DogLover

Me too, excie ... way to tell it like it was/is, DWBH!

What a surprise! I too recently had my 35th high school reunion ... but all the ones of us who had been in TWI have left, long since ... and there were quite a few of us that were. I think his statement about "quite a few of us" is a relative term ... I doubt if there are more than several thousand in the entire nation, much down from the reputed 100,000 in the US at TWI's peak.

Does anyone know where the former Paula Burkey is? She was in the 13th Corps with me, and at that time up through our interim year, she was married to Rand Burkey. She is the sister of the guy named Harvey who sang with Branded and was once a Way trustee. I don't know/can't remember what her current "name" is ... does anyone know if she is still in and what her name is now? Thanks, DogLover

DWBH ... I remember being told by someone (not someone locally) that you were born of the wrong seed, to which I replied, "No, he's not ... " They said, "How do you know?" I replied, "I've heard him speak in tongues and interpret on quite a few occasions ... and that's just the beginning of how I know he's not." So they shut up. I once PRETENDED to be possessed during my WOW year ... tired of my know-it-all (or so he thought) family coordinator casting spirits out of me, so I said (just like I'd heard in some class), "Yes, we're all gone now." He fell for it ... it was funny ... to this day, I am sure my similarly-nicknamed-to-the-purple-dinosaur friend thinks he cast spirits out of me. He's got a problem with Ephesians 4:32, so it's probably just as well he frequents only the WC site ... one of those DWBH has aptly said needs to apologize to those whom he used.

My answer was/is "yes." Guess I'm in the minority here. That's okay. I still say yes. I'm willing to take the "chance" that I'm wrong....and I guess everyone else who has posted here is also willing to take that chance.

I never bought the "ball of wax" about Athletes of the Spirit ...perhaps because I'm not athletic and I knew the Bible I had learned and been assured of was not dependent on my athletic ability ... and I figured God wouldn't limit His blessings to jocks. Early on in my years in TWI, a wonderful guy shared with me the verse, "God taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man" when I was thinking I wanted to stand for and with God, but I could not see myself getting up early and running in the morning every day for the rest of my life as part of it. It seems rather silly to write that or tell it now, but I was 18 at the time and to learn in a practical way that God was interested in my heart and not my legs/athletic ability was a great blessing to my life. I found it amusingly ironic that either every or almost every great "athlete" that LCM brought in front of our faces as "a great athlete and a great believer" always ended up either leaving TWI when the hype died down, being caught with drugs, or, in the case of the woman tennis player, being found to be lesbian. Now, many years later, the person many of us in the Corps learned Figures of Speech from has researched and proven conclusively that ALL the references in Ephesians 6 are military, not athletic. So there, O "spiritually" athletic ones!

Thanks for these posts, DWBH ... they shed a lot of light on things for me. It was always rather interesting to me that Dottie Moneyhands was encouraged to get her Masters degree in Counseling. I've heard often since then (and do not doubt) that she used that degree to counsel many of the victims of VPW and LCM, to keep them quiet. There's coming a day when she, B*b, and all the others that "counseled" young women to do their "master's" bidding will be judged by an even angrier Judge than me ... than any of us ... and we'll know the "sentence" because we will be there with him and them at the time. It's a part of our Hope. After this brief journey into "Bible Land," we can now go back to our regularly scheduled program.....

Billy Graham was right. The higher powers of Romans 13 are NOT the leaders in the church....they are the civil leaders in government. VPW always used the example of Hitler as the reason this section couldn't refer to government leaders ... but the powers that be that are ordained of God ARE a terror to good works. It took several years of my being out of TWI to see the logic in this section ...

I stayed up until the wee hours of this morning, foregoing seeing July 4th fireworks in order to finish it. It's very captivating, very sad through most of it, yet there is at least a partly happy ending ... and her life goes on. I myself was in the Way for 23.5 years and was rather shocked and surprised to find out when I left on January 11, 1996 that our so-called "father in the Word" had those particular tendencies described so aptly in her book. While not having any of those experiences myself, I totally identified with her feeling that "Doctor would fix it" when her life was falling apart. I remember being at Gunnison in 1985 (before VPW's death) under the tyrannical rule of TJ. Almost all of the women in our room in the fancy cabin, the Gunnison, and I cried ourselves to sleep many nights because of TJ's hatefulness and the utter sense of hopelessness he wrought. One of the women had been a flight attendant on Ambassador One during her interim year and knew Craig well ... we thought when he came to visit, that she would get a chance to talk to him and he would "fix it" and straighten Tom J. out .... as it turned out, he was so emotionally distant and self-absorbed when he came to visit that nothing got done. I remember thinking, trusting, he would do "the right thing" and was so, so disappointed when he left and everything went on the same ... I felt as if God had abandoned us. I think back now, "Why didn't you leave?" of myself ... and I guess I didn't for all the same reasons Kris didn't leave her abusive husband ... "it will get better" or "I can't leave the Corps/I'd be leaving God." It is just all so hard to explain to someone who has never been there. I say this because I still believe in the Bible, I go to a fellowship of mostly former Way folks, we are not a part of any splinter group, we HAVE taken the time to look at errors in doctrine and practice (and have found quite a few), yet I still remain thankful for what I learned from VPW -- sinner though he was in many categories so clearly outlined in many other threads. Yes, not all of it is true, much of it plagiarized, but the bottom line is that I have eternal life from the Bible (Romans 10:9) and I met a lot of wonderful people I would not have otherwise known. I say this not to be a "Wierwille apologist" or to lessen in any way the horrible abuses that Kris and others suffered at the hands of those they thought they could trust. I guess I see in my own life (as Kris did in hers) that in all of the darkest, most difficult times, GOD was always there, looking out for me (and for Kris). I am thankful she found the Light at the end of her long, dark tunnel. This is a well-written book, worthy of being read by anyone who spent time in the Way.

