T-Bone

I guess you forgot raising hell was YOUR MISSION. ...and to be honest...I think your real mission is to provide a cheap form of entertainment...and if you lighten up, drop the mean and nasty persona you may start achieving your mission...

The Farther-from-the-truth, son of dumb, and the wholly ghost-writer...[okay – the last one is a bit of a stretch but would be applicable to someone adept at re-interpreting VPW's books – revealing their even deeper "spiritual" message – you know – what the author actually meant to say].

What you're having a problem with – is using your brain - compared to the amount of normal people that come to GSC. You see, normal people actually learned many things from their TWI experiences. And that's referring to both the good and bad experiences – because that's the way life is – that's reality. Normal people experience successes, failures, happiness, sadness, tragedy, friendships, betrayals, etc. throughout their entire lives! Smart people learn from their experiences and move on – they don't live in the past. They are strong people too – who muster up the strength to deal with any harm from the bad experiences – for healing, understanding and growth – to CONTINUE on life's journey. And most GSC folks don't live in some delusion where all is right with TWI world – or ever was. I certainly don't need YOU to re-interpret MY experience for me through your ruse-colored-glasses. You don't need to wrap your mind around anyone else's experiences – since that would only cloud the real issue – TWI has its bs wrapped around your head! Yes, CK – let's think about the facts, as you put it [except I corrected your grammar and spelling]: You have 351 posts and have been a GSC member since February 18 2006. That's a little after I joined GSC…Where were you in 1984? Here's where I was - fact: September 14, 1984 VPW showed a porn video to our Family Corps. Fact: The porn video was his favorite – a dog having sex with a woman. A porn video he typically showed many of the Corps. Fact: This was the entire Family Corps 10 and 11. Fact: Teenagers of Family Corps were present – including a 16-year-old girl who VPW called up front to show her his porn pen [pen with moving figures of man and woman having sex]. Fact: The name of this thread is TWI was great – heck, you were there. Realization: Yup, TWI was great at poisoning the minds of their leadership-in-training with VPW's sexual perversions – heck, I was there to see it happen!

Understood - I'm sorry - my bad.

CK, are you serious? When people start thinking all hell breaks loose? Do you honestly believe God Almighty wants us to turn off our brains? Jesus said the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul and mind [Matthew 22:37]! And to clarify my intentions – I am not expecting you to forsake the truth in exchange for my "so called facts." I don't expect you to change your beliefs over any of my or anyone else's personal experiences with TWI. I am calling attention to the fact of something YOU are experiencing. I have been trying to get you to understand that some of the doctrines of VPW and TWI have "stolen" the truth from you – in that they have not only presented a skewed interpretation of certain passages of Scripture. That is only half the problem. The other issue is that people adopt their shoddy way of processing information. Instead of seeking improvement, questioning, and developing thinking skills - followers typically absorb whatever TWI puts out. This process only perpetuates whatever faults there are in any particular doctrine. Followers succumb to the intellectual straitjacket of TWI - that you can't go beyond what you're taught. According to your post # 50 on the Apostle or Lord Wierwille thread, Jesus Christ has been eliminated from your circle of trust: You quote from the Bible and say you believe the truth – yet it appears to me you have been deprived of the living truth Jesus Christ. With the high regard that you have for VPW as evidenced in your passionate defense of him - it looks to me like you've elevated him to a position equal to Jesus Christ. It is very odd to see in discussions between you and others – a competition between VPW and Jesus Christ. When I read passages about the supremacy of Christ like in Colossians – it looks to me like it is YOU who have forsaken the truth, captivated by certain doctrines of a man, VPW. Colossians 2:2-15 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. When I read the above passage and think of some of your recent posts – some things come to mind. In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge [verse 3] – not in anyone's doctrine or interpretation of the Bible; my faith is to be in Christ [verse 5] – not in anyone else. That there will be people in the world who will try to get me to forsake the truth through beguiling words and philosophies [verses 4 and 8] and I think much of what comes out of TWI falls into this category. Above all, I no longer have to fear demons, hell breaking loose or be afraid of using my brain to think, question, explore, etc. Because I have received Jesus as my lord [verse 6] and hold to Him and He holds me, I am complete in Him [verse 10]. Moreover, He is the head of all principality and power [verse 10] and has beaten those demons [verse 15] that VPW and TWI said I should fear…You say Christians who left TWI have failed to hold on to the truth. I say if there are any Christians who hold on to TWI – they have failed to see the supremacy of Christ.

CK, I think your hatred and anger is misdirected. It should be focused towards the organization that has secretly neutralized your capacity to reason. And hampered by this acquired weakness you limp through the motions of lashing out at everyone – except for the one most deserving of your pent up anger and hatred – the one who's doctrine has done this to you - VPW. This pattern seems to repeat itself in your posts – and therefore it's appropriate that I repeat my reply to your post below: There are times as you limp along with your cumbersome idol that you will experience anger and confusion because others have not offered you assistance in carrying such a debilitating load – but rather they have encouraged you to cut it loose. This is a perfect example, of former TWI followers showing you the way to true freedom and you vomit on them.

