T-Bone

Great posts, Another Spot! Especially your point in post # 2. VPW had a knack for re-defining Greek words his way – heck, he even did that with the English language! And he'd always come across with such confidence, boldness and authority...But I think having intellectual humility is a good thing. One thing I can say with full confidence – I am an expert on how dumb I can be at times . Your posts got me to look at the whole context of the rightly dividing passage: II Timothy 2:14-26 NKJV 14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity." 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. You're right – Paul is addressing a church leader – not all the believers. R.C.H. Lenski mentions the twofold audience of a preacher – people and God - in his Commentary on the New Testament: The Interpretation of St. Paul's Epistles to the Colossians, to the Thessalonians , to Timothy, to Titus, and to Philemon, page 798: "…When we present ourselves to men ["those hearing us," v.14] as preachers of the Word we must ever be conscious of the fact that we are also presenting ourselves to God in everything we say or do [doctrine and practice] in regard to his Word. How this ought to drive out even loose carelessness, to say nothing about arrogant opinions, following human authorities, popular errors and practices…" End of excerpt The context of II Timothy 2 dwells on the importance of behavior and character of the leader rather than on any scholarship or teaching skills. Biblical preaching and teaching is a lot more than the dissemination of information. That which the preacher actually practices is the understructure of their sermons – where it can reinforce or nullify any verbal communication - or even subliminally suggest a skewed interpretation. Those whose behavior was contradictory, Jesus referred to as hypocrites. The real ideas quietly conveyed to the audience are what is modeled in the teacher's life away from the pulpit. Jesus talked about the importance of what you DO and TEACH: Matthew 5:19, 20 NKJV 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't matter how eloquently a sermon is delivered – actions still speak louder than words. There's more to it than just the explanation of the text. What has the most impact or influence is the way people live, the power of modeling the truth, being an example [see I Kings 11:3, 4; 15: 25, 26; 22:52; II Chronicles 22:3-5; Proverbs 3:6; 7:25; 16:7; 22:24, 25; 23:26; Matthew 5:13-16; I Corinthians 4:16, 17; 11:1; Philippians 3:17, 18; I Thessalonians 1:7, 8; I Timothy 4:11-16; II Timothy 3:10-17; I Peter 5:3; II Peter 2:2, 11, 12]. The lure of TWI was its appeal to our ego. "We have the keys to the Word's interpretation and can't go wrong. We're the only group rightly dividing the Word." Once they have folks hooked with this arrogant attitude, their erroneous doctrines and practices eat away at the spiritual life like a cancer.

Many who think they’re on a roll have been snared by the “brilliance” of hum drum nonsense…Maybe your God and my God could get together sometime and do lunch.

Yes, it does seem like your goal has been to fulfill that prophesy.

If it’s going to be anything like your other epistles – you ought to just stick to quoting the epistles in the Bible – at least that part of your posts would make sense…With all your talk of the “law of liberty” the theology exhibited in your posts seems quite oppressive, judgmental, restrictive, rigid, demanding, arrogant, and of all things legalistic! You can call it what you want but I gotta disagree with your re-defining of “liberty.”

There is something in what you say there. Personally, I learned a valuable lesson after leaving TWI – never let anyone dictate the building blocks of my belief system. Whether it's checking out the Bible or science – I think it's all a matter of how you interpret the information in front of you. While in TWI I used to believe in a young earth – being created in a literal 6 days as taught in PFAL. This is based on an assumption the Bible is an all-in-one textbook that covers everything - even science. It seems to me though – the apparent topics of the book [God, Christ, sin, salvation, love, etc.] fall into a religious [or spiritual] category. While there is grammatical evidence that suggest longer time periods in Genesis 1 – I believe in a much older earth and universe based on the evidence interpreted by geologists, archeologists, physicists, and astronomers. I believe the Bible and the universe are both the work of God. That is an assumption I hold -and don't see science as a challenge to the authority I let Scripture have over my soul. I also think it is a lot easier interpreting scientific data than biblical data. Many times it's not very clear whether the passage is to be interpreted literally or figuratively or both, who or what it's referring to, how or if it relates to another topic, etc. Whew…glad I got that off my chest…now I bet I've got everyone confused on this thread .

