T-Bone

Great post Annio !!! Closure: a sense of resolution or conclusion at the end of a work or project; a feeling that an emotional or traumatic experience has been resolved; an often comforting or satisfying sense of finality…I don’t know if typical closure is possible on some things that happen to us…but I think there may be some sense of bittersweet triumph when we repurpose our “scar tissue” to warn others or help others recover from a similar experience…and I am sure the courageous way you (and others) have shared of your experiences continues to frustrate the hell out of the modus operandi of sexual predators.

I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs and staff). Undercurrent: an underlying feeling or influence, especially one that is contrary to the prevailing atmosphere and is not expressed openly; a current of water below the surface and moving in a different direction from any surface current…teachings available to the general public were seemingly benign promoting study of the Bible, offering keys to overcoming adversity and finding fulfilment in life. All that supposedly wholesome sounding Bible stuff on the surface hides the undertow. You'll find it's all about wierwille's skewed interpretation of the Bible commingled with lies... Your hopes and dreams become entangled with the busy work of the ministry. Any false sense of happiness and fulfillment really depends on how much you commit to an organization. Christian, beware these are treacherous waters! The deeper you go the more you find wierwille’s influence leading you further and further away from the simple and honest life of a Christian. Wierwille was like Captain Nemo and my experience in TWI was like twenty thousand (or more) lies under the sea.

I think this thread is also another reminder to those who have already been seduced by TWI and may feel they have some vague inkling they have been duped. I left in 86’ and looking back on my somewhat lengthy exit experience – I’ve come to the conclusion my decision to leave was ultimately more about the methods of TWI to shore up their doctrine and practices rather than about any particular doctrine itself. Rocky and Word Wolf have made excellent points about regret; we are only human – imperfect and unfortunately without a time machine – so we can’t go back and re-do situations where we screwed up, failed or were taken advantage of by others. Rather, I believe being human and imperfect we are nonetheless endowed by our Creator with some kind of “indomitable machine” that enables us to bounce back from failures and overcome obstacles. Regret is to feel sad, repentant, or disappointed over something that has happened or been done, especially a loss or missed opportunity; to feel sorry or unhappy about something you did or were unable to do…There will always be regrets - - but if we never felt sad, repentant or disappointed over something that happened where would the impetus come from to decide to change our course of action? I also tend to think the stronger the regret, the stronger is the stimulus that drives us to change something. We may not yet know what that something is – but we still may find that the gears are already in motion in our head – to question, to challenge, to modify how we look at something. After a while – I think you may find the baby steps you’ve taken and what you’ve achieved and have to be thankful for will by far outweigh the regrets. I said leaving TWI was a long and slow process for me. It was a series of baby steps. Doing something – even something small - is better than doing nothing. Back then there was no Grease Spot …Penworks had not yet written “Undertow”. I did my own research on doctrine and practice – even looked at books outside of those promoted by TWI, did a lot of thinking…questioning…challenging… talking to others who had left TWI or were thinking about leaving. I Thessalonians 5:21 was my motto during these baby steps times “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good”. You may want to spend more effort in scrutinizing the methods and practices of TWI rather than fretting over a particular doctrine. In other words, look at how they reinforced their teachings and way of doing things. Perhaps you'll notice some of the hindrances they've put in place to frustrate clear or critical thinking. "Prove all things" applies to methods and practices too. In the end, maybe regrets can be just one chapter in the book of your life – a chapter that is a lot shorter than the chapters on baby steps and the chapter on what you’re grateful for. So dear TWI follower, what is stopping you from considering the ideas on this thread? here's Penworks' book "Undertow"

Choose freedom aplenty in 2020.

Ahhhh…such is life in a hamster-wheel: hamster-wheel: Noun. (plural hamster wheels) A circular cage for a hamster or other small rodent, which rotates vertically as the animal runs at the bottom. (figuratively, by extension) A monotonous, repetitive, unfulfilling activity, especially one in which no progress is achieved.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Ghosted !!! Thanks for sharing your story. Enjoy your visit here. I was in Family Corps 11 and know firsthand how much bondage and stress all that stuff can put on someone – kids as well as adults. Grease Spot is great for encouraging freedom of thought and developing critical thinking skills.

