T-Bone

Hi Charity, I think you’ve got the right idea on II Peter 1:19 – emphasizing Scripture over Peter remembering an experience. You’re in good company cuz I looked the passage up in my MacArthur study Bible – which uses the NASB. I thought his comments may be helpful – which I’ve quoted below this portion of II Peter 1 from NASB: 16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such a [j]declaration as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory: “This is [k]My beloved Son with whom I am well pleased”— 18 and we ourselves heard this [l]declaration made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. 19 And so we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture [m]becomes a matter of [n]someone’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. II Peter 1 NASB - Growth in Christian Virtue - Simon - Bible Gateway ~ ~ ~ ~ from my MacArthur study Bible: 1:19 the prophetic word. The “prophetic word” refers not just to the OT major and minor prophets, but to the entire OT. Of course, all of the OT was written by “prophets” in the truest sense, since they spoke and wrote God’s Word, which was the task of a prophet, and they looked forward, in some sense, to the coming Messiah (cf. Lk 24:27). made more sure. This translation could indicate that the eyewitness account of Christ’s majesty at the Transfiguration confirmed the Scriptures. However, the Gr. word order is crucial in that it does not say that. It says, “And we have more sure the prophetic word.” That original arrangement of the sentence supports the interpretation that Peter is ranking Scripture over experience. The prophetic word (Scripture) is more complete, more permanent, and more authoritative than the experience of anyone. More specifically, the Word of God is a more reliable verification of the teachings about the person, atonement, and second coming of Christ than even the genuine firsthand experiences of the apostles themselves. From page 1924, 2 Peter 1 of MacArthur Study Bibles - Christianbook.com

Yeah - speaking of origin stories - I was reading John 15 this morning - and I'll make a few points about imposters after the passage: 15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other. John 15 ~ ~ ~ ~ 1.If Jesus Christ is absent – then none of this is applicable. How can a branch be connected to a vine if the vine is absent? Ah, but one may try arguing the branch is connected to the vine spiritually. Sure! But a spiritual union necessitates the joining of others who are present…Jesus Christ is not absent. 2. I submit that a pseudo-Christian cult like The Way International can have all the trappings of Christianity – but if they are not connected to Christ – they are lifeless and bear no fruit. 3. We are to remain in Christ’s love. How? By keeping His commands. And one of His commands is “Love each other as I have loved you”. Most followers of The Way International practice degrees of estrangement whether they realize it or not. The most obvious being the way they deride any Christian groups. Then to a lesser degree, anyone who is a follower of The Way international but doesn’t toe the line – will experience disaffection from the group – they might sense others - especially leadership are dissatisfied with them – even though they don’t say it outright. wierwille used to say, “When it comes to The Word, I have no friends”. What is a friend? A person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection. I think wierwille was a malignant narcissist – the bond of mutual affection was the over-the-top admiration wierwille had of himself and the respect he demanded from others. See Dangerous Cult Leaders | Psychology Today 4.The Way Tree is a counterfeit of Christ as the vine and believers as the branches. In a pseudo-Christian cult, the cult-leader doubles as the gardener and the vine from the John 15 metaphor. The cult-leader prunes the branches – he/she will mark and avoid those who do not produce fruit which is recruiting new followers. 5. “You did not choose me, but I chose you”…This is a twisted version of how I got tricked into following a cult-leader. I bought into wierwille’s idea of The Word takes the place of the absent Christ …I did NOT choose a pathological liar, unabashed plagiarist, megalomaniac, malignant narcissist, drunkard, abusive, sexual predator – but that creep deliberately chose unsuspecting seekers of Jesus Christ like me as a target of his religious scam

I was reading John 15 this morning, and this caught my attention: 15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other. John 15 ~ ~ ~ ~ Making a few points from the above chapter of John: 1.If Jesus Christ is absent – then none of this is applicable. How can a branch be connected to a vine if the vine is absent? Ah, but one may try arguing the branch is connected to the vine spiritually. Sure! But a spiritual union necessitates the joining of others who are present…Jesus Christ is not absent. 2. I submit that a pseudo-Christian cult like The Way International can have all the trappings of Christianity – but if they are not connected to Christ – they are lifeless and bear no fruit. 3. We are to remain in Christ’s love. How? By keeping His commands. And one of His commands is “Love each other as I have loved you”. Most followers of The Way International practice degrees of estrangement whether they realize it or not. The most obvious being the way they deride any Christian groups. Then to a lesser degree, anyone who is a follower of The Way international but doesn’t toe the line – will experience disaffection from the group – they might sense others - especially leadership are dissatisfied with them – even though they don’t say it outright. wierwille used to say, “When it comes to The Word, I have no friends”. What is a friend? A person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection. I think wierwille was a malignant narcissist – the bond of mutual affection was the over-the-top admiration wierwille had of himself and the respect he demanded from others. See Dangerous Cult Leaders | Psychology Today 4.The Way Tree is a counterfeit of Christ as the vine and believers as the branches. In a pseudo-Christian cult, the cult-leader doubles as the gardener and the vine from the John 15 metaphor. The cult-leader prunes the branches – he/she will mark and avoid those who do not produce fruit which is recruiting new followers. 5. “You did not choose me, but I chose you”…This is a twisted version of how I got tricked into following a cult-leader. I bought into wierwille’s idea of The Word takes the place of the absent Christ …I did NOT choose a pathological liar, unabashed plagiarist, megalomaniac, malignant narcissist, drunkard, abusive, sexual predator – but that creep deliberately chose unsuspecting seekers of Jesus Christ like me as a target of his religious scam.

