T-Bone

Great discussion on this thread Ecclesiastes has always been one of my favorite books for some reason...part of it might be the way it seems to resonate with my "hybrid faith" - one way to refer to the state of my faith after the TWI experience. The book covers a lot of ground and paints mostly a melancholy picture of the human condition amidst the futility of life....the point at the end of the book - remember now thy Creator in the days of my youth - really hits me big - in that i've reverted back to the simple faith i had as a child fascinated by the things of this world that science explained and a deep awe for the one who created it all. Socrates brought up a good point about group-think and i just wanted to mention Karen Armstrong's book "A History of God" ; it's an interesting read; i can see how the threat of the unknown and modern technology is a big driving force behind fundamentalism.

while a debate over the motivation of a fictional character would be interesting - i think you've brought up a very good point to consider when addressing polygamy - and even though i'm a guy, for the record - i'd just like to say i think there's a lot of truth in your point.

WordWolf started a good discussion on what does God know in doctrinal http://www.greasespo...post__p__364531 ~~ My 2 cents for this discussion – will try to be as brief as possible given this is not in doctrinal forum: Assuming the Bible correctly describes some attributes of God Almighty [which is my assumption] – I tend to think a theological discussion of those attributes will only be an approximation or mere speculation seeing that we are but finite beings. That being said – my idea of God's foreknowledge may be somewhat similar to your cone idea, God at the point viewing the other end.....but with an added feature - considering a description of God in Isaiah 57:15 [that God inhabits eternity] – I get the sense that God is not only the creator of this thing called time but God also has an interactive role in time. Maybe God's foreknowledge is more than just SEEING into the future – since He inhabits eternity, perhaps He's already experienced it – being there as it happens or happened [depending on what time-referenced point of view you adopt]. Hard to imagine? Yup! i have no idea what it's like to be an infinite being. ~~ When it comes to trying to fathom the wisdom of God's plan or plans - i have another assumption – that God was not surprised by any choices of angels or mortals but had in fact already incorporated these contingencies into His plans. And if I may speculate further – perhaps in giving us freewill God figured that was the best way to gear us up for eternity and His "ultimate plan" – through the experiences [good & bad], lessons, wisdom, heartaches & joys, relationships, etc. we have in this life.....Maybe that's the way God intended to create a universe to His liking - by allowing us to play a part in the grand scheme of things. in the next life we don't start from scratch…..maybe there's some continuity….here and now = phase 1……...eternity = phase 2.

it wasn't until my practicum year - still reeling from the impact of hearing Passing of the Patriarch - amidst the turmoil within my head and it seemed like all the TWI world around me - that a crazy thought popped into my head "why not step back and look over this whole thing"......that was one small step for me....one giant step for the critical thinking process. i bought the corps program hook, line, and sinker. it is a weird thing to say now - but in a strange twist of the plot i am glad Chri$ G33r read that paper - i heard him via a live hook-up at Rome City on a corps night......how fitting..... awhile back i got in touch with someone i got into the ministry; our conversation wasn't that heated..... i kept bringing up the reasons why i left and he kept going on about how Chris' group [he followed them now] addressed those issues.......it was sad.....there but for a rash of thinking go i.

you've just described my current decision-making process....that old Ben Franklin method was way too much work.

silly, you've got your decoder ring set in the Advanced Class Mode - that's familia spirit ! got it?!?! it's "eat your familia spirit and shut the trap door" for cryin' out loud

you made me recall vp's definition of an apostle in PFAL, something along the lines of ...."an apostle - one who sheds new light - it may be old light but it's new to the generation he speaks".... ...now by using my TWI-light Secret Decoder Ring to decipher that it yields the following translation, which in my opinion puts a relevant twist on your phrase: "heavy plagia-ruse"

i wonder if vp ever thought about an alternate career......being an echo in a cave. i wonder if vp ever thought about an alternate career......being an echo in a cave.

oh my stars - - uhm....well, not MY stars - it's just a figure of speech - - well, maybe not MY figure of speech..... anyway - we need to get another plagiarism thread going on Sun Spot Cafe. Stella !!!!!!!

the Greater Wanker and Lesser Wanker are near the constellation Canker - i believe that's what Galileo sore.

