T-Bone

Holy crap, people! You've got me believing this stuff!...I'm overwhelmed. I've gotta get organized. I'm gonna need Blue Forms…lots of Blue Forms…Temple Lady get me Blue Forms – stat! Listener – you're driving my bus. Another Spot…you need to get me a bus. NY Unknown - pending approval of your 2727-TWTBTBF form you'll be in charge of the Bathroom on the bus.

Why are there different words for heart, soul and mind in Matthew 22:37? I never spoke of soul and spirit as being the same thing – but different aspects of the same being. In I Corinthians 2:14 you are inserting words that are not justified by the Greek Text. “The natural man receives not…” “receives” is dechomai – in the Greek Text – basic meaning “welcomes”. And “discerned” in the Greek Text is anakrino – and means examined or judged [a few of the 16 occurrences are: Luke 23:14; Acts 4:9; and most notably Acts 17:11…searched the Scriptures daily”]. The verse as well as the whole context is talking about the unsaved do not welcome the wisdom of God concerning salvation – but God has revealed these things to us – and it is by Scripture and the Holy Spirit’s illumination of Scripture we are able to discern. I don’t see how you’re justified in saying receives = understands and discerned = understood. No where in this chapter does it talk about the spirit bypassing the mind. Seriously – how are you going to show me that speaking in tongues bypasses the mind? Will you be using an S-Ray Machine [spirit-Ray Machine] [bet you thought that was Ricky Ricardo asking for an X-Ray Machine] – that will render the spiritual world visible? And frankly, I begin doubting someone when they start re-defining words in the Bible – just to suit their theology. You’ve already lost credibility in my book by not providing scriptural documentation for this idea of the spirit bypassing the mind.

Kunta Kinte, I’ve found you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listener, you are definitely out of your Gourd and obviously a kindred spirit – I love it, love it, love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't mean to give you a hard time on this - just would like to ask - chapter and verse please? This is the doctrinal forum.

That is an intriguing thought, JumpinJive. I think your post is quite apt for this thread. In my opinion, who God and Jesus Christ are, is a core element in this bundled package of faith. I am purposely alluding to an operating system – which is how I see my belief system. For my operating system – I chose the Christian faith. I said "Christian faith" rather than "the Bible" to mean my belief system goes beyond mental activity with a book – which cannot respond to my input. I view the Bible like interactive software – helping me connect to God, people, life. Unpacking this "bundled faith" is therefore much more than an intellectual pursuit of Scripture. Jesus' comment in Matthew 22:40 implies that God designed Scripture to be experienced based on one's interactive relationship with God and neighbor. I get the idea from this and other comments by Him that one of the most important things…essential things…basic things of the Christian life is relationships based on a love-dynamic. And I will up the ante on this thread by saying I believe that is MORE IMPORTANT than having the "correct doctrine" on the identity of Jesus Christ and God! If someone says "Oh you're wrong – doctrine shapes practice." To which I agree – but what is the practical consequence of me haggling over what He meant when He said, he who has seen ME has seen the Father [John 14:9]?...But now let's look at a couple of His other statements: why do you call Me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? [Luke 6:46]...by this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another [John 15:35]. Neither statement offers a clue on Jesus' identity – but the practical implications are enormous. The basics of my faith do NOT include a thorough understanding of God or Jesus Christ – however the integrity of my relationship to them and my fellowman under girds EVERY aspect of my faith. And I think Word Wolf expressed the "tension" I feel in a lot of my personal studies. I believe God has placed the essential information in plain view in order to satisfy the needs of my soul. But there are many topics that I look into – that are fun to explore…elusive…inexhaustible…and even though they do not satisfy my curiosity – they excite me in just the thrill of the hunt!

And he closed the book and sat down. Then opening his mouth in the direction of Nude Knoxville he said, “Today, this prayer is fulfilled in your ears of corn.” Great prayer, Roy!

Thinking about the way that everyone has been carrying on here…I think that comes naturally to folks at GSC...the freedom to think, express yourself and have fun…I really do love this place…great bunch of folks…God bless you, Roy.

I like that – need to start a Cultmas thread – but wait until Ho Ho season of course. …And to all you fate-blasters out there, you’re not gonna have T-Bone to kick around anymore – oops scratch that – wrong speech…You need to look at the rumors behind the gossip behind the truth about cats and dogs behind door number 2.