Great post, Bolshevik! That's one heck of an observation !!!!! ...and kinda obvious now that you mentioned it.

Well, Christianity does revolve around Jesus Christ – and their “about” page is upfront about that: About GotQuestions.org – and I happen to believe in the divinity of Christ, so I don’t take issue with that. I really didn’t intend to get into religion bashing on this thread – but that’s just me – I’m easy to get along with – which reflects my open-mindedness – I’m not a big fan of Religious exclusivism - Wikipedia and there are some interfaith communities that celebrate and honor the many paths to God like The Spiritual Life – “Windows To Spirituality” The Spiritual Life (slife.org) The main reason I started this thread in About the Way was to point out – from a Christian perspective – that The Way International are a bunch of royal hypocrites !!!!! As I said in the starter post – I wanted this thread to be an exercise in the Socratic method that’s used on a lot of Grease Spot threads - it's a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between Grease Spotters, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions. It helps to identify and eliminate the dubious theories, logical fallacies, contradictions, eclectic unbiblical sources, and flat-out Scripture twisting in the Power For Abundant Living class – which is the mainstay of The Way International. But frankly – nothing new here or elsewhere on Grease Spot – when it comes to exposing their dark underbelly. Yeah, I know I’m boring and repetitive cuz I also started a thread Why PFAL sucks since it's an inferior substitute for Christianity and is detrimental to one’s well-being. I’m not going to play topic-cop – I figure we’re all responsible adults here. You can post whatever you want – although in my opinion you’ll probably have a better chance of everyone staying on topic if you start a thread about why Christianity sucks or why religion sucks if you choose a more appropriate forum like Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith. That’s all for now, peace

I get suspicious when so-and-so says he’ll bet his life on something, and he wants me to make the same wager. Knowing the character traits of so-and-so, I think he is just trying to blur distinctions and redefine words to his liking. It has nothing to do with substance – and everything to do with derailing a thread... ...and as they say on Shark Tank - "for that reason I'm out".

Stayed Too Long, you’re not wrong in your opinion – and this may be one of those instances of folks looking at the same thing from a different viewpoint. I’m quoting an excerpt from the same article and here’s what stood out to me: Various chilling accounts written by former members of The Way describe brainwashing, manipulation and control of followers, and sexual perversion and adultery that become increasingly more drastic toward the upper echelons of the organization. Like many cults, The Way marks those who appear not to agree with the cult or who fail to obey unquestioningly and purges them. Those who are purged are avoided and escorted off The Way campuses and utterly ignored, even by longtime friends. Also as in many cults, the followers of The Way are lured into the group by the friendliness and acceptance they experience upon meeting The Way members. This is simply a marketing technique used by The Way International to gather followers, not genuine friendship. Although many of the followers of The Way are well-meaning people, they are deceived and they are deceiving others. Its members may describe their meetings, at first, as “home-churches” or “discussion groups.” It is always best to check to see what, if any, church or organization a home church is affiliated with and examine their statement of faith or mission statement before becoming involved. From: What is The Way International? | GotQuestions.org ~ ~ ~ ~ What jumps out to me in that article is that when it comes to determining whether a cult is harmful and controlling – It’s important to look at their methods and practices rather than their statements of belief… Looking at TWI’s website, their statement of beliefs and articles appear benign and Christian-like…But as a lot of us on Grease Spot Café know, that’s just a cover. They are a pseudo-Christian harmful and controlling cult – a challenging counterfeit. ~ ~ ~ ~ I’ve tried to get in the habit of referring to The Way International as a harmful and controlling cult. As Waysider expressed - there’s a wide variety of cults and not all are necessarily religious or manipulative and detrimental to the follower. For example, The Rocky Horror Picture Show ’s famous audience participation was inspired, in part, by boredom. The Rocky Horror Picture Show was a flop when it was originally released in 1975, but as midnight showings continued, it developed a rabid cult following with a penchant for shouting at the screen as the film played. You know what would be funny - imagine some new students who still have their wits about them - midway through taking PFAL Today - start shouting in protest at the monitor and throwing stretched coffee at the class coordinator.

The Ever UnPFLAPable Completely and Totally Anti-NumbSkullable Companion to Grease Spot Café Threads Under the adjunct entry for The Absent Christ? thread: Absenteeism = the practice of regularly staying away from the point without good reason; absenteeism has been viewed as an indicator of poor individual performance, as well as a breach of an implicit contract among all Grease Spotters involved in the discussion. Absentia = the term in absentia is an adverb or adjective that means in absence - used in legal systems when referring to someone being absent from defending their own case. May be used as in the form of disfigured speech – “I’m there in spirit but not in truth” – meaning one is online trolling the discussion but frequently attempts to undermine the conversation. Absolutely = A cognitive distortion; Often pronounced in a thick punch-drunk-Rocky-Balboa-speech pattern to convey the sentiment “When it comes to PFAL, I have no friends”; Absolute thinking is an unusual difficulty or inability to acknowledge and/or cope with life challenges and/or criticism of wierwille or PFAL; It can be a symptom of serious mental or physical illness such as depression anxiety, or even diseases such as Parkinson's, or simply that the absolute thinker has a hidden agenda. Absolved = Free from blame, guilt, or responsibility – something every cult-follower desire for themselves as well as the cult-leader; the jury is still out on exactly why some fans of wierwille want this – the attraction may be that one simply finds a religion that allows you to do whatever the hell you want irresistible. Absinthe = Absinthe is a Kool-Aid infused ‘spirit’ derived from several plagiarized works, eclectic ideologies, delusions of grandeur and includes select pages from How to Win Friends and Influence People; its greenish-black color resembles the PFAL signup card and is flavored with wormwood a star that fell from the sky and polluted the fountain of living waters. It is unknown how many cult-followers will suffer as a result.

