T-Bone

mmmmmmm…yes…this post has been stuck in the back of my head for a while…must have been something subliminal about it – because I went back and started re-reading the first few pages of this thread…then another song popped into my head...I think an alternate title for this thread could be "will it go round in circles"

I find the mental and emotional factors behind all that a fascinating study

Oh yeah forgot about that security leak... hmmmm devil spirits are into plagiarism too... Well if you’re gonna throw in Geer - I think Stallone ought to get all-out-Rambo on their a$$

oh I'm sorry...I assumed LCM stole it from "Staying Alive"...my bad...I must have been thinking "like father in the turd, like son" ya know, passing on the mantle of plagiarism and all. …so let’s see how did those unbelievers steal it from LCM?...internet says “Staying Alive” was directed, co-produced and co-written by Sylvester Stallone…so Stallone must have been to the ROA to see the “earlier” production of AOS…oh yeah, another one of those celebrities-who-almost-took-PFAL rumors…wonder if LCM ever confronted Stallone on his thievery…might have been a good fight like “Rocky III” …LCM in the role of Thunderlips (that was played by Hulk Hogan)…”the ultimate cult-leader versus the ultimate meatball.”

If wierwille had hidden anything in PFAL I tend to think it was that he was a “good” con-artist…and so really the greatest secret in way-world today is that wierwille was full of $hit For any folks interested in what’s really hidden in PFAL you might want to check out this thread: the subtle thread which runs throughout PFAL

there is an art to selling snake oil...it's basically the art of selling nonsense...this post is just for fun...enjoy...

i love that...and here's a rendition by Morgan James

...and now presenting the art of selling nonsense:

I thought the “original” was much better ( “Staying Alive”)... ....seriously, it’s obvious to see where AOS derived its devilish imagery from....it is interesting to note a correlation of the guys who played the lead characters in “Staying Alive” and AOS: Travolta is big into Scientology and LCM was top dawg in wierwille’s cult....are we “clear” on that now?

Bible fans please take note: Exodus 7:1 says The Lord made Moses like God to Pharaoh NOT to Israel. Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet....Exodus 7:1 NIV

Penguin2, your post resonates with me on many of your points! I think the corps program did a “great “ job of typecasting…pigeonholing people…regardless of the individual’s strengths and weaknesses…the way corps program was a glorified indoctrination process that homogenized folks into a lean mean PFAL-sales and support machine. I never considered myself to be the front-man leadership type according to TWI’s standards…before or after TWI involvement…I’m more of the support or project management type…I think some of the corps I knew just got it in their heads that they went through the corps program so they felt they earned the right to lead others – and more often than not, the gung-ho types led like a bull in a china closet…using more force than finesse. Yeah I like your “ruts in the brain” phrase…there oughta be a commercial “friend, do you suffer from brain-ruts?” and then cue up the prescription Unrutify ( I get a kick out of some of the names they come up with for prescriptions – like Abilify – I think it sounds like something embarrassing as in “when the teacher told me my son said he learned all those bad words from me I was so abilified!”)… …I know what you mean about getting away from KJV – I would get PFAL-pop-ups when reading certain parts – remembering what wierwille said about it. Like you said reevaluating is important. And I think a good follow-up to that is reorganize or reconfigure. I have quite a few translations in my modest library along with commentaries and bible studies. Seems to work for me anyway – same for physical surroundings. Sometimes I reorganize the garage, change up tool bags or what hand tools I carry to work. I don’t know why – but changing things up is fun and sometimes gets me to tackle a familiar problem in a new way.

Good idea...I just started reading another techno-thriller by submarine expert DiMecurio “Attack of the Seawolf”.... anchors aweigh Grease Spotters !

It seems odd to me then - that you would ever complain (as you did in a previous post - see quote below) about Grease Spotters pointing out that often your words do NOT line up with your actions - - i.e. the disparity between your claims of answering questions relevant to the topic / providing proofs for your arguments - compared to your typical evasive actions and trying to shift the focus of the discussion.

Mike: You all are bound and determined to reject, pick apart, deride, mock, and DISOBEY any directive or plan of action my proof points to. T-Bone: But you haven’t shown any proofs yet == == == == Mike: Another proof I’ve discussed much here is this: How will the genuine Christ Jesus PROVE to you who he says he is at the gathering together? T-Bone: Christ won't have to prove anything; I think the experience itself will make it self-evident – as I Corinthians 13:12 NIV states: For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

That sounds like someone with crazy intentions....loco-motive

So ...can you quote here one passage or section that you think is God-breathed?

There’s been two trains of thought on this thread and unfortunately someone has a one-track mind. When So_crates started this thread I was expecting Mike to present a thesis - arguments or proofs that PFAL is God-breathed. But as WordWolf predicted on page 2 – this was not going to happen: Though some posters have tried to keep him on the thesis track by asking pointed questions – instead Mike has once again continued on a pre-existing line of thought – the manifesto track – just declaring his intentions, motives and views – and as such no arguments or proofs needed…I’m tempted to say this thread has been derailed from So_crates’ intended course…but still I always appreciate the clarity and perspectives Grease Spotters bring to bear on all things related to wierwille doctrine and practice. All aboard ! Next stop - who knows?!?!

