T-Bone

Allow me to interpret your response for our viewers at home by slipping on my PFAL-colored-glasses: Mindset = a mental attitude or inclination and believing = what you anticipate receiving, your expectation. Both biases are provided for you free of charge [well…no…they charged for the PFAL Class] by TWI. Yes…that works out quite well for them actually…"We'll tell you what it is and how to enjoy the fellowship and move the Word in the spirit with the love of God. Yes, we will define all that for you." And you think they did this in accordance with Romans 10:14,15? Okay – let's look at that, Romans 10:14,15 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" What TWI does is modify that a little - teaching people to call on God and tell Him what they believe He should do for them! And I do understand your viewpoint…from within the confines of this dark cold prison a good way to appease the prisoners is to keep handing out the Kool-Aid…that God-like mindset of telling God what to do and insisting you have an attitude of love and meekness. Yes! Yes! Get this message out to the others, right away, my child…I bid you Godspeed vpwspeed!

An idea that will usually cross my mind as I read through some threads is observing the intellectual straitjacket that TWI ever so surreptitiously slips over the unsuspecting follower. This straitjacket is fabricated out of TWI's dogmatic rules for the interpretation of Scripture and enforced by the dictatorial and overbearing leadership. I realize that "dictatorial" and "overbearing" are redundant – but I wanted to emphasize how TWI likes to make double-sure that "their will be done." This topic is certainly not new to GSC. I just wanted to bring it up again as it is always fun to re-address issues to garner fresh insight or draw upon thoughts that have simmered awhile since the last discussion. This intellectual straitjacket suppresses both critical and creative thinking. And in my humble opinion critical and creative thinking are two of the most important processes necessary for dealing with the circumstances of life. I also think if these processes are squelched in any way by an imposing group of people – it leaves the straitjacketed follower very few options except for the obvious one – the overbearing leadership will tell them what to do in that circumstance. Critical thinking. It was very convenient to have TWI figure out the interpretation of the Bible for me. It takes all the guess work out of it – and eliminates the worry of being wrong…After leaving TWI I've become a bit of a rebel now – not rebellious towards God – I'm just not going to let any person dictate to me what I should think about a passage of Scripture. In my humble opinion the Bible is God's message – so who has the right to put words in God's mouth? I think God created this amazing processor we call a brain and I don't think His intention was that we all think alike – but that we just THINK! You know...use our brains...develop our critical and creative thinking skills. I believe studying the Bible is more about obedience to God than becoming an overbearing, pontificating, dogmatizing ar$$. I try to follow a guideline in John 7:17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself." I remember during my Corps training people were praised for teaching stuff right out of VPW's Blue Book during lunch. Yeah, that's called "making it your own" – use VPW's Scripture references and pat phrases but add a verse or two of your own and a personal incident showing your application of the principle. And I remember oh so well LCM barking out the guidelines for our research paper – stick with PFAL stuff – don't try to re-invent the wheel. Creative thinking. Being in a band while in residence I wanted us to perform a song I wrote. Well – you've gotta run the words by God's Editor in Chief…or a reasonable facsimile. I remember the assistant Corps coordinator reviewing the words to my song in front of the band – taking out phrases, changing words…it got kinda tedious…I wound up saying "Hey, let's just forget about it." I also remember after the Patriarch reading having the novel idea of teaching the PFAL class myself. Okay – so the PFAL class is a bunch of crap…but I hadn't gotten that far yet spiritually . I merely mention the fact of me starting to flex my creative wings once this mental straitjacket started coming apart at the seams as leadership scrambled to put out fires.

I said this on another thread – about the therapeutic and strengthening process experienced at GSC. After someone is injured they must do physical therapy to gain their strength back. A healthy person must do physical exercise to maintain their strength. I see GSC being like that for one's thinking process…I think it's very useful to have people come on GSC parading TWI's craziness – everybody gets a good workout…Okay – I know you macho Grease Spotters grunt "No Pain no Gain – throw another TWIt on the rack…bet I can press it!" Sorry…I'm a little past my prime and get concerned more about constipation than extreme exercise. But I do like getting rid of the leftover TWI crap in my life...so for me it's more like "Let's get the $h1t out of TWIt."...Now I didn't say "Let's kick the $h1t out of TWIt." For that wouldn't be a loving thing to do. Remember brethren and sistren we're to love the TWIt not the $h1t.