Transcendence and immanence are divine attributes 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28 25 David said about him: “‘I saw the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest in hope, 27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay. 28 You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.’ 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. Acts 2 54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7 12 “On one of these journeys I was going to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests. 13 About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. 14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,[a] ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ Acts 26 16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? I Corinthians 3 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. Ephesians 2 ~~~~~~~~~ -~~~~~~~ It’s puzzling why some may wrestle with the idea of interagency of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It may be they still wrestle with comprehending the divine attributes of Jesus Christ - that He is both transcendent AND immanent.

That makes me circle back to superstring theory – theoretical physicists talk about strings or loops, and each vibrates at a unique frequency – and for some reason I always associate that with a gimmick in the 1999 animated sci-fi film The Iron Giant ...A young boy befriends a giant robot from outer space that a paranoid government agent wants to destroy…however the giant robot is friendly and saves a small town by deflecting a nuclear missile and is destroyed in the process. Parts of the robot are scattered across thousands of miles. At the end of the movie, each part appears to be emitting a frequency communicating with the head – and the parts become mobilized to reassemble – heading back to where the head is located…it’s one of my daughter’s favorite movies – mine too! In 2010, my brother-in-law passed away, his wife asked me to share at the funeral. I read from I Corinthians 15 about the resurrection: 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man. 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” I Corinthians 15 What is remarkable to think about is that the “spiritual body”…the “glorious” body – does not appear to be something God whips up out of thin air. Paul said “When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed…”(verse 37). So that gives me the idea that perhaps our new bodies are in part somewhat reconstituted from the old body – but with substantial improvements, upgrades, and advanced capabilities…Think about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Did the disciples find a fresh corpse in the grave? Nope! The body was missing! And when Jesus appeared to the disciples in His resurrected form – He didn’t say “Hey guys, this feels really weird – I don’t feel like myself.” Jesus said, “It is I myself!”: 36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Luke 24 ~ ~ ~ ~ Soooooooo…thinking about superstring theory…vibrating strings…homing device built into the parts of a robot for a worst-case scenario reassembly…old bodies reconstructed into new… New International Version Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life…Philippians 4:3 What if some angels are keeping records of the unique frequency of the tiny bits of pure energy that are the smallest components of matter and force in each person. What if someone has been dead for thousands of years? What about bodies totally decomposed…became part of the soil or ocean…well…The First Law of Thermodynamics is one of the absolute physical laws of the universe – it states that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed see First Law of Thermodynamics (allaboutscience.org) …so is it possible that the sovereign creator of the cosmos could summon all the components of a specific frequency - wherever they are - and restore them into in a new…improved…enhanced form? Sounds like a herculean task, doesn’t it? Ever thought about the creation story in the Bible? ~ ~ ~ ~ New International Version In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. There’s a lot that happened in that simple verse! Remember vibrations? Frequencies? The Big Bang theory predicts that the early universe was a very hot place and that as it expands, the gas within it cools. Thus the universe should be filled with radiation that is literally the remnant heat left over from the Big Bang, called the “cosmic microwave background", or CMB… …According to the Big Bang theory, the frequency spectrum of the CMB should have this blackbody form. This was indeed measured with tremendous accuracy by the FIRAS experiment on NASA's COBE satellite… …There is no alternative theory yet proposed that predicts this energy spectrum. The accurate measurement of its shape was another important test of the Big Bang theory…one of the most striking features about the cosmic microwave background is its uniformity… …Only with very sensitive instruments, such as COBE and WMAP, can cosmologists detect fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background temperature. By studying these fluctuations, cosmologists can learn about the origin of galaxies and large scale structures of galaxies and they can measure the basic parameters of the Big Bang theory. From: WMAP Big Bang CMB Test (nasa.gov) If you think keeping track of certain unique identifying frequencies for a bunch of humans is tough – think about being the project manager for the Big Bang – there’s a LOT OF OPERATIONS TO SUPERVISE FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS: ~ ~ ~ ~ As a side note on this creation stuff, I think Genesis 1 should be read as an ode to the Creator and not as a scientific textbook. I don’t think it gives enough detail to show exactly how God did it. And seeing how the cosmology of the ancient Hebrews and other cultures were similar – I think the chief difference with the Hebrew’s over other cosmologies was that the Creator was sovereign over all – indicated by His supreme authority to name everything and assign its function / purpose. In other cultures, the sun, the earth, the moon, the stars, etc. were either considered gods and/or were managed by various gods…Other cultures might brag about their ‘franchise’ of certain gods. But the Hebrews could counter that those franchises were still under the jurisdiction of the Creator – the head God over all. Some ideas from NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible, Hardcover: Craig Keener, John Walton: 9780310431589 - Christianbook.com See also Cosmology and Theology (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) ~ ~ ~ ~ And tying this into other thoughts on this thread – the Big Bang Theory is probably scientists’ best guess on how the known dimensions came about. It’s possible there are other dimensions…other universes that exist…it would be fascinating if there will be a streaming service in heaven so that we can binge-watch the creation of our world... and other worlds…imagine watching the series The 456th Universe Next Door: Season 15 trillionth; episode 4 – and it starts out “Previously on The 456th Universe Next Door…”

