T-Bone

Skyrider's thread TWI-Servitude got me thinking about the levels, duration and impact of commitment in the various TWI-programs. The following is just mere speculation on my part and it makes me wish there were some sociological studies of TWI-programs...but anyway here goes some things I've wondered about... just thinking out loud, folks: 1. Level of commitment: for programs like WOW, the degree of intensity and amount of difficulty is scaled down proportionately to “accommodate” new recruits while at the same time taking advantage of their new-found enthusiasm; without any surveys or hard data on numbers I venture to say judging on my own experience and initial feelings of excitement (I took the PFAL class in 74 and went out WOW in 75 ) perhaps new PFAL grads riding high on the excitement from the class - usually young, single and no great career yet, are more likely to go out WOW than more seasoned grads - maybe married with kids, own a home have well-established careers - so they couldn't just drop everything and go out WOW - and oddly enough these seasoned grads are the financial backbone of TWI - they sponsor folks they usually make more money than WOWs and corps in secular jobs - and so they proportionately give more to the pseudo-spiritual elite moochers - I mean, the ministry. ...in TWI there's always a push to do more...to take more classes participate in more programs...you've got to grow, grow grow!!!! if you're not growing you're dying...stagnation is anathema... ...another thing... ...and maybe this is not the most accurate way to differentiate the level of commitment for WOW, Fellow-Laborers, etc. compared to the way corps program – but I compare it to the difference between a local militia of citizens in a small community , a volunteer police officer, a volunteer firefighter, etc. compared to enlisting in one of the military branches, becoming a police officer or firefighter in a big city. I tend to think the “social contract” for someone who freely offers to do something is not as binding as when you enlist in a formal institution. You have a lot more freedom in a volunteer-based program – perhaps even some autonomy – because you find you can deviate from the rules or even flat out quit – of course this is all relative to various factors of one's personality – how self-confident one is, how susceptible one is to being guilt-tripped over disobeying rules, how sensitize is one's sense of boundaries being encroached upon, , etc. ...I think people tend to deviate from the rules or flat out quit when there's big disappointment from what one expected of a small potatoes program 2. Duration of commitment: This is kind of related to #1 the level of commitment in that it sets a limit to how long you have to endure the situation. One year is drop in the bucket compared to “a lifetime of Christian service” of the way corps. A definite span of time gives you the advantage of knowing how to pace yourself to sustain your efforts. When I was 18, I got on this kick I would be a pescatarian for a year. My friends all balked at the idea that I would give up meat forever. But I countered with it's only for a year...and I did it – from January 1st 1971 to January 1st 1972 I did not eat any meat products. I loved doing cross-country track in high school – I wasn't the fastest but I had great endurance – I knew how far I had to go and how to pace myself...a funny story though – a few years later I decided to run in the New York City Marathon. I didn't train for it but assumed I was still in pretty good shape by continuing to exercise with my friends – running, weightlifting, taking Taekwondo . Long story short, I only ran 18 miles in the marathon. It wasn't that I couldn't last the whole way physically – there were some aftermath details I had not considered . I took a bus and subway to get to the marathon. I didn't look forward to the long trip home. Also going through my mind was the fact that I had to go to work on Monday as a carpenter's helper – my boss would run me ragged and my legs already felt tired and achy...sheesh - there's a lot more to running 26.2 miles than just running the 26.2 miles!!!!! I'm not saying the WOW commitment was easy but compared to the lifetime commitment you make in the way corps it's a walk in the park...but in my simplistic thinking I always thought going corps was just like WOW only a little more regimented...ok, a lot more regimented...for a little longer length of time...ok, a lot longer length of time...oh ok, until the end to time. Another thing - in the way corps there's mission creep – the constant shift in objectives and it could mean big changes – like a new assignment...again... 3. Impact of commitment: Another sociological study that I would be interested in seeing is how the span of time between graduating from PFAL to going in the way corps program would somehow shape one's leadership style. I first took the class in 74 and went in the way corps program in 84. I know this is purely a subjective viewpoint but by the time I went in the corps I felt that my way of leadership was more laid back than what I had seen in dogmatic way corps still wet behind the ears...but hell, I ain't perfect - so maybe it's one of those you-can't-use-new-indoctrination-tactics-on-old-dogs kind of a thing. ...Maybe this is comparing apples to oranges but I think in general whatever your career is, it's important to pay your dues – to work hard, gain the necessary skills and experience, tough it out through hardships and earn respect and the right to influence others...was going WOW ever a prerequisite of going in the corps? I don't remember. Speaking just from a practical aspect of preparing someone – I think going WOW was good prep for getting a taste of the way corps lifestyle – don't get me wrong I cringe at the thought of both programs now – I'm just thinking pragmatically...and honestly ...what better way is there to find out that a lot of the stuff in PFAL is of no practical use than through your frustrating efforts of putting PFAL's theories and ideas to the acid test on the WOW field...oh, here's a hot tip for ya -when putting the PFAL principles to the test you can't go by your five senses or worldly logic cuz the results of your test could be "misleading" … if I had known that the way corps program was just the nonsense of PFAL as applied to real life situations like in the WOW program and then extrapolated to the Nth degree in the way corps program – (btw, I've always sucked at math )...I probably would never have gone in the corps...so forget what I said about WOW being good prep for the corps program...if as a WOW I would have been honest and clear thinking I probably would never have been interested in wasting anymore of my time. ...yeah I got caught up in all the hype and bull$hit of what TWI leadership told us - that somehow - even though it doesn't look like much - we were doing and accomplishing great things...it's too bad I was one of one of those starry-eyed believers on the WOW field who looked up to way corps like they could do no wrong and had all the answers...sure you could say they were more committed than I was...but to what?!?! - wait – I'll answer that question for you – more committed to a parasitic and controlling cult...more adamant our mission was of the utmost importance...more dogmatic...more indoctrinated...more deceived.

