T-Bone

Being contentious, difficult and especially maligning other Christian groups is exactly what wierwille did to distinguish and separate The Way International from all other Christian groups. I’ve been in meetings where wierwille would get into his anti-Trinity rant and say stuff along the lines of wrong-seed are promoting the Trinity and to really believe in the Trinity you have to be possessed…As Skyrider said, TWI is a cult - not because of its beliefs, but because of its methods…There was no debating the Trinity – strict obedience to wierwille’s leadership was expected and enforced by sowing the fear of following wrong seed or risking devil-possession. Thinking about that now, I don’t think it was ever really a concern over “right doctrine” but was just another method of closing the ranks – to keep TWI followers united against other Christian groups…wierwille’s “Why Division?” in The New Dynamic Church book seems like some great rah-rah-let’s-go-team rhetoric – but I tend to think many of us who were caught up in the spiritual elitism of TWI, assumed we were the only “team” that really counted – we were the true Church with more of the rightly-divided-Word than anyone else…teachings on “the household” had a similar agenda – to immerse us more deeply in commitment to the organization but also to further isolate us – set us further apart from other Christians and even other grads of PFAL who didn’t get that involved with TWI…I began to realize how pervasive this “spiritual hierarchy” was shortly after I left TWI when I heard of Chris G’s comment about those who left, saying “now is the fat being trimmed from the body of Christ.”

thanks, Rubina

When I was a little boy my aunt saw that I wasn’t spitting out the watermelon seeds and told me that a watermelon would grow in my tummy…if my aunt were alive today and could see my big fat gut she’d probably say “see, what did I tell you?”

Thanks, Waysider - that makes sense.

I clicked on the bookstore ( TWI bookstore and research ) and noticed that Power For Abundant Living (the orange book) is NOT listed there…guess I never got the memo on this omission in the lineup LOL - was this discussed before on Grease Spot?

Well at least they’re not wrong seed...but give them time - I bet some of them will be raisin Cain.

Speaking of barbaric…in less sophisticated times both garlic and onions were believed by some to ward off evil spirits, demons, werewolves and vampires (I wonder if that was good against bloodsucking cult leaders too)…hmmmmm – maybe there was a good reason why TWI banned garlic and onions. see Garlic, demons, werewolves, vampires link see the family of onions link

I agree - hopefully he's not gone for good.

If I’m not mistaken wierwille had a similar pet peeve about garlic…that’s too bad – considering all the natural benefits of garlic and onion – a natural antibiotic, a blood-cleanser, natural anti-fungal & antibacterial ( also see - Huff Post article )…I’ve had pneumonia a few times and have to watch out for some cold or flu virus I catch developing into bronchitis. Nowadays, it’s usually a trip to the doc if I have a lot of trouble getting over it; but in health battles of this nature I also always go with some old family remedy – eating garlic and onion – plain or in a salad or some meal…at the top of my first grocery list when the pandemic started was a bunch of garlic and onions.

way back when, some of us were young and naïve – and on top of that - one of the ripple effects of PFAL was grads continuing to trust wierwille and anyone else associated with his “ministry” – even other believers...maybe this TWI-mindset was considered a shortcut or the only "litmus test" needed– so no need for vetting or fact-checking a story if it came from a believer. “Many people base their beliefs in large part on what they see as information from trusted sources.” from page 20 of Escaping the Rabbit Hole by Mick West

tell me about it...I worked the head table for a block...they got coffee...steak...deserts. we had a percolator coffee pot in our room...and occasionally got "care packages" from my parents loaded with snacks and other goodies.

