T-Bone

I think it's pointless to try to save an organization founded by an egotistical lecherous drunk. But if they want to put a new whine in an old Drambui bottle - that's their privilege.

I've been reviewing a few threads lately and usually the same thought crosses my mind at some point while reading – how much my conscience was anesthetized while in TWI. Sometimes that thought leads me into analyzing the delivery system and the drug that quiets this inner voice. The delivery system is their modeling of "Christian living" by TWI leadership and the sedative to the still small voice is of course TWI's interpretation of the Bible. I vaguely remember [it's been so long ago] taking the Christian Family and Sex class in my early twenties. That's where I can pinpoint for me VPW showcasing his insidious version of Christian freedom. Watching VPW standing in front of photographs of couples having intercourse saying he's so renewed his mind that he just sees the beauty of that act – or something to that effect. And really – whatever he covered [or uncovered] in that class – be it slang terms, how to do "it", etc. – it was all in such a matter-of-fact casual manner – and my take on it then was, "Wow, he's so cool…A person can renew their mind and not sin in any situation." I can just picture a dad at home yelling "has anyone seen my latest issue of Playboy?" His son's voice answering back through the bathroom door "I'll have it back to you in a few minutes, Dad – I'm almost done renewing my mind." Fast forward to being in the Family Corps in my early thirties. Sitting in a pajama party – VPW the master of ceremonies showing off his famous doggie porn video, and calling a sixteen year old girl up front to show her a porn pen. The most disturbing aspect of this memory to me now is that no alarms were going off in my head at the time of this incident. The following is from The Vanishing Conscience by John MacArthur, page 36: "In 1984 an Avianca Airlines jet crashed in Spain. Investigators studying the accident made an eerie discovery. The black box cockpit recorders revealed that several minutes before impact a shrill, computer-synthesized voice from the plane's automatic warning system told the crew repeatedly in English, "Pull up! Pull up!" The pilot, evidently thinking the system was malfunctioning snapped, "Shut up, Gringo!" and switched off the system. Minutes later the plane plowed into the side of a mountain. Everyone on board died. When I saw the tragic story on the news shortly after it happened, it struck me as a perfect parable of the way modern people treat the warning messages of their consciences."

You've made an interesting point there, Rascal. There was definitely a moral aspect to the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. Thinking back on when I first took PFAL - here's another biblically illiterate sucker [me] thinking he's getting the inside scoop on the Bible. And really it's more like that ol' serpent's lie re-packaged - like they do in marketing, labeling it "new and improved" on the same old stuff...TWI sure has a knack for doing scriptural origami - folding and twisting Bible verses into a belief system that says it's okay to sin.

and he would follow that claim by saying, "that's right I've seen her naked."

Good to hear from you - and we'll continue to keep you in our thoughts and prayers, Tonto & T-Bone

I'm praying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please keep us posted.

Mosquito #1: Oooooohhhhh lawdy!!!! I've died and gone to heaven. Mosquito #2: Oh that sucks, dude!

...And we're synonomous... <_< :( :) :blink:

That’s funny Shellon and Dmiller! You’ve inspired me to write: If Wal-Mart was in fact heaven Then that would make Kmart hell. I would be honored at the pearly gates to wish all shoppers well. But if perchance there cometh one who’s words with me gets smart, my grin will morph to a scowl As I say, “Well, you can just go to Kmart!”

Socks - that's a hot tune you've got there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it should be track # 2 on your CD - the follow up song to your "Waiting" tune - the cat is on the couch waiting for you to take it to the Vet in the Subaru.... And that reminds me speaking of Beck - I ordered his Beckology awhile back from Amazon - I'm still waiting for it to come - supposed to ship this month. I should have paid the extra to have LoJack on my CDs.

Wishing you the best on your birthday - have a good one, Raf !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I called him back and said we each earn $25/hour he said "well - - just send one of you over."

Tonto, we make a great team - sure glad I'm with you on this life's journey. Love yah big time!