Twinky I'm surprised at you. Is it proper for Brits to stray from the Queen's English and resort to using Southern American English? I trow not ! My apologies to all on this thread – I can't help it if I'm a cheeky monkey.

leadership by example is a double edged sword - when you emulate a good leader you'll probably be successful like them; on the opposite edge - imitating a bad leader you'll tend to have more unfavorable consequences...you hit the nail on the head citing vpw and lcm as your examples to follow...they knew nothing about inspiring others to follow – but they sure knew how to demand folks follow them...that may work as a role model in the military but that's not how you motivate people in the business world or in religious and social settings...when I first arrived at Rome City campus they should have had a huge welcome sign across the front “welcome to the clone factory – where dreams of being a mini-wierwille come true”. Contrary to way corps Nazi boot camp, a few years ago I heard a preacher talk about I Thessalonians 1 on how good leaders are produced. Paul wrote “You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia”. There's several generations illustrated here. Paul and the other leaders with him followed Christ's example of leadership and service...the Thessalonians initially mimicked their good example – and eventually grew to emulate Christ's example...a mentoring program. Then the Thessalonians became the role models in Macedonia and Achaia. don't be so hard on yourself, Twinky - we were all taught wrong...I've met you...I know the kind of person you are - I am blown away by your compassion for your community...such genuine leadership and service! you are the real deal ! I think wierwille misspoke in PFAL – “The Word” doesn't take the place of the absent Christ...for all practical purposes wierwille took the place of Christ...and what a poor example of leadership and service wierwille was.

thanks Twinky I never heard of Nouwen until you mentioned him...I looked him up on the internet and like what I'm reading about him...I put his book Adam: God's Beloved on my wish list...thanks again!

oh you can take a lot of credit my friend – you are definitely in the small handful of articulate, thoughtful and thought-provoking Grease Spotters that have had a huge influence on me...I appreciate your patience and “tutelage” ! Another person in that handful that I truly miss is Garth P. Hey on the flip side of the flip side – I believe I'm more in tune with your sentiment than I used to be. I think there's some serious drawbacks to a mentality that has a firm grip on a heavenly hope of resolution and perfection. Another stumbling block is the tendency to put on the back burner any big problem that can't be fixed pretty quick with a miracle (yeah, like that's gonna happen) or “managed” by “operating some biblical principle” (yeah, like “the law of believing”). ..oh the utter lack of practicality with the TWI-mindset. Our daughter is so fortunate that we are not in The Way anymore. In TWI, people with special needs have such an inferior status....One corps night craig made a comment about the Special Olympics referring to the athletes as freaks of nature... our daughter was born just a couple of years after we left TWI....so I still had a lot of the TWI-mindset in me...you don't know how many times craig's words came back to haunt me.... ...not to worry – it took a while - but I've inspected, dissected, pulverized and rejected a lot of those thought patterns....TWI folks won't come right out and say anything – but I've heard enough innuendos from some TWI-folks that know our family that reveals an utter lack of empathy and compassion in the guise of having more important things to do, like moving “The Word”...talk about can a person truly change their mind – how about TWI folks changing their minds on how they look at people with special needs. Here's a tip – strike out the last three words – as follows “changing their minds on how they look at people with special needs.” They are people !!!! come to think of it – TWI-folks need to change their minds on how they look at people in general – but that's another story. I heard something at a down syndrome conference one time that took me a long time to process and understand. One of the gifts that people with special needs give is that they draw out the best in us. I've learned more about genuine love and to enjoy the simple pleasures of life from my daughter than in the 12 years of TWI...can an ex-TWI-believer change his mind – you betcha !!!!

I don't think I did much of what was expected on the WOW field...I remember a whole lot of hype about it and I had great expectations about it...The way your year panned out pretty much sounds like mine. Come into your assigned town like gangbusters – maybe half or three quarters of the way through the year everyone ran out of steam and just try to maintain a positive attitude about everything after meager results from witnessing...usually witnessed about 4 hours a day...worked part time jobs...had little money...scraping to get by... If I remember accurately we were a WOW branch of 7 WOW families sent to DC in 1975-1976, bicentennial year. Our WOW family barely got one class together – can't remember how many in the class – but it was under 7. Our landlord's girlfriend was in it but dropped out part of the way through. The only other student I still remember was a sweet young black lady named Alice who we met going door-to-door – she lived down the block from us; she invited us in and played some gospel records for us – one was about the troubling of the waters miracle in the gospels...anyway she was poor – my WOW brother got us all (our WOW family + Alice) a weekend house painting job – that helped Alice pay for the class...other classes were run – mostly Branch classes - comprised of new students from the various WOW families... A guy in another WOW family had committed suicide – which none of the other WOW families found out about until after an emergency WOW Branch meeting was called for...I just remember reeling from the shock – I was troubled and depressed for a while – I think that was the first time I ever heard of someone in The Way committing suicide and it did not compute with my romanticized concept of what life as a Way-believer should be like... ...at the end of the WOW year we were told that our prayers, witnessing and just standing on “The Word” kept our country from being taken over by the communists...Illuminati...wrong-seed boys...or some such bull$hit...I guess they were giving us some kind of a mental consolation prize for failing to make wierwille's delusions of grandeur a reality – translation = a poor turn out of new recruits...They even made a WOW promo video with a lot of pictures from our WOW Branch – just a lot of hype and propaganda – but we always enjoyed seeing it because it was like a family photo album to us. Like you said “When August and the ROA arrived we felt like we had endured, not served. We were relieved that it was all over. “ The best thing out of my WOW year was getting to meet my future wife, Tonto...we're still together and have returned to DC a few times...not to witness but to sight-see, have fun and enjoy our freedom from a controlling cult.

