me the happiest resident in the City of God! And don't worry - I'll use a lot of these stupid forms for the dog to do his business on!

In my opinion, sogwap51, there's always a problem when "communication happens."...My wife is my best editor and critic...Before I start a thread I'll read to her my rough draft [usually 20 pages - LOL] - many times - many times - she'll say "it sounds like you're saying this or that - is that what you're saying?" - or "you sound like you're angry or dispassionate. - are you?" or "can you say it another way - you lost me."....So I go back and see if I need to tweak something...And it's VERY DIFFICULT when we're not face-to-face when trying to communicate to someone - can't hear inflections, or see body language, facial expressions.

Ha Ha LOL Bagpipes, that incident right there epitomizes the playfulness of children - I love that!!!!!!!!!!.....Isn't it something - kids often have no regard for rules, boundaries, etc....Great idea for a thread - loved what you said on the initial post - thanks!!!!!

Journal Entry August 17 1969, somewhere on Max Yasgur's Farm: Think I may have stumbled onto something...I noticed this two mornings in a row. It's dark - darkness everywhere...Then, a rooster starts crowing...Amazing!!!! The sun came up!!!!....Okay, maybe it's the acid talking - but I venture to say the rooster - through a sheer act of willpower channeled through his little cock-a-doodle-vocal-chords managed to alter the course of a planet!!!!....Oh the wonderment of it all. Is there some kind of principle - a power - a willpower - a "law of believing" if you will?....Unbeknownst to us dumb humans but utilized all the time in the animal kingdom!!!!!....Ran into those groovy Christians again after Ten Years After played. I'm going to ask them if they noticed this rooster thing.

FYI In situations where it is necessary for City of God resident to have all pets housed in separate facility they must apply for a Re-Zoning Application, use Form # 1,507,779 RZA with a 100 Good Deed Rewards filing fee...Form # 1,507,629 RVE[/b], there's only a 50 Good Deed Rewards filing fee].

Dear Typical Pet Lover, Thank you so much for your care and concern - and if it's not too much of an imposition [and if you can just push this utterly silly thread just a little further] - would you [and a friend] please fill out the Form # 1,507,770 PWP - posing as my parents - then I'll be on my merry way. Looking forward to having a bunch of critters to love and call my own, Soon-to-be-Pet-Lover

The following is from How We got the Bible, 3rd Edition, revised and expanded, by Neil R. Lightfoot, co. 1963, 1988, 2003, Baker Books, pages 27-29: "…Aramaic is a kindred language to Hebrew and after the time of the exile [c.500 B.C.] became the common tongue in Palestine. [Nehemiah 8:8 is usually read with the assumption that the people did not know pure Hebrew and therefore needed a translation into the familiar Aramaic.] Because Aramaic was spoken by the Jews several centuries before Christ, it is not surprising to find some portions of the Old Testament in Aramaic instead of Hebrew. Aramaic sections of the Old Testament include two words as a place name in Genesis 31:47; one verse I n Jeremiah 10:11; about six chapters in the Book of Daniel [2:4b-7:28]; and several chapters in Ezra [4:8-6:18; 7:12-26]. If someone looks at a copy of the Hebrew Bible, these sections in Aramaic will appear no different from the other parts of the Old Testament. This is true because the Aramaic characters are like those of the Hebrew, or to be more exact, the square-shaped Hebrew letters are actually borrowed from the Aramaic. So there is no difference in appearance between Hebrew and Aramaic, but the two are distinct languages… …Aramaic continued for centuries as the vernacular of Palestine. The New Testament preserves for us Aramaic expressions of Jesus, such as talitha cumi ["Little girl, get up."] in Mark 5:41; ephphatha ["Be opened."] in Mark 7:34; and Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtani ["My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?"] in Mark 15:34 [cf. Matt. 27:46]. Jesus habitually addressed God as Abba [Aramaic for "Father"], which did not fail to leave its mark on the vocabulary of the early church [cf. Rom. 8:15; Gal. 6:4]. Another common phrase of the early Christians was Maran atha, which means "Our Lord, come!" . These expressions clearly show that the language normally spoken by our Lord and his Jewish followers was Aramaic… …Although the spoken language of Jesus was Aramaic, the books that comprise our New Testament were written in Greek. There is little question today on this point, although a few scholars have maintained that some portions of the New Testament were issued at first in Aramaic. It was in the providence of God, since the gospel was to be proclaimed to every creature, that the New Testament writers made use of a language that was known throughout the Mediterranean world. Greek in the first century, as English is today, was the "universal" language… …The Greek of the New Testament exhibits certain linguistic peculiarities…the language of the New Testament is more correctly termed "Hellenistic" or "Koine" [common] Greek. We have been brought to this unmistakable conclusion largely because of discoveries among the ancient Greek papyri…These papyri were written by ordinary people in colloquial Greek. This Greek of the marketplace appears in the New Testament, but by and large its language is more literary than spoken Greek. In addition, the Greek New Testament has ingrained in it a peculiar Jewish or Semitic element. Most of its authors were Jews, who often thought and wrote in Semitic idiom. This is noticeable even to the English reader in such expressions as "truly [amen] I say to you," "it came to pass," "behold," "and…and," – expressions that are characteristically Semitic…"