You're bringing out the Elvis in me by Faith Hill...Grease Spot brings out the Elvis in me.

Have a good one!

Ok…fine…you’ve got me there! That will be on my Things-to-do list for this decade…And I am going to file a formal complaint on you, Miss Permit Police type person – for invasion of privacy. I’m NEVER to be photographed without my hat on!!!!!!....I didn’t know these cans had a web cam on them….geez and that’s not even my good side…you’ve really crossed the line this time, sister! First you sneak into my Testing thread and now this!

Two references that I’ve found helpful – even for beginners - There’s a handy Biblical Greek laminated quick reference sheets for $6.99 here: http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Greek-Zonde...s/dp/0310262941 And one for Biblical Hebrew costing $6.99: http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Hebrew-Zond...907&sr=1-17

A common factor I find running through a lot of these posts is a simple thing of acknowledging the authentic self. When making a decision, when formulating an opinion, when reflecting on an experience – it's asking "what do I think?" Rascal's post resonated with me. Joining TWI as a young man - I was thinking how in so many aspects it was like transferring parental supervision from mom and dad to that organization. My decisions, opinions, viewpoint, etc. revolved around TWI's way of thinking. TWI's intellectual standards, decision-making criteria, agendas, priorities, etc. became the artificial self – this overshadowed the authentic self. "What do I think? What do I want? What do I feel? What is important to me?" Simple questions – yes. But difficult for someone who for so long focused on what other folks thought, what other folks wanted, what pleased other folks. And it feels scary at first – because it feels so selfish. That's because we accepted the artificial self as real – it was viewed as good, "righteous", trustworthy, true…and the authentic self was looked upon as bad, "sinful", unreliable, deceitful, fake. At first, it can take a lot of time as you wade through every detail of an idea or decision. There were feelings very similar to when I first left home – away from mom and dad – feeling the weight of responsibility, the dilemma of priorities, ferreting out all options, exploring personal preferences, determining criteria for validity, etc. … growing pains…flexing your wings…taking flight…freedom! Feeling like your old self again? Whatever that is - don't think I can remember that far back …it just feels natural...it feels so right!

There's probably been some technological advances made since my system came online. The reason I still prefer my email system is that it affords much better security – I don't ever get any spam…used to though when I used Spam cans. If anyone is interested in designing a system similar to mine just email me for the technical details: T-Bone@ DelMonteTomatoPaste.Twine ...FYI : I've been experiencing intermittent outages due to twine rot and will be upgrading to a polypropylene network soon. In which case my new email address will be T-Bone @ DelMonteTomotoPaste.Polypropylene ...oh, and please don't use a Spam can when emailing me.

Larry, I have a different problem with that. As Hamm knows – I can get so absorbed in making up stuff…I think of a few from time to time that might improve my public image - but guess I ought to leave well enough alone… "Has the gift ministry of an idiot" "Plagiarizes every chance he gets" "Still uses 2 cans and a string to email" "Operates all 9 with Red Wine" "Overcame law of believing through positive affirmations" "Personally prophesied for Howdy Doody"

