T-Bone

As dated as that clip looks – I’d have to say their keyboard is probably a Commodore 64.

My results… Self [intrapersonal]: 3.29 Musical: 3.14 Social [interpersonal]: 2.86 Body Movement [kinesthetic]: 2.29 Logic / Math: 1.43 Not to be outdone by their system I deemed it necessary to come up with a test that assessed the really important stuff – the results of which I will dutifully log in my journal… Believing images of victory: .000002 Comedic potential: .00000007 Social skills with imaginary friends: 4.5 Body spastic potential: 4.9 Skin temperature while eating jalapeños: 103 F [Propensity for editing a post to death: 4.99]

Good post, DrWearWord – you've got me thinking about a "balanced Christian life" – whatever that is. I think I've hit it a time or two as I swing from one extreme to the other . Seriously though, I feel that is something to be worked out on an individual basis – hence my Philippians reference: Ecclesiastes 7:16, 17 NIV 16 Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise— why destroy yourself? 17 Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool— why die before your time? I Corinthians 6:12 NIV "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. Philippians 2:12, 13 NIV 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

I beg to differ on VPW being "the man of God" – and it wasn't that he "unfolded God's Word to us" but that he twisted the Bible to his liking – his skewed interpretation of the Bible became "The Word of God" for his followers. It is ironic you quote a passage that mentions divisions in the church - read a little further - the context [see below] shows the division was from some people favoring certain leaders <_< . The idea I get from Paul's remarks is that when people follow a leader - to the point where it focuses on the leader and not Christ - it may very well eclipse the real message of the gospel and nullify the power of the Cross. In my opinion – that's exactly what VPW accomplished! He'd portray himself as the man of god having the CORRECT interpretation of the Bible. All his arrogant egocentric viewpoint did was foster elitism in followers – causing divisions in the body of Christ - "VPW followers are in the household and everyone else is tripped out" . Of course, he'd swear to ya on a stack of KJV Bibles and PFAL books that it wasn't about him . "...How will we ever speak the same thing unless we study the same thing, people, and let the Word of God speak for itself." Oh yeah - let's think about how that actually worked in TWI: TWI followers all study the same thing - the PFAL book - and let VPW speak for the Word of God! ... And another thing to consider - Paul is addressing the church in its infancy – there were no systematic theologies of Christianity, no organized framework of thought written down - Paul's focus was usually about a relationship with Christ - not a relationship with a set of doctrines! I Corinthians 1:10-17 NIV 10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[a]"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b] the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

I’d like to say something about my lovely wife’s avatar… “Tonto, wish I knew how to quit you.”

On the First Redneck Church Bulletin Board: The Christmas Season is almost upon us. Once again, we’re going to do our famous live Nativity scene and need volunteers for the following: Three wise men to sit in the ’57 Chevy up on blocks. Attire should be appropriate – camouflage in a red and green pattern. Wise men are to supply their own props – 12 pack of beer and beef jerky – please do not open the beer or eat the beef jerky – these are gifts for the baby Jesus. Mary and Joseph to huddle over the baby Jesus laying in the Sears Kenmore Dryer. This year we’d prefer a woman who is not 7 months pregnant to play Mary. Anyone sporting prominent tattoos may qualify for the role of Joseph as long as the tattoos are in the spirit of the season. We’d like to have Cletus’ bird dog reprise his role as the baby Jesus – since he took so well to napping in the dryer last year.

Im 2 aFradE to post on tHis tread, [editTedd 2 make the grAmmre go0der then whAt it was/is?]

Great thread Roy, thanks. And great poem, Dooj – thanks for sharing that!...Like a lot of things, thoughts about my death have significantly changed since I left TWI…Am I ready? I hope so. As I continue to weed out TWIt-brain I now find thoughts of my own mortality usually drift toward self-examination – thinking about how I've treated family, friends and strangers lately. Part of TWIt-brain was that arrogant, know-it-all attitude that assumed you've got the full scoop on this life and a guaranteed seat in heaven. I don't think I'm as much afraid of death as I am of a slow, utterly painful death – I'm squeamish about pain. This probably all sounds like nonsense and unchristian – but this is the way my head "works." I believe I'm a Christian but no longer have that cocksure attitude about it – and figure maybe that's the way God designed people. Perhaps fears, self-doubts and reflection are meant to focus thinking toward what really matters. I don't mean so I will discover the truth or the ultimate reality. I mean to say that self-doubts, realizing my mortality…my humanness - forces me to review and re-evaluate the core of my beliefs and if I'm being true to them. Another very important aspect of "being ready for death" is preparing a will and any other legal instruments, buying life insurance, etc. needed to lessen the blow to family and friends. Since I don't like pain – why should I dump any additional pain on those I care about.

Great thread, thanks Belle! At Sunday school your uncle teaches on the Commandments using 10 of his tattoos as visual aids. Celebrate Good Friday by placing empty beer cans in the shape of a cross – called a “Brewcifix.”

I don't know if this still applies to GSC's new look - but before that - the first time I clicked on the ABC spell checker button on the posting window - it asked me if I wanted to download iSpell - which I did.