Journal entry April 28, 2007: These new recruits are starting to scare me…I perceive an inkling of a rumor dipped in subterfuge…Are they after my ministry?...Should I up the requirements of my 2727-TWTBTBF form?...They appear to be going along with everything I say – but both Listener and Another Spot exhibit signs of…dare I say it? Real thinking – maybe even initiative and creativity…Or is that how Redundant Thinking comes out if you play it backwards…[note to self: play Strawberry Fields Forever backwards, listen for the “I buried Paul” part …addendum to note to self: figure out how to play my Beatles CD backwards]

You claim what you're saying is different from the Great Principle – but your assumptions are the same thing only worded a little differently…You really need to read Word Wolf's post # 17 on the Great Principle thread [see the link I provided in previous post]. You have the same contradictory assumptions that VPW did – that the spirit bypasses the mind yet works through it. He asserted God is spirit and can only communicate to what He is which is spirit – the premise of the great principle is based on contradictory ideas – God can only talk to spirit but your spirit can talk to your mind. What's wrong with God's Spirit? Can't He speak for Himself? Why does He need a middleman? There's something wrong with this picture... If I remember it right the Great Principle states that God's Spirit teaches His creation in you which is now your spirit, and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act…Now you're claiming the spirit bypasses your mind – yet if you perform ANY function of physical activity – like speaking words in a "tongue" or praying over someone, laying on of hands, etc., you are engaging the parts of your brain that govern muscle motor skills, neural networks providing feedback to the brain for correct lips and tongue configurations, hand/eye coordination for proper placement of hands during ministering, sensitivity to amount of pressure applied to the person when laying on hands…that's just a few of the intricate processes that happen at breakneck speed…So how is the brain bypassed in all that? Are you possessed when you – I mean – the spirit does these things?

That is what VPW taught. Typical reasoning in lot of his doctrine was based on grand assumptions – like this one – he labeled it "the Great Principle." There are no scriptural references that document this process. You may want to read the threads below where the Great Principle, walking by the Spirit and revelation are discussed: Word Wolf’s post # 17 on The Great Principle thread http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=308024 Decision-making and the will of God thread http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=310314 You've expressed a wonderful sentiment in post # 25 – looking past doctrinal differences to the bigger things like love - I'm for that! And I was reminded of the turmoil I went through after leaving TWI…What you're experiencing at GSC is one of the biggest reasons I come here – the power of other viewpoints. Many of us here bought into the whole package of TWI beliefs – starting off with a big one – "you can't go beyond what you're taught." TWI instills in followers a fear of the unknown and fosters a debilitating thinking process that erodes self-confidence: Everything you need to know about God and life are explained in their doctrines – and considering other doctrines or viewpoints is not safe – you're asking for trouble – your faith is gonna shipwreck! GSC is a wonderful place to explore your own faith and the beliefs of others. I think if one is secure in their core of beliefs and respects the viewpoints of others - there is a great opportunity for everyone to be affected in a positive way.

Gosh…Another Spot, NY Unknown, Listener…..I am awash in the magnanimous ineffable greatness of my own charisma extrapolated to the nth degree …You wonder what you should say to your people at a time like this. I'm gonna go with "keep those 2727-TWTBTBF forms coming in, folks!" May the Farce be with you. …Oh and another thing, Another Spot – your previous experience and limited stature is definitely a plus…or minus however you want to look at it. I do have some mixed feelings over the prose of your post. While the heart behind your post tells me you've got TWTBTBF potential, the actual wording has me a little concerned – there's lots of big words in it [no diagrams, charts or pictures – your avatar doesn't count] you may actually be overqualified for the role of friendship. You must have finished high school – or what's the thing above that – did you do that too? Love your zeal – now if we can work on getting that IQ down to where it needs to be – then we can talk...or something...I dunno speak in gibberish... I am hopeful and do think if the Intelligence Adjustment Program is conducted in the true spirit of things [Drambui] you'll work out just fine. Ya'll are too funny and gonna wear me out as my own silliness consumes me from within…ahhh…isn't freedom great! For this purpose - was I scared! But not anymore. Thanks all!!!!!!!!!!

Bolshevik - people with this "permanent wedgie" are born again of the wrong seat. Temple Lady - thanks sister for always being there when I need yah! Hammeroni – thanks for your input – great post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow – thank you Listener, for keeping me posted…and upon receipt of your documentation I’ll no longer be able to say, “When it comes to form # 2727-TWTBTBF – I have no friends.”…Oh and I go into much more detail about Bad Unseen Terrestrial Things in the Advanced Class on Power For Redundant Thinking. Most people don’t believe in such things since they don’t see them. Simply by using the keys to the interpretation of the Bible, like scripture screw-up I will show you how these invisible items traffic back and forth into our realm – through a portal that I call the Bu++ Hole. The session gets pretty intense – I’m usually wiped out afterwards.