One of my favorite TV shows growing up was The Outer Limits – and one of the most memorable episodes was The Outer Limits: Behold Eck! A two-dimensional alien, stranded in our three-dimensional world, inadvertently causes havoc in Los Angeles. Only a mild-mannered optician and his secretary have the power to help – it was pretty cool – if I remember correctly the optician fabricated a special lens for Eck to see the doorway to get back to his world. I’m not familiar with Flatland…Theologian Alister McGrath – in his Understanding the Trinity book (I think) used a similar thought experiment to ponder how we humans living if living only in 2 dimensions could relate to a being that lives in more dimensions. I drew upon that idea in a recent post - here - where I said: We are finite beings stuck in a specific spacetime continuum. But not so with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. How does anything work in the spiritual realm? I don't know! And what is the spiritual realm? I don't know! Imagine if you were a 2-dimensional sentient being – like a stick figure that the Divine Artist doodled on paper...what does divine mean anyway? I don't know - maybe the one who created you is otherworldly. Now imagine if you got in a conversation with the Divine Artist. Do you think you could wrap your mind around the world of the Divine Artist when more than 2 dimensions are involved? "What do you mean there's stuff in front of and behind this piece of paper I'm on? What does that mean? I don't see anything! Is there more to life than this piece of paper?" ~ ~ ~ ~ I also touched on alternate dimensions on a couple of other threads - here and here . ~ ~ ~ ~ Our physical space is observed to have three large spatial dimensions and, along with time, is a boundless 4-dimensional continuum known as space-time continuum . Theoretical physicists have come up with a number of concepts that incorporate extra physical measurements describing more dimensions – from 10 to 26 dimensions! This is fascinating to think about – how do we measure stuff? Science uses various methods to quantify matter, energy, and the passage of time (time being the 4th dimension) . In concepts and mathematics, scientists theorize there are other dimensions – but currently there is no way to evaluate by observation or experimentation if they truly exist. What criteria do we use for metaphysics ? ~ ~ ~ ~ The Logos – and some tidbits I picked up from studies of John 1 The Greeks had the concept of the Logos – which means two things – “word” and “reason”. “The Jew was entirely familiar with the all-powerful word of God. “God said, let there be light; and there was light” ( Genesis 1:3 ). The Greek was entirely familiar with the thought of reason. He looked at this world; he saw a magnificent and dependable order. Night and day came with unfailing regularity; the year kept its seasons in unvarying order; the stars and planets moved in their unaltering path; nature had unvarying laws. What produced this order? The Greek answered unhesitatingly, the Logos, the mind of God, is responsible for the majestic order of the world…What enables man to think, to reason and to know? Again he answered unhesitatingly, the Logos, the mind of God, dwelling within a man makes him a thinking rational being. Another big idea that Greeks had was the concept of two worlds. One of the worlds was the one in which we live – a world of mere shadows and copies and reflections of another realm. To the Greeks this other unseen realm was considered the real world. Plato (Athenian philosopher, approx. 423 to 348 BC) is most famous for The Theory of Forms which is a philosophical worldview that the physical world is not as real or true as timeless, absolute, unchangeable ideas – which are the non-physical essences of all things, of which objects and matter in the physical world are merely imitations. The great challenge to philosophy was how to connect to this unseen reality…how to get out of the shadows and into the eternal truths. source John 1 - Barclay's Daily Study Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org ~ ~ ~ ~ A recent development of humankind is virtual reality - the computer-generated simulation of a three-dimensional image or environment that can be interacted with in a seemingly real or physical way by a person using special electronic equipment, such as a helmet with a screen inside or gloves fitted with sensors…are we God’s virtual reality? Just kidding – but it makes me think of how a certain ‘reality’ is created. In the early years of my work career, I was involved in the building and remodeling industries. Building materials and manufacturing processes have come a long way since then. It's not just lumber, concrete, plastic, steel, alloys, composite materials – there’s also 3-D printing for an entire house! Saw it on TV - it must be real It's possible God could use alternate materials and methods for building other worlds – and the laws of physical science for those worlds…those alternate realities – would differ from ours…and just to define terms – for me anyway , if it’s anything that exists in a world created by God or by the creatures of God – that’s reality…Even if it’s other dimensions or other worlds that are undetectable to us – that’s an alternate reality – plain old reality for the residents of those worlds - and that means we are an alternate reality to them.

Donated Tuesday … I mean I donated on Tuesday - I didn’t donate the actual day of the week

Bolshevik, you’re probably right! maybe anytime Grease Spotters revise / correct some TWI-doctrine they should end the post with “you’re welcome”.

