T-Bone

Instead of trying to build a better mousetrap, Walt decided to go in a different direction.

I wonder if some form of persecution complex is related to this topic...maybe as a way to justify why everyone says I am wrong. A simple definition of persecution complex: an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others. What Are Delusions of Persecution? (webmd.com) Persecutory delusion - Wikipedia Persecution Complex - The Persecutory Delusions - Lots to Read Strategies to Deal With Victim Mentality | Psychology Today Persecutory Delusions: Examples, Causes, Diagnosis, and Treatment (healthline.com)

sorry to hear about the tack a shame that's the end for the tack oh wait, there's hope - the tack survived and authored the Left Behind series fame went to its head - at an awards ceremony it said "nailed it"

Interesting points, Charity. Looking at that quote on TWI’s website again: First and foremost, we each enjoy the fellowship with our heavenly Father. Then in God’s household we enjoy the fellowship of one another as faithful followers of our Lord Jesus Christ who are eager to stand with resolve, ready to help one another, ready to pray with and for one another, and ready to prevail with power from on high. From: Fellowship - The Way International ~ ~ ~ ~ I agree they treat Jesus Christ like a second banana. Also, their statement hits me as if they are trying to subliminally radicalize for what I don’t know – “eager to stand with resolve”… “ready to prevail with power from on high” …to me it’s the same old hype…get followers psyched to fight windmills…they’re still blowing smoke up everyone’s a$$es, they don’t even have power to prevail over boredom…eager to stand with resolve = drink our Kool-Aid and stand with resolve on top of the rug – under which we swept all our past and present shenanigans. And good call on I John 1 - - check out the context - - we can claim we have fellowship with God & Jesus Christ but if we walk in darkness we lie and do not live the truth: 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete. 5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. I John 1 ~ ~ ~ ~ The Way International is still a mess because it’s built on a mess victor paul wierwille. According to Matthew 7 you can’t fix a bad tree - you get rid of it

Great song – lyrics, music and video !!! What really gets me is the herky-jerky part of the tune. Now this is weird – the phrase herky-jerky came to mind when I was wanting to describe the feel of the song – so, for grins I looked up herky-jerky and found this: herky-jerky the state of being isolated, kept apart, or withdrawn into solitude. You, too, will be zipping along to the angular guitars and zigzagging, herky-jerky vocals. It was superficial and jumpy and herky-jerky, bopping all over the place. Herky-Jerky watched me with extreme attention, all the time grinning. Herky-jerky | Definition of Herky-jerky at Dictionary.com https://www.dictionary.com/browse/herky-jerky WORDS RELATED TO HERKY-JERKY desultory, intermittent, periodic, spotty, broken, capricious, catchy, changeable, disturbed, erratic, flickering, fluctuating, haphazard, hit-or-miss, impulsive, inconstant, interrupted, on-again-off-again, random, recurrent. ~ ~ ~ ~ I thought what a great convergence of music and themes – cult tactics of isolation – hard stops solitary notes , starts and stops, jumpy…and all those other words related to herky-jerky ...what cult-leaders do to "whip us into shape" ...then I thought of me being the rubber band…and how some challenges and stresses can stretch us – but we’re resilient and bounce back…but a rubber band could get worn out or snap…so there's both sides of the rubber band metaphor – the cult tactic side, cult-leaders use this herky-jerky method to indoctrinate you. On the cult-survivor side, I can tap into resilience – but also accept that in some ways I am changed from the cult experience…I prefer the idea of a changed shape - rather than being worn out or snapped - I found this one article along those lines – it’s from a career coach but I think some points are applicable for cult-survivors…in that regard, I found when I got back into my career after leaving TWI, I had some catching up to do on what’s the latest tech. But as far as job performance goes and navigating office politics in some ways I felt like a ringer. From my in-residence experience I know what blows a manager’s mind is when they find someone who can work unsupervised - and get the job done, understand what priorities are and will toe the company line…anyway…here’s the article - maybe you'll find something applicable too: Understanding Resilience: The Rubber Band Analogy by Chrissy Scivicque | Jun 30, 2021 | I like the rubber band analogy, because it really makes a lot of sense, and it’s a great visual when we’re talking about something like resilience, which is actually a pretty abstract topic on the surface. So I have my nice little visual aid here…A rubber band stretches, right? That’s what they’re good for! They stretch. And when it stretches, it creates tension in that rubber band, and it puts pressure on that rubber. As human beings, we stretch as well. And when we stretch, it creates tension and pressure. When we are just comfortable, and we have no pressure and no tension on us, that’s fine. But that’s not where great things happen. It’s not where you actually have a meaningful experience in life. When we stretch, and we have that tension, and we have that pressure placed upon us, that’s when we’re actually growing as humans. Now a rubber band stretches, and that comes right back. It bounces back to its original shape. As human beings, we do this too, we are constantly stretching and bouncing back, stretching and bouncing back. This is part of the normal natural human experience. This is the essence of resilience. At times, you stretch your rubber band, and you stretch a really hard and really tight to get around something that’s a little bit too big for it, but it makes it! And you stretch it so far, and perhaps for so long, that when you finally take the rubber band off, it actually has changed shape. Have you experienced this? It’s changed shape. It’s kind of loosened up a little bit. That same thing happens with us as human beings. We can stretch so far and so hard that it actually changes our form, so that we actually become a different person on the other side of that stretch. So much tension and so much pressure has been placed upon us that when it finally releases, we realize, “Wow, I’ve changed.” And then of course, we’ve probably all also experienced a time when we have pulled and stretched that rubber band so hard that it’s actually snapped on us. (I’m not going to do it to save my delicate fingers!) But you’ve all experienced the snapped rubber band, because there’s so much tension and so much pressure. As human beings, that can happen to us. We have so much challenge placed upon us that we actually snap. And what I mean by that is that we have a breakdown of mental, physical, and emotional exhaustion. When we are talking about this concept of resilience, we really need to stay conscious of the fact that there are limitations to how far we can stretch without snapping. What we ultimately want to be able to do is to stretch and bounce back to our original form or stretch and (what I call) bounce forward into that changed form. From: Understanding Resilience: The Rubber Band Analogy - Eat Your Career