Okay – I’ll agree with you…I’m not blaming TWI for my initial involvement. I’m just blaming them for the life-sucking entanglement that followed. Perhaps you missed my specific complaint so I’ll say it again – this time with feeling: I regret I was dumb enough to buy into TWI's doctrines and programs that sucked away MY time, MY energy, MY finances, MY love for God, MY love for wife and kids…And I'm one of the lucky ones…being a guy - I wasn't drugged and raped. …Man oh man, TWI not only gives Christianity a bad name but religion in general…I’ll tell you what – fellowship with my God really took off once I left that gosh-awful TWI idolatry and didn’t have their self-serving doctrines and programs dominating every facet of my life…Those invisible giants can loom large in the soul of a simpleton.

I thought SkyRider's post # 1 was very insightful - in its entirety...OldiesMan in his post # 8 quoted only the first part which I highlighted in bold red and then he said this about it: Just couldn't let this one sneak by…It figures you'd pick out the first part of SkyRider's post that describes only the innocent looking tip of this life-sucking iceberg [a.k.a. TWI]. While TWI's doctrines and programs are powerfully effective in their indoctrination and manipulation process – it is an insidious operation in that it has a gradual and cumulative effect – one that takes TIME – which was the point of the rest of his post!…I'll give you the benefit of a doubt – perhaps you don't see the correlation. Some people don't see the relationship between years of smoking and having major health issues either…Perhaps they're stuck on figuring out another mystery they've stumbled upon – that people who have more birthdays live longer.

Doing okay, FrickaFrack?...What music do you have that's good for the soul right now?

Great post/thread Polar Bear !!!!!! "I'm trying to dismantle the warped impression of what TWI practices as the standard for the renewed mind." Good luck on that one!...And Bliss I love your comment about TWI – "They were so scared to allow the Lord to be in charge.....................of anything!" In Commentary of the New Testament: Romans author R.C.H. Lenski refers to Martin Luther preaching on Romans 12:2: "Luther writes: He does not say: I command you!" for he is preaching to those who are already Christians and godly through the faith in the new man, who are not to be forced with commands but to be admonished to do willingly what is to be done in regard to the sinful old man… …A law-driver insists with threats and penalties; a preacher of grace lures and incites with divine goodness and compassion shown to us; for he wants no unwilling works and reluctant services, he wants joyful and delightful services of God." End of excerpt How many times did I hear that gosh-awful phrase "just renew your mind" – barked at me in such a Moses-the-law-giver tone…Makes sense though if I jump back into that old context…since TWI was in charge of renewing my mind…What TheEvan said makes a lot more sense to me now, "I've come to believe that renewing our minds is a work the Lord does in us because we are new creation people. Christianity is not a mind-control exercise..." Yeah…the Lord's in charge of true Christianity…and I guess TWI is in charge of …how did Polar Bear put it…oh yeah…violating the back door of truth. Eeeeeeewwww what does that mean? I don't know - but yeeeech - terrible mind picture...terrible...gross...yeah it's gross alright what TWI does to truth.

Excellent points, Bagpipes! It’s pathetic – and almost laughable when I think back on how my TWI-brain dealt with situations by such a handicapped…restrained…hog-tied… – process. As you indicated TWI had a one-size-fits-all approach to stuff. Instead of being a catalyst for people to engage their own mental resources TWI’s doctrines and programs were more like a neutralizing agent – rendering true personhood ineffective. Instead of doing things my way [or trying to figure out what my way was] I did it their way…I know this kind of stuff like suppression of the self, identity, etc. - has been handled before on other threads but it’s fun to go over this stuff again…It‘s fun for me anyway… By all means - please do!

What gives you that idea? What about someone who is not a Christian – who is the real him or her? And before Christ…let’s see…Moses – who was the real Moses?

