T-Bone

Rise up, O men of God.

Fact: On September 13th 1984, TWI's Rome City Indiana Campus, I was at a pajama party hosted by vp. In attendance were some two hundred Family Corps [both adults and teenagers]. He played a porn video followed by a talk on how a Christian can so renew their mind that this stuff wouldn't bother them, the spiritually mature can handle anything and that anything done in the love of God is okay. After the talk, he lightened up things by telling a few jokes and showing a porn pen to a sixteen-year-old girl. Fact: On page 175 of The Way: Living in Love, vp claimed he took everything he could take from the Moody Correspondence School. There's a letter posted on Grease Spot [see link below] from the registrar's office that proves otherwise: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=213920 Defamation, slander & libel from Wikipedia: In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts which arises where one person reveals information which is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person. Fraud from Wikipedia: In the broadest sense, a fraud is a deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and is also a civil law violation. Many hoaxes are fraudulent, although those not made for personal gain are not technically frauds. Defrauding people of money is presumably the most common type of fraud, but there have also been many fraudulent "discoveries" in art, archaeology, and science. Question: Is the communication of facts considered libel or exposure of one who is a fraud and sexual predator?

A very incisive post…..and what you've expressed is pretty much the way I feel about this topic too. Thanks, Mstar! Just a few random thoughts to add to this thread: In regards to this topic and my TWI experience, I've sorta adopted a slogan from the Demotivators website: Mistakes: It Could Be That The Purpose Of Your Life Is Only To Serve As A Warning To Others http://www.demotivators.com/mis24x30prin.html That more or less sums up my philosophy when posting on Grease Spot. And though I believe that is an apt description of how I feel about that experience – there's more to me than that. After I escaped TWI, I quit trying to figure out "my calling in life" and just got into enjoying life. That took awhile and really boiled down to rediscovering the authentic self. Not that I'm there yet – or ever will be – maybe it's a combination of figuring out what was genuinely me before TWI, and recognizing my strengths & weaknesses during TWI…it's all about sorting out my experiences – both then and now, long after TWI – reflecting on what my responses were and what that tells me about myself. It's about finding your inner demon. [ok – I just threw that one in to pi$$ off my first Twig Coordinator ]. I've never felt like I had a calling in life. But if we're talking about what gives one a sense of fulfillment I can think of a few simple roles that make me feel happy: being a good friend to my lifelong companion - I'm still crazy about Tonto, being a good dad, being a competent technician, and being creative [in several media – music, photography, and writing]. Not saying I'm always good at being all that…heck, a lot of times I suck at more than one role – who knows, maybe someday I'll master chewing gum & walking - but what the he11 – I enjoy doing all those things and just feel a lot better when I'm giving it my best shot.

Good point, Word Wolf and thanks for the reminder…it's amazing how much my opinion has changed over some facts that I was an eyewitness of. Fact: On September 13th 1984, TWI's Rome City Indiana Campus, I was at a pajama party hosted by vp. In attendance were some two hundred Family Corps [both adults and teenagers]. He played a porn video followed by a talk on how a Christian can so renew their mind that this stuff wouldn't bother them, the spiritually mature can handle anything and that anything done in the love of God is okay. After the talk, he lightened up things by telling a few jokes and showing a porn pen to a sixteen-year-old girl. My 1984 Opinion: my journal entry about that night speaks in such glowing terms – relishing in how vp deemed us spiritually mature enough to handle such things. My 2008 Opinion: He was a sexual predator intent on perpetuating his own moral depravity. My opinion on my change of opinion: That TWI-mindset sure do make you blind!

Port-A-Potty 8:5-7 The New Sewers Translation 5 Sewers went out to spread vp's hazardous waste: and as they flushed, some folks fell by the curbside; and they were trodden down by leadership wearing L.E.A.D.-footed boots, and the fowls of the air pooped all over them. 6 And some fell for the same old BS again – just like at their first Rock; and as soon as TWIt-head sprung up, once again their brains withered away, because nonsense made more cents for the reverends of hazardous waste. 7 And some fell among thorns; they were the lucky ones who flipped out while witnessing at a Guns N' Roses concert never to be seen again at the Sewers' Kitchen Dining Table.