"Life is on the interface of the known and the unknown" - that's some tremendous insight right there, Bolshevik!

I hear you on that one! I got into walking/jogging 2 to 3 miles at least 4 times a week…I always wore good running shoes and put arch support inserts in them – have had bouts with plantar fasciitis…Then I did a dumb-a$$ thing – one morning didn’t want to get dressed – so I walked around our pool in my pjs and flip-flops for 45 minutes. Went inside – after about an hour it felt like I stepped on a nail in my right heel – and the nail was still in there. Had to go to a podiatrist again – got inserts that were stouter. That was October 2022. So, no long walks since then. I ride an exercise bike, do some stretches, and some light weights and core stuff...I love to walk and jog - so I'll probably get back into that routine eventually.

I knew someone with a crow habit

Froedrik did not like to be nickel-and-dimed by any church He did a one-time donation of himself in the horn of plenty The Twig’s treasurer, Gofundik is seen here hauling Froedrik to HQ

The way the article states it “ science has YET to answer” probably means so far science has not weighed in This is more in the disciplines of psychology and sociology

zzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ ZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Stayed Too Long, sometimes I have a love / hate relationship with your posts. let me explain...I love the challenge to my narrow-mindedness - cuz I know I need it – otherwise I’ll be a walking fossilized old coot – but I hate the actual discomfort of changing bad habits. These funky old shoes are sooooooooo comfortable Thanks for your input on this thread!

Biker Babe, I don’t know what to say. I get uncomfortable even just hearing about rape…I believe in a person’s right to defend themselves…isn’t it crazy what’s going on with mass shootings and stabbings? I go out to restaurants or shopping now and I usually try to be more aware of what’s going on around me. My wife had her thyroid removed last year. Getting old isn’t for sissies. We remind each other of the meds we have to take in morning and evening…weird about your doc changing meds regimen. My wife had a few run-ins with her doc a couple of years ago – and so she changed docs. Thanks for your input on this thread!