Hi Zanezim (Alan) and welcome to Grease Spot ! I can relate to your post – having similar feelings myself. It’s something I think we all can relate to – since we are social creatures. I think there’s an assortment of social ties – some good…some not so good. I still miss the genuine love I experienced with some folks when I was in TWI. What I don’t miss are any of the artificial connections that were generated/manipulated by TWI top leadership (maybe something along the lines of a weird “collective consciousness” or group-think…a fabricated social cohesion if you will…I don’t know) - - this was by design - as a means of keeping us in the group! collective consciousness definition Grease Spot topic on social cohesion in TWI Anyway, glad to see you here and hope your journey will continue to fill that void with some healing…and new relationships as well as possibly rekindle some old ones that you miss.

you've got that right !!!!

Running a Twig and believing the bull$hit that TWI fed us – something to the effect that the Jonestown tragedy was actually a government conspiracy operation to induce fear of cults.

I vaguely remember a rewrite of the 12 days of Christmas - it became the 12 days of the class...it went something like: on the first day of the class my father showed to me believing equals receiving disclaimer - I don't remember exactly how it went or the main topic of each day/session...guess that's a good thing

On the flip side of learning another language – what Twinky and Waysider have said made me think of the opposite and bewildering effect that cult jargon may have on one’s understanding of the situation they’re in. Cult jargon can be a uniquely obfuscating language indeed. In my case I did not realize I was in a cult. I also like what Amber said in the video - - along the lines of when someone comes along and presents a new or different way of seeing something we thought we knew all about. That resonates with my Grease Spot experience – GS is a great asset that has always helped me cut through the cult jargon and group-think of TWI.

thanks for starting this thread – great input by all…lots to think about. I think there is a lot to what was said in the Daily Stoic you referenced – “The Stoics were right. We have no idea what life has in store for us or what it is saving us for—even as it kicks our foot and breaks our hearts. Whatever we are going through, whatever is happening to us, we must know that: we are where we are supposed to be right now. How’s that? Because we can make it be where we are supposed to be. By the actions we take and the choices we make.” (from Daily Stoic) I tend to look at life as a journey – and in a combination of experiences - - with people and situations (both good and bad) – and with hopes, desires and prayer – try to map out the way I should go. Since I left TWI, I feel like I’m more in the driver’s seat - instead of thinking like I have to be in the center of God’s will (I’m of the opinion God’s sovereign will is something known only to God); What I’m talking about here is more along the lines of God’s general will already expressed in Scripture – do good, love thy neighbor, be honest, etc.). The criteria for reference points on my map usually have some moral or personal consideration. Is this job I’m considering legitimate? Will it be a good move for my family too? Being in the driver’s seat means being aware of options and the responsibility and impact of the actions I take and choices I make. That not only includes learning from my mistakes, failures, good and bad experiences – but always developing critical thinking /good judgment skills. where am I supposed to be? Maybe it's also asking what do I think I am supposed to be at this point in time on my journey? What have I become? What am I becoming? Concerning God’s sovereign will - it looks at the bigger picture (whatever you can gather – especially as you broaden your horizons) – perhaps this goes along with the other thing of interconnectedness with others (that Rocky referred to in another post): When I think of the Lord’s Prayer “thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” – I don’t think that is supposed to be an empty-headed desire; I think it goes deep into our makeup – of all that we are as a person - for us to acknowledge God’s sovereignty. Granted it probably refers to a future time – when God’s sovereign will becomes evident – but I wonder if it also has an eye on the short term – God’s will being worked out - in part anyway - on earth in the here and now – that recognizes the interconnectedness of us all.

