doojable

Nero, I'd also be ready for the opposite. I'd be ready for B*ll Gr3ene to be so loving and that your mom says that TWI has changed and she wants to go back. I don't think this will work as well if she is surrounded by loving family already. BUT - if she is given a carrot to chase such as, "Come back to God and your believing will save your husband," her love for your dad just might lure her back into the clutches of TWI. Be genuine with your mom. Be tender and loving. I wouldn't leave her alone with Rev Gr3ene. He may be a great guy (don't know) but why take the chance of someone taking advantage of your mom while she is vulnerable?

Perhaps that they are being dishonest....

It's entirely possible that JAL and Jeff are lurking...

I read the information that I reposted in post #230. I am not implying anything. I am simply re-stating what I read.

Here it is plain and simple: It is possible for me to call you on the phone (hypothetically) and ask you to do something for me on a forum. If I then write things on that forum that are contrary to what I asked you to write and I make you out to be a fool or a liar or anything other than a person who has done what I asked - then I have manipulated you and "the public" on the forum. Suppose no written confirmation exists? Suppose that confirmation was made on the phone - as I stated in my first point, and as DWBH stated in the post I quoted. It seems to me that to be totally neutral, you would have to accept both DWBH's word and JAL's word equally, and to at least hold your judgement in abeyance. I'll admit that I have no fondness for JAL. I've seen the wake of destruction that he can leave. I'm not claiming neutrality regarding him. Perhaps that's a good reason for me to go back to lurking on this thread.

Larry - Hypothetically - If I call you on the phone and ask you to do something for me, then I publically post something contrary to what I said, I have manipulated information and I've manipulated you. NOW that is dishonest. Is it not? Why do you refuse to take what DWBH wrote on face value? Your insistence that a second written confirmation be provided comes across as naive at best and complicit at worst. I am not accusing you of either naivete or complicity - I am saying that is the impression you are giving. I wonder about your motivation for playing devil's advocate. What do you hope to accomplish? I'm writing this in as neutral a fashion as I can muster. And no - I will not email you because I have no information other than what I read here on the boards.

That's nice for you. Actually, the whole "if you leave God won't spit in your direction" theory did imply that God didn't really value a person unless they walked in TWI lockstep. God is accessible regardless of the group of people. Why stay with a group of unbelievers who keep telling lies? Speaking about God like He was some bully was a lie. How much effort was it to stay and filter through the BS? And WHY STAY with a group of believers that are no longer loving? What are they believing if they no longer have love? Seems to me that that's the time you find another group of believers and spend their time with them.

Some people know how to use communications to their advantage. JAL, IMHO, is one of these people. He asks something over the phone and acts completely differently in writing. It's still manipulation. It's still dishonest. It still doesn't jive with the creed they have publically declared. And no, I don't give a tiny little rat's azz about JAL or CES - but I DO have friends that have been affected by this debacle - those are the people I care about.

No, thanks...

I was allowed to finish my time in residence because a person who left while in-rez and was totally paid up wrote a letter requesting his funds be used to my account. That was 1983.

Thanks Eyes! This post woke me up. I've been making some serious mistakes lately and this put them all in perspective. For some reason I keep thinking about David when he was about to go into battle with Goliath. He felt so uncomfortable in the armour they tried to put on him. I can only imagine why... it must have been too big, too heavy, too cumbersome, too NOT HIM. Instead he chose what he knew - 5 smooth stones and a slingshot. When David finally battled Goliath it was totally him and his trust in God that went to do battle. I know this isn't a battle here - but all too often I find myself trying to wear someone else's armour instead of sticking with what I know. I'm learning to move ahead with what I know and who I am, and I'm learning how to do that without fitting in someone else's idea of who and what I should be. It's a lot easier to move on if you're not encumbered with someone else's baggage.

If - you know me and If - care about me Then - I'll be glad to communicate with you. However - JAL had no problem asking for CES business to be posted here where there was a mix of people who he did not know and who do have screen names. It's a game. It's bait. It's dishonest.

