djs

Thanks Garth for that - I guess I got fed up with posts being taken wrong and people getting slammed. I don't think I'll be reading an entire thread at one time because of the large dose of yuck that can sometimes build. I just got fed up!!! IMO - it discredits what this site is suppose to do for people. It discredits the info. and the stories of the people here - for people like me who are trying to make sense of it all. Tom - I got in twi in the mid 90's at the ripe old age of 16. My fellowship was amazing - I experienced none of what the rest of the ministry was facing. It was like my own little cocoon. I didn't start seeing or feeling what you described until several years later. But yes, you're right about the we are better and know more attitude. I experience all of that in the lcm erra and had no idea that it stemmed from vpw until I came into contact with this site. Neither end of the rope is what God would want for his people. The educated ones superior and only use His word to soley debate to prove their knowledge. Or the ones like vpw who twist it for gain and their own selfish pleasure.

Belle - thank you that was a very informative post. It was very good and I appreciate the info. I'm still thinking about what direction I want to go, to peal off the next layer. I'll let you know when I'm ready for the info you offered. That was a great example of how to..... let me see how was it said........very effective way of stripping off the layers......... and yet I don't feel my knee caps broken at all. Dear Mr. Garth, This is a classic example of not reading someone's post fully and jumping with emotion. I never really said WHAT Paisano made sense about. Yet, you jumped and reamed me for not agreeing with letting the truth about vpw, lcm, and twi be fully known. If you really read my post you would see this point. Maybe, you could go back and re-read it and not let your emotions trigger as quickly. As for .........how did you say it......... something on the lines of ww's very effective way of stripping twi's flaw's for all to see....... Again - if you read my post - again you'll see that I didn't have a problem with ww letting the truth come out - but rather the description I gave above about the sometimes pettiness in the way it is carried out. Like I tell my very intelligent, energetic, sometimes naughty children - If only you could use your forces for good not destruction. It appears to me that a lot of the time ww ( and others) like to personally attack the poster with useless, mean dissection. I'm trying to say you can effectively do the stripping without the destructive bantering. Hince - the bitter and cynical part. P.S I am on softer side of the antamony scale. And what is a minkey - I couldn't find a definition anywhere?

Paisano ....... Welcome to GSC!!!! Is your name Itailiano? Hey, Mambo, mambo Itailiano...... I've read through most of this thread and I have to tell you to beware, get some tough skin, and let the water roll off your back. Especially, when you make sense because the usual spotters don't like it. I'm pointing my fingers at people who pounce without fully reading posts OR who jump full throttle to take your knee caps off by pointing out your bad grammar OR disect your post with very harsh, shallow, and sometimes pointless little victories. Those are just bitter and cynical rantings from people who have a great need of healing in their life and are not pursuing that need. Otherwise, "THE TRUTH" of what's being said on this site would be worded differently, it would be toned differenlty etc. - wouldn't it? ESPECIALLY, FOR A NEWBIE!!!!!!!! The heart would show through in the writing of someone who wanted to HELP, who knew the correct info to share to help other people get deliverance from a horrible cult experience, etc. The heart would be to help a fellow member see the light from someone who could help peal off the layers without stripping them down to the core and nit picking everything he posted. Maybe word wolf should win the pole of the next prez of twi because I sure the he11 feel like I'm still there.

How many books of the bible were written by "scholars or theo's or what ever the proper term for their day was? Yes, I'm an "innie" but only half way in at this time. Or should I say mostly out. I read some, but not all, of the books vpw was accused of taking for his own. Not side by side or anything but I could see a lot of similiarity(sp) and ideas but not outright stolen works. DISCLAIMER: I'm still working on disecting all the vpw stuff so don't pounce to hard on me. I didn't say I've read everything, either!!! Anyway, none of the works by these other men really put it all together for me like vpw and not get bored out of my mind by the very strict language usage. I was a teenager when I got in!!!! I needed clear and easy but exciting information. I lived in a town with one of the largest baptist seminary schools in the nation. I met quite a few of them because I worked and lived near the school. I found that most of them don't really believe in God or that the bible is His word. The whole point of all this learned ed. was to argue and discredit each other or anyone else who would step into the ring. The awesome things God had written in there for his children to be success or what he did for them meant NOTHING. It was all about who could prove to have the superior knowledge to win a debate. I know that's not true for everyone and that's not fair to throw them into one big lump. Because of those experience's, I discredit that education as being the most important.