Dear Typical Pet Lover, I beg to differ with your assessment of me - I am MORE THAN a greedy, selfish, boorish bureaucrat! As you so aptly put it I have never owned a pet - - BECAUSE MY PARENTS WOULD NOT LET ME HAVE ONE AS A CHILD - AND THEY STILL TO THIS DAY REFUSE TO SIGN Form # 1,507,770 PWP !!!!! So - I'm frustrated too. Sincerely, Pet Owner Wannabe

Sounds good - as long as it don't taste like Drambui.

Wait - wait mmmmm - it's starting to come back to me - I think this is how it went down - I was ABOUT to buy some Brown Acid off a chip monk - but as I kept watching him [the way he was playing with his n*ts] I freaked and realized he was a narc in a squirrel's costume...It gets fuzzy after that - maybe I grabbed the acid and swallowed it - since I couldn't find a toilet to flush it down...Last thing I remember VERY CLEARLY - - I was singing along with Simon & Garfunkel: "Momma don't take my chromosomes away."

Geez, Belle, it's be soooooooo long ago - - maybe I did get it at Central Park.

I agree with you 500 % GeorgeStGeorge ! When a good thread degenerates into a name-calling, while-I-got-everybody's-attention-let-me-attack-your-other-beliefs/povs - that's when I bow out. Thanks, Oakspear - great idea for a thread - afraid we'll all have to be reminded of this occasionally.

City of God: Permit to Resurrect Your Favorite Pet Permit Form # 1,507,776 RFP Be it known to all: as a resident of the City of God each citizen has the privilege to resurrect one favorite pet from their past life on earth. This is a privilege granted solely by the City of God Managers and can be withdrawn by them at any time if sufficient evidence shows that either pet or owner is in violation of any of the guidelines and rules specified below or if applicant has been negligent in providing any requested information. Permit fee is 50 Good Deed Rewards. Prohibitions and Limitations The following pets are currently on the Do Not Resurrect List: Poodles and Chihuahuas [exceptions can be made – applicants can request an audience with City Managers and will need to provide up to 700 witnesses that can attest to the good temperament of the former pet – and you will need to file a Form # 1,507,769 PAC, and there is a 700 Good Deed Rewards charge for filing the testimony of each witness]. No Pet Rocks [new Pet Rocks may be purchased at the City of God Souvenir Shop]. No Roosters [by Saint Peter’s request]. No snakes if they were used during Speaking in Tongues sessions with the Holy Ghost People. Old Testament Saints may not resurrect any pets used in sacrificial worship [What don’t you understand about the word “sacrifice”?]. Applicants are limited to resurrecting pets they actually had. If applicants were not allowed to have any pets when they were children and had no pets during adulthood then applicant must also obtain the written permission of both parents [using Form # 1,507, 770 PWP – there is a 10 Good Deed Rewards filing fee]. Upon receipt of necessary forms applicant may then choose to resurrect any animal that resided in a shelter with the exception of Poodles and Chihuahuas. I wish to resurrect the following former pet [name and species]: Check the answer applicable: This pet __was __was not house-broken. This pet did the following trick(s): Fill out if the following is applicable - When I was a child, my parents did not allow me to have a pet because of: [Please attach Form # 1,507,770 PWP] ___ Check here if you prefer to resurrect a Poodle or Chihuahua and are requesting an audience with City Managers, and will provide 700 witnesses to testify on behalf of the good nature of the animal. [Please attach Form # 1,507,769 PAC]

Don't worry Tom, it's either just Acid Reflux or flashback from some bad Acid I got at Woodstock.