Alright...since we're all being so open and honest in this lovey dovey koom-by-yah session...I've gotta say...my absolutely favorite line in Sir Todd's prose is

Excellent, SkyRider !!!!!!!!!!! I love it when you guys nail some detail of TWI's bs arsenal!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, MountainTopCO, I think the problem is actually due to leaving the PFAL-colored-glasses on. It re-formats everything. Don't believe me? Alright then, first look at my text without the PFAL-colored-glasses: "The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside." Now…put the PFAL-colored-glasses on…hey - be careful with them…don't want you breaking one of my favorite TWI souveneirs…hmmmm…not bad…it gives you that I-know-more-than-God look…maybe you want to try some in titanium frames – they're indestructible – even last through a holocaust…huh? Oh yeah right – back to our experiment – now look at my text again: The most successful ministry is one that's based on a farce to ensure stupidity – one that removes awareness. It may seem inconceivable and makes no sense to outsiders –but that's The Way for yah.

Wowwee, the Kool-Aid is strong with this one…the trick of manipulation is that you're not aware you're being manipulated. Which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes – it's currently my signature – here I'll just bring it up here so ya'll can see it better: "The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside." [from Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom]

Yet another example of the fine art of blame-shifting…Or maybe – let's just give credit where credit is due. I regret I was dumb enough to buy into TWI's doctrines and programs that sucked away MY time, MY energy, MY finances, MY love for God, MY love for wife and kids…And I'm one of the lucky ones…being a guy - I wasn't drugged and raped…If TWI had such a laissez faire attitude about people coming and going - why did leadership frequently pepper their teachings with the subliminal message that if you left TWI you're walking away from God and bad $ h1t is gonna happen.

Thanks Sirguessalot !!!! That's one of the keewlest things I've ever heard about dreams...Liked your dream too...I'm going to have to try that twilight journaling stuff myself...sounds like fun...

Why that's just tremendous! Praise the Lord! Isn't God wonderful! He's still at work in the world today helping people understa… [reader, please insert cartoon sound effect of screeching brakes here]…Whoa, whoa, whoa, back up a minute – I thought you were talking about God Almighty. I failed to notice the small "g" – of "godly." My bad. You're attributing all this to the little god vpw…Dagnabit – I didn't know this was that kind of revival meeting – to revive an old idol. It's a disgrace for me to be here today! [reader, please cue up sound track of man stomping out of tent revival as choir is singing "To vic be the glory great things he has done..."]

Nottawayfer – I know what you mean about journaling being a laborious process – I’m not saying I’m a big fan of journaling – not yet anyway. But the process does intrigue me – and it’s growing on me. That’s part of why I started this thread. WaterBuffalo – I will have to check out that book you mentioned - Something More; Excavating Your Authentic Self by Sarah Ban Breathnach. I usually read 2 or 3 books at a time…I’m not an intellectual – just a slow reader/learner that gets bored and jumps back and forth from book to book . Ex10 – I agree there’s other ways to foster self-awareness. And meeting you, your family and friends at the Texas BBQ I saw how relationships are a BIG deal to you – and that you are comfortable with being yourself. You were such a gracious host and worked wonders to put my shy little soul at ease! Bagpipes – do explain the stuff about self-analysis differing from self-awareness…Interesting - you mentioned dreams, goals, and hope with journaling…Those things seem to crop up in mine. I look at them like mental doodling. Some things start as nothing really…some silly idea or a “I would like to do blah blah someday…” And I do see the difference between posting at GSC and journaling in terms of not editing what I write in the journal. However – there’s a honing process I like when dialoging with people on GSC – I’m “forced” to crystallize a key thought – and there’s also sort of a reality-check when talking with other people – I may be kidding myself over something but it might not fly from another person’s viewpoint or experience. Twinky – That’s what I was talking about with saying there was a similarity between journaling and posting/reading on GSC. And I kind of feel like you do towards reviewing my old Corps journals – man was I a dullard! And congrats on the new job! TempleLady – Wow – this thread has been graced by three of the lovely ladies of the Texas BBQ [counting Bagpipes and Ex10] I’m still licking my chops over that delicious reindeer sausage you brought! I like your mentioning of “esoteric ramblings” while journaling – again a sort of mental doodling thing – fun! Sirguessalot – It’s always a good day when you grace a thread with your poetic “tad rants.” That’s an intriguing term you had - “the journey of self-awareness.” It’s a journey - - and sometimes I get so impatient. It’s a simple pleasure – like reading a book – sometimes I sit down and just read through threads like this one – think about what someone said – it’s a nice little break from this hectic world. LikeanEagle – I said to Tonto the other day, “My problem is I don’t know how to relax.” I’m always on the go – doing stuff for work or around the house. I think journaling has a calming effect for me – “forcing” me to settle down and find some quiet place inside. Pond – I think you’re describing my journals . When I’m crafting a post for GSC – I stew and fret over the turn of a phrase – wonder how it’s going to compare to gifted writers [people like Bagpipes and Sirguessalot just bowl me over – salute! ]. Anyway…it’s actually a relief to kick back and just let my writing flow – it’s sort of a Cro-Magnon meets Steve Martin style of prose :) .

