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Sorry Cowgirl - for some reason I can't see the mural you posted. I bet its great though. Jonny Lingo: I have found that everyone can draw to some extent. I always say that there is a technical side and a passionate side. If you were in Texas I'd give you eight lessons and you'd be surprised at how well you could draw. Of sourse there's always the fact that not everyone WANTS to draw or take the time (and frustration) of drawing. Thanks for all these posts. I heard a quote by Jackie Kennedy. I'll have to paraphrase it: "After a storm all the birds sing. People also deserve to find happiness in whatever sun they can find." I feel like in the wake of TWI it is up to each one of us to reclaim our lives and passions and "find our sun." Anyway, keep on posting art folks - this is great!

These are GREAT!!!!!! What wonderful beads! I especially love those Cape Cods. It seems like you really havne't lost much by not attending Art school. I'm going to Maine nest summer - if there is anyway that we can stop off in Cape Cod I'd love to see the work in person. Is that possible?

Ahhhhhhhh - now I get it. I have never heard anyone disparage Walter for that or any other reason. See I can be a little dense - I'll just go and so another painting.

Hey rascal - I'm sorry but I think you're wrong here. "Fruit" is not the evidence of the Christian - it is the evidence of the HEALTH of a Christian. An apple tree is an apple tree even if it has no fruit - but it is avery unhealthy tree if it bears no fruit - and is in need of some severe pruning and care. "By their fruits ys shall know them." well that's easy - apples =apple tree, peaches = peach tree fruit of the spirit = spiritual person And to be fair - whatever you know or don't know about Om unless you ahve spent time with him in person, you probably dont' know him well enough to speak about any fruit in his life.

When you get back tell us all about it . I want to visit my home vicariously through you :)

Alright - here we go again. The first of these is of of my other daughter. The second is a Koi pond at a nearby seminary. As you can see I am quite impressionistic. I prefer people to landscapes. Now who's next......

so who goes now?

Ok, sorry - Sometimes it is hard to really get what is being said. My hubby is an English major and he picks written pieces apart. I read and try to hear a voice behind the writing. Guess I "heard it wrong." Again, I apologize. You wrote: "I/we know that there was sin/practical error by one of the teachers. I don't know about the other so until I do I will refrain from comment" I can tell you personally about at least 2 other teachers. One I have already shared about. The other I heard about in "excited utterance" by a corps sister who was accosted by a region leader. For those of you who who are about to cry, "Hearsay!" let me enlighten you that "excited utterance" is an exception to the hearsay rule. (Hubby is also a lawyer.) Thanks for your insistance on accuracy and not wanting to spread rumors.

I googled and here's what I found: THE FOUR IMMEASURABLES Boundless Heart presents a unique interweaving of teachings on the Four Immeasurables and instruction on quiescence, or shamatha, meditation practices. Alan Wallace's teachings on the Four Immeasurables are based on Buddhaghosa's Path of Purification and address the cultivation of loving kindness, compassion, equanimity, and empathetic joy. It is a rich suite of practices that open the heart, counter the distortions in our relationships to ourselves, and deepen our relationships to others. On these foundational practices of Theravada Buddhism, Alan brings to bear the insights and approaches of the Tibetan tradition. Juxtaposed with the Four Immeasurables, he presents teachings on shamatha meditation practice to empower the mind and render it "fit for service." His meditation instructions provide the steps for the complete achievement of shamatha. This book is based on teachings given during a week-long retreat at a remote and beautiful site in the Eastern Sierras, and in its tone we experience the intimacy and focus of the setting. In addition to Alan's unique style of presentation, blending vivid story-telling with incisive analysis, the book includes both guided meditations and lively discussions in which the participants grapple with the implications of these teachings for their own lives. Boundless Heart, B. Alan Wallace, Snow Lion, 183pp, $14.95 Can I have my cookie now? :)

Ex - I never said that the teaching meant that there was proof that these men didn't follow the "do as I say - not as I do" way of thinking. I actually found it ironic that this doctrine was made public at a CORPS night - while many who had already been through the corps and were even ordained had violated this scripture. So WD - it matters not that this teaching can be documented - I'm sure you realize that many bad things happen with no documentation at all. The documentation to the contrary is what many women have already said - tho not neccessarily here on this thread - I don't think you're going to find any evidnec of the worng doing on a teaching tape or in the University of Life.