Would you please be more specific on what those folks got. Would you please list there names here on your post replying to me - and list what they said - this way I know you're not making this stuff up...You do actually have the emails don't you?...If you have them - you can give a summation of each person's email - showing their support for your position - let's see what they said. I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with you referencing them unless you made up stuff.

10 of the guests were me - - I suffer from a multiple personality disorder...Don't believe me? Just ask my Legion Coordinator...Comes in handy when I'm the only one at twig and want to have manifestations.

OldiesMan "The corps believed that God would protect from harm, so no. I don't think twi lied to folks when they claimed that God would protect them, because the bible itself claims that. We believed the bible." T-Bone OldiesMan, please show me that in the Bible. Where in the Bible does it promise God will protect you – even when you make stupid decisions – or follow the stupid instructions of your spiritual leader? Proverbs 27:12 "The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it." [NIV]…I don't see anything about using the magic power of believing in that verse. The smart person in that verse is the one who looks ahead, identifies risks/dangers and takes appropriate action to avoid them… …Who was the dumb*$$ that came up with the idea to test God - - to tempt God - - to make God protect you by hitching to a leadership training program? What was the point of having people hitch? "Oh – to put people in a situation where they have to believe God," is the typical TWI reasoning, "You know - to walk on water you've got to get out of the boat." Hmmmmmmmm…Hitchhiking is like walking on water – eh? I think anybody can hitch – just takes a little nerve. I know of only two people who walked on water – Jesus and Peter who asked permission of Jesus…But I guess this adventure of hitchhiking is an easy way for TWI to claim the Way Corps are actually manipulating reality by the non-existent power of believing. Wow, thank you TWI for training me to be a great spiritual leader by bumming rides across the country and mooching off people – oh wait – that is good training for a TWI leadership position. OldiesMan "Now when bad happens, who do you blame, if anyone/anything? I blame the actual perpetrator, if any. On a spiritual level, I blame the devil." T-Bone I'm keeping this in context with my contention that TWI promoted followers to tempt God – specifically in directing them to hitchhike to Tinney. If some great evil befell a person en route – I too would blame the actual perpetrator – but now – now – after leaving TWI 20 years ago – no longer thinking I could alter reality to my liking [and various other La-La-Land lines of reasoning] – I think TWI shares some of the culpability for the double whammy of encouraging people to do something potentially dangerous and yet giving them a false sense of security [rendering them ill-equipped and unprepared].

I guess you don't see any similarity between the devil telling Jesus it's okay to jump off the Temple because an angel will catch him and TWI telling people God's going to protect you as you hitch to Tinney, New Mexico...Ever heard any of the horror stories of people [especially women] that went L.E.A.D.? Who's idea was that - to have people hitch to Tinney? Is that not putting people in harm's way?...Would you please show me in the Bible where we are directed to intentionally put ourselves in risky or even dangerous situations - on a routine basis at that!!!!!!!!!! Why - oh why is there so much wisdom in the book of Proverbs on making smart decisions, looking ahead and avoiding dangerous situations, pondering the path of your feet?.....In my opinion it is rather presumptuous of TWI to expect God to cover for every bonehead move followers make - I also get the idea that TWI really thought people were - gasp - expendable!

WordWolf, the first time I read your post I thought of that same phrase “connecting-the-dots” used by the media and security agencies in reference to discovering the trail of covert plans of the terrorists after 9/11. I don’t think VPW had the intellectual capacity to mastermind anything – I think his modus operandi was to take the path of least resistance in pursuit of sex, power and glory…But I don’t mean to put words in your wolf – did you mean it more like showing a connection with the counter-culture trends and their influence on VPW? That would be interesting – sort of a timeline thing like you did with The Way: Living in Wonderland.

Dooj, are you saying it could beat the livin' cheese out of yah?

Thanks for sharing your story, Oakspear. I admire your bravery in checking out TWI’s doctrines and in speaking up about it – I was such a wimp while I was in it – couldn’t imagine myself doing something like that! Besides I was so bedazzled by VPW’s presentation [as you put it] I didn’t even notice any inconsistencies [TWI fed and brain dead!] – which reminds me of another thing I liked throughout your story – revealing your process of analytical thinking...Also enjoyed listening to what you had to say on a couple of those Grease Spot Radio episodes.

