T-Bone

Yes, Suda – that would be best if he clarified the post. I may have misunderstood him. I've highlighted in bold red the statement of his post that got my attention: It appears to me he put vpw in the same class of people as the heroes he spoke about earlier in the post. He has genuine admiration for people who did the right thing, the exceptional thing in times of battle. The admiration vpw received was undeserved – he had everybody fooled with his impersonation of a man of god. Yeah – we're all fallible – we all sin. vpw let his sins get the best of him….they dominated him. In the spiritual battle – he wound up working for the enemy of God by hurting the sheep – not an isolated incident, a fleeting moment of weakness – but on a regular basis! And if he wasn't spiking some woman's drink so he could rape her he was poisoning the minds of Corps in-training by showing them his favorite porn video - teaching people that you can so renew your mind that stuff doesn't bother you...his idea of a pure mind was a conscience seared with a hot iron…There is no sporting savagery here. His deception should be exposed, his hypocrisy revealed so that so that the name of the Lord Jesus is magnified. It is a disgrace to the name of Christ to excuse, belittle or rationalize what he did.

This post has been in my thoughts for awhile….I think it's insulting to true military heroes to put vpw in the same class as them. Sure, everyone has their faults…nobody is perfect. But we recognize acts of bravery and self-sacrifice as indicative of the real character of the person – a particular act merely revealing what they're made of and testifies of their allegiance to the objectives of their country. vpw was supposed to be a minister of God, fighting the good fight of faith, focused on the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Yet his DOMINANT BEHAVIOR PATTERNS, his battlefield tactics so to speak - line up more with the spiritual enemy he mentions in the opening of PFAL – whose objectives are to steal, kill and destroy. vpw should be classified as a spiritual traitor.

You've got our prayers!

Another Dan – thanks for your input. A different perspective is always welcome. When you mentioned "the life is in the twig" I thought back on when I first got involved with TWI. Things were so simple, the fellowship sweet – there was a real love for God and people. As time went on, I saw TWI become more rigid…with a more pronounced centralized government….it stifled the life out of twig. This imposing system loomed large enough in areas where I served – that for me it eclipsed the simple enjoyment of loving God and people. Watered Garden – that's a great quote!!!!! It's odd, isn't it – how individuality can be "stolen." It's like buying something counterfeit. I gave up something of great value [my uniqueness] to conform to a template of the ultimate TWI follower. I remember every time I'd write a song I could count on leadership going over every verse with a fine toothed PFAL comb making lots of changes. Eagle – yup! I go by the old saying actions speak louder than words. A sermon is only half the message. How a preacher walks the talk can either validate the message or nullify it. Groucho – you reminded me of one of the first things I began to see after leaving TWI in 86. I was thinking about the Way Tree and began studying any passages that provided a glimpse into church government…I saw a stark contrast between the simple, dynamic and seemingly autonomous churches of the New Testament and the overbearing leadership hierarchy of TWI trying to pump artificial life out to the twigs….Like a weird Frankenstein church – Dr. Frankenstein steals body parts [hijacks the Jesus movement, plagiarizes from real ministers/teachers], puts it all together his way – and provides a head for the monster by using his own. "It's alive! It's alive!" Doojable – wow….that's an incredible post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In PFAL, right after vpw says "When it comes to the Word I have no friends," I picture Jesus busting onto the set and saying to him "When it comes to my sheep I have no friends!" ….Yeah – I wish we saw that in the original! Skyrider – "Was he an enemy of the cross, as well?..........drawing others unto himself?" Interesting point! The MacArthur Study Bible has this on that phrase in Philippians 3:18: "enemies of the cross. Implied in Paul's language is that these men did not claim to oppose Christ, His work on the cross, or salvation by grace through faith alone, but they did not pursue Christlikeness in manifest godliness. Apparently, they were posing as friends of Christ, and possibly had even reached positions of leadership in the church."

C.S. Lewis, Jay Adams, John MacArthur, Norman Geisler, Karen Armstrong, John Walvoord, Alister McGrath, J.I. Packer, John Stott, Jonathan Edwards, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Rick Warren, Chuck Swindoll, Millard Erickson, R.C.H. Lenski, Grant Osborne, Dave Hunt, Walter Elwell, F.F. Bruce, Max Anders, J.C. Ryle, Francis Schaeffer, and William Hendricks.