I couldn’t imagine God that hard up for someone to write His message as to employ an unrepentant sexual predator…I mean…how much credence would the Scriptures have if there was a verse written by VPW like: “You shall not commit adultery – but as for me and my motor coach – I’m exempt.”

Amazing…how we’ve gone from the manipulative nature of the selective teachings of TWI To the issue side-stepping technique of selective debate ….Hmmmmmmm…there’s a striking similarity between the two – don’t yah think…

The following is a modified chorus from a popular Paul Simon tune that has been approved for all audiences by the Department of Public Transportation: 50 ways to clear a room [chorus] Let it slip out the back, Jack Sans Port-a-San, Stan Don't need a bidet, Oi vey Just let one go free But not on the bus, Gus Folks'll be disgusted much Grab the bathroom key, Lee Please do it for me

Actually, I made my points already, the main ones being: 1. Many followers of VPW were [and still are] deceived by the smokescreen of hypocrisy and are ill-equipped in matters of moral judgment [posts 53, 55]. 2. Jesus instructed believers on matters of discernment in Matthew 7 one of which is identifying false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing by their fruit [posts 55, 58]. 3. I would not put VPW in the same category as the writers of Scripture – in my opinion, his behavior calls for the appropriate label of sexual predator . 4. Many are so enamored with the persona of VPW that they are unwilling to see his true character . …and one observation… You have been arguing all through this thread and seem to have a hard time understanding what I say – as in your post 68 – you twist my criticizing VPW's character into a plug for Romans 10:9. And really all your posts have been a one-sided argument – I've been saying one thing and you go off in another direction – side-stepping the issues. So...I guess it's good we've had this review. :)

Wow - do you all do anything extra special on St. Patrick's Day? ...Oh and a warm welcome to Patrick and Sarah!

Lots of happy birthday blessings to you, Ex10 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

None are so blind as those who will not see... listen…or read…er…mmmm…or something like that…I never said anything about whether he was a Christian or not… I said VPW's character doesn't even come close to what the Bible says exemplifies a Christian! Character is what you are when no one else is around – yeah – just VPW all by himself in the Motor Coach - oh..except for some poor woman that he doped up – well – mmmmm – guess she didn't count since she was half out of it anyway.

I guess that’s your take on things… What about I Corinthians 3: 6? Paul said he planted, Apollos watered but GOD gave the increase! Mine? When I think of how God works with us sinners – I tend to give credit where credit is due. God can work things out for His people IN SPITE of people and circumstances – just as easily as He can work ALONG WITH obedient believers and favorable situations. They didn’t need anything like the Internet back then to expose the sin of people – I think God handled that nasty role just fine – hmmmmm – I’m thinking of Nathaniel confronting David or Peter confronting Ananias and Sapphira for starters…A pity you’re so enamored with VPW as to besmirch the life of someone like David – whom the Bible says was a man after God’s own heart…So now you want me to switch from judging a person’s character to comparing which sins are worse. I never said any of VPW’s sins were worse than those who wrote the Bible. I’m saying VPW’s character doesn’t even come close to what the Bible says exemplifies a Christian!