No kidding, Waysider and Watered Garden ! And it’s not like we had a choice either or that there were menu options…and God forbid you complained about it…I wonder if there’s still some Rome City alumni who think it was great…like Dana Carvey’s old coot character on SNL – “that’s the way it was and we liked it!” That's the way it was - and we liked it

At Rome City we had pizza with chicken gizzards

Peddling or selling is to offer something in exchange for money or something else of value; it can also mean to persuade someone of the merits of something; promoting an acceptance of a belief, idea or set of ideas; to persuade someone of the value or desirability of something ( see here ) I found the book "Judaism--Revelation of Moses Or Religion of Men?" by Philip Neal on the same website I found the other books from Waxit’s “reading assignments” – and like the other books, the website allows you to read this book online - here Philip Neal's book online After checking out some of the chapters I would say the author definitely exhibits a strong bias while examining Judaism and is unabashedly trying to sell (or persuade) readers on a number of ideas – one of which is that the author has “read properly” Acts 10 ( I referred to Acts 10 much earlier on this thread - here )– as Philip Neal states here: “Obviously, too many assume that the apostle Peter's vision in Acts 10 represents a reversal of God's laws prohibiting unclean meats. However, nowhere in the passage is it ever suggested that God had cleansed unclean meats. Rather, this is something “read into” the section by those with a predisposition against God's laws. When the passage is read properly, it becomes obvious that Peter's vision in no way authorized a change in the laws of clean and unclean meats. In fact, Peter's vision had nothing at all to do with clean and unclean meats.” from appendix 4 of Neal's book On the contrary, I think it’s obvious that Acts 10 involves a lot more than just putting an end to the Old Testament dietary restrictions – for in making such changes to the law, God made it possible for the church to unite both Jew and Gentile through the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ. See Acts 10 in NASB Thus to accomplish this unity it was necessary to abolish the ceremonial laws and sacrifices that distinguished the Jews as distinct and separated from the Gentiles – as mentioned in Ephesians: “ Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:11-22 NASB Back then – as today there are those who insist it’s necessary to adopt the law of Moses...one such group were Judaizers. They were "Christians who teach it is necessary to adopt Jewish customs and practices, especially those found in the Law of Moses, to be saved. The term is derived from the Koine Greek word Ἰουδαΐζειν (Ioudaizein), used once in the Greek New Testament (Galatians 2:14),when Paul publicly challenges Peter for compelling Gentile converts to Early Christianity to "judaize".This episode is known as the incident at Antioch. This term includes groups who claim the necessity of continued obedience to the Law of Moses found in the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) for gentiles.Members of such groups dispute the label because "Judaizers" is typically used as a pejorative." See Wikipedia Judaizers ....a couple of pertinent references are in Acts 15 and Galatians 2 ... Insistence on the necessity of following the ceremonial laws and sacrifices of the Old Testament trivializes the comprehensive sacrificial work of Jesus Christ –and seems to be an effort to drive a wedge between those whom God has united – now referred to as the church.

yup - I feel the same way - a lot of missed opportunities

Thanks, Rocky - but I didn't say that to fish for a compliment - if anything, once I'm done with my little soapbox I do tend to follow suit.

Thanks for that TED talk, Rocky…while watching it I tried to imagine the doctrinal forum in a Zoom meeting format. On a side note I think you, WordWolf and Twinky tend to be arbitrators and facilitators in a discussion – often very needful “jobs” in doctrinal..

Nice post, Twinky. Speaking of happy days, you made me recall the in-rez time (our 2nd year in-residence) Tonto and I and two other couples got together in a lounge area by our hall. We were going to play Trivial Pursuit and so we split up into 2 teams – men vs women. We fellas did okay in a few of the categories and I anticipated our team would kill it when we got to the Sports and Leisure – since one of the guys was our not-so-hidden ace in the hole big sports fan – which everyone knew. Well…uhm…never underestimate the boundless determination of women unafraid to take a stab at things with a wild-a$$ guess. The women slaughtered us but it was so funny to witness with each win of theirs – our big sports fan guy would have a meltdown “I don’t believe this…this is unbelieveable…ahhhh they're just killing us!!!” Watching his reaction was the most entertaining part of the game - and something Tonto and I still laugh about to this day.

Beautiful - I really enjoyed that - thanks for posting, Twinky !