Mike said: An interesting phrase: “reaching no further” Spoken as if I enrolled for training or therapy here. LoL You don’t understand the timeline I am on. I went through the phases you folks are going through still, here, now. I attended a live, face-to-face version of GreaseSpot in July 1987 when Ralph D visited San Diego. I have reported on this often; maybe you never read it, because of YOUR confirmation bias toward “diagnosing” me. I first saw the Schoenheit Paper there, then. Went through great anguish and mental struggles. They lasted years. I worked it out. Somehow, don’t ask me how, I went through a lot of garbage and struggles related these things decades ahead of you folks. When I post these things they are glossed over and ignored. That’s ok. I’m used to it. You are scoring and rating me as if I came here for help, a deluded refugee. I will not play that game, nor submit to your cautions that I “need to make progress here, or seek help elsewhere.” LoL That is your confirmation bias speaking. T-Bone’s response: fine...choose your rut wisely – you may be stuck in it for a loooooong loooooooong time. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: Let me repeat a parts of my story you may have not processed. My “high regard for Wierwille” has been a roller coaster. I applied ALL SORTS of critical thinking towards that man over the decades. Some years I was more accepting of everything he taught, and other years I was far less accepting. It went way up and way down. Lots and lots of critical thinking. I was trained in science and math and have the skills. I also opine here often of the times and situations where turning off critical thinking is good for a number of things. That could be a whole thread in itself. */*/*/* Another part of my story is that in 1998 things changed for me for a number of reasons. At that time I was also watching my 50th birthday approaching. I had been searching all my life, and it was dawning on me that all that I have found and sorted through with my critical thinking skills, needed to be applied to life more. I had found SO MUCH, and I thought that the second half of my life, should I reach 100, should no longer be devoted to searching for the truth, for more truths, but to applying the truths God had blessed me in love to others in love. That’s the only valid reason to search for the truth: is to apply love to others in truth. Everything in my life pointed NOT to Wierwille, but to the collaterals, as the only solid thing I had found. So I ended my search. I closed my mind. I know that freaks a lot of people out, but everyone does it in fits of emotion. What I did is I closed my mind on very specific issues only, under very controlled and deliberate conditions, after many years of collecting and sorting various truths. I’ve been honest and up front about this here, that written PFAL is my only rule for faith and practice, and that it, of course includes the Bible. No matter how often or how specific I am about this limitation, written PFAL, everyone here will forget it and see in their minds me idolizing VPW, the man. I am constantly correcting people on this. How many times now have I corrected YOU on this, that my “high regard for Wierwille” is a fiction you hold in your mind constantly, no matter how many times I tell you, no, it’s wrong, it’s just written PFAL that is special to me. How many days will you go before you are posting again that I idolize VPW in some way? Let’s count. T-Bone’s response: In the beginning were the collaterals... ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: Actually, I am very much aware that my posts reflect that false impression to those who’s bias filters out critical information in my posts, as I described above. I have to constantly fight the false impressions and misrepresentations of my positions here. You folks are as unconsciously set in your ways, as I am consciously (since 1998) set in my ways. Fact and fiction often depend on the wording and the perspective and the bias filters. You are trying to sound authoritative in your recommendation, as if you have objectively diagnosed my problem for not taking up your anti-idol. T-Bone’s response: Is the following statement fact or fiction? God said to wierwille He would teach him the Word like it had not been known since the 1st century. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: Round two of your diagnosis. More like another swing and a miss in a boxing round. I am TOTALLY conscious of turning a blind eye to…. YOUR REPORTS of evil elsewhere and at other times. Get the emphasis? And when I say “your” I mean pretty much every active poster, in varying degrees. My blind eye is towards your whole perspective when you listen to a whistle blower’s account, a true victim’s account. My blind eye is towards your whole regurgitation of same, with your added embellishments, distortions, delusions, allusions, implications, bias, hate, etc. My blind eye is towards your every thought as to what do we do about the many unfortunate acts of the flesh that happened over many decades. My blind eye is towards your suggest actions and attitudes I should take in your solutions to the problems of more than 38 years ago. My blind eye is towards your anti-idle model of VPW as pure evil and no good. I refuse to fall down that devilish hole. Everyone has a heart that is desperately evil above all things. Every believe has holy spirit which cannot sin, and I chose to celebrate that, and magnify THAT about every believer, while you do the opposite. I will not succumb to the ill mind you have succumbed to. I turn a blind eye to your representations of these problems, but I do not turn a blind eye to the problems. My solutions are different than your solutions. My solutions do not include dumping the collaterals from my life. My solutions do include getting the Schoenheit paper aired by TWI-4. My solutions do include discussing possible strategies for writing an unvarnished history that would include the Schoenheit paper. I find it odd that the Schoenheit paper is not often discussed here. I have my hunches. T-Bone’s response: Geez Louise ! You have like six blind eyes?!?! Do you ever hear your window cleaning customers complain “hey, Mike – you missed a few spots – and look at those streaks there, there, there, there…” ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: I agree, but again at least 20 years ahead of that suggestion. VPW’s last magazine article has an amazing section I call a “Spiritual Makeover” that is all about self-examination of everything believed. I first ran across this urging for self-examination about 15 years late, in the year 2000. But I was an expert at already, from my RC childhood. I had really latched onto Confession every Saturday. I had my favorite priests, and considered them counsellors. I even went back and witnessed to my last confessor. Self-examination I did a couple times day sometimes, if not once a week. You could say I was very religious about self-examination. I still do it. T-Bone’s response: wierwille should have received the devil’s lifetime achievement award for the greatest false teacher cover-up ever …Accepting the award for the dead cult-leader is Mike. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: How COULD you ever be sure!? And WHO doesn’t have some kind of underlying issues? I have had and still do a VERY odd life. You can not even approach what I’ve been through and accomplished and failed at. No clue. There’s no way you could believe it all. I already strained credibility with my true stories of my many adventures. Maybe I should numb you out with a list someday? Maybe then you’d quit trying to figure me out and just listen a little. T-Bone’s response: Already figured you out – and news flash, I don’t listen to trolls. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: Yes, any reasonable person with the same perspectives and negative bias as yours, like almost all the active posters at this time, would think I am confused. HOWEVER, if unlike you, they were to carefully read my posts, and put things together with no ego influences (like always happen here on stage), then THOSE reasonable persons may find I am not so confused. T-Bone’s response: I’m not alarmed ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: There it is again: you mixing my only rule (collaterals) with all the teachings of weirwille. I was complaining about this above. It is so deep in your bias you probably cannot get this straight. T-Bone’s response: You keep moving the goal posts – such an obvious troll move. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: FALSE ! I am well aware of the need to ask all kinds of questions. If I saw someone doing that accepting “wierwille and PFAL without serious questions,” I would be alarmed as I was when I saw that very thing in the 1970s and 80s. YOU may have lived your early ministry life that way, but I did not. I asked OODLES of questions. People would laugh at me when I pulled out my latest list of questions. VPW didn’t laugh when he saw it at Rock’72. I was very suspicious and careful. If I see someone jump into PFAL fast with no questions I know they can jump out just as fast. I have seen this a lot being a twig leader twice. T-Bone’s response: I've seen things you wouldn't believe ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: I want to assume that rational response includes a very carefully selected set of initial assumptions and acceptable procedures. Most people do not consciously select what they love the most. It is mostly happenstance and emotions that guide major life attitudes. I am open and honest about our differences in fundamental assumptions. T-Bone’s response: Is that the best answer the Hive can come up with? ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: I make it a big deal to separate myself from anyone’s corruption that I see first-hand. I find your reports of those flaws in VPW totally untrustworthy. I said that before. I do not recognize your ability to sort through all this mess, let alone make a final judgment on VPW, and certainly not to suggest to me that I alter my work with the collaterals. I do seek solutions to the problems he left behind, even though I disagree with your embellishments of them. Even in their mitigated, realistic descriptions they are a problem that demands some kind of action. I tool action when these problems came up in my twig in 1980, and reported that our action as a twig was to bang out an amateur version of the Schoenheit Paper on Adultery, 6 years before he did his. I am WAY ahead of you guys on dealing with this. My methods and attitudes differ. T-Bone’s response: The dirty secrets…you can't hide them all ! ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: Once again you lump together what I carefully keep separate. I built my faith on that roller coaster I mentioned earlier all thru the 70s and 80s. I finally separated out the collaterals in 1998, after my faith had been built thru applying the PFAL keys to my Bible. I worked it out with God what to do. I simply committed to what I had learned and to helping others with it. T-Bone’s response: to wierwille be the glory…make collaterals great again ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: Yes, so choose wisely what is most precious by what takes up our most precious time and attention. Me: the collaterals. You? The anti-idol, pure evil guy you like thinking and typing about for lots and lots of your time? The First John Epistle ends urging us to guard against idols, which are time soakers that take us away from meditating on God and His Son via His written Word. T-Bone’s response: do you know what you need? you need a jump to concussions mat