Apparently you have some difficulty understanding anything outside a strict adherence to your personal theology. Where in my posts or Scripture references have I said such things? As a matter of fact – after you have erroneously criticized my posts for things that are NOT in there [in your post # 44] – you turn right around and agree with a major point of my posts [in your post # 45]. Things are more productive on threads when everyone discusses points. GSC has discussion forums. Other websites have teaching or preaching forums – which are usually one-way streets – a teacher or preacher disseminates ideas. Discussion forums are a two-way street – with a fluid exchange and exploration of ideas. People don't always agree but contributors should be thinking, articulating their own views the best they can and asking for clarification of another's statement where something may be missunderstood. You seem to possess some knowledge of the Bible, interesting experiences and viewpoint that would be a contribution here – but your posts come across as if you are preaching/teaching/talking at us instead of listening to what other people are saying and responding thoughtfully. This is evident on a number of threads where posters say one thing and provide Scripture reference – you in reply, condemn their points, pronounce spiritual judgments against them – you then turn around and say something that agrees with the sentiment of their posts. You either have a personal agenda and deliberately ignore any input or feedback from people – or misunderstand thoughts/concepts that are not phrased in your terminology. Personally, I view all GSC folks as equals. Usually there is a great commerce among hearts, a tremendous exchange of wisdom and experiences, a great give-and-take dynamic, a genuine respect…and appreciation of other viewpoints - and everyone benefits in some way. That's been my experience on enjoyable threads – threads where those qualities are present. But that's just my take on things . Welcome to GSC, DrWearWord – I do hope you'll stick around, relax – and enjoy/respect/appreciate the great folks at GSC. Love, peace and freedom, T-Bone

Your statements read like nonsense – you pit God's moral law against His own Spirit and promote lawlessness and anarchy. The application of moral law has been transferred to human government. Read Romans 13 and ask yourself whether or not you are an obedient Christian: Romans 13:1-14 NIV 1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. 11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.[c]

You are a slave to that which you obey: Romans 6:11-23 NIV 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 7:14-25 NIV 14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Romans 8:1-8 NIV 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. The law of God is holy [the moral law which is based on God's character: righteous, loving, truthful, merciful, etc.]. Because of our weakness from sinful corruption – we were powerless to achieve righteousness nor avoid the penalty of breaking this moral law – now, through the work of His Son, we are empowered by the Spirit to obey it.

Actually, you're just telling us what your interpretation of the Bible is. VPW used to say, "I didn't write the book" too – typically VPW-followers are still under the delusion that personal opinion is truth. It is deceptive thinking that quotes a passage, makes comments about the passage, and then assumes the comments made are the one and only right interpretation of the passage. The typical PFAL student falls for this trick because VPW had a knack for equating his interpretation with Scripture itself – by his most often used phrase "this is what the Word says." …….What the Word says – is very simply – what is stated in the passage – in whatever translation is referenced. Once anyone makes a comment about the passage – we have entered the realm of interpretation – and hopefully the commentary adheres to good hermeneutic principles. And in regard to applying good intellectual standards, VPW was way below par - that is why he had to couch his assertions in phrases like "this is what the Word says" – in an effort to present his doctrines as unassailable. He would have been a lot more honest if he said, "this is what I think the passage means." What he lacked in scholarship and intellectual honesty he covered up with authoritative sounding BS.

You've already done that in accepting VPW's interpretation of II Peter 1:20,21.

When I read the PFAL book and see VPW's ineptness and often flagrant disregard of biblical keys - that's a red flag that the ideas aren't even his let alone that he mastered any of them. You may want to use the search features of GSC to read up on threads discussing VPW's twisting of II Peter 1:20, 21, Scripture is of no private interpretation - and that was his big selling point for using the keys…the actual purpose of the PFAL book seems to be how VPW unfolds Genesis to Revelation. Truth in advertising is a rare thing – I agree with Bolshevik:

Judging by your avatar, Groucho – you might benefit from a little Brazilian Keratin Treatment yourself. As for me…don’t think I need it…cuz I’m always wearing this goofy hat.

Happy birthday, BowTwi. You'll have to forgive the picture - but I have a real problem with your name. Every time I say your name I pronounce it "Bow Tie" - it's that "w" - it just throws me for a loop. So in deference to my bad habit of messing up your name I Googled "Happy Birthday Bow Tie" and this is the picture I found.

But does this squirrel look like he has any brains?

You’re darn right!!!! These posts are great for showing people what happens when someone goes off the deep end of PFAL gobbledygook!

Great, Java Jane ! I don't think they're corny. I really like these!

This one is a keeper too.

Thought I'd save the best for last.