Geez Twinky you don’t have to talk about me in code - I’m an adult - I can take it

and if I may add some more positive stuff ...if it wasn't for all the atheists, agnostics, as well as any other viewpoint that is different from TWI – I would probably still harbor a fundamentalism/spiritualism/Gnosticism mindset – even though I was out of TWI and didn't get involved with another ministry or church. I would be a burnt-out-believer-without-a-Twig – and probably would never have gotten into reevaluating TWI-doctrine....or going on to checking out philosophy of religion. My hat goes off to all the atheists and agnostics that I have debated with for keeping it real – which inspired me to try and be more honest and open...helping me unravel the nature of a belief system...and many times forcing me to stay grounded in the plain and simple interpretation of Scripture...another thing I really admire is their bare-bones approach to life...to appreciate life right now and those you know and love and to do things just because it's the right thing to do and not because you're going to get some eternal reward...Sometimes I've said to my daughter you won't have down syndrome when you're in heaven – and though I continue to hope in a heaven, there is a part of me that doubts - and I think that's what really fuels my desire to see to it that she experiences as full a life as possible. And when I have thoughts like that which take God and heaven out of the picture – it's actually not as scary as I used to imagine while in TWI – there's often some sense of urgency to appreciate what I have right now. in my weird sense of humor I sometimes wonder if there just might be some higher power that I am as yet unfamiliar with – who had the wisdom and benevolence to synchronize me with Grease Spot.

More like fleeced sheep

yeah me too lately what I've found works most of the time is - if I'm going to quote one or more other Grease Spotters, I do that first - simply quote them and then post it...I don't do any editing or make comments...then - once I see that gets posted - and not until then, I proceed to edit and make my comments. I haven't had much trouble if I post from my iPhone though...but when I do post from my iPhone i tend to be a lot quicker and concise when I post...maybe Grease Spot website doesn't like it when I get verbose. and to be honest, I firmly believe computers work by magic - although Penn and Teller would argue it's just sleight of hand. hopefully the Grease Spot techs will clue us in on the proper method for posting or use our details as a means to troubleshoot if there's a real issue.