Anyway...... Anymore art or artists out there? If not I'll post another one of my pieces again - I'll do it! You've been warned! :)

I might be wrong - or dense - or just hopeful......buuuuuutt....... It seems to me that this thread is a sort of "tag poetry" the type of thread that song writers and poets would like to post on - not a doctrinal thing, not a complaining about the way thing at all (Which is why I never posted on it -I'm not a poet - But I have been reading it.) So lets stop straining at gnats about what a "boundless heart" might be. I don't know Am I Right? Guys? :)

Then of course there are the GLASS (?!?) ones I don't have. WTF?

I paint on Masonite as well! I used to only paint on canvas - and I still like it - but Masonite is great because it cannot be punched through from behind. I prepare my own - what about you Ron? I actually do not give it a glassy finish - I get a rough finish in the gesso so that I can still have some texture for the brush and paint to grab.

Thin Lizzy = It sounds like TWI is lucky to have you. i hope they don't burn you up and throw yu out like they did to so many others. Please keep your head on straight and rmember that your only true allegainces lie with God - If compromises need to be made just make sure that your first priorities are kept. You will be in the prayers of many of us - I am sure.

No -I'm not. If I were your mother you'd be different. I'm just trying to be one of those"multitude of counselors" the Word speaks about - but hey if you like beng in the middle of a fire fight - well that's up to you.. -bye - i'm done

Um John (ie Mr Pot) this is Mr Kettle - I'm calling to tell you - well you know... Now name calling doesn't negate your wrong - and you know it. You can't have it both ways. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. If you want to talk about how much scripture you know then you also have to show that you know HOW TO OBEY IT!!!!! other wise it really doesn't matter what you know - or how much you've forgotten. Besides - that's an unproveable statement. It seems that once rascal laid off of you, you turned your attack onto someone else - Do you just live to fight? Come on - surely you have better ways to use all that scripture you know - the stuff you haven't forgotten - than to tear down a fellow believer. All this knowledge and intellect and you resort to name calling and schoolyard politics?? TSK TSK Now the subject was: How many TWI leaders follow the sex doctrine of VPW? Do have something to add to that? If not then why wear yourself out with all this broo ha ha? It comes across as a"Bait and switch" - you bait the posters and switch the topics. What's up with that?

Allan wrote: If one DARES talk about people getting over something that happened 20 years ago one is labelled an insensitive so and so..don't you get it Johniam..? these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO. Umm this might seem a bit obvious -but the time it takes to post on even TEN threads here leaves plenty of time to live a life and move on. Allan and Johnjiam et al: I think you severely underestimate the effect that sexual abuse has on a person - I'll leave room for a man to get sexually abused as well. One can move on but still have a missing part of the past to contend with. I know this to a much lesser extent than Exie and some of the other women who post here. Ultimately, it really doesn't matter who's right or wrong here - because this seems to have become a pi$$ing match. None of this is somethng that God would be proud of. You guys treat each other like dirt and then wrap yourselves up in scripture and "righteous indignation" to justify it. ( I guess I've just eliminated any cliques that might have wanted ME around - huh) Allan and Johnjiam - play nice you can get your point across without stooping to foul play. Rascal et al - you're better than this (I believe)- play nice too This reads like a schoolyard fight and at this point no one knows who's right and who's wrong - all anyone knows is that THEY NEED TO BE HEARD!!!!! Weirwille and a lot of his cronies did wrong to a lot of people. FINAL! If it still hurts and they want to talk about it - what difference is it to you? I wasn't hurt in the same way - but eventually I was hurt. I wouldn't really even tolk about it much - and I'm not going into it anymore. But that doesn't negate what these others are feeling. You say it didn't happen to you - Woo HOOOOOOOOO! (That's rejoicing - not sarcasm) If you don't like what they have to say, don't read it. Just because you're tired of reading it doesnt' mean they are over it. Neither does it mean that they don't have a life - its just not YOU"RE life. I don't know - and I'm not accusing - but one could believe that thou dost protest too much.....