A few suggestions for an appropriate slogan... It is flushed. It's the turd, the turd and nothing but the turd! And here's a twist on an old familiar slogan so that it's more like a directive, A mind is a terrible thing. To waste, I say! [edited to the point of being exceedingly abundantly immersed in all the BS...better call Rotor Rooter!]

Thanks, Sir Todd !

Twinky, I agree with Tom. Getting to know you since the BBQ last year - I'd say you're definitely a helper. And the experiences you've shared and how you speak of your career with such passion, I think motivator is on the mark too.

Interesting - an element of mystery! When you meet folks for the first time do you ever get the feeling that they don't quite know how to take you?

Don't feel bad, Twinky – I had the same reaction to my results. I expected to score high on the Artist and Skeptic but here's my full test results: Type 1 The Reformer…-3 Type 2 The Helper…3 Type 3 The Motivator…0 Type 4 The Artist…2 Type 5 The Thinker…8 Type 6 The Skeptic…-2 Type 7 The Generalist…-5 Type 8 The Leader…-9 Type 9 The Peacemaker…6 After I took the test and read the descriptions and checked out the diagrams on the same website – I gave this link in my first post: http://www.9types.com/homepage.actual.html The more I thought about it – the more I felt the results reflected the way I usually handle things. I do tend to analyze everything and pride myself on getting along with just about anyone at work. Who knows – I guess we could keep taking the test repeatedly and score differently each time…I wouldn't make any life-changing decisions over it…just thought we'd have a little fun with an exercise in self-discovery.

Right, Mark! [this is in response to your post # 37 - since I take soooooo long to post - but I also like the points you made in post # 38 ] I feel the same way. And our blindness was due to the TWI mindset wrapped up in an amazing cloak of invisibility. After wearing those PFAL-colored glasses for awhile, we were not even aware that we had them on...I'm certainly no expert on critical thinking - but something I've figured out about it so far, is that effective critical thinking must have some kind of self-diagnostic aspect to it - AND the freedom to check out all the angles on a given issue. In other words, our thought process should incorporate ways to check out our own logic, isolate & identify viewpoints & assumptions, analyze all viewpoints for validity. But that kind of thinking was impossible in an oppressive environment that frowned upon challenges and questions to their frame of thought.

Great points! Talking about proof-texting, that reminds me of a good book on erroneous interpretation methods that I read shortly after leaving TWI: Scripture Twisting: 20 Ways the Cults Misread the Bible by James Sire. Thinking about the academic aspect of TWI, I believe a HUGE factor contributing to the faulty research and premises was vp's way of pitting "spirituality" against reason. And if you didn't follow his line of thinking on something, it meant you weren't spiritual. In The Blue Book, The Bible Tells Me So, Chapter 3 Are You Limiting God?, page 23, vp says: "…We have been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to us through our five senses that we fail to recognize the knowledge that comes from the higher realm, the spiritual, where the Word of God, and not reason, has first place. Both realms or worlds are here: the natural world is factual; the spiritual world is true…" End of Excerpt And I remember a big point made in the Advanced Class was that spiritual knowledge cannot be analyzed; only ascertained…vp's assertions served to give his doctrines intellectual immunity – "truths" that were unassailable by mere reasoning mortals. Laying aside vp's penchant for plagiarism, the thing that made his work or anything based on his work so laughable imho was the assumption that vp or PFAL was THE standard for truth, as LCM once said in an old Way Magazine article PFAL is the touchstone for truth...Critical thinking was sacrificed on an altar that revered PFAL above anything else - even the Bible! ~~ Another point I'd like to make - which would probably be more appropriate in the doctrinal forum: In my opinion, Scripture pits faith against the five senses but does NOT pit faith against reason. ~~ The same goes for my research paper. A directive that LCM gave the Corps before starting our research paper was: Don't try to re-invent the wheel – base it on something from PFAL. I don't believe a typical TWI follower could think their way out of a paper bag with both sides of their brain tied behind a PFAL book.