Anyone wishing to be my friend must fill out a fifty page application [form # 2727-TWTBTBF – ask Temple Lady for a copy – if you can’t remember the form number just ask for the Those Wanting To Be T-Bone’s Friend form], answering all questions without questioning why, attaching documentation from reputable clinics that verify your height and IQ. Determination of friends is solely on the basis of being shorter than me, having an IQ lower than mine, and having answered all questions to my satisfaction [a sample of 3 of the questions is given in my first post]. …And Listener, while I do wish to commend you for being so prompt in submitting form # 2727-TWTBTBF and correctly answered every question [your post # 4 is most exemplary!] – Your application is still pending in regards to your height and IQ. You’re much taller than I expected and possess an average intelligence level. Hopefully, these items are negotiable. Would you be willing to submit to surgery [typically a few inches off the ol’ thigh bones does the trick] and participate in my Intelligence Adjustment Program? The program is nothing to be afraid of – no prescription or illegal drugs. Just imbibing Drambui in the amount and pace of my specifications.

Welcome to GSC, Mrs. Bolshevik! I’m with you on the benevolent nature of God – and am proud to say I’ve shed the straitjacket that TWI put on my faith. I no longer pursue a career in telling God what to do, how to do it and when to do it. If He wants to turn lemons into lemonade, limeade, first aid, or Gatorade – that’s His prerogative. My emergency-prayers usually go something like this: “Lord, I’d really appreciate some help here. I trust your providence and benevolence – grant me the wisdom, courage and strength to choose the best course of action…and anything else you want to do behind the scenes is okay by me.”

That’s a big “Yup” from me too, Listener! This is an open forum, NY Unknown! Nobody is pushing an agenda here. Say whatever you want – hopefully, it will have something to do with the topic . You can agree/disagree, throw in your own viewpoint, say my point is a bunch of bs [note however when dealing with me you must submit a fifty page manuscript with lots of big words, diagrams, charts and pictures. I figure that’ll take you awhile and buy me some more time…besides my reading comprehension ain’t too good…I’ll get a lot more out of your diagrams, charts and pictures. ]. …I’m relatively new to GSC and an open forum website setting – but have found the experience more productive when people go with the flow of the topic and respect everyone’s input. Even when it gets heated – if opposing parties attack the point and not the person – everyone can still get something out of it. Sometimes a person’s post gets me to re-assess something in my belief system. It has an effect – it may cause me to alter it, solidify it, suspend it, explore it, etc.

Maybe it's a matter of looking at the problem with a faulty assumption. What died in the Garden of Eden? Or more specifically – what is death? We know TWI's idea of it. However, what I've read in some systematic theologies fits better with studies of the nature of man and the eternal state. It is that death is a separation or change of state. Physical death is separation of the life-force from the body, spiritual death is separation of man from God in this life, eternal death [the "second death"] is separation of man from God for all eternity. …Perhaps in this "transition" aspects of a being are affected/changed. Maybe what we could say was "lost" was man's connection to God. What has somehow changed is the relationship. The image of God is still there – but now tarnished…distorted…fallen or something like that. I know I was being a little silly in post # 18 about man being a fivefold being – but where I'm going with this is - whether you view man as a twofold, threefold, fivefold being – I don't really think that's a critical issue. In my opinion – body, soul, spirit, mind, heart, etc. are all aspects of ONE being – and were not meant to be separated in the original design. That is why Christians who are living at the time of the Rapture will experience a bodily change – and further down in the timeline, I think we can assume some type of body is given to everyone – no matter which resurrection they're a part of – otherwise WHAT is being resurrected? My point is that I believe people were designed as unified beings – which includes having a body. The soul…spirit…life-force…"that which makes you, you"…was meant to be joined to a body – whether experiencing life on earth…or the eternal state.

I get the idea from Genesis and James that ALL people are made in the image of God: Genesis 9: 5-7 NASB 5"Surely I will require (D)your lifeblood; (E)from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man. 6"(F)Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For (G)in the image of God He made man. 7"As for you, (H)be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." James 3: 8, 9 NASB 8But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of (M)deadly poison. 9With it we bless (N)our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, (O)who have been made in the likeness of God; I get a little confused over discussions of body, soul and spirit – I don't buy the way VPW would dissect everything with a "mathematical exactness and scientific precision." We'll have to include the extra parts Jesus mentioned in Matthew – heart and mind – man goes from being a threefold being to a fivefold being [and could sing with The Fifth Dimension – darn, I should have posted this in the Music Lovers thread]: Matthew 22: 35-37 NASB 35One of them, [a](AB)a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And He said to him, " '(AC)YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment.