Thanks for sharing your story, Bagpipes. Your strength is - - amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!! I always enjoy reading your posts - which are typically inspirational and thought-provoking. And you better not back off that Rambling stuff - that's when it really gets good !!!!!!!!!

Kudos to you, Eagle – that is a very courageous and loving thing to do…When you talked about forgiving yourself – I thought of some of the dumb things I’d done while in TWI [all in the name of Christianity]. I thought of the scars we have from our self-inflicted wounds [sins] – some I don’t think will ever go away. Perhaps they are to remind us of our humanity, our fallen nature – a healthy reminder lest we get prideful. And maybe these scars help strengthen our conviction that we will NEVER make a mistake like that again! I also think they give us a real connection with others that have done something similar and are now remorseful – and need a friend to talk things out with and figure out how to make amends.

Tom – that’s a great thing to bring up. I know what you mean about certain tunes evoking some kind of feeling. I like a lot of U2’s stuff. I usually describe that “feeling” as “it takes me somewhere.” U2’s “Where the Streets have no name” certainly does that for me too. Sort of like enjoying a good movie – where you forget about everything else and get totally involved in the flick – even worrying about how things will work out – whoa that’s probably all the soda and candy drugs kickin’ in!...But seriously – sometimes caught up in the moment I recall excerpts of tunes when I’m really happy or excited. Like I’m making the sound track for an imaginary movie – hee hee. Socks – I like all that technical stuff you shared – especially the simplicity and understatement of a group like the Rembrandts. I enjoy a tune that is uncluttered or not overproduced. I like it when the instrumentation is exactly what’s needed and fits with the rest of the tune – no one is showing off – thinking more about their own thing than the whole picture…I like what you said about an artist’s simple rendition can leave something for the collective ear of the listener. Actually – I love that! It’s an invitation to the listening – a little mystery – like a dimly lit room with a door open to another dark room. Your imagination and feelings can explore!

...That's a show of hands for Tonto and me.

I think you have a good point, Skyrider. Several good points actually. When you mentioned reading someone's biography I thought of the From Birth to the Way Corps autobiography we were required to write. I have a distinct memory of interpreting all my life's experiences thus far through the stilted black-and-white filter of TWI's viewpoint as I crafted a distorted [according to my own current viewpoint] narration of my life…In my opinion, reality is too complicated for TWI's simplistic way of thinking. As you put it – many TWI followers couldn't manage with any intellectual poise matters of doctrine, practice, emotions, relationships, etc. …Each person's life is a very complicated thing. I think as we mature and give thought to our experiences that we continue to draw more insight about ourselves. And I mean give thought – not mindlessly playing them back over and over again like a broken record. How did those experiences – "good", "bad", or undefined [bet you weren't ready for that!] – shape who I am today? What about all the different aspects of my life at that time? In my opinion it's sort of like understanding or appreciating a favorite movie at several different levels. One of my favorite movies is Being John Malkovich – a comic fantasy about a street puppeteer who discovers a portal into the brain of the actor John Malkovich. On the surface the movie is utterly ridiculous – but it's my kind of humor. There are other levels too – I like how the movie gets into people's struggle for identity, self-esteem and power, how people can be manipulative, how people deal with manipulators, how people deal with emotions and with their past, and so on. We each have the right to express – to interpret our experiences the way we want – and not feel pressured to kowtow to someone else's viewpoint – especially black-and-white thinking – which in my opinion doesn't take in the whole picture. For me personally – I usually try to get a clearer picture – a more accurate picture – of what was happening to me, what were the subtle dynamics of things going on in my life at the time. I find myself re-interpreting many of my TWI experiences – in terms of understanding why I reacted a certain way in a particular incident, my motivation in a specific situation, etc. I know in terms of time – it's twelve years of my life I will never get back – but I am intent on garnering as much useful info as I can out of it – with a view toward making my life better now because of it and/or in spite of it! Uh oh, I see on the Rambling Meter I have gone way over the acceptable operating level – so I'm shutin' er down! As you said "Lots to unravel.........still."