Happy Birthday Medic's Wife, our thoughts & prayers are with you and hubby. Love Tonto & T-Bone

Migraine headaches caused by devil spirits - no, I don't remember that one....Butchaknow, thinking about how often they attributed problems to them - makes you wonder if TWI caused devil spirits.

Thanks Ex10 & Shazdancer, for your input…Yeah Shaz, that local gov thing sounds kinda weird to me too. This stuff is all new to me and thought it would be fun – it may ‘splain a little more if I tell you how I stumbled onto it. I’m reading a book Write Great Fiction: Dialogue [Techniques and Exercises for Crafting Effective Dialogue] by Gloria Kempton. Kempton has a chapter on developing characters. In it she suggests using the nine personality types – definitions she’s taken from Baron & Wagele’s The Enneagram made Easy – to craft believable characters with dialogue that sounds real - like it’s coming from their authentic personality revealing “genuine” motivations – in other words, it all rings true for a fictional character. Personally, I take a lot of things with a grain of salt and usually defer to my lucky astrology mood ring [with a wink & nod to monsieur Steve Martin].

Well, you do have a lot of personality :wub: ....but now, if people are referring to you as having a lot of personalties - yeah, I'd be a little concerned if I were you.

Hmmmm...well, maybe you're a number 6, skeptic.

Dave, thanks for those YouTube clips! My all time favorite tune of Lyle's is That's Right (You're Not From Texas), which has become my theme song since this old New Yawka has grown to love Texas. Reminds me of when I first met Tonto's dad. He explained the difference between a Yankee and a d@mn Yankee. A Yankee comes down to Texas to visit. A d@mn Yankee comes down to Texas and stays here.

Yes - since you're a leader, you should take over this thread. I for one, don't have a problem with that [must be the peacemaker kicking in].

I found something fun the other day and thought some Grease Spotters might get into it too. It's a website to determine your personality type. It's a system that describes nine personality types and according to Wikipedia is used in many mainstream publications on the subject and is being applied in a variety of applications, including business, psychology, psychotherapy, organizational development, career coaching, the arts, health care, parenting, education and spiritual growth. When I took the online test [it's the first link I've pasted below] – I scored highest as a thinker and second as a peacemaker. Interesting enough, I scored lowest as a leader – I'm sure I'm gonna hear about that in my next Corps evaluation . I imagine we've got a few overachievers on Grease Spot who will claim they operate all nine all the time. Take the personality test here: http://www.9types.com/newtest/homepage.actual.html ~~ For extra credit, you can check out these websites: http://www.9types.com/homepage.actual.html http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality

Last I heard he got kicked out of an Arthur Murray Dance Studio.

Sorry Dave – of all the things I could have joked about I didn't know LEAD would push some buttons….[thinking fast to change the subject] Hey, did I tell you about the other week - we got to see Sam Bush burning up the mandolin with Lyle Lovett and His Large Band.

Geepers, Tom – you might as well tell him the whole nine yards…Dave, if you decide to accept this Grease Spot challenge then you can't start hitching until 72 hours before opening night of the BBQ. And if you happen to be a little late [remember Grease Spot time is 10 minutes before the meeting starts] then you'll be turned away and have to hitch back home. Oh, and one more thing – you are allowed to have only twenty dollars when you start hitching and must have twenty dollars when you return home….uhm…let's see….if you return home and come up a little short of the twenty dollars then…uhm…I guess you'll have to hitch back to EX10's house and do some fiddle picking for room & board till you get your believing up. If she won't have you – you can always stay with Tonto & me – but you ain't getting off cheap…I'm thinking free music lessons and a cure for my wooden ear!