If that's even his closet......maybe he's a peeping tom! :o

The invisible man coming out of the closet.

Another Dan, I’d hate to see you go. You bring another valuable perspective here! Please consider the idea that some of your processing things out loud here at Grease Spot can serve as a BIG help to someone else. Love and peace to you brother, T-Bone

I'm son of Spartacus and my wife is Catherine Zeta-Jones.....and I'm going to tell her I'm gay.

And it's possible God expects people to use their brains instead of assuming He will lead them around by the nose everywhere. Seems to me that the Scriptures have sufficient criteria on key issues in life just so we can make wise choices – like the passages that show how to spot a false teacher for instance…And to address your problem another way – I'd ask why assume God would lead people to an organization that opposes His moral will?

I was reading Ephesians this morning. When I got to the part about the mystery revealed in chapter 3, I had to stop and sort out all the thoughts that flooded my mind about TWI. I thought about how destructive they were to the mystery…My post was inspired by some recent threads [like A Few Big things I learned in PFAL and Spiritual Abuse]. Once again, I find myself staring at their boldfaced hypocrisy. Briefly summarizing the mystery as taught in PFAL: It is Christ in each believer [Colossians 1:27], and that in Christ, Jews and Gentiles are one body in God's family [Ephesians 3:4-6]. After my negligible religious upbringing – this was exciting news – and I know for a lot of folks this was one of the great things they got out of PFAL. Yet when I recall how TWI treated folks [whether they were in or out] it looks to me like God's mystery had remained a real mystery for them. How TWI treats the individual I think about how demeaning their chain-of-command was. There is no respect for the individual. You must conform to their ideals. You would think with "Christ in you" you'd be considered special, a somebody. Well, you sort of are – it's like you said "I want to be a marine – go ahead and dish it out I can take it. Mold me into being Christ-like."….There's a subtle homogenizing process – the "real you", the "Christ in you" they talked about was actually their ideal follower with PFAL for a brain. As Corps in training we were treated like dirt, slave labor - and in turn were expected to deal with folks the same way once out on the field. How TWI treats outsiders The dominant public opinion was always that they had more of the rightly divided Word than any group on earth. TWI folks are in the household of God – all other "so-called Christian groups" are either counterfeits or way out there in left field. My wife remembers lcm saying evangelists like Billy Graham were making bastard children, by only getting them born again and not teaching them the rightly divided Word…TWI has taken the place of the absent Christ. To heck with Christ's invisible church [made up of folks who may or may not be a member of a visible church]. The best way to verify a member of God's "true" church was to check for their signature on a Green Card.

Alright....let's have a show of hands....who wants to see this thread die?

Grrrrrrrrr….there's a lot of hellfire-power in lcm's words…Just like the unrealistic "positive thinking" crap they pushed – we're also told to have "positive emotions"…..yeah, dream on in happy Way World... Regarding emotions, I read something interesting in a book - The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness by Antonio Damasio. I read it a few years ago – so I'm a little fuzzy on the details…but anyway…the book talks about something doctors noticed in patients that had trauma to the portion of the brain that handles emotions. They found it was extremely difficult for these patients to make rational decisions…. The way I take it – we were DESIGNED to USE our emotions in the decision-making process….It's part of our make up….what makes us human…it's dumb to think we can turn off portions of our brain like it's a machine with fully articulated control switches….What'll they think of next "you can't go beyond what you're taught"?.....oh wait, vpw already came up with that. That's where you turn off the switches to Critical Thinking and Creative Thinking…..alright, just forget this whole post. It's based on negative emotions. I wrote it out of anger over lcm's words. [but then again – I could replace my opening "Grrrrrrrrr" with the smiley face emoticon :) and I bet this post could sneak by TWI's thought-police] [note to self: from now on preface any criticisms of TWI with a smiley face :) ] [***Test, test, this is only a test***trying out new criticism technique: :) "What really gets me so fired-up angry is thinking about the twofold destruction wrought by these predators – ravaging people in the name of Christianity."]

I think they've got it hands down.