Oh ya - I forgot about one more thing......... I heard that the reason everything is so milky is that they are trying to make it simple enough that a twelve year old can understand it. I heard this was said from a current region co-or who was all upset that his "article" had been sent back to him several times "revised". When he asked about it, that was the reason given - this is third hand info. or maybe forth - anyway that is what I heard. If you think about it, it makes a lot of since to gear your material to the only people who are taking your classes. Way kids!!!!!! but the last time I was twelve or in my teens I didn't waste my time on things that bored me. Teens have a lot of passion and enthusiasm and crave info. that will fuel their creativeness. Not boring way mag articles with clique phrases that really say nothing. Why not have teens write articles for teens - or atleast people who have their individual ministry geared toward the younger ones. I still think that is has a lot more to do with getting their butts sued off or afraid of saying the wrong thing.

Belle - in response to your question about a lot of illness in twi. They have been doing teaching series on sns. i.e. deliverance, healing, abundance, believing etc. They usually last a month or so and each teacher brings to the table what they have experienced in that catagory along with scripture. The tape series that charged $4.00 for each tape - I think that those are from individuals who volunteered their time on staff to teach to their long suits. Last time I was there, I spent a weekend and kinda went exploring. I came across sign up sheets for all these different classes you could sign up for or you could put on your own. Topics were things like how to ................ crochet/knit hand made cards helping your child with homework put together a car maintance schedule natural health care saving money teaching your children about money public speaking writing learning new ways to do bible research I can't remember anymore but you can get the idea. It looks like they've taken the ones without the need for visual assistance and let everyone have access to them. Hope that sheds some light on the subject!!!!! Have a great weekend!!!!!!

The Rock of Ages 95'. The whole week was centered around Corth. and not being unequally yoked with unbelievers. It was pretty indepth and very physco. There was all kinds of rantings about people, religions, and many diverts to everything being evil. Inculding, 90% of the people in twi - he ranted about teen sex, homos, the catholic church, debt, and definitely have no "full" sharing with anyone outside the minsitry - because like a smaller ox tied with the bigger ox YOU WILL BE BROUGHT DOWN. So, don't get entangled with anyone outside of the ministry because we are God's ONLY true household. I think he also mentioned that there is no protection outside of the household. Those are not exact quotes but it gives a good place to start for the kind of teachings you are looking for to win the case. Maybe, someone still has those tapes and can copy or send them to you. With those tapes, the case could possibly be won hands down. I threw mine away a few years ago after listening to about an hour of it. I was looking for the word that had been taught to back up the debt policy. Of course, I didn't find any and got really ticked off listening to them - hince, that's why they are in the trash. Now, I wish I would have kept them.

Hi Welcome, I'm currently still an "innie". As far as I know Stephen and Patti Fae Roberts are the Limb co-or's of Tennessee. There are no more mark and avoid teachings or policys. They still teach, in the advance class only, about devil spirits. They focus more on God and what he's done for us overall. It is not prevailant to think that everything is evil and to go looking for the devil spirits in everyone and everything. Instead there has been a shift to focus more on God, his goodness, healing and deliverance. Don't get me wrong here - there are still a lot of problems. No apologizes have come forth about the past. It's kind of been swept under the rug like it didn't happen. People are openly hurting and untrusting of anything TWI. The no debt policy is still in effect and is not going anywhere anytime soon. Overall. the sts is really lame but occasionally a really good one goes out. It depends on what area you live in and the leadership there as to how you are treated and the spiritual climate. One of the only reasons I'm still in is due to the fact that my local fellowship is really awesome.

I'm not referring to those who were drugged and raped etc!!!!!!!!!! Please don't mistake that point in my previous post. I'm talking about those who post here who saw stuff that raised many red flags and sometimes were out right in your face wrong. They decided to ignore what they saw, experienced it and took part in some of it and NOW feel it is their responsibitly to tell all. Wouldn't it have made more of an impact if you'd done something back then? Posters who admit that they witnessed this stuff sinned too - just like I know I did. There were plenty of things I walked by, many many things I was to afraid to confront. I also don't have a problem admitting that I played a role in some of the evil control that happened in the 90's. I know my roll and have apologized to many people................and what's best is that I CHANGED my behavior. I also don't put up with it anymore - I DECIDED not to put up with the CHIT anymore - GUESS WHAT - IT DOESN"T HAPPENED TO ME ANYMORE - no one has power over you unless YOU YOU YOU YOU allow it. I'm not excusing the actions of vpw, lcm and the like with my next statement - please, by no means mistake that with my next question or think that I'm saying what they did was right. BUT NOT ALL THE RESPONSIBILTY LIES EXCLUSIVELY ON THEIR SHOULDERS CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY THAT YOU CAN THROW THE FIRST STONE???????? or take the attitude that because your sin didn't reach the same level that you DECISIONS were of no matter????????