Mike said: How about some page numbers for including collaterals in that list T-Bone’s response: I don’t waste time arguing with fools over bull-$hit. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: As I have explained often, my contempt is where the Corps went wrong, and that was mostly in the upper management. I can include VPW here. If he made a big mistake planning PFAL’77 to be the new class, he could make big mistakes with the Corps program. I didn’t have to be in the Corps to suffer under them a few times, and watch many others suffer under them often. AGAIN, the perpetrators were the vast minority, but a very vocal and influential minority. You were never president of a big religious company, so HOW DARE you criticize President VPW???? See how stupid that sounds? I saw error in the Corps, and I saw them promulgate it verbally. T-Bone’s response: where the corps went wrong was following a pseudo-Christian cult-leader like victor paul wierwille instead of following the Lord Jesus Christ! I was never a pseudo-Christian cult-leader but I feel I have every right to call out the false teachers, false prophets, and ravenous wolves…actually it’s my Jesus Christ given duty to do so per His directives in Matthew 7 ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: That is funny. One of the reasons I left HQ is because I actually experienced the verse “A prophet is not without honor…” in that in looking back on my life, my respect for VPW actually dipped when I was much closer to him at HQ, compared to 800 miles away in New York. Then when I left for California, my respect rose some. It had other roller coaster ups and downs as well, but I know that being at HQ, it seemed to be no big deal to be around him. I knew because of his time restraints, that when he was nearby, like at lunch, he was not really open to hanging out with me and discussing lots of things. I had that kind of time with him at Rock 1972, so my hunger to admire him was dimed by seeing him a lot at HQ. I saw him lose his temper there much more than anywhere else. That wasn’t fun, because I think some of those times he didn’t have all the facts, and was jumping to concussions. (had to bring it back on topic. ) You look like you really want to have all kinds of psychology theories and conspiracy theories about me. Let’s play a game. See what kind of theory you can come up with as to why my posting is always changing from one format to another. Maybe I am a committee and not an individual? WoW! I can’t wait to see how you spin that one. T-Bone’s response: Never underestimate a troll. Anyone who keeps trying to disrupt, dodge and derail is probably willing to do anything. You could be 30 or 40 different trolls using the same user ID and password – I don’t give a $hit…and shingles doesn’t care. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: Yup. I saw that often, and in the early 1970s. It alarmed me. One reason I did not go WoW or into the Corps. After 11 years I decided it would be good to go out Wow and it was a good decision. I learned tons. T-Bone’s response: There you go with your ‘retroactive cognitive skills’ again. You - - - all 30…40…50 of you trolls are so contradictory. You all say you’re so concerned about the truth and walking the talk – yet you defend wierwille’s legacy of twisted doctrines, lies, delusions, depravity, self-centeredness, Gnosticism, spiritualism, fundamentalism and callousness. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: -That is a good insight. The new ChatGPT software A.I. can do the same quality of parroting many did. It really got bad when parroted lines were used by Corps on the field, and they misapplied them, or the situation did not call for those lines. T-Bone’s response: what kind of trolling software do you use? Let’s see…did you say you left TWI in 1988? So, I’m guessing you’re using DOS 4.0.