Another Spot, bringing up TWI's Sedative to the Conscience thread gets me thinking about how it empowered the spiritual abuser and left the spiritually abused defenseless. vpw's personalized twist of "renewing the mind" was egocentric – based upon what pleased him! Similar to his interpretation of the two great commandments – as long as you love God and neighbor you could do as you full well pleased. It's a love not based on moral standards but on one's own idea of what love is.Combine that with the erroneous assumption that you could "renew" your mind to something and it wouldn't "bother" you anymore – and you have a potent recipe for a sedative to the conscience. That is contrary to the process found in Romans 12 – where it shows that real transformation by the renewed mind is preceded by offering ourselves to God as a living sacrifice. Romans 12:1, 2 NIV 1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. How do I offer my body to Him as a living sacrifice? I'm thinking it revolves around what I do with my body – in other words, my actions…my behavior! I tend to think things like the Golden Rule [do unto others as you would have them do unto you – which is another way of saying "love your neighbor as yourself"] would qualify as " holy and well pleasing to God" and would be a "spiritual act of worship .".....Interesting you mentioned how TWI taught people to ignore feelings. We often hear people say "I've got a bad feeling about this" or "my gut just tells me this is wrong." "This just doesn't feel right" ......Interesting.... ~~ vpw misapplied the law of liberty on non-moral issues covered in Romans 14. A famous saying of his was something along the lines of, "what I may allow in my life you wouldn't allow in yours and visa versa." That could cover a lot of ground – when you don't put it in the context of moral or non-moral issues. When this idea dominates a group of folks it becomes a green light for predators to have a field day – and wreaks havoc on the faith of their victims who think they're not spiritual enough to handle it. It's training someone to violate their own conscience – " just renew your mind, baby!" Romans 14:1-8, 13-23 NIV 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. Did you notice a key phrase in the opening verse – "disputable matters." Is adultery a disputable matter? Is stealing a disputable matter? Is there any question as to whether adultery or stealing is wrong, a sin? Of course not! But what was a matter of opinion? The importance and relevance of Old Testament dietary restrictions and ceremonial laws that were no longer in effect – in other words…non-moral issues.

I understand what you're saying, Lindyhopper – I was actually trying to address Def59's questions by observation of generalities. And I think they're some really tough questions at that! Maybe our species' moral capacity is a combination of inherent and learned qualities…like other functions of the brain. It has the capacity for abstract thought and language – but where someone is born and raised determines concepts they'll grasp and their native tongue….My theistic viewpoint believes the moral capacity of man is there by design. But thinking about it from a non-theistic viewpoint – it could be something that evolved – sort of like our immune system. Man's tendency to protect aspects of life driven by self-preservation….I'm not saying how the moral capacity got there – I'm just saying it looks to me like it's always been there.

Our Father in heaven, may your Name be honored here. May the cult that gives Christianity a bad name be exposed for the hypocrites that they are. May your kingdom be my priority now. Please give me a wake-up call if I ever let some two-bit outfit run my life again. May your moral will be done, I intend to love my neighbor as myself. Help me to be a true friend to those who have been hurt. Now that I’ve come to my senses - I will never again support a self-serving organization that has no qualms ravaging innocent sheep. May their evil will be undone! Please give me the strength and opportunity to work and provide basic things for my family. I am ashamed of how I used to think of you as my Sugar Daddy, dropping off my “want list” and gave no thought to my relationship with you. Forgive me for unknowingly supporting predators. I will never do that again! And I will forgive those who criticize me – even though they may still be in that cult and unknowingly serve wolves. Give me the courage and strength to speak up for your righteousness, and grant me patience and love to encourage cult-sympathizers to think. Please don’t ever let me get tricked again by false teachers – I love freedom too much and that would just kill me. Help me to discern the real issues in the heat of a battle. I thank you for delivering me from such an evil group. I am blown away every time I think of how you orchestrated their meltdown in 86. That was just as miraculous as the Exodus of old! A-okay!

I'm telling ya - Rev. Another Spot has a ministry on the cutting edge....with signs, miracles and wonders guaranteed to raze a few eyebrows.

It makes me sad too.....To overcome this blindness it takes the same deliberate act of the will that succumbed to the blindness....Vision begins to restore as one looks at all things TWI - OUTSIDE the context of TWI.

Another Spot, obviously you have some sort of ministry with cutting utensils.......was your first thought to give the millipede a haircut?