John 14 makes me think Jesus Christ will have a major role in the creation & prep of our new “digs”: “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” John 14 My 2-bit theory on why TWI stumbles with Jesus Christ is that no one could drive the stick in wierwille’s jalopy of theology. I believe there’s at least 4 major elements to wierwille’s dogmatics: 1.His signature intuition 2.Fundamentalism 3.Spiritualism 4.Gnosticism Of the four - wierwille’s signature intuition is key to making it all work together in a Dr. Frankenstein sort of way His signature intuition = whatever he felt the explanation should be. And to be clear – it’s wierwille’s intuition over against your intuition or anyone else’s. Only wierwille’s intuition counts! That's the way cults work. Didn't you read the rule book? Rule # 1. Follow the cult-leader. Rule # 2. See Rule # 1. the slightly off-topic portion of our show: intuition I don’t mean to give intuition itself a bad rap. I believe our intuition should be integral with our more analytical study of the Scriptures...But it’s important to realize that it’s not perfect and it can be misinterpreted or even compromised by a seared conscience – certain passages like Proverbs 16:25 and Judges 21:25 will attest to that – we find that one’s feelings can be wrong, and not all inner leanings should be heeded. Because of our sinful nature, we are often prone to error and poor judgment. If relying only upon our own powers of discernment, we can be led astray. I believe people are created in God’s image and as such we reflect some unique characteristics of our Creator – like a moral compass, the ability to judge what is right from wrong and act accordingly. At times we may acquire knowledge without obvious deliberation. Perhaps that is what Ephesians 1:17 is talking about - “that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you…” People are not robots. We have freedom of will and some passages seem to suggest the more we align ourselves with the sentiment and moral demands of the Bible – the more reliable our instincts become – Psalm 37:23 and the Bible does seem to suggest that when we seek wisdom as our highest priority, our intuition can very well be a safeguard against tragic mistakes Proverbs 2:3-5 , Ecclesiastes 7:12 , Psalm 37:23 Psalm 111:10 , and James 1:5 . Surviving a harmful and controlling cult like The Way International is not simple or easy. One needs to consider the damage done to cognitive skills and self-confidence. TWI’s programs, classes, studies, and teachings are all designed to whittle down cognitive skills and self-confidence…I learned to NOT trust my own thinking process, emotions, and intuition. I was encouraged to check with upper leadership before I made any major decisions. I put my faith in wierwille, LCM, PFAL, and the Way Tree (it all is the cultic system) because I was led to believe it was all designed by God and that’s how God works – through the ministry – the cultic system. It all starts with the cult-leader. I trusted the intuition of a plagiarizing, pathological liar…a malignant narcissist…a megalomaniac…a drunkard…a sexual predator = victor paul wierwille. If the insight, ideas, ‘research’, or teaching did not have wierwille’s “signature” on it – in other words, unless I knew it was from him – I might doubt if it was true. wierwille’s signature intuition was like a manual transmission - allowing “the driver “ to change gears . Depending on his agenda he could interpret a passage with a fundamentalist’s literalism or spiritualize it to push his demonology or suggest hidden and deeper meanings with a Gnostic viewpoint. On different occasions I’ve heard wierwille spin the same passage several different ways. Adultery could be explained as spiritual adultery – shacking up with other gods – idolatry. Without wierwille’s signature intuition driven by his charisma and gravitas current cult-leaders can’t make it work - they’re grinding gears - they probably can’t reconcile earthly Jesus with resurrected / exalted Christ. They regurgitate the great principle instead of exploring the interagency of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit at work in each believer. And then there’s so-and-so here who frequently attempts to shift gears on a passage or something he said or even reinterpret something from PFAL that would make wierwille roll over in his grave - fortunately the dead are not alive now. Fellow Christians, we fare a lot better just looking for the natural sense...the obvious sense of Scripture and glean from legitimate sources stuff about the biblical languages, cultures, literary genres, etc.. We all don’t have to think alike...and we're not going to figure out everything...there's some pretty weird stuff in the Bible...the main thing is to use it as an aid to devotion - one of the catalysts in your transforming relationship with Jesus Christ...don't worship the book - worship God who inspired the book. And I don’t think we should approach the Bible expecting to find mathematical exactness, scientific precision, step-by-step how-to instructions, and explanations on exactly how God works. Instead of believing in wierwille’s great principle, try trusting the John 14-15-and-16 principle = The Father > The Son > The Holy Spirit > you.

I agree - and I’m trying to reimagine the ascension - instead of Jesus Christ floating up higher and higher until he’s a speck disappearing into a regular cloud - what if it looked to them like he started getting bigger and then seems to dissolve into a strange low lying thick mist that came out of nowhere.