Not in Texas. It rained most of yesterday. Looks overcast today...Merry Christmas anyway!!!!!!!!!

CK, you may find this hard to believe but I really do understand where you're coming from. Like Outofdafog was saying TWI has a knack for getting followers to imprison their own minds through filters and fears. The demons I used to fear when I was in TWI turned out to be reason, understanding, discernment, self-awareness, perception, etc…What you call the power of God that you think gives you an impenetrable shield to outsider's words is actually the tyrannical mind-control of TWI. And that reminds me of a favorite quote of mine that happens to be my signature right now. I'll bring it up here for a closer look – it's my little Christmas present to you. It didn't cost me anything but may cost you any hope of real freedom if you continue to buy TWI's bs. "The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside." [from Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom]

You’ve got me thinking there, alcoholics’ eyes may eventually turn yellow and I bet he thought he had a red-hot light saber.

Thanks for the update, Jonny - still praying - you all have a Merry Christmas too!!!!!!!!!!!

You’ve got that right, Potato. Lately when I read his posts the funny grammar and immaturity remind me of Eric Cartman on South Park -

Patrick and Sarah, I am sorry your thread has taken a turn for the worse – but it seems that one poster in particular has chosen to ignore your suggestion and instead prove how toxic some of TWI's doctrines can be – especially when all reason and Christian love are excluded as well. He also typifies TWI's propensity to think they are God-on-a-stick...I wonder if there's any reference to Jesus on the cross in that? Better save that for Doctrinal and another day…and even if there is…TWI was never interested in Jesus anyway – His name or person…and judging by the way VPW and many TWI leadership acted - they took the place of the absent Christ. As evidenced in these posts below where the poster takes it upon himself to act as a Christ-like pontificating-judge-on-a-PFAL-throne towards anyone that poses a threat to the worship of his idol: There are times as you limp along with your cumbersome idol that you will experience anger and confusion because others have not offered you assistance in carrying such a debilitating load – but rather they have encouraged you to cut it loose. This is a perfect example, of former TWI followers showing you the way to true freedom and you vomit on them.

I’m beginning to get the idea that all four are one and the same. Way to go on one-upping the Trinity…Don’t really know which title works best for such a variegated idol as this: Apile of bs or Load of bs.

Mrs. Lingo, you and family are in our thoughts and prayers, love Tonto + T-Bone.

How do you know what VPW's intentions were? Intention is something in the mind – is it not? When you said: "Even giving a person's name where he learned from is poor thievery. Why even mention them, if stealing is one's INTENT?" You're confusing the issue – the way I see it stealing was the method – he intended to receive the credit for another person's work. Now if you want to draw any similarities – perhaps motive is closer to intent – not method. There has to be something in it for the perpetrator – what will they gain from their act… VPW did NOT try to hide where he got his material…in the typical sense of when we think "hide" we think of it as putting something out of sight – that would have been dumb – would have drawn attention to the act, making himself look like he's doing something wrong - a good way to act innocent. He chose to "hide" it in plain view. "No evil intent here, folks, all my cards are on the table…yup…great minds think alike…this is really all public domain stuff – well, shucks it's all God's domain – and I work for him." And when you speak of intent – there's a lot to that. A person sees something they want [motive]. Now what if this thing is beyond their reach – but they want it anyway – and they want it so bad they'll do anything to get it [unethical intent]. And while intent is self-centered it is not stupid! It could be a thief using stealth to get around a watchman or a hacker through "social engineering" tricking a person into trusting them and reveal passwords or weak spots in a system. Both take cunning, forethought, skills, etc…What you interpret as VPW being honest about his sources [like having their books around, naming them, etc.] I interpret it as that's what he wanted people to think, it's a good trick a con-man will do to win your trust. What was his intention, what was his motive? We don't know. But the FACT remains – he plagiarized.

Perhaps people misunderstood what he meant when he said he was working on his doctorate. Maybe he meant he was copying someone else’s work and had to doctor-it up to look like his own.

This is truly scary stuff!!!!How gullible are you? Do you fall for every scam out there? Let’s give the car thief you catch in the act the benefit of a doubt: “Oh I’m sorry – this is your car?!? Shoot, it looked so much like my car. Sorry about the busted window. Darn, I lose my keys have the time, don’t yah know – had to break into my own house twice this week.” …Or try this one for believability: A thief explaining to the Joe’s Pawn Shop Clerk, “I swear I didn’t steal this Laptop! I found it by the curb…with the trash…yeah, that’s the ticket. Maybe someone thought it was broke and they threw it away…But it still works! See – the screen saver is running now….hhmmmmm…neat little marquee message there Get Cash Fast at Joe’s Pawn Shop.” How yah doin’ on the test so far? Let’s skip to category number 3. A plagiarist when confronted with the true source of his material responds: “Wow, it’s amazing how great minds think alike.”

...ouch...the stinging words of a spelling bee...

I agree...at least you've got your facts in order [said with glee - :) ].