Listener – take your time…this stuff is nothing new for GSC – sometimes it's like a never-ending CSI episode – people going over details of the crime scene again and again – more of the puzzle comes together…we all have something to contribute here…and personally I don't tire reviewing the doctrinal/practical aspects of TWI – it does a brain good! Sometimes it's reading someone's post – a detail will stand out and I think, "Wow – I saw that too" or "I felt the same way." It's healing…sanity affirming…Or sometimes it's the dynamic process of drafting a post – my internal editor is like an excited coach on the sidelines cheering me on, "Yes, yes, yes!!! That's how you got tricked!...Stay on point!...No – don't get into that yet – sort it out a little more first…See how that fits with what the other person said three posts back." Understanding…clarification…realization…great therapy! Waysider – thanks brother! Son of the Master – yup, simple answers rate high in my book too! Your comment made me think of Jesus' words in John 13:34 – a new commandment I give you – that you love one another as I have loved you. He did say that the law and the prophets [the entire body of Scripture that existed in His day] hang on love. Bolshevik – thanks for mentioning the Golden Rule. Is it just me – or does it seem like TWI has such a complex/contradictory/convoluted doctrinal system compared to Jesus' simple theology of love? Maybe that's how people get tricked into breaking the commandments. TWI's complicated theology throws up such a smokescreen to the conscience. So it no longer feels like you're crashing through a barricade - it's just a little detour - walking around the NO Trespassing sign...And to respond to your challenge in post # 7 – I present the following steps to how any of my "interpolations" happen [in the format of my first post]: 1. Shift reference point from the man-a-god persona to what he was really like "back stage." 2. Sever the connection to Way-brain – acknowledge what your eyes and conscience tell you. 3. Re-define his character according to the picture you acquired in step 2.

That's cool stuff - thanks for posting it, MarkO!

Ho man! Thanks, D Miller – for the Bad Livers tune! Lathe Crick is the second tune on their CD – I’ve got it and love every track!...Look what you’ve done - now I’m feenin’ for reruns of The Beverly Hillbillies…”Golly Uncle Jed, I’m gonna be a rock star…don’t tell Granny I’ve been using her sewing machine for an effects pedal…or that I’ve managed to sew the steel guitar into my clothes.”

Welcome to GSC, Preacher! Your post certainly does your name justice. I don't want to spoil your initial experience with GSC – but since you come on so strong I would like to give you some honest feedback. I no longer consider VPW my father in the Word – personally I don't think you can get farther from the Word than the screwy theology he twisted out of it…In my opinion, more than any doctrinal error - what really must break God's heart is anytime Vicious Predatory Wolves attack what the Father and Son hold near and dear - molesting His daughters! "…Something must be wrong with our scale of values…" I'm not one to whine over how VPW got his information. The fact that he was a bold-faced plagiarist is a whole other subject! The way he pieced together his eclectic theology should be a prime concern to any serious Bible student. His clumsy misuse of Scripture interpretation principles should have been a tip off – not only showing all this stuff didn't originate with him – but more importantly that he did not "master" them. Although he did "make it his own" by claiming God taught him the Word like it hadn't been known for centuries. Case in point: In PFAL, before VPW teaches the keys to the Word's interpretation, he sets the stage by referring to II Peter 1:20, 21 KJV 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. VPW said verse 20 means no one is allowed to privately interpret the Bible and from that reasons there is no interpretation or the Bible must interpret itself – hence the need for the keys to the Word's interpretation. Even if the reader would miss a little preposition like the "of" in the verse "of any private interpretation" [which indicates origin or source] it becomes obvious if you follow the line of thought in verse 21 – where it describes the origin of Scripture two other ways – not coming by the will of man, holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. So even before "the teacher" begins to show students the keys to the Word's interpretation – he himself ignores the information 1. in the verse and 2. in the context. May I suggest you lay aside TWI-mindset for a few months – and just read the Bible. Perhaps one without TWI notes, maybe even try a few other versions besides KJV.

NY Unknown and Listener – I’m assuming you both realize I was playing along with Listener’s humorous response to my questions. I don’t think Listener is a TWIt and certainly didn’t mean to insinuate that. My apologies to Listener or anyone else that may have misunderstood my remark.

As far as drawing any comparisons between Cyrus and VPW – you can’t – it’s like comparing apples to oranges. God did not set up Cyrus as a teacher of the Bible or minister of God – but as a political instrument that displayed God’s sovereignty – even over non-believers! And the only reason we know that God was behind the scenes orchestrating things is because it says so in the Bible [isaiah 44 and 45]. To determine if someone is a legitimate teacher of the Bible or minister of God – wouldn’t it make sense to apply biblical standards in the assessment? Jesus warned us about false prophets by saying to look at their fruit [Matthew 7:15-20] – the result of their labor. Paul says we’re to look at the content of their teachings . Peter not only calls attention to their doctrine but also their behavior as well [iI Peter 2]. What is the fruit of VPW’s labor? A life-dominating, life-sucking, life-ruining organization known as TWI. What is the content of his teachings? Well, we could argue all day over what the Bible says on any given subject – but I’ll be honest with you as far as my personal Bible study as a Christian goes – most of what VPW taught I chucked out the window a long time ago. What about VPW’s behavior? Anyone that’s been around him when he wasn’t playing to the general TWI audience can definitely clue you in on just how hypocritical, mean and lewd he could be!