I think there may have been some confusion over defining a “true believer”; here's one definition I found: 1. Definition of true believer. 1 : a person who professes absolute belief in something. 2 : a zealous supporter of a particular cause. From: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/true believer and here's another 2. What makes someone a true believer? What marks a true believer is something that happens in the heart, because a true believer has been born again, regenerated, transformed, gone through a complete metamorphosis. And if we ask the question: what marks that transformation? Then we're getting to the reality of who is a true believer. From: https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/43-70/traits-of-a-true-believer-part-1# and here's yet a third 3. What does it mean to be a believer? Believer (noun) one who believes; one who is persuaded of the truth or reality of some doctrine, person, or thing. Believer (noun) one who gives credit to the truth of the Scriptures, as a revelation from God; a Christian; -- in a more restricted sense, one who receives Christ as his Savior, and accepts the way of salvation unfolded in the gospel. From: https://www.definitions.net/definition/believer# There's more definitions on the internet – just wanted to post a few samples and say that my viewpoint has been addressing the question using definition #1. And in light of the first definition being my reference point, I tend to look at the question “Can a true believer truly change his mind and truly become an unbeliever” in more of a physical way rather than a spiritual way (which would be more along the lines of definition #2). And in thinking of this in a physical way, I think in terms of a hardware versus software analogy of how a person functions. Modern medicine has come a long way in understanding how our bodies work (hardware) – and they keep making incredible advances on how to help, heal and maintain our health... and furthermore it's commonly accepted that the health of the mind (software) affects the health of the body (hardware). Mind-body medicine works with practices that can improve health, such as relaxation, meditation, yoga, etc. - I recently shared on another thread how transcranial magnetic stimulation has helped my daughter manage clinical depression and relieve catatonia. The field of psychology studies the mind - and often gets into "software issues"...Now me – I'm a hardware guy myself – if you've ever read my thread in computer questions you'll find out I'm pretty good at fixing equipment but not so good at understanding or fixing computers. Because machines, components, wiring and such are easier to troubleshoot – because you're not having to think in the abstract - Abstract thinking is the ability to think about things that are not actually present. People who think in an abstract way look at the broader significance of ideas and information rather than the concrete details. ..So as a technician I use my observation skills – for example – this pump motor doesn't work...Is the pump getting power? Is there power present at the outlet? Is there something funky about this electrical cord to the pump? A volt/ohm meter will diagnose the issue quickly...aha! There's power at the outlet. How about the electrical cord to the pump? Maybe there's either a short, open or ground on one or more of the wires of the cord... investigate...isolate...eliminate...problem solved... but software? Aye yi yi !!!! 3 days ago, Windows 10 started acting glitchy after I just installed the latest iTunes update to backup my iPhone to my PC... I didn't have a clue! I spent over an hour on the phone with Apple support to find out how to sync and use other features and had to change a few option settings. Tech support lady told me they've gotten a lot of calls after the latest rollout...by the way, iTunes still not working 100% – why do these IT engineers constantly change layout and functionality?!?! and oh yeah, after I'm done with “fixing” iTunes, my laptop gives me an alert to run scandisk to fix errors...Did that – took 4 hours and at least Windows 10 is back to “normal”....I'm to the point I find all my computer and device problems kinda funny...the Apple tech support lady was putting me on hold a few times...then she says she's reading through some tech support notes she has on the latest update...we're dealing with the invisible here !!!!! - you can't run it through an x-ray machine and see that my computer swallowed a dog whistle or something (I don't know if that's even possible). ... ..the moral of the story.? Use tin cups and string for communication and learn to enjoy vinyl records played on a turntable... just kidding ...I mean how this ties in to this thread is that talking about beliefs and the mind gets into a very elusive and intangible subject – something we usually have to speculate about – how the mind works. From what I’ve read online, some experts think our beliefs are somewhat like a software program always running in the background as we take in information and examine its source – checking for compatibility or conflicts with our existing beliefs. Our beliefs help form and/or modify a mental model for understanding the world, our self and others. ..As Rocky was saying “a change in values and beliefs would, imo, require changing more than a thought. Rather, changing how one interprets or gives meaning to a series of thoughts. “ The Psychology Today reference in my first post likens our beliefs to being a shortcut – a template. The parameters of the template or framework is something we use regularly...sometimes adjust or change. My two-bit psychological imagination sees our belief system as an open architecture program. “Open architecture is a type of computer architecture or software architecture intended to make adding, upgrading, and swapping components with other computers easy” from; Wikipedia open architecture So however you want to look at it – if the brain (hardware) was created this way – or it just evolved this way – or however our brains came to be – for instance another option is presented in Prometheus 2012 film - a movie I thoroughly really enjoyed --- - but I was annoyed at one promo line “all your questions will be answered” - nope ! The movie triggered a ton of other questions about “the engineers” – maybe they'll get answered in the sequel...hmmmm that's how they got me hooked in PFAL ….but anyway – to clarify I love the movie Prometheus...and no longer love PFAL... the flexibility...adaptability...creativity...exhibited in how we use our minds may indicate that even though some features and functionality is hardwired or has “default programming”, there are a lot of mysterious attributes and activities that enable us to change...adapt...grow...what's amazing is just the supposedly simple process of self-reflection – we observe and analyze ourselves – the convergence of hardware and software... “Metacognition is an awareness of one's own thought processes and an understanding of the patterns behind them.” from: Wikipedia - metacognition This awareness and understanding affords us options like being analytical, corrective, adaptive and even creative.

Feel free to parse away, Rocky - I’m cool with that… I was merely speaking in very general terms…as far as it being rare of people changing their minds on the big questions unless through some big emotional event - I agree with you -(btw, good article in your link) - I was merely stating the fact that people can and do change their minds - I was not addressing what it takes to change their minds or what type of issue they are changing their minds over. I’m familiar with Raf’s journey “seeing the dark” and know he did not come to that decision lightly - I imagine it was accompanied with some of that emotional turmoil you talked about. I may be wrong - but I didn’t think this thread was about losing salvation…for that matter I might have to disqualify myself since I have no definitive answer or belief on what Romans 10 means exactly. Perhaps salvation is one of the big questions I’ve changed my mind on since I left TWI…for 12 years of TWI-involvement I was absolutely convinced I was going to heaven, saved , I spoke in tongues… BUT - leaving TWI was one of the most emotional and stressful times in my life - which caused me to reevaluate everything. After years of processing my experience and realizing wierwille jerked me around on just about everything - - and realizing I had faked speaking in tongues - I wound up parsing my belief system. I believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit but also think I have a very shallow view of them…I’ve spent enough of prayerful study time focused on the Holy Spirit in the New Testament to realize wierwille did not know what the hell he was talking about. His analogy of the holy spirit (lower case) being like a car battery that empowers the manifestations was absurd ! wierwille was like a shady used car salesman who didn’t know the first thing about cars - but he tried to impress others who didn’t know the first thing about cars - telling them “oh yeah this car has 300 horsepower under the hood”. … Dumba$$es like me would ask how do you fit 300 horses under that hood? I don’t see them…he’d say “they’re real small and invisible “ and I bought into that bull$hit !!!!! …so some questions may be really important to some folks but not others…I once accepted wierwille’s definition of salvation- not anymore. I’m not sure about a lot of things…I’m still mulling over a lot of the big ideas in Bell’s “Love Wins” book. That book has my belief system in an even greater state of flux (talk about changing my mind)…it’s not like all my assumptions have been wrong - it’s more like there’s a whole lot more going on than I thought - there’s some interconnectedness about it all…I’m not really worried about my salvation anymore…I’m more concerned about how small minded I tend to be - afraid I’m going to miss the big picture - it’s sort of my search for the theory of everything philosophically speaking …how we’re all connected in some way regardless of one’s religion or lack of religion.