Technically, when you quoted a passage and then placed within it “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” YOU are the one adding to the Bible. Inserting that parenthetical phrase as you did is a pretentious way to try and validate your point of view – and is more or less equivalent to just saying it out loud. I am sorry but your futile attempts to preach on “no one has the right to add or subtract from the bible verses” are rendered ineffectual by the hypocrisy of you doing just that. It’s not necessary for you to resort to such desperate means to try and get your point across – since you have already succeeded (ages and pages ago ) in making me understand what you are saying – keeping the Sabbath is important to you for whatever pat answers you’ve given – and shy of you telling us more than just some brief personal story of how you’ve come to this position. I’ve got no problem with that – I think it’s wonderful – for you. I also understand you’ve been trying to get me to see and/or agree that keeping the Sabbath is also important for everyone else for whatever reasons you’ve mentioned. That I have a problem with, since you seem to have a tendency to ignore the immediate context of verses, read your Sabbath bias into verses, and collapse contexts (where two or more unrelated verses are treated as if they belonged together). Maybe you didn't mean to come across this way - but your posts give me the idea that you must think you are better or more important than me and have a right to tell me what to do – trying to browbeat me into agreeing with you – attempting to lord it over me. Perhaps I wasn’t clear on something – Jesus Christ is my Lord. And besides that – I think it’s rather presumptuous, arrogant, and egotistical on your part to expect me to simply ignore the plain sense of scripture, logic, personal conscientious beliefs and the spirit of God within. Waxit, - when you said “Whenever is refers to the commandments of God- it goes without saying that it is all the commandments of God including the love commandments and the 10 commandments -they are inter linked- I have been saying this over and over again- it's like talking to a wall” you are also expressing your point of view... You know, I feel like I’m also talking to a wall – since I’ve already offered an explanation at your request - on May 20th you asked and I replied to your request on the same day: And I will leave you with the same sentiment I expressed at the end of my post quoted above: While I don’t see any connection between “the commandments” in John’s epistles and keeping the Sabbath - you are certainly free to think that “the commandments” in the epistles of John are interlinked with keeping the Sabbath.

Funny stuff George & Twinky...I recall installing a security system with a tech from England - he said he wanted to go outside and smoke a fag - meaning have a cigarette.

That’s so funny Skyrider - thanks for posting! Taking your horse name substitution a step further – in the race to captivate people’s souls: And they’re off their rockers right out of the gate - it’s Wierwille’s Snow Job…followed closely in his behind by Twinkle Toes Craig…Critical Mind stumbling out of the gate trying to catch up…Great Fvcking Darkness already hustling for an early lead…from the inside going outside it’s Chris the Bus Driver working hard against Twinkle Toes Craig… Rosie the Racketeer got off to a slow start but she’s now neck and neck with Chris the Bus Driver…moving to the outside it’s Egypt’s Gold followed by Reverends Aplenty…as they pass the quarterly report , Revival & Restoration is working hard to get past Reverends Aplenty and Splinters Galore…they’re moving at a brisk pace all clustered together except for Abundant Sharing and I’m Corps Dammit now lagging way behind…Rosie the Racketeer and Great Fvcking Darkness are still looking strong…with just a forlorn look ahead it’s Rosie the Racketeer and Great Fvcking Darkness, followed by Splinters Galore and Offshoot Yourself in the Foot…as they come down to the wire…oh my God - - it’s Great Fvcking Darkness !

I still have my books - someday if I'm feeling brave and energetic I'll dig into a file box of my way corps stuff in the attic - corpse night teachings, journals, research paper, a copy of my from birth to way corps paper...Don't think I'll ever get rid of that stuff for a lot of complex reasons...I still have a bunch of teaching tapes and way music tapes...teaching tapes I'm not really concerned with - but someday I might transfer way music cassette tapes to a CD or MP3 format....some good stuff there.

(note the British way of spelling "color" in Twinky's post - - I love it !!!!) that's so funny

sounds like a good idea...Tonto and I have several shadow boxes of memorabilia; she has her WOW pin and way corps ID card in hers, I have my WOW pin in mine...those WOW pins have some deep sentimental value to us both since I married my WOW sister -