doojable

Brainfixed - I think you're reading too much into Tzaia'a "moot point" comment. I highly doubt she is trying to moot your points. I suspect it's much more likely that she is mocking the things that twi taught - and how the fear they tried to instill about "being outside the hedge of protection" is a moot point (the fear is a moot point) once you realize that there is no hedge of protection to be outside of to begin with. There is no dragon to fear - so the fear of a dragon is a moot point. WHOA! Wait a minute there! Paw sets himself up as a father figure???!!! Uhhhhh.... no. He's never even tried to put himself forth as a father figure. Maybe you've gotten that idea from the nickname/screen name "Paw" from "Pawtucket" but in no way, shape or form has Pawtucket lulled people into trusting him with their very lives for an answer for anything. If anything, Paw has been fairly hands off and steps in only as a last resort. He seems to realize that lots folks need to vent in lots of different ways and he allows it - up to a point. The "motorcoach thing" was about betrayal. der Victoid betrayed the girls he drugged because they trusted him to know better and to do better and to teach them better. The context of RR's statement has nothing to do with rape and sexual abuse. I don't put my life out there for all to read, and I never will. I will say that one day when I was particularly down and wishing life were different and going through the "if only...hadn't done... things would be different..." my aunt stopped me dead in my tracks and told me that there were people in the world who had a much harder life and had overcome. "From this moment on your life is YOUR'S! No excuses. No blaming anyone else," is what she said to me. That woke me up. I would never minimize the severity of sexual abuse - or any abuse for that matter. I hope it doesn't appear that that's what I'm trying to do now. However, I suspect that for you to have overcome in any sense of the word, you have had to work at not making everything in your life somehow relate to being abused. I suspect that you don't make everyone in your life pay for what someone else did years ago. I never read the motorcoach statement as pointing to rape or abuse, nor does it connect this site or the owner of the site to rape or abuse. I don't mean to offend - just to offer some food for thought here... In my life I have received "gifts" with strings attached - and no they don't feel like gifts. BUT - I believe that geisha was saying that GSC is a gift to many in a figurative sense in that there is a place to talk and argue and vent - and yes the rules of society apply here. Just my POV on what's been going on...for what it's worth...

Thanks for this insight.

From Wikipedia: Isn't detachment a defense mechanism that helps a person to protect himself (herself) rather than to misdirect others? If the above definition is correct, the second definition could be a good thing.

No you didn't really make any accusations in your first post. However, you have more than made up for that in your latest posts. Just a thought here... If I remember correctly, you were on Trancechat and Waydale before there even was a GSC. I've been told that Trancechat was a "gloves off" "anything goes" kind of place. You stuck around through that forum and through Waydale. The point is YOU STUCK AROUND. Whatever voice you found, you found because you didn't run off and hide when things got rough. On the other hand, there is no cookie cutter answer that says that just because participating in this site helped anyone that it will help the next person. This place may not be the same that it was seven years ago. Then again, how many people do you know that are the same way they were seven years ago? What can you say is unchanged in the past seven years? Okay - those of us with kids can say we loved them then and we still love them now - but even those relationships have gone through changes. I would like to know (not by name-) who the person in question is and why she felt she could not find her voice here. However, I'm much more concerned that that person find their voice somewhere - the location doesn't matter.

How loving...

I came here originally because of the "Friends" forum. I don't think that there are any cookie cutter answers out there. Some folks came here for the express purpose of exposing twi and all it's nastiness. I think that cults/religion bring out the best and worst in people. The best because for the most part religion offers some sense of right and wrong and compassion. The worst because all people have a nasty side that just seems to get cultivated to extreme when you attach some sense of righteous indignation to it. I don't think twi was ever good - just that we (individually) thought it was good when we signed the green card. There are a lot of concepts that are pretty sound that got twisted and perverted under the cult mentality. The idea that you have to make the most of any given situation got twisted to "where's your believing?" I've had to work at not having a knee-jerk reaction just because a phrase or feeling makes the hairs on the back of my arms stand at attention. Gotta run... have a good day.