Thinking about taking the Advanced Class? Save yourself some money and time by getting one of these babies: The Magic 8 Ball ...oddly enough, displayed in this picture is the same answer I used to get when I asked any questions during or after the PFAL class and the Advanced Class ...coincidence or did wierwille plagiarize some answers from The Magic 8 Ball ?

Actually, the Twig that met across the street was having a Burn the Chaff Day. The boy was running over there to donate some Playboy magazines (actually they were The Way Magazines but he told his Mom they were Playboy). But it was not meant to be. An hour earlier Twiggy's doppelganger's stepdad was a repentant gang-banger and had already thrown in his entire collection of doggy-porn videos (all 55 volumes) as well as the CF&S class onto the Burn the Chaff bonefire. The fire quickly got out of control - and good thing someone had the believing to dial 911. Do you know what saved those Way Magazines from the fire? The firetruck running over that little boy. After investigating the fire, Fire Marshal Bill stated that VHS tapes are very flammable and probably acted as an accelerant to spread the fire. In honor of the valiant boy's life and to curtail any further unbridled thinking or inbreeding Fire Marshal Bill announced they will host a Renewed Mind Class at the Fire Station with pole dancing contests during the breaks. Fire Marshal Bill said they are preserving all evidence from the fire - especially any video tapes that were not damaged by the fire. "We need to look over every piece of evidence very very carefully...this could take a long long time...and a lot of popcorn."

Twinky, sorry to disappoint – while I do find anything about how our minds work so fascinating – I don't see what the big deal is...I happen to agree with Raf's points: people can and do change their minds all the time. It's a simple fact of life. Even from a biblical point of view – there's tons of passages that address the fickleness...changeability...irregularity...shortcomings of the mind...as well as prompts to develop our cognitive skills... we see people convert...sin...repent......vacillate...abandon their faith...modify their faith...their love in the faith grows cold...So people can and do change their minds – that's obvious. How that happens tends to be a little more complicated. The phenomenon of changing minds is one of the least examined and – I would claim – least understood of familiar human experiences…from Howard Gardner in Changing Minds: The Art and Science of Changing Our Own Minds and Other People’s Minds Maybe some folks who have issues with this stuff might still be harboring the false assumptions, logical fallacies and absolutism of wierwille: “...now you know, that you know , that you know...” now I know that's a whole lot of hogwash. ** ** ** ** DVD bonus feature – the following is an excerpt from an article “What actually is a belief? And why is it so hard to change?”: "...Beliefs as energy-saving shortcuts in modeling and predicting the environment. Beliefs are our brain’s way of making sense of and navigating our complex world. They are mental representations of the ways our brains expect things in our environment to behave, and how things should be related to each other—the patterns our brain expects the world to conform to. Beliefs are templates for efficient learning and are often essential for survival... ...These shortcuts to interpreting and predicting our world often involve connecting dots and filling in gaps, making extrapolations and assumptions based on incomplete information and based on similarity to previously recognized patterns. In jumping to conclusions, our brains have a preference for familiar conclusions over unfamiliar ones. Thus, our brains are prone to error, sometimes seeing patterns where there are none. This may or may not be subsequently identified and corrected by error-detection mechanisms. It’s a trade-off between efficiency and accuracy... ...In its need for economy and efficiency of energy consumption, the default tendency of the brain is to fit new information into its existing framework for understanding the world, rather than repeatedly reconstructing that framework from scratch... ...Radically restructuring our belief system and creating a new worldview engages parts of the brain involved in higher reasoning processes and computation, and is consequently more effortful, time- and energy-consuming. The brain often cannot afford such an investment. This would explain why, when we experience cognitive dissonance, it is easier to resolve this discomfort by doubling down on our existing belief system—ignoring or explaining away the challenging, contradictory information.... ...Science values the changing of minds through disproving previously held beliefs and challenging received authority with new evidence. This is in sharp contrast to faith (not just religious faith). Faith is far more natural and intuitive to the human brain than is science. Science requires training. It is a disciplined method that tries to systematically overcome or bypass our intuitions and cognitive biases and follow the evidence regardless of our prior beliefs, expectations, preferences or personal investment. ...The increasing application of the scientific method in the last four centuries ushered in unprecedented, accelerating progress in humanity’s quest to understand the nature of reality and vast improvements in quality of life. Discovering just how mistaken we collectively were about so many things has been the key to sensational societal progress... ...Faith is based on belief without evidence, whereas science is based on evidence without belief. " from: Psychology Today: what is a belief? why is it hard to change? if you have the time - read the whole article - a lot of interesting stuff in there!