EEEWWWW!!!!! You will not be very well liked for this topic - that's for sure. I completely agree with you about taking you own actions into account. I think if people did that - the ones who post on this site, then there would be a lot less to post about. After all, a person (vpw, lcm) only has power if people follow and buy into that power. Otherwise, they ( vpw etc.) would have to do all the leg work themselves and only do the harm to themselves. People have complained about all the "stuff" that has happened from the very begining............the ones who were actually there to witness it ........... WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!! Some of you kept you mouth shut - sat in mtgs where crap was definietly not taught right - AND SAID NOTHING DID NOTHING AND DECIDED TO KEEP TAKING IT. YOU DECIDED TO EAT IT YOU DECIDED TO KISS A$$$ YOU DECIDED TO STAY AND PUT UP WITH MORE Some of you even helped further the "other work of the ministry' the side not every one knew about. Please see my disclaimer in my next post

I've listened to the last few sts and they were pretty good. I listen to them while I do things around the house etc. I had to actually stop what I was doing, sat down and cried my head off at the loving word that was God inspired. I haven't had anything from TWI have that effect on me in many years. It was I needed to hear at the time on something I needed healing from. I realized that I had been condemning myself on something that was out of my genetic control. These days I don't care where I hear the word from ......... as long as it feeds my spiritual needs I listen. I have many different outside (twi) sources that I study from. I've also fallen in love with a local book Christian book store.

Oh, my fav was the one they sang the blue book to a snappy, jazzy tune. It is like reading chapter headings with a few snippets of what the chapter consists of with music behind it. Oh, oh what about the one were they took the description off the Way mag for a way follower and put it to music. It just repeats over and over and over and over. Atleast, for three or four minutes long.

I would be happy to if I can find it. I have not as of yet heard anything to that effect. I'm a few tapes behind - I think that I might have to catch up now. I can't go back to previous tapes because I throw them away after I listen. But if someone could give me a time frame from when this happened I could ask a friend to look through their tapes. I need........ Teachers name Date - if available I'll type up the teaching - well most of it surrounding that particular area. We'll get the context of what was said. djs

Dear Tom, That incident happened about 8 years ago. Why am I staying around - I'm not sure yet. I'm not afraid something bad is going to happen or anything. I think for myself and study much outside of TWI doc. so I know that nothing like that will happen. Atleast, not from the awesome God that I worship. I guess I'm not fully convinced one way or the other yet or maybe I'm waiting for something better to come my way. The problem is - I'm not sure what I'm looking for or what I want to satsify my spiritual needs. My fellowship is really great, it's one of the best hhf's I've been apart of. We do things outside the box and my hhf co-or is a rebel of sorts and does things his own way and for the people. He doesn't get messed with because he knows how to throw down and not get walked on. He commands a lot of well earned respect. As far as the organization itself, I'm totally over it all. I've seen enough change to think it will change but I know now that it will problaly not. The silence from the top is deafing and speaking louder than bland crap that is coming from the stage on Sundays. It's giving off a feeling of emptiness - I don't how else to explain it. I keep waiting for more......excitement, passion, a loving warmth, and personality from people who love God and really live this stuff. They live in a world of fear(or denial or both) they should apologize to people still in and especially to those who have left or thrown out with their hearts cut open and bleeding to death. For whatever reason they have not or will not. I think it's fear of lawsuits etc. but either God is God and the protector or he is not. There might be some bumps along the way but GOD IS GOD. His protection will be there for doing the right thing. I guess the best answer is ............I'm working it out!!!!! My husband is getting there too - we are starting to turn on the same page. The answer would be clearer if our fellowship sucked.

I don't think I knew as a HFC what it felt like to be blasted in confrontations - until it happened to me. When it started happening to us, the screaming and name calling. Leadership gettiing in ALL of our personal business and then instead of helping us they would belittle us. We really thought there was something really, really wrong with us. We decided to move - we needed a fresh start. We knew too much about other people's crap and it was effecting our walk with God. Plus, we were dealing with our own "weaknesses" and wanted to have time to get ourselves together without the pressure of having everyone else know our business. ( Because, you were talked about behind your back by the very people who were supposed to love you) We had our eyes opened very wide when we moved. It got worse - we were no longer in "the Cliche". Our new leadership decided to call our old leadership. Nothing was told about us specifically, but was told that "our area sucked and they're shutting it down". So, we were labelled as "be on watch with them" - "they came from that area". Of course our Limb co-or went around running his mouth about us. So, our first limb mtg - 2 people out aprox.125 spoke to us. Although, that sucked I have to say that was the best thing that ever happened to us. We now knew what it flet like to treated like dirt, scum of the earth, and . I refused to treat anyone like that ever again. Even though I'm still in - I guess I have been de-programing for quite sometime.