we're here all wick folks ....and thanks Socrates for letting me crash your thread

oh, he11 yeah!!!!! ...and i bet Tonto and i are probably the only ones to remember him saying that, for some odd reason <_<. interesting how some insidious barbs seem to operate by a time-delay. we heard that while in residence and left the ministry during our practicum year. 2 years later our daughter was born. So, imagine two cult escapees in the early stage of prying ourselves loose from an entrenched mindset - which by itself is a daunting task - and compound the turmoil with those words of craig looming in our heads. all i've got to say is that we're thankful - so very very thankful to be out of that sick heartless crap - not just for the personal freedom - but i doubt that our daughter would have been able to enjoy a normal life if we were still in.....Tonto and i often kid that our daughter has more of a social life than we do - of course, we have a lot to do with seeing that she has a social life...and i'm ok with that.....heck we're a couple of old fuddy duddies who work then come home and blob out in front of the TV......and here's the kicker - we're all happy.

if you're referring to his paraffin-alia, it really depends on one's general outlook .....ya know - the old is-the-glass-half-empty-or-half-full thing. ....so, is it a half-wick or a long nub?

oh, you think he was hot-rodding - yikes ~~ dialog at Admissions Desk of Emergency Room: Hospital clerk: so, did you have this burning sensation while urinating? Jack Pyrowax: no, just when i lit it. Hospital clerk: do you work full time at ..... [looks at the form he filled out]... The Candle Factory? Jack Pyrowax: no, just on wick ends. Hospital clerk: oh, you didn't check the box to indicate your sex Jack Pyrowax: i don't think it's applicable now

yeah that was my first thought.....but then an alternate caption came to mind: His friends dared him to light a fart - but then they gasped in horror when he accidentally let a turd slip out.

Socrates, i love your latest batch - especially the sand scultures! the french fries + ketchup one i saw from something my wife sent me - from a what do artists do if given wire site - here's the one i liked the most from there:

yup - that's what i remember most about corps teachings - LCM on a rampage about something. Often a social commentary or pop culture critique. 2 statements from him that still stand out in my mind. calling Tina Turner a wrinkle in high heels and referring to the athletes in Special Olympics as freaks of nature....yeah, the latter one especially so - since we're very proud parents of a young lady with down syndrome - she swims like a fish and has a bunch of Special Olympic medals to prove it! As for a smattering of scholarly details [if you want to call them that] of the Bible text - there was always Wal+er C*mmin teachings. His teachings were generously seasoned with references to PFAL and homages to vp. It was like having vp teaching vicariously through wally in this our day and time and hour.....why, there were many times when God would make it snow right there on the PA system just to give us a sign ..........that someone had left one of the Chapel windows open.....dang, winters are cold in Rome City, Indiana!

i voted "not sure" ....which i'll explain in a minute....but first - i got a kick out of these posts: that's a great story - funny and yet quite a sobering thought too hmmmm....don't think i buy into vp's idea of born again anymore SoCrates, a sharp post there for sure....thanks......makes me wonder if it was the other way around with vp - the tongues being counterfeit but the handling of snakes was the real thing. Maybe that's where he got his snake oil. ~~ now the reason i voted "not sure" has more to do with my personal belief system. Often there's times that i'm not even sure if i'm born again.....and i sometimes feel that maybe a shadow of doubt about our future state may be there for a purpose - maybe as a reason to avoid temptation and as a deterrent to acts of evil... ...i just don't think it's spiritually healthy to be so overconfident in one's salvation as exemplified in vp's life and teachings. all it looks like to me is that it gave him a license to do whatever the he11 he wanted to......it's a good fit though, if you happen to be a sociopath.

i chose ...some of the other choices would work too

i chose and that pretty much sums up my criterion for determining the value of ANYTHING his said. nice poll, WordWolf.

fyi - vp did that same teaching for years....until someone like LCM responded to his invitation.

you could always try a different approach....like crafting a long detailed post analyzing the insults, names and credibility challenges thrown at you - and at the very end you slip in one or two points like "....oh by the way, PFAL sucks and vp was full of chit." .....oh wait - i've already tried that....never mind.

great posts Penworks! i'll add that "Religious Literacy" book to my list of must-read along with some others you mentioned in the front page article. and for the record i just want to add i really appreciate not only your input here but the that of other folks who contribute thought provoking ideas which does more than open up some new vistas in understanding - it is sort of a goad to hone one's analytical skills. ....in some respects coming to Grease Spot has had a major impact on what i believe....not only in questioning every aspect of PFAL and the whole TWI lifestyle/mindset but even going deeper to perhaps the very core of my belief system.....maybe some would consider it "damaged faith" but i guess i've gotten down to the essence of what makes by "faith" [or whatever you want to call it] tick. it's really just a return to my childhood "faith" - with a love and awe that i held for science and discovering all about this world of ours - there was some kind of reasoning in my head that the God my parents and church referred to truly existed and was responsible for all that.

that reminds me of the eternity cologne slogan "i don't know where you end and i begin" ....now there was an enterprising person - instead of complaining about multiple sources quotes all run together - they just made an ad campaign out of it.