an alternate song

Skyrider, good point on wierwille actually designing a follow-ship rather than a leadership program. So true! If a leader is supposed to have the vision for the direction of a group – wierwille certainly had that – but I think it was along the lines of everyone under his thumb doing it his way. His vision was a grand delusion of course. Rocky, thanks for the link to that article; some great points from it: “A sense of belonging is a human need, just like the need for food and shelter. Feeling that you belong is most important in seeing value in life and in coping with intensely painful emotions. Some find belonging in a church, some with friends, some with family, and some on Twitter or other social media. Some see themselves as connected only to one or two people. Others believe and feel a connection to all people the world over, to humanity… …A sense of belonging to a greater community improves your motivation, health, and happiness. When you see your connection to others, you know that all people struggle and have difficult times. You are not alone. There is comfort in that knowledge…One way to work on increasing your sense of belonging is to look for ways you are similar with others instead of focusing on ways you are different…Another way to build your own sense of belonging is to work on acceptance of others. To accept others and views that are not the same as yours may require that you open your thoughts to the idea that there is value in everyone's thinking…” from Psychology Today article As the article indicates, our sense of belonging can be fulfilled in various ways. I can see how TWI and any controlling cult for that matter – can take advantage of that. Initially, I joined because it appeared to me this group had all the answers to any struggles in life. But over time my autonomy was being chipped away – as I felt more and more pressured through groupthink and browbeating to accept TWI’s perspective and solutions for any struggles. Think about all those claims on the back of the PFAL class signup card – if you wanted more harmony in the home, or to increase your prosperity or whatever they listed – you come to find out sometime later after taking the class, they were just unsubstantiated claims and how ineffective and frustrating their solutions proved to be. And not just life struggles but stupid ridiculous time-wasting struggles – like having a hard time trying to get another PFAL class together. TWI and offshoots appeal to one’s sense of belonging but over time start encroaching on one’s boundaries and self-governance; within the group one finds only a certain view is acceptable and only a certain class of people are acceptable – those in good standing with their group. They sort of turn around one's sense of belonging - almost like saying "now you belong to us." yeeeeccchhh ! well said, Skyrider - subdued.

Maybe the “Trust-o-Meter” is another name for critical thinking skills. I think it might be like a muscle…while in TWI, critical thinking skills are not something one is encouraged to develop…so the muscle atrophies. Grease Spot is a great place to get various points of view…I believe humility is an important element too – and since I don’t know it all, it pays to check out what others have to say. It would be impossible to make a 3-D rendering of an object if all I had was my one perspective. What’s behind it? What’s on the side? And if others had just the same perspective as my frontal view that wouldn’t help to complete the rendering. And perhaps critical and creative thinking go hand in hand. I’ve learned a lot more about Bible stuff after I left TWI – reading and listening to other sources – analyzing – and then seeing various options on how I can apply stuff I learned. keep on with the keeping on love & peace T-Bone

We watched the final episode last night too. I was shocked at the number of folks that raised their hands when asked if they knew someone who was sexually abused in Scientology…I think the illicit motives for sex, money and power are (or is )the ubiquitous trinity found in many abusive cults. Interesting article on this undesirable dark triad

So has JAL ever addressed or exposed the hypocrisy of wierwille? Seriously – I’m just asking anyone familiar with his body of work…I mean whatever supposed “gold” he got out of wierwille/TWI and whatever “qualifications” or “credentials” he got from them might have an insidious quality to it…like picking up a chunk of graphite that was blown out of the Chernobyl reactor disaster…I mean think about Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”

As a representative of an offshoot, JAL epitomizes the logical output of TWI – a “ministry” which wierwille himself derived – like some parasitic insect…by plagiarizing, hijacking, and using basic-megalomaniac-bossy-pants-feats-of abuse, shoved an insidious idea down the throats of anyone who would listen; this idea was the key element in any sales pitch promoting TWI…the idea being that wierwille/TWI had cornered the market on correctly interpreting the Bible. This insidious idea continued with JAL – as evident in an early letter from him suggesting his group - leaving the drudgery of servitude to TWI was like the Hebrews of old escaping the bondage of Egypt with all their gold. In my opinion, JAL is more along the lines of a motivational speaker…a salesman. What is he selling? Having been through way corps training I remember much of it was geared to developing myself as first a good salesman and then learning to manage those who I have motivated to get or stay involved with TWI.