Just found this now ... but thank you all! It was a great birthday! DogLover

The Highway stated: R@n H*rst went into the 13th. I humbly disagree. I was in the 13th Corps and he was not in it. As I recall, he was in the 14th.

That's what Jim Do*r did to the Hickory, NC area when he came in 1995 ... which was fine with us ... we just all left and are doing our own church (which is much more Godly AND more fun!) ... he was so legalistic he had a set of rules taped to his refrigerator for his children to follow ... snack times outlined, what you could have to eat when, bedtime, when you could come to fellowship (only when invited), and numerous other things. What a loser!

I had a GREAT job during my WOW year 1980-81 in Chicago ... so wonderful that I even stayed for an extra year at a full 40 hours for a substantial raise in pay. There is a neat story behind it .. to see how God worked. I had started praying in about February that I would get a job at an advertising agency (don't know how I got that idea, either). When we arrived in Chicago, I went out the first day I was looking for a job down the street --- toward the lake, I was told ... I just happened to walk past a mom and pop advertising agency, remembered what I had prayed about, and went up to be buzzed in at the door. As I walked in, their guard dog, Emma the Doberman, came running up as she always did. While not even stopping to tell Harry, the owner, what I was there for, I reached my hand down, let Emma sniff it, then starting scratching her behind the ears. In an amazing "God thing," Harry had just decided THE NIGHT BEFORE that he would hire someone part time to help with the secretarial/proofreader work ... two things at which I excel. He was also the first one to introduce me to the Apple computer and the spreadsheet program, VISICALC. I stayed in touch with him and his wife until their death many years later. They gave me raise after raise (because of my presence and ability to do the office work, Harry could have time to go out and sell more advertising). Both years I was there, I got a week's pay as bonus, plus a great dinner out with the clients and other staff.... AND the artist they hired shortly after ended up being a person I was able to help ... she also took PFAL and witnessed to another person who did (and they went WOW and in the Corps). More than that, though, I was really able to help her overcome some things in her life. Looking back, it was a neat, neat example of how God worked to bless all involved.

I think learning how to spell "clique" and "corps" might be a good start. Sorry, the proofreader in me was just jumping up and down amidst all this drama.

I think the Way Credit Union still exists ... for checking and savings accounts .. no loans. (no debt, don'tcha know)

Yes, thanks for putting this all down, DWBH ... even though I was in for 23.5 years, I never knew how the ordinations came about. I always enjoy reading your posts. I was around in some of the early 70s to see that pure-hearted love folks on the field (including me) had to share with people the truth we were learning ... great love, great heart ... and if they had just left us alone instead of trying to micro-manage everything from Cornfield County, OH ... what a great move of God's Word we would have seen for much, much longer. Sigh ...but I'm thankful for what God wrought during those days ... and I believe He's still working today, just in much smaller pockets .... and not under the "flag" of any particular group.

Where was LEAD and Tinnie, you ask? In my opinion, slightly southwest of hell.

I went on the Way Historic Tour during my interim year at HQ (1983-84) on a Saturday, the day after a beautiful, deep snow. It was really the highlight of my time there (admittedly, there was not much competition ... it was a horrible year for the most part) ... I enjoyed seeing Van Wert in the snow ... very pretty city/town. We went to all the "historic" places in VPW's life and the early life of the Way.

Hate to be a stickler ... but if you're criticizing, you SHOULD know that the correct form if "its" was not used in your reply.... you used the "it is" form, not the "its" (possessive) form ... so yes, people WILL judge the content of your message by its form.

For anyone else interested: J.B. does not want any contact information given out about him.

Excellent, Ralph! (and thank you, Paw) It was wonderful to hear your voice again, Ralph, and even more wonderful to finally have all the "pieces" filled in as to what happened in those years ... this sure cut through the fog! Thanks for your time and your heart! DogLover

I just e-mailed J.B. tonight to get his permission to give you his contact information ... stay tuned to your private messages.

Bottom Line ... for the most part, LEAD and Rodeo School were not manned by folks that cared about anything but promoting their ego at the expense of others ... US! I remember the stupidity of "the rocks don't care" that I heard at LEAD ... and I remember thinking, "and I don't care about the rocks either." Christianity is the way of a loving Father with his family ... a loving father would never FORCE people to go to something like LEAD ... and if one of his children was hurt by voluntarily participating in Rodeo School, he would do whatever it took to take care of them and ensure their complete recovery. So glad I'm out!

I know a J.B. Brogden ... not sure if Julius is his first name or not. I believe he still lives in Winston-Salem, NC....try a White Pages search there ... if you are not successful, send me a private message and I can give you the last e-mail address I have for him. I know he is not in TWI any more.