New and improved packaging – Fundamentalism… …it’s the same God in a brand new box All the convenience of having God in a box… …and a manageable deity that can make others think you know what you’re talking about. I was reading TWI's reconciling others post - and wanted to address a 'side issue' - having a rigid interpretation of where 'the heavenlies' are...so -first the excerpts from TWI's post: Today, Jesus Christ is seated in the heavenlies at God’s own right hand, functioning as the head of the Church of the Body, as it says in Ephesians 1; but he did not leave his role on earth unattended. He delegated to born-again believers the power and authority to carry out his works, and greater, in his stead. It’s now our joy to assume this responsibility and represent him with all confidence… …What a joy we’ve been afforded to represent the Lord Jesus Christ on this earth, to carry out the works he did while here, and greater. Every day we can awake with enthusiasm and excitement to take the place of the absent Christ, reconciling men and women back to God in Christ’s stead. Excerpts from The Way International - Reconciling Others in Christ’s Stead ~ ~ ~ ~ Why do we have to assume that Jesus Christ being seated in the heavenlies at God’s own right hand is so far away? Where in the Bible does it indicate the distance from Earth to the divine thrones in the heavenlies? ~ ~ ~ ~ Stringing along New International Version Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”… Luke 17:20, 21 Is there a different way to 'discover' the kingdom of God? Was Jesus Christ alluding to other dimensions than our space-time continuum ? In the grand scheme of EVERYTHING – the BIG PICTURE – how does our way of understanding the world…the cosmos relate to space, time, and everything we know of – how does all that fit within the BIGGER PICTURE? We can try to put God in a box or pretend we can explain how He works - but that doesn't make it so! Our worldview has certainly expanded and is enhanced by the achievements in scientific disciplines – but there’s still a lot we don’t know. In the book by Ross, Hugh Beyond the Cosmos: The Extra-Dimensionality of God: What Recent Discoveries in Astronomy and Physics Reveal about the Nature of God (1996) Hardcover: Amazon.com: Books he discusses things like Jesus’ appearance to the disciples who were in a room with locked doors in John 20 . Ross says we don’t know what the capabilities of Christ’s new resurrected body are. One way it was possible appeals to supersymmetric string theory - assuming that Christ has at His command the elementary particles and fundamental forces of nature - Jesus Christ could have walked through a solid wall...dematerialize from one place and rematerialize inside the disciples' room...or any number of other ways. Also keep in mind supersymmetric string theory is just that – a theory – it is an attempt to explain all of the elementary particles and fundamental forces of nature in one theory by modeling them as vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings. For those interested in hearing more about superstring theory – I recommend Beyond Einstein: The Cosmic Quest for the Theory of the Universe: Kaku, Michio, Trainer Thompson, Jennifer: 8601420125582: Amazon.com: Books for such a deep and technical subject the book is an easy read – Michio Kaku is good at explaining complex stuff. ~ ~ ~ ~ Say, how about that cloud! New International Version After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight…Acts 1:9 With our thoughts of the relations of the earth to space and the surrounding orbs, we find it hard to follow that upward motion, and to ask what was its direction and where it terminated. We cannot get beyond the cloud; but that cloud was the token of the glory of the Eternal Presence, as the Shechinah that of old filled the Temple…from: Acts 1:9 After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. (biblehub.com) This was not the first occasion on which some of them at least had had his heavenly glory brought home to them in a similar way. The words “a cloud received him out of their sight” are reminiscent of those with which the Gospel incident of the transfiguration comes to an end: “a cloud came and overshadowed them; …and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!’ And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone” (Luke 9:34 – 36). They are reminiscent, too, of Jesus’ own language about the Parousia of the Son of Man – “coming in clouds with great power and glory” (Mark 13:26); “coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:62). The transfiguration, the ascension (as here described), and the Parousia are three successive manifestations of Jesus’ divine glory. The cloud in each case is to be understood as the cloud which envelops the glory of God (the shekhinah) – that cloud which, resting above the Mosaic tabernacle and filling Solomon’s temple, was a visible token to Israel that the divine glory had taken up residence there (Ex. 40:34; I Kings 8:10 – 11). So, in the last moment that the apostles saw their Lord with outward vision, they were granted “a theophany: Jesus is enveloped in the cloud of the divine presence.” From pages 37 & 38 of The Book of the Acts (New International Commentary on the New Testament): F. F. Bruce: 9780802821829: Amazon.com: Books In a science fiction movie, the special effects crew might use a fog machine during a scene where a creature crosses over to our dimension or an Earthship that lands on an unknown planet – the fog conveys feelings of otherworldliness…the mysterious…something inexplicable…utter strangeness… In the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible, Hardcover: Craig Keener, John Walton: 9780310431589 - Christianbook.com the authors suggest the biblical writers did not make such huge distinctions between the natural and supernatural realms. Rather things like the cloud of divine glory filling the temple or the cloud on the mount of transfiguration or the ascension were accepted as simply phenomena – signs, miracles and wonders. On page 157 of Dictionary of Biblical Imagery: An Encyclopaedic Exploration of the Images, Symbols, Motifs, Metaphors, Figures of Speech, Literary Patterns and Universal Images of the Bible (IVP Reference): Ryken, Leland, III, Professor Tremper Longman: 9780851117539: Amazon.com: Books under “cloud” it says rarely do clouds appear in the Bible in a simple meteorological context. The cloud represents God’s presence but also His hiddenness. ~ ~ ~ ~ Jesus Christ is one busy dude! Amplified Bible The Son is the radiance and only expression of the glory of [our awesome] God [reflecting God’s Shekinah glory, the Light-being, the brilliant light of the divine], and the exact representation and perfect imprint of His [Father’s] essence, and upholding and maintaining and propelling all things [the entire physical and spiritual universe] by His powerful word [carrying the universe along to its predetermined goal]. When He [Himself and no other] had [by offering Himself on the cross as a sacrifice for sin] accomplished purification from sins and established our freedom from guilt, He sat down [revealing His completed work] at the right hand of the Majesty on high [revealing His Divine authority] having become as much superior to angels, since He has inherited a more excellent and glorious name than they [that is, Son--the name above all names]. For to which of the angels did the Father ever say, “YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN (fathered) YOU [established You as a Son, with kingly dignity]”? And again [did He ever say to the angels], “I SHALL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”? And when He again brings the firstborn [highest-ranking Son] into the world, He says, “AND ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD ARE TO WORSHIP HIM.” And concerning the angels He says, “WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERING SERVANTS FLAMES OF FIRE [to do His bidding].” But about the Son [the Father says to Him], “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE SCEPTER OF [absolute] RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS [integrity, virtue, uprightness in purpose] AND HAVE HATED LAWLESSNESS [injustice, sin]. THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” And, “YOU, LORD, LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH IN THE BEGINNING, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN [forever and ever]; AND THEY WILL ALL WEAR OUT LIKE A GARMENT, AND LIKE A ROBE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME [forever], AND YOUR YEARS WILL NEVER END.” But to which of the angels has the Father ever said, “SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND [together with me in royal dignity], UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET [in triumphant conquest]”? Are not all the angels ministering spirits sent out [by God] to serve (accompany, protect) those who will inherit salvation? [Of course they are!] …Hebrews 1: 3 – 14 Amplified Bible It seems to me The Way International is doubling down on wierwille’s absent Christ. As a former fundamentalist I can see how wierwille came to that conclusion. I read that Jesus ascended into heaven…He’s seated at the right hand of God – those are spatial references. But that’s limiting Him to just 3 dimensions. Our physical space is observed to have three large spatial dimensions and, along with time, is a boundless 4-dimensional continuum known as space-time. Theoretical physicists have come up with a number of concepts that incorporate extra physical measurements describing more dimensions – from 10 to 26 dimensions!… Jesus Christ is not absent – but maybe our natural world and the supernatural world are commingled – and ‘stuff’ in the coalescence – for some reason are obscured from our senses. Scripture indicates Jesus Christ is present and active in the world! New International Version Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it…Mark 16:20 New International Version When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me…John 15:26 Amplified Bible God [in His eternal plan] chose to make known to them how great for the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in and among you, the hope and guarantee of [realizing the] glory…Colossians 1:27