about the word “believing” wierwille liked to redefine many things – and that was generally a ruse to manipulate his adoring students into one of his many elaborate mental traps that seemed to have no exit. Take for example, a little thing like “believing”. If you believed “The Word” under his ministry then it was generally understood there was no alternative way for you to think or believe other than by his viewpoint. The only choice outside of wierwille's sanctimonious little kingdom was oblivion! It goes along similar lines as “crossing the Rubicon” – an idiom which means to commit to a particular plan or course of action that cannot be reversed. The phrase refers to how Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon river and became embroiled in civil war in 49 BCE. Controlling cults constantly work to shore up a high commitment level from their followers to ensure retention . They don't want you to change your mind - alter your beliefs - and leave. It would be bad for business. They warn that you will disappoint God, your fellow believers and lots of bad $hit will follow you for the rest of your miserable life. You will be a tripped-out-believer. Speaking for myself, I've found that beliefs and priorities can change. Over the years since I've left TWI, many of my beliefs about God, the Bible and even life in general have been in a state of flux just because I now exercise my freedom to think more deeply, the freedom to question and the freedom to consider other viewpoints. I even started a thread to talk about my journey Concerning the Bible - confessions of a former fundamentalist   It was uncomfortable at first – just from exploring territory that was unfamiliar to me and there was no one to hold my hand...that's because TWI had “trained” the adult out of me (putting it in Advanced Class lingo – they exorcised the ability to think and act like a grownup out of me – I really got delivered deluded in that last session, praise wierwille and all the head table hosts!) We are free to believe whatever we want to believe – that's why controlling cults have to resort to soft-sell, deception, manipulation and eventually hardcore indoctrination tactics to get followers to adopt new attitudes, values, and beliefs. Edmund Burke an Irish statesman, economist, and philosopher once said “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion”... ...I used to have the following quote at the bottom of every post – not anymore – but it's still on my profile page About Me along with some other rascally ramblings of my TWI experience: Freedom of the mind requires not only, or not even specially, the absence of legal constraints but the presence of alternative thoughts. The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.....by Allan Bloom...from The Closing of the American Mind

Behold – we've once again accidentally stumbled upon the way to get ahead in TWI...it's not by merit or any natural leadership ability...having charisma might be okay but better not outshine wierwille...no, the key to a successful career in TWI is to be the best brown-noser you can be...just like his mentor, craig lacked empathy and compassion and was just as mean-spirited if not more so...they say imitation is the highest form of flattery...you go, Brown-noser ! !!!

FYI -there’s also phobophobia - a fear of phobias - or a fear of fear Wikipedia- phobophobia

I think the Advanced Class just might be wierwille's opus on PFAL. Both PFAL and The Advanced Class are resplendent with wierwille's fourfold whammy of obfuscating just about anything in the Bible – it's sort of a signature-intuition-fundamentalism-spiritualism-Gnosticism kind of a thing: 1. signature intuition – refers to what wierwille felt was true regardless of what a passage might really mean; though incompetent with the biblical languages and having a penchant for plagiarism and logical fallacies he was able to cobble together something he was proud of; Signature intuition is wierwille's unique sixth sense of nonsense to divine Scripture so it always suited his lifestyle - and the devil be damned! It seemed to me wierwille was usually flying by the seat of his pants – using his own initiative and “perceptions” and during live teachings he frequently strayed from the very interpretative keys he taught in PFAL. I think he lacked the discipline, wisdom, experience and honesty of a seasoned researcher and so relied more on intuition to pull off his act. He would often play his trump card “Father revealed it to me” Real Bible scholars focus on trying to properly understand the Scriptures through the context, biblical languages, cultural context , historical context, the systematic study of the texts, and plain logic – it really is a discipline, a science and an art – if any intuition is involved it's in gaining a feel for the significance to ascribe to certain data and where more attention would prove to be most beneficial. 2. fundamentalism – a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible – wierwille uses passages like in Mark 11 where Jesus talked of moving mountains (a common metaphor of that day about solving seemingly difficult or impossible problems) as a proof text for the law of believing. ..There was very little consistency in his literal-ism - I never heard wierwille advocating we should cut off a sinful hand, foot or eye per the directive given in Mark 9:43-47 ...wierwille made such a big deal in PFAL about how “The Word” means what it says and says what it means – and yet how many folks who sat under his teaching ministry ever confronted “the teacher” of PFAL about his plagiarism, lies, stealing, cheating, vindictiveness, fits of uncontrollable rage, unkindness, lack of compassion, sexual-predatory behavior per the clear directives of Ephesians 4: 20 - 32 ...well, there's actually been a few who have done that and have lived to tell about it on Grease Spot....“The Word” means what it says and says what it means – what a joke! It meant nothing to a consummate hypocrite...the joke is on all of us who believed this charlatan. 3. spiritualism – wierwille speculated on how the spiritual realm works – but talked about it like it was absolutely true. anything you wanted to know about – like what God can or cannot do – just ask him; he promoted himself as an expert on the relationship between spirit and matter; whatever he said goes even if there's no way to verify it; and whatever he said was regurgitated and parroted down through the ranks of TWI – thus wierwille's nonsense spiritualism was perpetuated; can people be born again of the wrong seed? Sure, why not – who's going to prove there's no such thing? Are you possessed? Not sure? Ask him...but don't challenge him or ask him to prove any of his malarkey. This isn't real science you know. Real science is pursued through the scientific method which is principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. 4. Gnosticism – the core of Gnosticism rests on secret knowledge - which is the big hype of the Advanced Class; matter...flesh is evil...sinful...imperfect and the Spirit is good...pure... perfect and there is a clear separation between the material world and the spiritual world; let's find out about all the categories of devil spirits...the fully initiated are the elite who deserve to have influence and authority over others...part of the big hype of the Advanced Class is the mystique of conspiracies – the Illuminati, One World Government, the wrong-seed boys running everything,..part of the attraction to conspiracies may have something to do with what Ello Martino Ph.D. said: "humans have a need for control and order when distressed. Fear, uncertainty, and feelings of being out of control can lead people to search for patterns and meaning in people's behavior as a way to make sense of the chaos and attempt to navigate the fear of the unknown. This is an evolutionary adaptive mechanism designed to keep us alive" from: Psychology Today: Why You Are Attracted to Conspiracy Theories the real conspiracy is TWI's secret plan to exploit followers who believe all their bull$hit. TWI blows smoke up your a$$ so you feel like you're the real movers and shakers of this crazy-town nonsense! oh yeah - fully initiated - "spiritually mature" (spiritually mature...i.e. you've not only taken all the classes but you've put wierwille up on the little adoration pedestal in your heart) The spiritually mature “get “ wierwille's skewed interpretation of Scripture...if you do - then it means you've guzzled down the Kool-Aid ! Congrats !!!! the Advanced Class was always wierwille’s fourfold whammy of obfuscation at its best !