Okay... I'll talk address the points of this post. I can't speak for others - but I don't. The first post says why the thread was started and the discussion ensued. I think (but I'm not sure) that the main point that is being debated is whether or not the GSC community is responsible for some people not being able to "find their voice." I would like to put forth that GSC is the result of many people finding their voices - collectively. I think of joining a forum the same way I think about entering traffic on a freeway - you have to get up to speed up and get in there and drive (or speak.) The starting point may be "the truth about TWI" -( really it's "telling the other side of the story..." )but the end result is that once you learn to speak your mind and open up and get stuff off your chest that you've been holding inside - whether it's questions or situations - is that you find your voice. While anyone finding their own voice is good for them - it's a sure thing that NOT everyone will be happy with everyone else's voice being heard or spoken. There will be conflicts. I haven't said anything earth shattering... I can't speak for others - but I don't. There are games, recipes, jokes, general weirdness and the stuff that goes with being human. Then again, I don't recall a claim being made that the only thing discussed is "the truth about the way international." Again - nothing earth shattering... Yes and no. A lot of folks joined GSC not because they wanted to "tell the other side of the story" or even hear it. A lot of folks (me included) joined for the sole purpose of finding some old friends. I did end up finding old friends and making new friends with the bonus that I found my voice - but that came from jumping in the discussions and taking a few knocks on the chin from doing so. Yes that is "healing" if you want to call it that. Now - did I get healed of some disease because of GSC? No. I did find that I had some things to change. That came from interacting with other folks who had been there and done that. Yet again - nothing earth shattering... I can't speak for others - but I don't. I don't agree with your statement. But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't agree. Nothing earth shattering here either folks, move along... I don't understand what this statement refers to. Feeling "duped" usually follows being tricked into something. Initially, I didn't comment on the rest of the post because I felt that all the previous points were for other folks to answer for themselves - internally. The questions read like rhetorical questions meant to make folks think. My thoughts weren't really necessary. I only posted them here because you seemed to think I had some ulterior motive or need to control or trick... I don't. I don't know you and you don't know me. I ask questions because I want to understand where a person is coming from rather than make broad generalized statements. TWI was famous for making such statements. So when I read: The one line I picked out was the only question I had. I didn't ignore any of the rest of your post - I simply didn't feel that I had anything to add or say about the rest of the post. I really wish you would ask me something rather than make a statement that is also an insult. The way you feel is the way you feel. Period. That makes it important to you. The fact that you say how you feel here on this forum means that you either have found your voice or are in the process of doing so. I happen to agree with you on some matters and disagree with you on others. C'est la vie. I was in TWI as a young adult through my thirties. I had a much different time in than you did. When I was in - the way to control someone was to assume you knew something because you had revelation. Lots of bad assumptions became bad rumors and ruined lives because no one bothered to simply ask and listen. Now in my book, that's controlling someone. I won't do it. If that means you want to assign some bad motive to my asking a question - so be it - but I would rather tick you off because I don't want to assume I know something than make an accusation that ends up becoming a rumor. Now, I think I've gone full circle as to the point of this thread... *EDITED TO ADD* I think I've fully (and publicly) considered your post and your feelings. I'll keep considering your feelings Please return the favor.

Just wondering... why do you think that some people here find healing and/or make friends?

So you think that there were promises made when you joined GSC? I'm not sure who or what you're referring to as "snooty." Justify what with logic? Perhaps you should stick to your own words and let everyone else speak for themselves.

Why do you feel duped? Were you promised something if you posted here? Did someone tell you about this site and say it had magical powers? Or did you make a free will decision to read and post? Just wondering... Not accusing at all - but you sound like you were somehow tricked into participating here.

It's entirely possible that the person in question got "in" when they were 18, spent 30 years in (til he/she was 48) and now, nearly 5 years later, is 53. It makes little difference. My point is that it's very easy to "project" our feelings and situations onto someone else. BUT - if that's the case (that the person is now 53) then all the following scenarios you stated don't apply. On the point of compassion - sometimes (note that I said sometimes) the most compassionate thing you can do is give someone a verbal slap in the face to wake them out of their stupor. I think the reason the mission of the site keeps getting repeated is that this has never been put forth as a place to heal Granted, people have found healing but only through hearing and telling the other side of the story. In my case, the only way I could find my own voice was to engage in the heated discussions. There was great freedom in expressing a differing opinion and having to defend it. I realize everyone has their own journey, but perhaps there is more than one person here that found their voice in the same manner I did. Lots of conjecture. Lots of "what ifs" and "if onlys"...