I love the picture !!!! And in other news… Though it was Martin Luther King Jr. Day, and the mail was being held in abeyance, longstanding grads (some had to be propped up) patiently await the arrival of mail from HQ.

Shingles doesn’t care

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1 What an insult to Jesus Christ the only begotten son of God - for someone to say He aspired up to the Word to the extent that he became the Word made flesh - that totally contradicts what John 1 says! What a blatant attempt to push people’s buttons - saying stupid $hit like that…but what the hell do you expect from someone who acts like a troll.

Hidden versus Absent…variations on a theme There’s an observational difference between hydropower (waterpower) and electric power: I learned about electronic circuits from my mentor who used the analogy of water in a garden hose to describe the various activities of electricity and conditions of a conductor: current, flow, resistance, a short, an open and a ground. If the hose was clear plastic, you could see the presence and activity of water within the hose. An extension cord plugged into a wall outlet will have approximately 120 volts of Alternating Current electricity present. I can plug my circular saw into that extension cord and cut a 2x4 piece of lumber. Now if the outer jacket of the extension cord was clear plastic so that you could see the copper wires – you still would not see the electricity in the cord - it is invisible. Unplug it from the wall outlet and the extension cord is dead – electricity is absent. Absent is not the same thing as hidden. The hidden energy supply of my home comes from the power company’s electrical substation a few miles from my home. In February 2021 there was a statewide power outage – power was absent from my home for 3 days. ~ ~ ~ ~ New Living Translation You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.” Luke 17:21 There are three popular interpretations of Jesus’ words in Luke 17:21 that the kingdom of God is within you (or among you): 1) the kingdom of God is essentially inward, within man’s heart; 2) the kingdom is within your reach if you make the right choices; and 3) the kingdom of God is in your midst in the person and presence of Jesus. The best of these interpretations, it seems, is the third: Jesus was inaugurating the kingdom as He changed the hearts of men, one at a time. From: What did Jesus mean when He said, “The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21, KJV)? | GotQuestions.org ~ ~ ~ ~ And in other news…uhm…well it’s actually old news…but sorta relates - something I said in an earlier post ( here ) is still relevant – a revised version follows: Something I’ve noticed with fundamentalism is their myopic assumption that the transcendence and immanence of Christ are two distinct experiences/attributes which are separated by time. They are not! We really can’t put limits on divine attributes – even though wierwille did that frequently… We read in Acts Christ ascended into heaven…we read that He’s seated at the right hand of God. We read he will return someday…Yet Christ also said I am with you always and in Mark it says the Lord worked with them confirming their message…we read He is head of the Church…Immanence is NOT absent. Hidden or invisible is NOT absent !

here's the link - Rocky's comment on the Why PFAL sucks thread

So much of the Bible is self-evident – and needs no explanation (Psalm 119:130) – which speaks to the practicality of the Bible (Matthew 7:24) - and we find in choosing to do God’s will the Bible is self-authenticating (John 7:17). In my opinion the Bible is not a book to be worshipped where Gnostic-types assume they can dole out gems of hidden meanings to appease their imaginary audience. Rather the Bible is a means to an end – and not an end in itself. The Bible is really just a starting point. We contemplate the Holy Spirit-enriched contents, and then the Lord has something to work with . I think if we make that a habit, there’s an ongoing process – a dynamic transforming relationship with the Lord (II Timothy 2:7). Contrary to the picture that wierwille drilled into my head – that I desperately needed his PFAL class and thereafter would sit at his feet enthralled by his interpretation of the Bible. I find that God has got an all-in-one 'package' going on: God the Father - - > Jesus Christ - - > the Holy Spirit - - > me reading, reflecting, and doing the will of God (I John 2:27). New King James Version The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple…Psalm 119:130 New International Version “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock…Matthew 7:24 New International Version Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own…John 7:17 New International Version Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this…II Timothy 2:7 New International Version As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him…I John 2:27

Yeah – that’s creepy…On another thread, I think Rocky mentioned something along the lines of mass hypnosis.