Hey AmazinGrace, I didn't mean to suggest you gave no thought to such matters - I really meant to emphasize we should realistically assess a situation. In my opinion the idea of False Evidence Appearing Real is a reckless judgment call - in terms of denying reality. The idea I get from Proverbs 27:12 is that the prudent sees the danger and takes refuge - they don't ignore it or claim the danger is not real!

And Garth, I guess we're all glad there's no magical law of believing whereby extremists could literally wish out of existence anyone who disagreed with their own..............POOF

Having some forethought is a necessary tool in life. "The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it." Proverbs 27:12 NIV...And in Luke 14:28-33 Jesus uses two illustrations [building a tower and a king about to go to war] to emphasize the importance of thinking ahead, assessing the situation realistically, counting the cost - instead of plunging ahead in a foolhardy effort, recklessly even...The opposite of the mindless mentality represented in the F.E.A.R. acronym.

I've read a few books by Hugh Ross [who is a Christian], here's a web site of his http://www.reasons.org/ Somethings he gets into: on their longevity - the atmospheric conditions "back then" provided more UV protection and also their diet was different - not eating meat would cut down on heavy metals ingested, he claims Noah's flood was not global - just the area to kill off where all the people were - and some animals [the animals that could swim - didn't need the ark], and according to Ross the earth IS much older than what most theologians claim and suggests the "day" of Genesis 1 is much longer than 24 hours...I think in one of his books he made the point the Bible is not a scientific book - or rather not written from a scientific viewpoint. [And I remember reading in an old book The Harmony of Science and Scripture by Harry Rimmer - that we usually find scientific things in the Bible described in unscientific terms - as in the book of Job, near the end when God talks to him.]...Ross points out a science book is out of it's element to discuss matters of faith merely because of it's viewpoint - dealing with things that can be observed, examined, etc. as in the scientific method. The Genesis Question: Scientific Advances and the Accuracy of Genesis by Hugh Ross, co. 1998, NavPress.