I never heard that either - must have been after I left in 86 so you can imagine my surprise when I heard it - see below are posts from PFAL wonder camp thread:

I found this short article interesting for a few of reasons. One of which it gives a clear definition of self-deception – a set of practices and attitudes that hinders one from making a reliable assessment of their situation – in other words you're not hopelessly blind, you may just need to clean the smudges and fog off your eyeglasses. The second point which has been mentioned before is the good and bad aspects of self-deception in regards to being adaptive, helpful or harmful. self-deception can be intentional or unintentional - or move from one to the other. And third, the article reminded me of the insanity of the frustrated repetitiveness with the TWI-mindset – I often would spend a whole lot of time and energy doing something but achieving nothing. Albert Einstein is credited with saying “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” here's the article: Self-Deception Has Many Faces Self-deception involves incongruity between beliefs, actions, and the world Posted May 6, 2015 by Peg O'Connor Ph.D. “Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving yourself.”—Ludwig Wittgenstein Self-deception is often easy to recognize in others but far more difficult to recognize in ourselves. With another, we may have a better perspective that is not colored by an investment in seeing that person or his circumstances in a certain light. With ourselves, we both lack perspective and have an investment in seeing and understanding ourselves and our circumstances in certain ways. The lack of perspective combined with needing and wanting to see ourselves and our circumstances in certain ways is why self-deception is so potentially dangerous and debilitating if it runs too deeply or in too many directions. Self-deception has many guises, which also contributes to its being difficult to identify. There are the more familiar forms of denial, rationalization, and minimization. But what exactly is self-deception? A preliminary definition: Self-deception is a set of practices and attitudes that hinders a person from making a reliable assessment of her situation. As a consequence, she is unable to appropriately recognize her own agency and often fails to grasp what is or isn’t her rightful responsibility. Self-deception may be intentional. It may be unintentional. The line between the two is blurry; one form can often change into another. The more frequent direction is from intentional to unintentional. In certain situations, engaging in intentional self-deception may be necessary and life-saving. Two very different cases involving different types of self-deception illuminate these features. The first case involves denial. Consider a person who is experiencing something traumatic such as domestic abuse. She may tell herself that it isn’t really happening or endows it with very different meaning. She may know on some level that it is really happening but she denies it as a matter of survival or preservation of her well-being. She may become habituated to telling herself the same story about what has happened; it is her primary way of making sense of what she’s experiencing. The intention to preserve herself may recede deep into the background over time. Her self-deception moves from being intentional to unintentional. In this case, there is a clear investment in not seeing/accepting that she is being abused. As is often the case in abuse, the victim gets it wrong about what she can or cannot do; she can’t see where her agency ends and her abuser’s begins. She may believe that she can control enough in the environment so that her abuser will not get set off. And for some victims, they may assume they are somehow responsible for what others are doing to them. In this case, self-deception may be adaptive and helpful in some ways. At the exact same time, it may be dangerous and debilitating. This case of self-deception creates a double bind that is extraordinarily difficult to escape. The second case involves procrastination, an especially tricky form of self-deception. Consider a person who knows that he has a substance use disorder (SUD). He can clearly describe his drinking patterns, increased tolerance, and feelings of withdrawal as well as chart the adverse effects caused by his drinking. He’s taken more online quizzes than he can count and has told his friends that he knows his drinking has progressed down the spectrum to full blown disorder. He knows he is an alcoholic and that he needs to do something about it. Today he makes himself the promise that he will get help tomorrow. Tomorrow he makes the same promise. This is procrastination. Procrastination is a failure of the relationship between knowledge and the will, according to Soren Kierkegaard. Knowledge should guide our actions but when we know what we should do but are unwilling even for a moment, a gap opens. A quick as a wink moment of hesitation can grow into a long series of moments of nonaction. Procrastination is deceptive because it masquerades as activity. The man who promises to get help can tell himself that he is gathering more information, getting his affairs into order, making arrangements, etc. He can keep turning all the considerations he can possibly identify over in his mind. Repeatedly. He can begin to manufacture other concerns that warrant consideration. He can tell all his family and friends everything he’s doing. At the end of each day, though, he still has not gotten help. This person has an investment in seeing himself as the sort of person who does something about a problem. He may even see himself as the sort who grabs the bull by the horns. He is doing many things. In fact, he may be a whirling dervish gathering facts and “taking care of business.” But all this activity may make it very hard to accurately see his situation; he’s still not getting help. He isn’t exercising his agency effectively, which in turn means that he isn’t fully taking responsibility. As Kierkegaard notes, procrastination is like sewing without tying a knot at the end of the thread. One makes the motions but one actually doesn’t sew. The practical consequences are quite different; the seat of your pants will still be split. from: Psychology Today: self-deception has many faces ** ** ** ** I was really fascinated with what the article said about procrastination. Reflecting on some of my old TWI-mental habits I think many of them fall into this category of procrastination. In TWI we were taught that “believe is a verb and a verb connotes action”. wierwille and other TWI-leadership would extrapolate on the numerous “activities” you could or should perform to keep your believing engaged until you got what you were believing for. If you're believing for rain carry an umbrella. I once heard a teacher give an example of a business man with only one foot who always carried in his briefcase a shoe for the missing foot should it ever be miraculously restored while he's out and about at work. Other suggestions to keep yourself busy with the work of believing... or... building your believing were positive affirmations, specific prayers, Bible studies on examples of believing, focusing on believing images of victory in your mind, telling everybody and their brother what you're believing for. I think a lot of this stuff is as the above article said procrastination deceptively masquerading as activity. The TWI-mindset is especially adept at conflating two or more ideas into one – but that does not mean the combination is necessarily true or correct. “Believe” is an action verb. And from there wierwille's materialistic focus skyrocketed – wierwille reinterpreted the more than abundant life Jesus offered in John 10:10 to mean you can have whatever you want – you just have to believe. If you don't have it yet – just keeping on believing – act and talk like you've already got it – believe in your believing – keep rubbing the magic lamp and sooner or later the genie will grant your wish.