I fixed the formatting glitch – you’re welcome Mike said: No. I am dealing with ideas and their originations. You may be searching your memory where the rotten attitudes towards sincerity and feelings originated, but I don’t think we can trust that. I am searching the collaterals. If the idea is right, it should be separated from error and respected, regardless of where it came recently. It is you who preoccupied with VPW. I’m looking at history right here. T-Bone’s response: whatever, Mike – which means I am unwilling to discuss the brand, make, model, color, shape, size and smell of your absurdity. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike: If I had no credibility here, no one would flock to try and make my posts more incredible, would they. They would figure I already did the job. Does that make sense? If my posts do not have credibility, you would not waste your time with them. T-Bone’s response: If you ask me, I think many Grease Spotters wish you’d get the flock outta here. I have more or less ignored you since October of 2022. Though you continue to ply the fine art of trolling - I couldn’t care less…shingles doesn’t care either! As I said before the main reason I quote your bull-$hit posts is to use them as talking points to ‘witness’ to those still in TWI. I kinda use the same strategy of ministers who proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ as the solution to the eternal hell that awaits unbelievers – I’m proclaiming the good news of Grease Spot Café – that one can be free of a harmful and controlling cult-mindset or they might end up like wierwille’s reused toilet paper – it's good for a gazillion wipes of a wholesome mind. ~ ~ ~ ~ Mike said: There are right times to have feelings, just like there are times when sincerity is right and proper, and even rightfully demanded. As you will see in the collateral texts, VPW taught that sincerity and feelings are good… in their proper places. The wrong times for feelings and sincerity is when you are trying to rightly divide the Word, or make a proper decision on the Word, and probably many mundane decisions as well. T-Bone’s response: more bull-$hit response from you! The collaterals are $hit. There is no criteria for what is right and proper in any of wierwille’s collaterals…your position is laughable…untenable! I ASKED YOU BEFORE, YOU STUBBORN THICK-HEADED JACK-A$$ - Where does it teach in the Bible that feelings and sincerity are NOT good for discerning truth?!?! I did NOT ask where does it teach in the collaterals that feelings and sincerity are NOT good for discerning truth?”