I mentioned this PFAL book quote earlier in the thread but I pointed out a different aspect of it – at least what it seems to suggest to me (see my quote below) – that at least some of wierwille’s writings were God-breathed - since he omits the phrase “not all that _ _ _ _ _ said will necessarily be God-breathed” in reference to the works of other authors – it looks like he is representing himself as a cut above the rest…I dunno…looked to me like another one of wierwille’s subtle suggestions that he was someone great As an aside on the term “God-breathed” in general: I’ve mentioned in a previous post that how I understand “God-breathed” May differ from how some other folks see it - but I will say this the phrase does seem to place a unique status on scripture as perhaps having the supreme authority for the Christian faith. Not to stray too far off topic - but I did get into there being more than one way to interpret scripture in “Concerning the Bible” a doctrinal thread by yours truly a former fundamentalist - and some Christians might find a quote from CS Lewis in my post quite startling to say the least... But I think a much more often used term by wierwille as well as other preachers is the term “rightly divided “ which often is used to convey the idea that they have correctly interpreted the passage. “Rightly divided” is another unique phrase in scripture which fascinates me - and what little I’ve looked into the Greek and some commentaries on it - it may say more about being competent and honest in handling the scriptures rather than it being a claim you’ve cornered the market on truth.

Mike: T-Bone, No I don't want to be identified with someone who is like you describe. No one would. I’m not sure at all that your description fits VPW. Along with the Pure Evil model the prevails here goes the relatively uncontested notion that the frequency and intensity of the depravity were of the highest nature. I don’t believe evil is that efficient. It gts sloppy and over plays it’s hand all the time in my experience. T-Bone: Perhaps if you went through the corps program you would have seen a whole other side of wierwille: witnessed the indoctrination process of his twisted-teachings for the corps program....witnessed the “sloppy” nature of his licentious lifestyle…as he let his guard down around “his kids”…drinking and smoking like it was going out of style…witnessed his inappropriate behavior and teaching methods around adults and teens…or worse yet, what if you were one of the women sexually victimized by wierwille...I can't imagine you still having such a high opinion of him. yes, then maybe you’d be satisfied to see that evil is NOT THAT efficient, after all. If wierwille carried on like that to the general public he’d have totally blown his persona of “the man of god”. You’re closer to the truth than you think - hypocrites can only maintain their cloak of respectability for so long – Jesus pointed that out: Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others…Matthew 23: 1-7 NIV == == == == Mike: So, I expect a degree of exaggeration in reports of evil. I came from a Catholic where I was steeped in analysis of sin intensity. I don’t want to severely bias my “fruit data” with your “fruit data.” I trust the “fruit data” I see from PFAL I see in my own life much more than I trust the collective sight of those here to look inside someone else’s’ life for “fruit data.” T-Bone: I don’t think you understand Jesus’ criteria for judging fruit; Jesus never instructed us to pick and choose fruit that appeals to us…he never portrayed that a life of discernment was like going to a farmer's market and seeing which fruit is ripe, which fruit we prefer - his instructions regard how to determine if a tree (a person) is good or evil...and he never said anything about trying to look INSIDE someone else’s life for “fruit data”…Jesus said a bad tree is recognized by its fruit…an evil man brings evil things OUT of the evil stored up inside him - in other words, it's something we can SEE - it's not something hidden from view: 33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”…Matthew 12: 33-37 NIV

Mike are you really sure you want to be identified with an unrepentant and devious sinner like wierwille? It seems like you expend more energy to defend his licentious lifestyle here and on other threads than you do in logical arguments over a doctrinal issue. And that makes it look like you have no other basis for your viewpoint other than “doctor taught this and that settles it”. wierwille never gave any indication of repentance to all those he victimized. Did he ever apologize and offer to set things right to those he sexually molested, to those who he used every form of coercion and manipulation to silence them from speaking out about what he did to them, to those he stole from by his plagiarism? you talk of separating the fruit. what Jesus said in Matthew 7:15-20 was that we will know what type of tree it is by its fruit; that’s how we’re to be on the lookout for false prophets…Jesus never advised us to look for any fruit that is redeemable from a bad tree: 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them….Matthew 7:15-20 I’m sorry to sound like a broken record but whenever you get into your defensive mode for wierwille I cannot in good conscience stand by while another coat of paint is applied to that whitewashed sepulcher. And as a Christian I feel duty-bound to warn others of this treacherous deception. I really try to give you the benefit of a doubt that this is not your intention (to be deceptive) , that you are merely deceived yourself. But you seem so sincere and persistent in your defense of wierwille that I sometimes wonder if that sincerity is just an act – I mean, to me it seems so mind-boggling that anyone in their right mind would defend such a consummate hypocrite, liar, thief, plagiarist, and sexual predator. The Bible does not mince words about false prophets and false teachers; we are never instructed to look for the good in their teachings: But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. 12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish. 13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”…II Peter 2: 1-22 NIV

ok - thanks for letting me know, Mike.

I suppose one can assume “mastery” of wierwille’s writings can be the same as “mastering” the KJV Bible if one accepts wierwille’s twisted scheme of interpretation…and I suppose if one accepted the meaning of love as defined by a consummate hypocrite, liar, thief, plagiarist, and sexual predator like wierwille – then one could assume they are applying their mastery of his writings in love. To answer this question of Mike’s “Do you know anyone else who heard an audible promise from God to get taught directly by God?” I will need some time to compile a list of the many charlatans who have misled followers by pretending to have a hotline to God.

double post

Indeed !!!!! Skyrider, I think you always do a great job of revealing and articulating the subliminal factors of a cult’s control. “...So often are overlooked...” you say - from my own experience and even from where I am now looking back - - I was not even aware or their reality or powerful influence...maybe like gravity...whether or not you’re aware of it - there’s so many degrees of effort you have to put forth to resist its pull on you: get up from a chair, climb several flights of stairs, make a jump shot, carry heavy suitcases into an airport. I think it takes an enormous effort for anyone to escape the gravitational field of a cult.

Hey guys, some beautiful machines! So distinctive! Nowadays a lot of vehicles look alike to me. Soul Makossa, I’ve found you !!!!!! 1967 Chevy Malibu