Um - Johnjiam, I'm going to have to wiegh in here. I don't know you - i've jsut read a lot of posts back and forth to you and from you. I'm not in any"clique" yet. (If the story of my like follows suit I won't be either - I'm just not a "clique" kind of girl ) I gotta say that you come off as a horse's arse - and THAT horse has blinders on. I will correct statements made by you and others: VPW didn't save your lfe, neither did you, neither would Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger or any other man - nor any other class. GOD saved your life through Jesus Christ. Classes don't save lives, retreats don't save lives, programs don't save lives. I'm not sure where the concept of political correctness came in - but I don't realy think it applies here. It seems like you are using the "ad hominum" attack in reverse so that you can come across as a victim. You aren't a victim here nor were you. I don't really think that Exie and other women need to "whine" in order to be healed. They are healed already. But it is possible to continue to remember a hurt long after the healing has happened. Since this is a forum, and the topic is what it is: if you don'tlike it well choose another topic. It seems like you came here looking to pick a fight - and now you're cornered and you're lashing out - and not doing very well at it either I might add.

Aren't the rest ot the words: "And while we are dancing The candles are burning low. One for each night They shed a sweet light To remind us of days long ago" "Oh Dreidel Dreidel Dreidel..." "I have a Littel Dreidel" - Title paossibilities ?

Rascal - my heart goes out to those girls. I do have one question: you stated that some were kicked out immediatley - are you referring to those who "read the riot act" or those who didn't? i t really doesn't matter really - but I'm just wondering about how much they treated women as "paper sacks." While I was in the process of leaving TWI a local "MOG" - "KS" - tried almost the same thing with me - no back rub- just tried to corner me in a kitchen and tell me that I needed to have a "real man" Too yukky to go on... I was drunk but not so drunk that I was stupid. I pushed him off of me and ran into the living room where a bunch of friends were - thinking they were sitting around with their eyes closed to what was going on. They weren't - they were just oblivious. Months later when I confronted this guy he just looked at me as innocently as he could muster and told me that he couldn't remember anything like that. I informed him that I was there and if he couldn't remember it it was because he must've been possessed - BUT IT HAPPENED. Later that month he told a bunch of lies about me and my new hubby and tried to say what I was going to tell people. (Which I was willing to keep quiet) Only thing was he was making light of it like I had misunderstood his actions. later on I found out the real reason why he decided to oust me - you see I had found out about as least 2 other women that he had boinked. He knew that I was fairly respected and he knew I could put 2 and 2 together so I had to go. Oh well, years later i'm glad that I got out of that outfit as well. Sorry for all the personal drama. just wanted you to know that I could relate to these girls....

I'm not sure that TWI appreciated anyone's art. I think we were all just a bunch of hands to them. Her work is very nice. Message art is harder for some to get. She probably scared the bejeezas out of the big gons at TWI. They wer probably afraid that they would end up in one of her paintings.... YAY!! you guys are amazing! Ron you're work is wonderful - the piece form 1972 is better than a lot of work done today - (frankly it's better taht anything I saw C@r*l do - but please don't tell her if you see her - I only saw the stuff she taught.) keep painting and don't give up - remember that you aren't supposed to get a photo from a painting Andy I am very impressed with your work. My kids LOVE Kim Possible! I'll post a link to the Gallery that I'm in here - as soon as the site is back up and running. I think that the end of the year is the time for everyone to clean out their cyber-cobwebs...

Ok - well if that's what happened I certainly can't deny that. I'm just grateful tht I wasn't one of those girls. I had a hard upbringing, was Desparate for love, and I was very naiive. i wasn't drop dead gorgeous but I wasn't a "dog" either. I am certainly surprised. It never occured to met that this was going on behind the scenes.

absolutely BEAUTIFUL! Socks you take pictures with the eye of a painter! Thanks so much for sharing!

That "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the King" line. I was a very young and impressionable woman at the time of PFAL and I NEVER thought that that meant that I was to service the MOG. The way I took it was - That was the way a King treated his subjects at that time. It amazes me that anyone got anything more out of that. Now you can say I was out of it - or you can say I was smart - I really don't care - but I think it is a real stretch to look at the events we know happened and try to go back with perfect hindsight and figure out where it all started. isnt' that a bit like the was TWI handled the Word in the end?