perhaps TWI / weirwille didn't see it as putting limitations on God Almighty...maybe it all started out they simply wanted to funnel an infinite being down to our finite brains...after much brainstorming and several design revisions they figured out wierwille was the appropriate conduit and then it was simply a matter of what to put in the wide opening at the top of the funnel and guided through the small opening at the bottom...after plagiarizing a bunch of authors to pour in the wide opening at the top they soon discovered what came out of the bottom end - - money...lots and lots of money...see illustration below:

Yup – you're right on that, OldSkool !!!! In my two-bit sociological opinion, the desire to have power and control one's own destiny has been around ever since humans have been on the Earth...I discussed an aspect of this on a thread in doctrinal not too long ago – citing the big philosophical difference between superstition, magical thinking, the law of believing, the occult, etc. and faith in God...the thing that distinguishes the two is by looking at who is thought of as being in control: You are in control in some religions, superstitions, occult practices, proponents of the law of believing etc. even if there is a deity involved – the practitioner of this belief system may offer sacrifices, perform rituals, recite affirmations, cast spells, focus their thoughts, pray, direct certain actions in order to influence the deity, or in some way force the deity to act...if there is no deity / deities involved, the idea is that you have to take advantage of or harness certain existing forces... A slight variation of this is the law of believing presented in PFAL – where wierwille says it's a power that works for saint and sinner alike and he even goes further to say if one had some fear of death or set the time of their death - God would have to change all the laws of the universe not to accommodate you. That sounds more like someone is describing the Force of Star Wars...The idea is that you are in the driver's seat. this thinking gives “the believer” some false sense that they are in control...overall whether a deity / deities are involved or not – in my opinion, the person that subscribes to this belief system is on their own...good luck! God is sovereign In my opinion, faith in God has the focus on God - He is the object of my faith rather than money, a person or situation being something that "I'm believing for"... God is sovereign. I think true faith is a trust in God – that He is sovereign and hears our prayers – and answers them as He sees fit – and maybe not always as we expect. Ephesians 3:20 should relieve us of any concerns that God is limited by our believing – for he is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we could ask or think...Most of the time this world seems like it's out of control and I can't make sense of many things. But I do believe in a higher power who has a plan and a means to execute it (execute the plan that is – not the world ). This leaves God in the driver's seat.

Nice paper, OldSkool ! I like the stuff about tracing the origins of the law of believing

In my opinion that is the crux of the matter...growing in analytical skills and exercising the freedom to decide our own takeaways will change things...maybe that's part of how many people outgrow TWI. ...your funny response about the Interlinear probably being okay in TWI-world but “non-sanctioned” material was a no-no got me thinking about all the biases built into the TWI-mindset. Developing our critical thinking skills can help us identify some seemingly automatic biases and help us fine tune them according to our best interests – we might eliminate, reduce or modify certain biases. In that regard , reading those “classic” authors while in TWI probably laid the groundwork for thinking outside TWI's theological box... my biggest takeaways from PFAL are fairly simple and remain in my core of beliefs: The Bible is the Word of God, and that it is best understood in light of the original languages and cultural background... my biggest complaint about PFAL and the Advanced Class is their thematic structure – there is a preoccupying concept that runs through these classes and strategically ties together everything and it's a fairly simple idea – wierwille is presented as the ultimate authority on the Bible, God, salvation, the Christian lifestyle, prayer, receiving revelation, devil spirits, etc.