Before I went into the way corps program, I had something of a romanticized idea of what it was all about – an image comes to mind – me as an idealist of the counterculture 60s - peeking into the window of what appeared to be a tight-knit group…they hit me as kindred spirits who I imagined had a set of attitudes like my own – basically dissatisfied with the prevailing social norms… I guess from the outside a cult of personality can look like that. I’ve witnessed folks defend wierwille to the hilt – with the reasoning that we’re all human and make mistakes – and what they uphold is the truth contained in all his works…But that’s a huge misunderstanding – because it WAS the collaterals, PFAL, the programs WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps, etc., that taught us to ignore feelings...to suppress intuition...to disengage cognitive skills…to twist the meaning of Scripture…to accept logical fallacies…the reason wierwille’s body of work won’t stand up to close scrutiny is BECAUSE (drum roll please ) it ALL was derived from the malignant narcissistic-deluded-morally depraved-hypocritical-megalomaniacal-money worshipping mind of victor paul wierwille – a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leader extraordinaire ! (drum roll finishes with crash cymbals and the backup band does a big Tah-Dah ) The way corps appeared to be a tight-knit group is because they were! The intense indoctrination of the way corps program is one of the best kept secrets in TWI. In truth the way corps program was a clone factory. Maybe this was not the intention when the program was set up but it seems to me the whole thing wound up being a means of creating an idealized or somewhat worshipful idea of a leader – victor paul wierwille…in other words a cult of personality. ~ ~ ~ ~ We learned in the way corps to have complete confidence in everything wierwille wrote, said or did…I know in the Bible we are told to imitate the faith of godly leaders. But what if one fails to discern a counterfeit? I thought of passages like Matthew 7 and II Peter 2 . If there’s anything to verses like that, then it’s possible that false teachers can lead people astray. After leaving TWI, I’ve often wondered if there’s a point where fervent admiration for someone crosses the line. I would think of verses like Ezekiel 14:3 that talks of people setting up idols in their heart – if it’s in my heart, it’s invisible – no one else knows there’s an idol in my heart – perhaps even I wouldn’t realize it… I think a lot of people really believed in wierwille – and believed he could do no wrong. ~ ~ ~ ~ To be fair, even if a person is a godly leader, we can turn them into an idol when we cease to imitate their example of faith in God and instead make them the object of our faith. But looking back without the way-blinders on, it’s obvious to me now that wierwille wasn’t a godly leader – he lacked the moral uprightness and was lost in delusions of grandeur. For dedicated followers like the way corps, wierwille taught us to shun the status quo or conventional wisdom while at the same time making it clear that his authority was not to be challenged. Teachings on blind obedience were common in residence. Recalling my time in residence, it was extremely laser-focused on knowing The Power For Abundant Living class material backwards and forwards. I am NOT exaggerating! During the three meals we had each day in the dining room, we were randomly called upon to give a five-minute teaching - right there on the spot – and immediately critiqued right after that. Even back then I was disturbed by one fact (which at the time was another one of those things I relegated to the back burner) - that people who quoted PFAL material verbatim or with very little deviation from that, received the highest praise with little or no criticism... …In preparation for doing our research papers – which I suppose is one of the academic highlights of a college education – the current president L. Craig Martindale – (I can still remember him as he ) was pounding on the podium and bellowing out “Don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL”…looking back now – do you know what all that tells me? The aim of the way corps program was to create little clones of wierwille. ~ ~ ~ ~ If you were or are in the way corps, or presently you are going through the training program…maybe you’re thinking about going in the way corps…maybe you have sponsored or currently sponsor someone in the way corps program you ought to check out the book Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International on Grease Spot Café the author goes by the name Penworks. She also started a thread about her book - click here . She worked in the research department of TWI. There’s some very revealing stuff in there about the shady inner workings of The Way International, how the precarious mythology of wierwille – like the story of him hearing God’s voice – is an unreliable basis for a belief system and the intellectual and emotional frustration we all experience within the TWI-mindset. One of the big takeaways of the book - in my opinion - is how wierwille who was supposedly so concerned about “the integrity and accuracy of The Word” had no qualms about pressuring the research department to mistranslate a Greek word so it would ‘validate’ what he thought a passage should say…hmmmm… what about his dictum “ private interpretation of the Bible is not allowed “? I guess it’s okay for wierwille to do that. And while you're thinking about ordering Penworks’ book you could always do some light reading of another thread started by Penworks Evidence: Letters VPW wrote to the Way Corps Try to read these newsletters as if you didn't know who wierwille or TWI was. I wonder if you would be as shocked as I was when you remove the PFAL filter and see how narcissistic, manipulative, and mean-spirited he was and what a berating personality he had – evidenced by his own words to the way corps - his most devoted followers...Of course, if you're already disappointed way corps this stuff is not new to you - but if you're not - perhaps you're seeing wierwille in a different light for the first time. Sorry to put you through that - sometimes truth hurts. ~ ~ ~ ~ Leaving The Way International can be extremely difficult. There might be extenuating circumstances like familial and social bonds, living arrangements, staff/leadership responsibilities. I was involved for 12 years – and in that time I managed to cut a lot of ties with family and old friends who were not interested in what TWI had to offer – plus they were sick of me trying to push PFAL. I speak from personal experience – consequences of indoctrination lead to one becoming isolated…I didn’t hear from or talk to outsiders in a meaningful way…so, why did I leave TWI? There’s a lot of reasons – what comes to mind most often was a growing awareness that I was being manipulated…that I was not in the driver’s seat on my spiritual journey – others were – the upper leadership of TWI. I let them decide the direction to take. If you feel anything like that – and maybe you’re thinking about leaving – be forewarned – there will be intellectual and emotional challenges ahead. I liken it to swimming upstream. The simpler, safer, and comfortable route is to stick with TWI. Reflecting on the year of my exit (1986), it slowly dawned on me that thinking like an adult had been trained out of me. I had lost a lot of self-confidence. You’d think once a person is done with way corps training they’d be treated like responsible adults who have grown-up and moved out of Mom & Dad’s home – but – NOPE! It didn’t matter if you were 25-years old…35…45…55… you were expected to check with upper leadership before making any major decisions. Self-doubt is a byproduct of TWI’s constant bombardment of your “old man nature” (which in TWI-jargon usually refers to what you were like before you joined TWI ). They also use some other hi-tech ammunition like berating folks for going by their five senses or using worldly logic. They will pontificate over your lack of "mastering" the PFAL material or other classes. Perhaps one of their deadliest missiles is sowing the fear of disobeying God or the fear of being misled by unbelievers and devil spirits. TWI wages a continuous silent war on one’s personhood – and one of the major casualties of these attacks is a type of identity crisis. I would often question myself...I usually lacked confidence in my own thinking process…I found myself at times wondering who I really was and if I fit in… Self-awareness is a conscious knowledge of our own character, true feelings, motives and desires. However, this may be difficult to perceive through that translucent overlay of TWI’s social identity “bestowed” on followers. It’s like wearing frosted glasses and looking at your own reflection in the mirror…details are diffused …individual features are not clear. We are social creatures and have a natural desire to fit in. But all too often the social influence of a group like The Way International causes discomfort, pain, fear, sadness, frustration and even anger and resentment deep down inside. So, to survive in the group and to insulate our authentic self from further harm, we adapt somehow. We bury uncomfortable feelings and put on our ministry-face. Our adaptive self enables us to get along in a challenging social environment like TWI with some success and with the least amount of conflict with others – but often at the expense of our authentic self going into hibernation... In my opinion the longer one stays involved with TWI the more the authentic self gets buried under TWI’s values, goals, priorities, contrived interpersonal skills, beliefs, behaviors - all of which serves TWI more than one’s own best interest... The authentic self, and not some TWI’s homogenized version of you, thrives on self-awareness and self-acceptance…self-examination is perhaps a life-long process…from time to time we may have to take stock of our beliefs and behaviors - and then change what doesn’t serve our best interests. ~ ~ ~ ~ …The initial path to freedom may be a lonely one... That’s why websites like Grease Spot may be someone’s only lifeline…Wherever your first taste of freedom comes from – I can tell you this – it will feel like a breath of fresh air! And take heart – getting reconnected with the outside world is not such a daunting task. You’ll find that human beings are a lot more alike than they are different. You are free to reconnect with old friends and make new friends. I can't say enough good things about all the folks at Grease Spot and what a great place it is to think out loud. If anything of what I've said strikes a nerve with you maybe, it's time for you to get down to brass tacks and focus on the heart of the matter. The critical issue is NOT what I've said about The Way International – or what anyone on Grease Spot Café has said about it. The most important thing about any of this stuff is what do YOU think …what do YOU feel? Below I’ve left some more thought food. ~ ~ ~ ~ Check out these other books by former way corps: The Cult that Snapped: The Journey into the Way International by Karl Kahler | eBook | Barnes & Noble® (barnesandnoble.com) Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape: Skedgell, Kristen: 9780972002196: Amazon.com: Books See also Dangerous Cult Leaders | Psychology Today Spiritual Abuse Resources - Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective How to overcome Religious Abuse | RELIGION’S CELL (religionscell.com) Spiritual Abuse Resources - Mind Control - Psychological Reality or Mindless Rhetoric Groupthink Theory and Examples - Simply Psychology Groupthink | Psychology Today Spiritual Abuse Resources - Six Conditions for Thought Reform Spiritual Abuse Resources - Religion Versus Cult Spiritual Abuse Resources - Origins and Prevention of Abuse in Religious Groups Spiritual Abuse Resources - Characteristics Associated With Cultic Groups Spiritual Abuse Resources - A House of Mirrors How cult leaders entrap their followers — and their detractors | Karla McLaren THE ALLURE OF TOXIC LEADERS: WHY FOLLOWERS RARELY ESCAPE THEIR CLUTCHES - Ivey Business Journal 4 Personality Traits Cult Leaders Have In Common (culteducation.com) Why People Become Narcissists, Gaslighters and Cult Members | Psychology Today Authoritarian Parenting: Examples, Definition, Effects (verywellmind.com) Why Authoritarians Love Religion | Psychology Today that's all for now, folks