I remember one of the earliest descriptions given by wierwille was in PFAL. Something along the lines of (with the exceptions of things like figures of speech) we were to take the Bible as literally true – with a mathematically exactness and scientific precision – his words at one point in the class. What wierwille pushed was basically a Fundamentalist type view of the Bible – however it continually grew to an increasingly wierwille-centric interpretation. I think over time how TWI defined a believer morphed on an ad hoc basis – whatever was needed to focus the mindset of the masses. Folks here have occasionally quoted an old TWI statement that clearly lays out the fundamental characteristics of a believer: "The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God." So, on the flip side – I would say an unbeliever is one who does not adhere to any of the above things I mentioned. My mindset when I was involved with TWI was as follows: If you do not stand with God's ministry which has more of the rightly divided word than anyone else, you are an unbeliever

Like Java Jane said - if you subscribe to TWI’s definition then I too am an unbeliever. However, I’ve taken up a more active role in my evolving belief system. I look at life as a journey. Raised Roman Catholic but at a critical juncture in my young life I chose to join TWI. Initially, I felt I was in the driver’s seat. But after years and years of programs, meetings, adopting a certain mindset and thinking I was serving God – most of my “motoring” skills took a back seat. If life is a journey - then this portion of the trip I was taken for a ride. Why did I leave TWI? Maybe it was something like watching a train wreck in slow-motion…me slowly coming to the realization that there was something morally wrong with the whole thing. My beef is not over theology or some particular doctrine. I mean, if you look at the Pharisees in Jesus’ day – they may have had a tight theological system (whatever that is) but morally there was such dark overgrown jungle-like stain on their hearts that they often received Jesus’ most vehement criticism. I would describe myself as a believer – with the Bible and the basics of Christianity as part of my moral compass on this journey of faith.

Excellent points Skyrider…the word “parasite” came to mind…I firmly believe wierwille/TWI/PFAL etc. are parasitic in nature…from the internet: 1. an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense. "the parasite attaches itself to the mouths of fishes" · 2. derogatory a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return. "the capitalist is really a parasite on the workers" My involvement with TWI was an exercise in how to install a filter on your perception. Stick with them long enough and you only see what they want you to see. That’s the parasite’s cloaking device.

Hmmmm… ...impossible to have a meaningful conversation with me because I do not conform to your idea of what’s normal. Perhaps you’re right.

I watched “The Usual Suspects” again recently - and this time I was amazed by another great trick Verbal (Kaizer) was able to pull off; by his own deceitful narrative of past events Verbal manipulated the detective to think another member of their small band of criminals - Keaton (played by Gabriel Byrne) was actually Kaizer Soze. In his first post on this thread Skyrider talked about the subterfuge agenda hidden in PFAL , Defeating the Adversary class ...and I think it goes beyond that - into a deep level of deception sewn into the very fabric of a certain frame of thought - the TWI mindset - this acts like a blinders on a horse, you look at only what they direct you to look at. Like the character Verbal redirecting the detective’s attention - essentially shifting the blame off himself - wierwille, craig and other well trained illusionists were adept at avoidance, minimizing and blame shifting. If you had a problem with something they said or did or even an issue with a policy or practice - it was because YOU are walking in the flesh...going by your 5 senses ...letting the devilish or worldly influence of family/friends or the church you grew up in sway you...or they’d use some other intentionally obfuscating tactic...anything to get you to sever ties with the real world and your own better judgment. So-called benefits of the class tended to be nullified by one’s continued commitment to the principles of the class. The supposed development of more harmony in the home went out the window many times when a gung ho grad really took a stand on “the word” - some families and marriages suffered and split up...yeah like Kaizer Soze , manipulative cults like TWI always make greater and greater demands on your commitment and yet any familial, financial or social problems or damage caused by your “stand” are attributed to the world trying to hold you back...remember “when it comes to the word I have no friends. It’s “the word” vs the world”...yeeeccchhhh! Yeah I think one of the greatest lies by manipulators like wierwille and craig was that false teachers / wolves / predators did not exist in TWI.

I think something happened to generate a narrative...granted, the narrative may be derivative, scientifically or historically inaccurate but nonetheless it is a story of what happened as interpreted through a Hebrew viewpoint.

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