No, not really. The phrase is immaterial, as far as I'm concerned. What makes me bristle is the concept that something (or someone) is supposed to be the magic potion to fixing problems. We signed a green card because of that mentality. People make all sorts of poor choices due to that mentality - from buying a car based on the promise that it will make you sexier to following some guy who promises health and prosperity (after he gets his, of course.) So back to the beginning of the thread... If a person really needs to find their voice and GSC isn't helpful, well then, that person should find what helps him or her find his or her voice - GSC or not. I'd say that GSC is a place where folks can use their voices - but even a cursory reading before signing up told me that I had better go get my armor. Is that bad? I don't think so. All it means is that I wanted to enter a community where others were used to disagreeing with each other - rather rambunctiously, I might add. BUT - the freedom they exercised in expressing themselves was ...invigorating, funny, witty, and thought-provoking all at the same time. The moment I rely on someone or something to meet a need for me - I offer the possibility that someone or something else can control me. I dunno... Wanna' find your voice? Do what helps. Wanna use your voice? Come to GSC and speak your mind, without fear of your "needs" being withheld like some ransom.

True Tzaia. I've seen other threads talk about "meeting needs." Even if that set of words weren't strung together, the concept was alluded to early on in the thread. BTW - I wasn't directing my post to you or anyone in particular - just the concept.

"Meet needs?" WTF? I left the mentality of something (or someone) meeting my needs long ago. That seems like a recipe for inviting someone else's control. Sites might serve a purpose in my life - for a period of time, but never meet my needs. Perhaps the concept of should be considered suspect. Afterall, it was TWI that instilled in us the concept of something meeting our needs: a class, an advance, a program, a MOG.... Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and turned it into a dusting rag, Thank you very much.

Shellon, Life has kept me very busy lately, but I stopped in and read your story. Words fail to really describe my emotions here. The road to freedom and expressing freedom has some real twists and turns - doesn't it? Thank you for putting your story out there. dooj

The recipe is simple: 60% meat/eggs - I used ground turkey and hard boiled eggs - NOT over cooked - you can make it raw - but I wasn't that brave 20% grain - I used oat bran soaked in water for 24 hours (1 part bran to 2 parts water- so if I used 1 cup of bran it would end up being 2 cups soaked) 20% raw veggies - I used zucchini and carrots - shredded in a food processor You can also use broccoli - but I only added broccoli when I had some extra I made this in batches big enough to last a month and froze it in 3/4 cup portions in zip lock bags. I thawed it out in the fridge. They loved it. I also made up a mineral mix that lasted months - but I'd have to really search for that recipe. It included brewer's yeast, calcium powder, wheat bran, kelp, some vitamin B-12 tablets, and some other things - but I don't recall the other items and I'd have to really search for the recipe - give me some time and I'll post it.)

I agree. This is a urinary tract infection. She needs to see a vet. This starts out with unproductive litter visits and progresses to crying out while weeing - and blood in the urine. It can get bad VERY quickly. I also agree with not feeding dry food to the girlies. You already know the recipe I made for years. I had the healthiest cats with the prettiest coats - for less that a premium "scientific" dry food would have cost. The good news is that treatment is relatively easy. Ask your vet for hints on the regular dosing - it's easy to do buy hard to describe in writing - better to see a real life demo.

WAG here .... "A River Runs Through It"?????

I don't believe that stuff. In fact, stopped debating that piffle stuff a while back. I realized that it just wasn't worth repeating anymore - even in the name of debunking it.

Welcome to the Matrix,,,

So maybe his education profile should read: BA in BS

Maybe this is the beginning of a gradual group halluncination... I'd rather see the pink elephants

Okay - I think I figured out the erroneous info If you click on the "98 online sources" you'll find mostly links to GSC that mention the word "President" BUT - the profile isn't "Claimed." I think that means that it hasn't been verified - by anyone. Then again, I really don't know that for sure.

I see the pic...

Look at his education: BS in Psychology Now how should we take that? He learned to BS? ;) He should have known better? I wonder if they'd revoke his diploma if they know about the homo purge.