23 and Me I thought it was someone’s yearly journal… …evidently, it’s got something to do with DNA testing, ancestry breakdown, personalized health insights and such… ...Who knew?

Ah but it WAS the collaterals, PFAL, the programs WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps, etc., that taught us to ignore feelings...to suppress intuition...to disengage cognitive skills - - BECAUSE (drum roll please ) it ALL was derived from the malignant narcissistic-deluded-morally depraved-hypocritical-megalomaniacal-money worshipping mind of victor paul wierwille – a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leader extraordinaire ! (drum roll finishes with crash cymbals and the backup band does a big Tah-Dah ) Something that is always puzzling to me is the contempt that Mike exhibits toward the way corps. Mike was NEVER in the way corps so it always baffles me how he finds the audacity to speak so authoritatively about them. One theory I have suggests that Mike was envious of the intimate relation he imagined way corps had with their “father in the Word”, wierwille. Afterall the way corps program was wierwille’s creation. Did Mike have a resentful longing aroused by the way corps’ immediate access to “the man of God”? Did Mike have some kind of mental anguish - the pain of a bitter awareness that the way corps had the advantage of ‘learning at the feet of another apostle Paul for this day and time and hour’ ? The image of a street urchin peeking in the window of what appears to be a tight-knit family comes to mind. I guess from the outside a cult of personality can look like that. In truth the way corps program was a clone factory. Maybe this was not the intention when the program was set up but it seems to me the whole thing wound up being a means of creating an idealized or somewhat worshipful idea of a leader – victor paul wierwille…in other words a cult of personality. ~ ~ ~ ~ We learned in the way corps to have complete confidence in everything wierwille wrote, said or did…I know in the Bible we are told to imitate the faith of godly leaders. But what if one fails to discern a counterfeit? I thought of passages like Matthew 7 and II Peter 2 . If there’s anything to verses like that, then it’s possible that false teachers can lead people astray. After leaving TWI, I’ve often wondered if there’s a point where fervent admiration for someone crosses the line. I would think of verses like Ezekiel 14:3 that talks of people setting up idols in their heart – if it’s in my heart, it’s invisible – no one else knows there’s an idol in my heart – perhaps even I wouldn’t realize it… I think a lot of people really believed in wierwille – and believed he could do no wrong… To be fair, even if a person is a godly leader, we can turn them into an idol when we cease to imitate their example of faith in God and instead make them the object of our faith. But looking back without the way-blinders on, it’s obvious to me now that wierwille wasn’t a godly leader – he lacked the moral uprightness and was lost in delusions of grandeur. For dedicated followers like the way corps, wierwille taught us to shun the status quo or conventional wisdom while at the same time making it clear that his authority was not to be challenged. Teachings on blind obedience were common in residence. ~ ~ ~ ~ Recalling my time in residence, it was extremely laser-focused on knowing The Power For Abundant Living class material backwards and forwards. I am NOT exaggerating! During the three meals we had each day in the dining room, we were randomly called upon to give a five-minute teaching - right there on the spot – and immediately critiqued right after that. Even back then I was disturbed by one fact (which at the time was another one of those things I relegated to the back burner) - that people who quoted PFAL material verbatim or with very little deviation from that, received the highest praise with little or no criticism... In preparation for doing our research papers – which I suppose is one of the academic highlights of a college education – the current president L. Craig Martindale – (I can still remember him as he ) was pounding on the podium and bellowing out “Don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL”…looking back now – do you know what all that tells me? The aim of the way corps program was to create little clones of wierwille. ~ ~ ~ ~ If you were or are in the way corps, or presently you are going through the training program…or even if you’re thinking about going in the way corps or you have sponsored or currently sponsor someone in the way corps program you ought to check out the book Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International on Grease Spot Café the author goes by the name Penworks. She also started a thread about her book - click here . She worked in the research department of TWI. There’s some very revealing stuff in there about the shady inner workings of The Way International, how the precarious mythology of wierwille – like the story of him hearing God’s voice – is an unreliable basis for a belief system and the intellectual and emotional frustration we all experience within the TWI-mindset. One of the big takeaways of the book - in my opinion - is how wierwille who was supposedly so concerned about “the integrity and accuracy of The Word” had no qualms about pressuring the research department to mistranslate a Greek word so it would ‘validate’ what he thought a passage should say…hmmmm… what about his dictum “ private interpretation of the Bible is not allowed “? I guess it’s okay for wierwille to do that. And while you're thinking about ordering Penworks’ book you could always do some light reading of another thread started by Penworks Evidence: Letters VPW wrote to the Way Corps Try to read these newsletters as if you didn't know who wierwille or TWI was. I wonder if you would be as shocked as I was when you remove the PFAL filter and see how narcissistic, manipulative, and mean-spirited he was and what a berating personality he had – evidenced by his own words to the way corps - his most devoted followers...Of course, if you're already disappointed way corps this stuff is not new to you - but if you're not - perhaps you're seeing wierwille in a different light for the first time. Sorry to put you through that - sometimes truth hurts. …anyway…what was I going to say? Oh yeah Mike, you didn’t miss much. See also Dangerous Cult Leaders | Psychology Today that's all for now, folks