Some thoughts here... First, this last page holds some of the best posts I have ever read here at GSC. Rascal - I think that last post put it all in perspective for me - and anyone with ears to hear. Thank you. T-Bone and Eyes - I'm proud to know you and call you friends. Lifted Up - thanks for your measured insight here on this thread. Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to see through the emotion - you do that very well. Johniam - I know you don't look for kudos - but I agree with Eyes on your last post - it was one of the most honest posts I have seen from you. Now - for my point: We sometimes forget that in Genesis after God was done with everything, including Adam and Eve - he said, "It is very good." It is very good. The whole package. Man, woman, emotions, individual thought - all of it is very good. He said this even though He knew they (we) would not obey Him. The "problem of emotions." I say this with the greatest amount of sarcasm. Emotions are held in contempt on a regular basis. The "get over it" and "just deal with it" crowd seems to gather whenever they are tired of talking about something. This doesn't only happen here at the cafe. As Eyes said, sometimes the cry to get over it is made because the person crying out is just too loud, too emotional, too anything that the listener isn't ready to deal with. I have witnessed a father spank his daughter - only to then shout at her, "GET OVER IT!" when she cried too long and too loud. I have witnessed the same man emotionally abuse his wife, only to ask, "How long are you going to let this ruin your life? A day? A week? A month? Just how long? When are you going to get over it? I have." Obviously, in this case the cry to move on was to alleviate guilt on his part. Telling someone to move on is not the same as helping someone to move on. In the cases sited above, the man could have comforted his child and wife. He could have done many other things, but self-preservation and his own guilt prevailed. Emotions drive us to do things our logic would never consider. Emotions are responsible for medical advancements, scientific discoveries, and acts of heroism. How many times does an act of heroism get described as, "That was stupid! - but I'm sure glad you did it!" Yes, there is a flip side to all of this - emotions can be out of control and be the cause of unjust acts as well. Wars, murder, evil acts all stem from negative emotions. Controlling one's emotions really is not as necessary as building one's character, IMHO. I guess my point is that if God was able to finish His work and proclaim it "very good" - emotions and all, perhaps we should not be in such a hurry to condemn emotional responses. I heard several teachings to the effect that God has a very small agenda - that of salvation. Everyhing else is just what He has to endure because of our sin nature. I used to buy that. Now I look at things a different way. It's hard to put into words here - and I've already made some statements that I'm sure will be misread and picked apart. BUT - I now tend to believe that God built mankind to be successful in everything. That would have to include thinking outside the box and learning from failure. Sorry for the rambling post... I suspect someone will bring it back to the topic.

There is a fine line here. It's late and I'm tired, so I'm not getting into it now. I have no problem with wealth and success. I do think that there is a point where greed takes over. Can I define that point? NO. Does that mean it doesn't exist? NO.

I thought that God did have a problem with Solomon's lifestyle. OTOH - there is a difference between being the King of a nation and being a minister.

You're assuming of course that JAL doesn't know exactly who DWBH is... Isn't it possible that you'remistaken concerning DWBH's motives and reasons?

Could you not look at her lifestyle and see how she lives? There is comfortable and then there is very comfortable, then there is "got more money than sense."

Not to mention that JAL helped put wings on that stuff flying around cyberspace about him and his personal life...

JAL has a post over on J*hn Rich*ards*n's site, tis true. He has the same message on his profile as he does here in that letter: "I'm so busy! If you want to talk to me either call me or email me." Those who have been in his presence but not "graced with his favor" know that he likes to be in control of everything. JAL is a classic manipulator of information. In a crowd, he risks not being able to discredit the person who repeats what he says. The bully tactics don't work so well when many see them and can call him on them. Quite frankly, I don't think he will ever show his face here. It matters not what vows he has made. That doesn't mean that his feet shouldn't be held to the fire.

Just a drive-by post here... I once attended a church that never passed any kind of money-holding recepticle. No plate, basket, charger, horn - nothing. There was a wooden mainbox looking thing at the back and people put in what they wanted to put it. There was no pressure and no requests for money. I also have a friend that attends a church in Kansas. The ministers keep their day jobs and trade off duties. On top of that, they live simply - no extravagance whatsoever. They feel like they need to let as much as much money as possible go to the church.

The Lady Fingers had to be caught by Ex10's hubby.... I'd make that dessert again. It was totally worth it!

An update on both girls: I just got this regarding my younger daughter: And on TOD: On the Tuesday following the BBQ, we went to recieve her reward. She got a trophy, a medal, a certificate, a check for $75.00, and hugh kudos. The director of Fine Arts for the school district has known about TOD since she was in grade school. She commented on the fact that TOD has been impressing her for years. It's been a great month for both girls. For me...well, I've always been proud of them.

At a similiar type of sharing at Emporia, one gal was sharing on "the Tracker guy" and how sharp he was. She said something to the effect that he knew how to sneak up on someone. Vp was at lunch that day and all of a sudden we heard him come over a separate mike, "He could never sneak up on me. Father would tell me." The woman just shut up and looked embarassed. The reason for her sharing had just been taken away from her. Not the same kind of face-melting, but still quite embarassing. It didn't matter what he was promoting because ultimately vp was always promoting himself.

It was in my line of sight though...LOL

There's that word again....