It might help if you take off those PFAL-colored-glasses when you read someone's post. My how quick you are to jump on anything that attacks your little idol…Honestly now, CK – are you really that dense or you're just trying to rile people up? Did I ever say that I never sinned? No – what I did was list the specific sins [and some fairly hefty ones I might add] that I never committed – here yah go let's review that again: You must have missed a verse like Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. It's funny how some people so fixate on their own interpretation of the Bible that they get tunnel vision and miss the whole point of a passage. Like what you did with me. I listed the specific sins I've never committed and you somehow think I'm saying I never sinned and go quoting a verse about all men have sinned. What's the weightier matter in our discussion now? Well, you can speak for yourself – so I'll tell you my side. I think the Bible is clear on all sin being bad. And I also think the Bible reveals a code of justice. The principle of proportionate punishment can be gathered by noting the more serious sin requires more severe punishment. From that I take it some sins are worse than others – I would think so in terms of how it can effect and shape a character, a destiny, etc. And there's one more angle to why I specified those particular sins in my post. The Bible is very clear on the great spiritual/mental/physical/social damage that adultery and alcoholism can do to the one dominated by those specific sins [covered quite a bit in Proverbs]. Now let's take that person and elevate him to a position of authority. VPW portrayed himself as a minister of God. Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Maybe that's why passages in Timothy, Peter and a few other places hold ministers to a higher standard for a code of conduct.

That's quite a mouthful right there, Washington…geez if all they asked on the entrance exam is to say that three times fast without screwing up – think I'd be switching majors – maybe go into Cult Appreciation and Proliferation or something…all kidding aside – what an interesting field. Will you work in educational services or some type of health care facility?... Oh - and belated happy birthday by a couple of weeks :) . Okay now...Washington - look at some of Bagpipes' posts - like post # 46 - man, there's a lot of stuff in there! I'm thinking speech, communication, self-awareness, describing emotions - maybe there's some tie-ins. Not meaning to put you on the spot - but if you feel so inspired maybe you could share on how you see any connections.

Yeah – you can count me in – batter up! I've never committed adultery, never raped anyone, never drugged and raped anyone, never sexually assaulted or molested anyone, never plagiarized, never showed porn videos as part of the Way Corps curriculum, never became an alcoholic - the only glasses he ever used to improve his in-depth spiritual perception and awareness were filled with Drambui… Let's look at the rest of the crap in your stupefied post. Yes…crap it is – from the very bowels of your father in the Turd. Here's how Darth Raper twisted your reference to John 8 - for his pervert/covert operation. VPW would use the force [Date-rape drug and his position of authority – double entendre fully intended] on his victims. If ever the victims accused him of such despicable acts – he would again employ the force [position of authority + label accuser demon-possessed]. It's one of the best Jedi-mind-tricks around! He didn't have to throw stones at any accusers – he simply got all his followers blinded by stupidity to do that for him! "Let he that is without my motor coach throw this crazy b1tc h off property!"

Potato, I’m a little fuzzy on this – and will have to review his book again but I think Covey stresses a genuine commerce of hearts only happens with genuine deposits of value – like love, respect, etc. If I deposit counterfeit money in your account – it’s really a bankrupt account! There’s nothing for me to draw upon. Now some of this is me elaborating on Covey’s ideas [or maybe it’s the Alzheimer’s talking :blink: ] – anyway…we’ve all come across shallow relationships – a commerce of hearts using counterfeit currency – flattery, faking sincerity or interest, giving to get, etc. I’m not a sociologist – but maybe there’s some type of fair-rate-of-exchange in relationships like in the business world. Person A is not really giving anything of value to person B. Person B – wanting to keep up appearances gives something back to person A in exchange for what they got – both swapping things of equal but essentially worthless value. …Maybe that’s some of why this self-awareness intrigues me. Thinking along the lines of Ex10’s post, I have this idea of me looking inward…getting a sense of who I really am…that is genuine…that has great value…that’s a great gift to share with someone else. WashingtonWeather – what is your Master’s in?

Now you all have my curiosity up! Really would love to see the fruits of everyone’s creativity. Especially Lindyhopper’s spine box…I think creativity can be so therapeutic…I wonder sometimes how the critical and creative thinking processes overlap or influence each other…I know sometimes I’m messing around on the bass, drawing, playing with Photoshop or working on one of my silly posts and I’m aware of another “program” that my brain is running in the background. Maybe it’s a project at work, some repair project at home or something I’ve read in a book – but my brain doodles around with this “problem” or tries to understand something better while I’m doing this other “artistic” thing. I find it weird and funny. One of those mysteries of being human – like how some people can chew gum and walk at the same time . …It’s sort of like a working vacation. Maybe it’s telling ourselves “Relax, kick back, you’re not at work now, you’re playing…It’s okay to think about that project if you want to…but have fun…no pressure…no rules…play around with it…” I think problem-solving draws on both critical and creative skills. Our critical/analytical side dissects the problem to identify the essential details of a problem – and our creative side plots a solution. We might figure out what it will take to fix the problem but lack some of those essential items we identified as necessary to fix it. That’s where we have to tap our creative side…I loved the part in Apollo 13 where one of the mission control guys puts on a table duplicate parts and supplies that are on board the Apollo 13. Then he points to an air filter that the astronauts don’t have but need and says “we have to figure out how they can make one of these out of this stuff they have on board.”