Other than wierwille or you who say “…Feelings and sincerity are NOT good for discerning truth” are there any normal people who believe that? Where does it teach that in the Bible? I imagine if one’s conscience was seared with a hot iron - as wierwille’s apparently was to consistently commit unconscionable acts - he probably wasn’t able to discern truth even when it hit him over the head with a 2 by 4! These kind of statements you make lead me to believe you are incapable of discerning truth from lies and fact from fiction. Who are you - really?!?! You defend your father in the word salad of lies and delusions. Are you originally from the real world? I guess it never occurred to you that you have no credibility here. Maybe having the sensitivity of a brick wall impaired your discernment- just a wild guess anyway. Feelings are part of the whole person! Feelings determine how we respond to truth. II Corinthians 7:10 says godly sorrow leads one to repentance…oh my gosh! Gone full circle here - back to 2nd paragraph - apparently wierwille never felt godly sorrow because he never repented of his unconscionable acts. If he had he would have brought forth fruit of repentance - that John the Baptist talked about in Matthew 3:8 - fruit that God and EVERYBODY would see!!!!

Hey All, I was reviewing one of my favorite commentaries - Revelation (Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament): Osborne, Grant R.: 9780801022999: Amazon.com: Books and wanted to mention a few things the author said in the introduction: Revelation is a symbolic book, but that does not mean the symbols do not depict literal events. It is likely that God has chosen esoteric symbols from the common store of apocalyptic symbols in the 1st century in order to turn the reader away from exactly what he is going to do and toward the theological meaning of how he is going to do it. We do not know what is going to happen behind the pictures of locust plagues, meteor showers, volcanic eruptions, and horrible storms. Some may happen literally, many will not…One of my takeaways from what Osborne is saying here is that in general we might not be able to ‘decode’ the exact means of how God is going to make something happen – but we should recognize that God is sovereign – He is orchestrating the show. ~ ~ ~ ~ Grant Osborne mentions another theologian, G.K. Beale who spoke of the 4 levels of communication: The linguistic level, comprising the exegetical study of the text. The visionary level, considering John’s experience. The referential level, centering each symbol in its historical referent. The symbolic level, asking what is connotated by each symbol. ~ ~ ~ ~ Symbols are metaphorical utterances that are meant to be understood first pictorially and then referentially. There is a referential dimension to metaphor, but we find the meaning through the picture that is connoted. The sources for interpreting them come from the Old Testament, intertestamental literature, and the Greco-Roman world – in other words, in the common world of the original readers in the province of Asia…In other words, digging deeper into the book is going to take getting more familiar with the cultural background of the Bible. Here’s a handy study Bible > NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible, Hardcover: Craig Keener, John Walton: 9780310431589 - Christianbook.com

Exactly! What is the gap between the physical and metaphysical? Is there a bridge to span the gap? Is the gap – the separation of matter, the physical realm from the spiritual realm, something that can be measured? Is there another way or ways to quantify the two realms to explain the disparity between the two? Could absence also mean being undetectable in the physical realm? Can a divine being be both transcendent and immanent at the same time? And now for the self-referential portion of my post - mwah ha ha ha ha ha ha 1. T-Boneto 2 T-Boneto 3 T-Boneto 4 T-Boneto 5 T-Boneto 6 T-Boneto

Where the hell were you 67 pages ago? just kidding - great post, Raf!

Ode to Galactic Gumby Somewhere in the ludicrous quadrant of what could only be described as a fourth of the tacky universe, Gumby of the Claymation Civilization wrote a simple song: I knew a feral pony by the name of Hokey Pokey But an interplanetary plagiarist turned the song around. Hokey Pokey became Mustang Sally in Star Date 1965 On terror-firma when hummus beans were afraid of gigundous cars.

Cool – here’s a few hyperlinks to explain the 4 views – some of these are good at giving the pros and cons of each view…personally I think there’s a benefit to keeping all 4 views in mind when studying the book. It’s possible that’s the way God intended readers to consider certain passages – using our cognitive skills along with the ever intuitive Holy Spirit - and boom-shaka-laka we get blessed know what’s one of the great things about reading the book of Revelation – or for that matter any book in the Bible? You have the freedom to think and choose a response. When it comes to the matters of our faith – we answer to no one but our Lord Jesus Christ...anyway here's a few links: 4 Interpretations Concerning the Book of Revelation - Bellator Christi The Four Views of Revelation (tmumc.org) 4 Views of Revelation - Steve Gregg · Christianity Without the Religion/Plain Truth Ministries (ptm.org) Four Views of Revelation (probe.org)