Thanks, Belle, for starting this thread – especially after some of the recent ruckus on another thread. I equate "just get over it" with TWI's old pat answer in counseling situations "just renew your mind." Yeah, that may sound like biblical advice coming from the next great one-minute-manager – but after thinking about it from this thread – I have to admit [as one that often thought that way in my TWI days and thinking about how I've dealt with stuff after I left] how shallow, insensitive, over simplistic, and ineffective that is. But I guess if you're running around doing lots of things for the ministry yah ain't got time for helping people. And if it's still in the repertoire of advice for someone who's left TWI – I think it must just be a left over habit – a ghost in the machinery – so just renew your mind and get over it – [okay – I'm not trying to be mean – just a little comedic relief]. In my opinion, what goes on at Grease Spot Café is a part of a PROCESS vitally important to the Café patrons who ARE working things out at a personal level and care enough to share the fruits of their labor for the BENEFIT of OTHERS. Rascal said something to me on the Why you can't sweep it under the carpet thread that hit me like a ton of bricks [in a good way]: Rascal posted March 3 2006 11:36 PM: "…I know that I ended up feeling tremendously guilty and ashamed for a long time for promoting/supporting/defending/enabeling this outfit to operate. As far as new insight or scoop....The reason that most folks keep telling their stories here and sharing their info is so that people will ALWAYS have the opportunity to really know how evil twi/vpw was if they care to.....and when someone *gets* it...has those epiphanies....that is when we know that it was worth while to tell this story for the twentieth time.......for the one seeing it for the first time...it is a blow.......but it also seems to be when we begin to heal....the bewilderment is gone...we know what we are facing. Tbone I am sorry that the thread I recommended disturbed you.... I hope that you eventually feel that it is better to know anyway You are able to look at things honestly and that takes courage...... you are able to examine the accounts without making excuses for the conduct....or minimalizing what was endured...." In my opinion people are VERY COMPLICATED BEINGS MADE in the IMAGE of GOD! [i'm no computer geek – and I know computers ain't purfeck – not even my spell checker – LOL – but it's amazing the stuff they can do when they work right – this cold, lifeless, emotionless, piece of equipment – that pales in comparison to our brains.] If you ask me what's helped me the most since I left – I'd have to say – it's all about the PROCESS. Thinking about any epiphanies, I've had since I left – many have come as a result of INTERACTION with another person or persons. "Oil and perfume make the heart glad, so a man's counsel is sweet to his friend." Proverbs 27:9 NASB "Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27: 17 NASB There's something about getting our thoughts out in the open, thinking out loud that's intriguing – and really kicks into a hi-gear dynamic as we hold an open, honest exchange with others [that's why I included those two verses from Proverbs]. I even recall the first time I told someone unfamiliar with TWI about my former involvement. We both worked at the same place. I knew he was a Christian, I liked him as a friend and one day while we were hanging out together I just blurted out stuff. I was crying, stammering, trying to present it in an orderly fashion – feeling so abnormal, like I was confessing to some horrible crime I committed years ago. This guy was so cool. Not judgmental at all. Understanding. We would get together at Denny's before work and discuss things. I got the feeling from him I was his equal, I wasn't weird, he wasn't intent on fixing me. His recent comments to me after looking over some of the GSC threads was that he was thankful my wife and I got out of that mess – and what a mess it was. My point in saying all this – I'm all for the PROCESS. I don't think I'd have figured out, "got over it," "moved on," or dealt with much of this stuff if I hadn't done anything more than read self-help books and kept to myself. I like one definition in Webster's on "process": a natural phenomenon marked by gradual changes that lead toward a particular result <the process of growth>. After I left TWI I would read Christian Counseling books as self-help manuals – would even joke I'm my own counselor. But to be honest – I think the best times of things coming together for me are when other people are involved…In thinking about complaints from people who say they're tired of hearing some stories – I now press a pre-recorded pat answer button in my head to counter them: "What's wrong with people reviewing the ugly details of how they were hurt – but have lived to tell about it, and have moved on to continue with ALL aspects of a normal life. Isn't that what we used to do in TWI – telling our story of what God did in our lives, stories of deliverance?"… And a special thanks to all the women who have the courage and honesty to share their story – and continue to.

Wow, Bagpipes - that's very different than the way many of us dealt with things while in TWI, thinking how I used to ignore feelings, denial of reality, don't think about certain things, not being reflective, trying to be perfect, etc....Amazing post - thanks for sharing that stuff!