I think VPW went overboard with his belief of the flesh being of little consequence. That's probably why he had no qualms being drunk half the time, drugging and raping women…Often Scripture does link the flesh with mere earthly existence and a willing instrument of sin. But since the flesh is the ONLY physical means by which we interact with this world – Scripture often points out the tremendous bearing it has in this life as well as the next. In my opinion, Scripture does not encourage us to ignore the flesh – but to actually take heed to what we do in the flesh – acknowledging every thought, word and deed has ramifications. Romans 6:19-23 NIV 19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord. I Corinthians 3:10-17 NIV 10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. 16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple. I Corinthians 6:12-20 NIV 12 "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[b] 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. II Corinthians 5:6-10 NIV 6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. I Peter 3:9-12 NIV 8 Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech. 11He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it. 12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."[a]

You are assuming the evil has past. The insidious doctrines, practices, and viewpoint of VPW are alive and well at TWI! As Groucho so accurately put it in post # 1 – VPW knew TWI was a personality cult – and with VPW's persona as the man of god thoroughly embedded in its legacy – there has been no diminishing of his influence. As a former member of TWI and the Way Corps – I feel it is my Christian responsibility to expose the evil, reveal their manipulative tactics, warn others, and help those who want to rid themselves of TWI's poison. We are not dealing with a past event but an on-going menace that dominates the lives of its followers and inflicts mind-poisoning thought processes – followers are led astray to serve TWI's agenda instead of Christ. How they cloud the perception of followers and direct all efforts to ensure TWI's future is enough to make any real Christian vomit. It didn't seem to be worthless babble for Paul to talk about false apostles and deceitful workers – encouraging believers to be discerning. There's quite a difference between the humility and attitude of service of a true Christian leader exemplified in someone like Paul and the pompous, self-assuming, arrogant, tyrannical rulership of many a TWI leader: II Corinthians 11:1-15 NIV 1 I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way. 7Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. 9And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. 10As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. 11Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Romans 7:21-8:4 NIV 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Abigail – I've been fascinated with the Complete Jewish Bible translation of the Romans passage - especially thinking about the 'different "Torah"'. The NIV translates it as "another law" - I found some interesting comments in The New International Commentary on the New Testament: The Epistle to the Romans by Douglas Moo, pages 463, 464 concerning the words "another" [Greek: heteros], and "law" [Greek: nomos]: "…The greatest exegetical difficulty is Paul's qualification of the nomos in v. 23a as "another": if Paul had intended to refer in v.23a to the same law as in v.22, even if viewed from a different perspective, or with a different function, or even as "renewed and transformed," he would not have called it "another" or "different" law…" Footnote 72 of this sentence: "Heteros does not always [in distinction from allos] mean "another of a different kind" in NT Greek, but it always means "another," distinguishing two separate entities. The only possible exceptions are in Gal. 1:6 and 2 Cor. 11:4. But even here the "other gospel," etc., while in some sense related to the gospel that Paul preaches, is – and this is Paul's point – not his gospel. While claiming to be the same, it is, in fact, different – disastrously so… …I believe that "the other law" is not God's law in any form, but an "authority" or "demand" that is like, but opposed to, the Mosaic law. As in 3:27, Paul plays on the word nomos to create a rhetorically effective antithesis: "I, in my inner being, delight in and accept the authority of the Mosaic law; but I see a competing 'authority,' operating in my members." …" End of excerpts After likening sin to a virus [in my post # 92] and thinking about the verses Cman posted on weakness in post # 93, and this different "Torah" – I've been thinking about the weakness of the flesh – how it is prone to sin – and so is attracted to something having similar traits - being susceptible to sin's competing authority. Sin [as an infecting virus] using something good [the law] to impersonate God's authority issues its sinful dictates – targeting our weakest area – the flesh.

Happiest of days to ya, love Tonto & T-Bone

Maybe the way some of this evidence "speaks for itself" is through the voices of those who interpret it. Like I said in post # 37 it's all a matter of how one interprets the information. And not being an archeologist or paleontologist actively working out in the field – the data is coming to me second hand – usually accompanied with their [the scientist's] interpretation of the data. Dooj has a valid point in post # 102 - we do not have any eyewitnesses or for that matter certified time-lapse film showing the processes that happened eons ago. I thought it was interesting when Groucho said in post # 31, "I believe that God created the process of evolution." My own belief system has evolved dramatically from when I left TWI. I am intrigued by the wealth of data from the sciences and find myself many times re-adjusting my opinion of things. I believe in God as the Creator – but as time goes on, I become less certain of exactly HOW He did things. Sometimes we don't ask the right questions. Trying to figure out some things from limited data - reminds me of a riddle. Maybe you've heard it. The riddle goes like this: "Rick and Sally were found dead on the floor, below a window, lying in water, and broken glass. How did they die?" People can only ask questions requiring a yes/no answer – like "Is the broken glass from the window?" answer: "No." Question: "Did Rick and Sally drown?" answer: "No."…The trick of the riddle is in the assumption many folks have that Rick and Sally are human. I remember the light bulb coming on as people's line of questions narrowed down a detail of the glass – "was it from a drinking glass?" - "No."…"From a mirror?" – "No."…"From a skylight?" – "No."…"From a fishbowl?" – "Yes." Then comes the Ah-ha-moment "Are Rick and Sally fish?" – "Yes." …Rick and Sally, pet fish, died by asphyxiation when their fishbowl fell off the windowsill and broke. So what does the evidence/research say to me? Maybe I'm asking a different question than someone else. I'm NOT asking "Does this prove God does or doesn't exist?" I'm asking, "What does this tell me about how God did this?" [this post edited gradually, over eons of nanoseconds, as the idea slowly evolved]

What people are saying about T-Bone’s avatar. Walter Brennen: “Dagnabit – I had that look first, on the Real McCoys! Who does that young whipper snapper think he is anyway!” Gabby Hayes: “Don’t believe either one of these jokers – I started that look – I wish you could see it in the original.” Dr. Seuss: “I do not like that hat on your head. I think it looks like a loaf of bread. Why don’t you try a party hat, a lampshade, a toaster or a Siamese Cat.” Mini Me: “I wish he was someone I could look up to.” Momma T-Bone: “Now young man, you get back in here right now and finish your porridge or you’re not getting any Twinkies.” Mister T: “I pity the fool.”

Yo Tony – great thread. DMiller, love the Herding Cats clip!

Hopefully things will work out.