Yeah – I’ve got a convenient system - 8 versions in 2 volumes…kinda bulky – but handy: The Essential Evangelical Parallel Bible (NKJV/ESV/NLT/The Message), hardcover: John R. Kohlenberger III: 9780195281804 - Christianbook.com NIV, KJV, NASB, Amplified Parallel Bible--bonded leather, burgundy: 9780310446682 - Christianbook.com

more on the great unprincipled cult-leaders false image...a fantasy…though in itself, it is a void, it still represents something – like an icon, the graphic representation on a screen – you click on it and it launches the program. For some reason that made me think of idols and revisit the great unprincipled cult-leader. The great unprincipled cult-leader: The unscrupulous cult-leader who is deluded can only speak to others who are enamored with his greatness. Through indoctrination the unscrupulous cult-leader in effect teaches his or her ‘creation’ in you (the cultic mindset) – which is an alternate standard of how to think and act – and becomes manifested in the senses realm to the degree you become assimilated in the harmful and controlling cult. ~ ~ ~ ~ A cult of personality, or a cult of the leader, is the result of an effort which is made to create an idealized and heroic image of a leader, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. From Cult of personality - Wikipedia Since the indoctrination process usually revolves around the cult-leader, the procedure is deemed successful when people are enamored with the cult-leader. Perhaps one of the most elusive things about the cult of wierwille is that he looms large – becoming greater than the sum of his plagiarized works and hypocritical stage act. He became an icon…a symbol of God’s Word to modern humankind. Thinking symbolically is the foundation of everything we do -- we live in a symbolic world…Symbols are Shorthand For Ideas…Name some symbols. The Christian cross, the American flag, a wedding ring, a designer label. When we think about symbols, these are the sort of things that come to mind -- signs that act as a stand-in or shorthand for a whole set of ideas. From When Did We Become Mentally Modern? : NPR ~ ~ ~ ~ An idol is a symbol. I listened to a fascinating talk by Michael Heiser on idols. Some ideas from MH: In the ancient cultures an idol was made so that an entity…some deity could attach itself to the idol…it could reside there…it was the method for connecting to followers. If the idol was destroyed in battle the people made new one that the entity could live in…In biblical thought God wants to reside with His people. God doesn’t need an object to attach to or to reside in – He’s everywhere! When people go for idols, they are trading the presence of God for some infinitesimal object! From: Michael S. Heiser - What's the Real Reason God Forbid Idols? | Facebook I never considered that we have a tendency to make idols out of anything – until I read a fascinating book Idols for destruction: Christian faith and its confrontation with American society: Schlossberg, Herbert: 9780840752826: Amazon.com: Books One of the verses mentioned was New International Version “Son of man, these men have set up idols in their hearts and put wicked stumbling blocks before their faces. Should I let them inquire of me at all? Ezekiel 14:3 Observe it says idols in their hearts. It’s invisible to others because they can’t see what’s in my heart…but what’s in the heart eventually becomes visible – here's Proverbs 4:23 in several versions: New International Version Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. New Living Translation Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life. Amplified Bible Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life. Contemporary English Version Carefully guard your thoughts because they are the source of true life. NET Bible Guard your heart with all vigilance, for from it are the sources of life. The heart refers to the mind as the center of thinking and reason and includes emotions, the will and thus the whole being, affects speech and conduct…Jesus taught the same concept – and when a person has a defiled heart it’s expressed in both what the person says and does: 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?” 6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” 14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.” 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.) 20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” Mark 7 ~ ~ ~ ~ wierwille died but current top leadership for all practical purposes act as his high priests – they are the intermediary between the works and words of wierwille and his followers – they are authorized to properly interpret all things wierwille and enforce psychological punishment on the disobedient. The intellectual and emotional appeal of wierwille is truly iconic – in fact from 12 years of dedicated involvement I frequently had - what I consider now an unsettling experience - when reading the Bible. I had sat through the class so many times and was so familiar with the class collaterals that it all was like an interpretive filter and PFAL-augmentation popping up in my head when reading the Bible. Like an icon on a computer screen, I’d read a verse and it was like a program launched relevant wierwille-definitions, remarks, concepts, and symbolism. It’s the same as having a portable study bible with extensive notes and commentary in your head. Yikes! Now that’s indoctrination! That is the idea behind the great unprincipled cult-leader…That unscrupulous cult-leader wierwille who was seriously deluded could only speak to others who were / are enamored with his greatness. Even now in 2023 through PFAL-Today-brainwashing unscrupulous cult-leaders still carry on the mission - creating and reinforcing the cultic mindset in grads – which is an alternate standard…the wierwille-standard of how to think and act – and becomes manifested in the senses realm to the degree you become integrated in the harmful and controlling cult of The Way International.