Here’s a little something I wrote. Happy Anniversary Grease Spot Café. Dreams of the Dashboard Jesus Ever had a dream within a dream? I was on a high horse much taller than a church – this beast of burden must have stood a hundred feet – give or take ten. I was a man on a mission – Damascus bound – just looking for steeples got to mow ‘em down! I’m just your average zealous Hebrew – an unborn apostle asleep at the reigns. Check out my stallion – dirt roads it devours – watch me burn some rocks as I take this turn. Oh bless the holy feet of Father Gamaliel – who put that iceberg in the middle of my way?!?! That’s just not any ol’ iceberg like the ones on National Geographic – it looked like that little Jesus I’ve seen on dashboards – but God…this one’s a hundred miles high! Ain’t no stopping this brazen bronco – maybe I don’t want to – maybe it’s best we just end things this way. Last thing I remember – right before impact – ice is good for numbing pain. …Now out of a coma – anyone get the license plate of that iceberg? Who moved my bed onto the deck of the Titanic – everyone’s in a panic! Don’t think I fully recovered from the first dream yet. What’s going on here – can someone tell me – where exactly are we anyway? Someone pointed past the stern of the ship – said we hit a peculiar iceberg – swore it looked like a massive Che Guevara…Damage report – what is our status? I bet we’ll be okay. Where is the duct tape? Where is the expert? That MacGyver dude did it all the time. …Next in my dream [or is this a nightmare?] Scotty beams me up to the bridge. There’s a minor altercation between the bus driver and the captain – like pontificating pugilists – this little fracas is really quite a show! On the console - - where is the plastic Jesus – shouldn’t there be one – who’s watching over this mess anyway?!?!...I found it in the third drawer down – underneath some trophy panties…I know it’s wrong – thou shalt not steal – I know it’s wrong but I took it anyway! Back to the console – there’s a cup of coffee – I like coffee so I take a swig. Yeecch! That’s not coffee – tastes like Drambui – mixed with some Kool-Aid – mixed with some Spanish Fly and a lemon twist…No wonder we collided – there’s the Navigator watching a porn flick – shouldn’t he be checking on the Radar Screen? Outside the window – looks like a snowstorm – can’t see where we’re going. Outside the window – there’s Adolph Hitler or is it Colonel Klink? He’s winking at me – or is he laughing at me - as he runs his rinky-dink snow-making machine. In a twinkling eye, a Rapture-like second - I’m suddenly overboard. Now this is crazy – so weird-snake-crazy – I can hear the ship’s band playing “Hotel California.” Thank God, I’m not a bad swimmer – even with a plastic Jesus in one hand. Am I speaking in dreams? Where’s an interpreter? Or am I supposed to do that too? Ever lived a life within a life?...I don’t ever ride on horses – don’t take any cruises – don’t really go anywhere that a wheel can’t roll…And when I drive I like to drive with my Jesus up on the dashboard of my car.

Freud posted April 17 2006 3:48 AM "As you point out...interest and work are not mutually exclusive. I am vague...but not to be deceptive...but rather protective. As far as knowing about TWI...well I must admit that my knowledge about it was pretty much ziltch...yes I had a distant recollection of the name...but nothing of substance. My main focus has been on quasi-political cults with a passing interest in purely religious ones. I did a lot of research on the American Militia movement back in the early 90's...prior to the Waco debacle and the Oak City bombing. I have spoken extensively on the Michigan Milita and other para-military groups. I have also spoken to several churches but my lectures concern various aspects of belief...not religious ideology. In addition I've been on Christian Radio stations discussing various aspects of belief and faith. Anyhow....I'll be away from the 'puter for a few days...but I'll check back mid week. Whoever LCM really is as a person...the folks here who have seen him in action over several years probably have a clearer picture of the man than the selective and filtered one that I have experienced. I just thought that I would add my experiences into the arena of discussion. Take them and do what them whatever you will!" I'm sorry -I hate to be so nit picky - but if Freud has lectured at several churches and has been on Christian Radio stations - then why is he so secretive here? For protection? Did he appear at the churches with a brown paper bag over his head? Did he appear on the radio stations under an alias like Freud?...I'm not writing off Freud - I just find odd - that someone claims to have even a small interest in religious cults would say TWI never registered a serious blip on his radar.

Freud posted April 16 2006 8:26 PM: "Folks, 24 hours ago I didn't know this site existed nor was I aware that so many people had been deeply affected by a person who I met a few years ago. Here is my story... A few years back....In a casual social situation I met a man named Craig Martindale. It was not a religious or work situation, just a casual social event attended by lots of other people. He asked me what I did for a living, when I told him, it became obvious that I had struck a nerve. It is important that confidentiality be maintained, so I will be vague, but some of my work centers around the various aspects of religious belief and the dynamics of cults and religious leaders. Craig was very interested in the topic and ended up in a long extended conversation on the issue. He mentioned that he had been active in a ministry and that he was a former pastor. He was vague about his past and it was clear to me that something significant had occured in his life. Over the next few years I had the opportunity to have several discussions with him regarding faith, reason, family, love and work. We avoided any serious discussion of his past ministry because it seemed to ellicit incredible sadness." After reading Al Poole's post I went back to the Freud's initial post on the other thread - and bold-ed and red colored two items of note - so it makes me wonder If Freud's work centered around various aspects of religious beliefs, the dynamics of cults and religious leaders - then how come he never ran across Grease Spot Café up until April 16 2006?