Great stuff, Belle - thanks!! I've often wondered if a clock could become a grease spot by midnight...and if so, could it elude that oily demise by periodically moving to an earlier time zone?

A thought provoking post, One Who is Free! Whenever I think of that Genesis reference: Genesis 50:20 NASB "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." My mind always tags on a passage from Romans: Romans 8:28 NASB And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. Don't know who can explain the way God works behind the scenes – like you were saying it depends on one's theology. The above passages offer little to explain exactly how God intervenes – or to put it another way – exercises His sovereignty. But they are very clear on His intent – both verses focus on the benevolence of God. Despite all the bad things that happened to Joseph, God still managed to turn things around – even while he was in jail! The story of Joseph is an amazingly intricate blend of God's sovereignty and man's activity. Romans does NOT say God causes all things…it's that He causes all things to work together for good. I realize any analogy or speculation on how God works falls short of describing His abilities or what He actual does – but sometimes I picture God as a grand traffic-controller of events. He does not exert absolute control over each being in the flow of events, but I consider all beings as something of His design and think they would typically follow some innate protocols [like the conscience – referred to in Romans 2:14, 15]. That's one level of influence God already has over the big picture [the traffic flow or chain of events]. Another, more overt level of influence as shown in the Joseph account and other stories is when God induces messages in dreams, provides direct revelation, and speaks audibly. He can work through a variety of approaches. He may re-direct traffic or block off streets through natural or "coincidental" means, or use a more direct approach – a miracle – which I would classify as an emergency response vehicle that has the right-of-way in all traffic – . Besides taking into account God's omnipotence to pull all that off – it's altogether mind-boggling when I think of God's omniscience – He not only knows what's going on at the moment…everywhere…but He's got foreknowledge – which is better than up-to-the-minute-traffic-reports. He's already making preparations for things that will happen way down the road! Which brings up the power of prayer. How does that fit in with God's sovereignty? Well, it just may be that a particular prayer is the means God deemed necessary for something to happen. From our perspective – it looks like our prayer changed the course of events. But perhaps from God's viewpoint – that prayer was exactly what He planned on using to ensure the flow of events according to His agenda. ~~ For me, the most complex weaving of God's sovereignty and man's activity is the crucifixion of Jesus. Think about all the contingencies that threatened the entire life of Jesus – yet Scripture foretold the way He would die. One passage showcases this conundrum of God's sovereignty and man's activity: Matthew 26:23-25 NASB 23And He answered, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24"The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." 25And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, "Surely it is not I, Rabbi?" Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself." ~~ Since your post got me thinking how all this relates to my TWI experience – I'm at a loss for figuring out exactly what God had in mind for me. That's not to say my whole experience was bad or there's nothing good that came out of it. I feel the road I've taken after TWI is in many ways a God-honoring response to a spiritually treacherous experience. I take very seriously the development of MY belief system. Being burned enough by religious con-artists I've learned the hard way about the value of critical thinking and the necessity of a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ. In some ways – I think any Christian who escaped TWI had a Paul-conversion-experience. Paul was zealous for God, knew the Old Testament like the back of his hand – but persecuted the very One who was at the center of the Scriptures. Until he met Him on the road to Damascus. That mindset-shattering experience caused Paul to re-think everything he knew about the Scriptures. He didn't throw it all away – instead he re-built his theological system – now with Christ at the center! To simplify things – I'm saying life is too short to try and figure out what God's plan was for me while in TWI. Like Joseph, I think the best we can do is look to God for strength and wisdom to make lemonade out of lemons…And on a very practical level – I've found myself drawing upon even the negative experiences of TWI. I tend not to get caught up in office politics like some folks after dealing with all the mind-games of Corps training. I don't care how much of a control-freak a supervisor becomes – it usually slides off my back as I stifle a smile while thinking I'm Corps dammit – this ain't nothing!