doojable

Say Pond, I didn't make that claim. It just occurred to me that there may not be any real proof of that statement. It may just be a comfortable thought that many have gotten used to. Geisha - thanks for your input. I was looking for something a bit more substantial. It is, afterall a MIGHTY big claim. And it means that you are speaking for another being. He loves ALL His creation. He LOVES all His creation... Mind you, I think there's a good possibility that the statement(s) is/are true - but why guess about it? If thinking is put on auto-pilot isn't that about the same as being back in twi? For the record, I'm not trying to be adversarial here. BUT- I am trying to figure out if that belief is valid.

???All? How do you know that? I just don't know where you're getting your info from. I'm not really disagreeing - but I am challenging you to back up your claim. Can you do it?

Not trying to be a pain here, but are you sure about that?

Sister Mary Elephant is busy on another thread... Don't make me call her!

I thought there would be Billions (<====Hint Hint!) of guesses by now.

I once heard someone say that he had to stop thinking of himself as a smoker, or even an ex-smoker. He had to say he was a NON-smoker. I never smoked but I watched both my parents quit and numerous other friends and family. I'm glad you're doing so well. My kids saw some photos of what the lungs of a long term smoker look like and the progression to health after quitting. They swear they'll never start.

But will we get badges?

That's a good perspective ADan - and an honest approach. I agree that in twi many of us thought we had some back door entrance into what was really going on in another's heart and soul - even more than they did themselves. What arrogant bs that was. Thanks for your response.

I only think about it during certain potentially apocryphal events - like you agreeing with me...

I'm not sure this is significant or not, but MOST of those at HQ in 1984 were just kids when they met the 50 year old victoid. I once mentioned to a counselor that for a long time I felt "stuck" at the same age that I was when I first got in twi. I believe someone mentioned something like that on either this thread or another. So for many others perhaps this was true - along with that "father in the word" crap... vic tried to become a father figure of sorts. That bought him all sorts of "protection." Going up against der victoid was not easy because there were so many surrounding him - no doubt many were vying for the future presidency by the time these abuse stories starting surfacing. Once he was gone there was a free-for-all scramble for power. I applaud Don for not becoming part of the scramble and not starting some off-shoot. I just don't agree with your POV here. And whether you intended to or not - there is a unspoken accusation being made. I don't see you only giving a view - I see a review - and commentary. You are making many more statements than asking questions. That says to me that you want to promote an idea more than you want to put a puzzle together. How would you handle this if you and Don were sitting at a counter having a few beers? No audience and no peanut gallery... That would be an honest approach - not this. Then again - you didn't have kids to raise and feed - did you? You weren't held under house arrest for days with guns and dogs threatening your young family - were you? Add to that that your "space" was smaller. AND- you had the luxury of leaving after all these other events were old and had been sorted out. Someone had to do the sorting out. By the time you got everyone in your space out - the real hard work had been done. I can't speak for anyone and certainly not Don- but if he believed as many of us did at the time- that Gawd had any part of the ministry at any time, then that would have dictated some sorting out before flying off the handle. Oh yea... JAL... the guy who still thinks twi was the best thing since sliced bread. Uh-huh... yea While you're giving your honest opinion - why not try being honestly empathetic. I think I'm done with this subject for a while...

LOL! Like I said- see how it goes?

Actually - that part of the post wasn't directed to you. I was responding to geisha. No problem- but you see how it goes... I only know the responses that are posted. So, I guess you're right - I don't know what responses you're getting. My more than two cents... I think this is a dishonest way to review the actions of someone.

http://critical-mass.info/

Time to get the MAL packs ready again!

Apparently I wasn't clear in my post. I have no trouble making judgments - even harsh judgments at times. I wholeheartedly agree that we make judgments and should do so (I even said so in my post.) Then again, I'm not the one that said that I will judge but not condemn. I questioned how that is possible. But - I don't want to discuss that post anymore - it could derail the thread and I'm not doing that. If need be that can become a separate thread. ********************************************* Rhino, this line makes no sense to me: Where did that come from? Twenty-four years? As far as everything else you've been writing - well I just don't know where you're coming from. You seem intent on placing blame even while you say, "I don't blame Don." IMO - if you want answers you should be asking questions and not building scenarios that fit your assessment of what did and did not happen. (I'd say you're really past even that approach now.) This method of blaming while not blaming isn't working. I have tried and tried to read these posts and imagine concern and sympathy - and no matter what I do, I hear smugness and finger-pointing. That *just might* be why you're getting the responses you're getting.

Rocky, I was thinking about the following argument: No offense meant to AnotherDan, but I had to carry out this logic to the most extreme case I could think of. We all agree that murder is evil (it's even mentioned in the ten commandments) and we would judge it as such (as we should.) Suppose you or I am asked to sit on a jury for a murderer. Now suppose the death penalty is a possible punishment. At what point does "judgement" become "condemnation"? That said, what exactly is condemnation and how does it differ from judgement? I'm not really looking to turn this into a doctrinal discussion - since I'm not equipped to do so anyway. I was just thinking... :blink: :blink: Perhaps I should let the thread just go back to its regularly scheduled programming.

And he was only "poor" on the books for the IRS. Both farms -HQ and the Kipp farm, Gunnison, Emporia, Rome City, a motorcoach, a plane, multiple motorcycles... So he wasn't poor or a doctor. That only leaves "old."

Just a thought: If you carry out the "I won't condemn" thing too far you have a problem. What about sitting on a jury for a murderer? I'm more willing to say that I get to use my brain and common sense and assess people and situations as they arise. Will I always get it right? Nope.

We had a Dalmatian. She was a constant companion to my kids, so I'm fairly biased.

"I wrote the same, but in different words..." That just about says it all, doesn't it? Thanks dmiller.

I saw that movie several times while I was in college. I've thought of it many times since... Thanks Chas

So has quitting cigs caused you to eat more?

Here's a major clue: The singer's stage show featured guillotines, electric chairs, fake blood and boa constrictors. Rubber little lady, slicker than a weasel Grimy as an alley Loves me like no other lover

Look at my two links on page 1.

When you think about it, the manifestations were really all he *had.* Everything was built on them - including the authority vp claimed. After all, if you questioned revelation, you were questioning Gawd himself. And I was thinking... has it occurred to anyone else that der victoid had the biggest title? Sure there were the revs - but HE was *Doctor* and *The Teacher.* I don't even recall him using the title of "doctor" when addressing an MD. Now that I think about it, WHY the Hell did these subjects not raise major red flags? Maybe in the end he didn't really have enough material to fill the two weeks, so he needed some filler material.