doojable

Well Alan - God made us emotional - so He must like it this way - so get on board.

I wonder.... If Jesus Is God, AND he knew this as a fact when he walked th earth as a human - then doesn't this somehow lessen the whole sacrifice aspect. It doesn't seem so easy to die for group if you're unsure of your personal outcome - OTOH if you KNOW you're God and that you'll rise again - well that makes it a bit more palatable - at least there's no doubt as to your fate. (Granted there was still that nasty, awful beating and the unfortunate pain, and the demeaning part of it all - I don't mean to be so glib, but I don't know how else to put it.) I prefer to let this subject lie in abeyance - tho I tend towards the JCNG POV. God knows who He is and JC knows who He is. They dont' have an identity crisis. I'm asked to recognize both - God is God, JC is His Son and my Lord. It stays much simpler for me this way.

Yea - we have to get together..... when is your spring break?....If not maybe this summer. I could use a good "pee in my pants session..."

Ok - so Mike these 22 items.... I don't get it. are you saying that in these statements Dr says "thus saith the Lord..." of that this is implied? I no longer have my books so I am not able to look them up - but from the few little snips some of them seem a bit academic with no need for the "thus saith..." preface. Besides, I never remember Dr saying, "thus saith..." at all, much less that they are in the collaterals. I think you will have to write out ONE of these quotes that you say is a "Thus saith" statement in its entirety without commentary. You make mention of the the whole "not necessarily all..." - but that actually implies what you have yet to admit - that Dr said Some of the words he wrote MIGHT be God-breathed. But the very same statement say the same could be true of other Men of God. I also implies that NOT ALL these written words would be God breathed. Yet you have embarked on the unlike assumption that ALL of VPW's writings were to be treated like scripture. This seems very illogical. BTW just because something is God-breathed doesn't make it scripture. "All scripture is God-breathed" does NOT equal "All God breathed communications are scripture." Heck, on some level SIT could be construed as being God-breathed... Again, Paul wrote many many letters - but not all were scripture. Like I said I'm just not getting this whole line of thinking -

Hey - at least my girls will be tall. I married a guy that's 6'4"! Had to improve the gene pool ya know. Now if i could only get them to NY so they could learn how to talk right!

I never got Flow's clue. Chas has the floor (Sorry Raf) I'll not interupt again - but you guys are a fun crowd...

Raf....--Oh Ra-af... where are you? it's your turn..

Nice post T-Bone - and HI! Also, welcome litsome! I left very simply because LCM decided to draw a line in the sand - the wrong line. I had always said that I would stay with TWI as long as God was at the center. I even tried to stay in the wake of POP. Now I had left for about a year prior to POP because of things I would rather not elaborate on now - but it was one of those things that in retrospect was the writing on the wall. While I was out I wanted to write a letter to DR telling him just how great it was to be out for a year. ( I knew that I hadn't left God so I didn't feel any guilt -) I felt like twi gave us some kind of weird perpective on life that just wasn't real and made it hard to talk to the average person. Glad i didnt' do that! Anway, once I got that letter from lcm I felt like I was being asked to follow a man and not God. Quite frankly, ( and I apologize to mark o'malley and any other Catholics) I was raised in the RC church and my dad had been raised in a RC monastary - so I was in no way shape or form going to follow a man with blind obedience. That's it - nothing tragic or heroic - just seemed time to leave.

HMMMMMM - I'm not short! You're too tall! :D Now back to the topic at hand......

Do you guys have Jobs? How in the world do you have time to write the daily treatises that you write? reading them takes a major effort I imagine that writing them takes forever. Just wondering......

Head on up to Foat Wuth Ex10 and we'll have ourselves a good ole time crying and singing (well I kinda' croak) and worshipping together!

The deal was that Raf would get the bonus point but not the posting rights.... Thanks fo rletting me join the fun - but I really stink at this game so I will bid you all adieu - unless there is a rare moment when I can get the right line at the right time.... Ciao

That's it Raf - the second photo was so small and was of a "mad monkey" by the time I got it downloaded I saw way too much. Sorry all>

Mike, I wonder just how well you knew Dr. I mean I was invited with a bunch of other Corps folk to his home - we had barbeque, each had a sample ( small) of moonshine ( real) and then Mrs Weirwille gave us a tour of the home. he had a library filled with books. And Not just Pfal series books or study materials. I mean BOOKS and books and books! He was also always talking about things he had read. perhaps books had been discarded - but the important books - Kenyon's, Bullinger's, Stiles' they were kept and utilized to put the class together. I'm not sure what the timeline matters.. I think we all would have really left sooner if he hadn't read so many books - at the time we all admired VPW's wanting to stay informed and the desire to keep searching. Mike have you ever considered putting this much effort into researching the Bible? I mean we were always taught to go with the many clear verses.....why hunt down verses in controversy when there are so many that you can get so much from? Could be soul-healing stuff... I know that you believe that Dr's directive to master the class is what should be driving you - but consider that God Himself wants you out living a life that glorifies him and heals you - not pinning down every word spoken and written and taped by what is at best a fallen prophet (teacher really,) then getting run through the mill for it. We arent' even asked by Jesus to do that. He chided the pharisees for getting too much into the fine minute nit picky details of the law while forsaking major matters of life that God wants us to live. ( Again if there were ever anyone who's every word should have been written down and analyzed it would have been God's only begotten - and yet God sought economy.) You are in the process of searching over 30 years worth of writings and tapes?????? whew!

here are some better clues: I hope - the second one on the last try wasn't what I thought it would look like

Sorry - name that flick and let's move on... I couldn't think of another clue - Oh I know denns leary is in this one

OOps I have a correction - my movie was from 1977 Raf, if your answer referred to my movie - the answer - sadly is "No.' try thinking hockey

johniam - just to be clear - I was saying that it is important to keep asking questions and to keep thinking - no matter what the circumstances. ( keep thinking= NOT turning off the brain) My experience has been that if you ask questions - the answers and the answer-ers let you know a lot about the group.

so JR was operating believing without knowing it... WTF? How does this fit with his idea of being focused and getting needs and wants parallel (dont' even get me started on that - the terminology alone sux) Sounds like he was trying to show he was some great believing guru - because he was able to get focused without even trying.. I knew him way back when too - I think he married just to get a better position in the ministry - or at least that's what I thought at the time...

But Raf - God told him to say it that way ;)

I have no problem with raising holy hands - but it just doesn't feel right for me. I must say that I am won of those quiet listeners - even in my rock concert days I just always wanted to sit and enjoy the feeling. So during worship I bask in the feeling I get and I give that to God - I also cry a lot - no matter what the song at one pint I just get moved to tears( my family knows that will happen so they all keep extra kleenex on them)

My good friend is a member of that fellowship. I know that John did not adhere strictly to all that DR Weirwille taught. He reworked things and greatly encouraged people to go to the Word and figure things out on their own. My friend has been a member of that fellowship for at least 11 years and I believe that the fellowship is sweet. Bottom line - take things slow and be ready to speak up if you dont' get or trust something. I don't see anything wrong with getting involved with any group as long as you are willing to not turn your brain off.

Thanks George - but it does feel a bit like I don't deserve this...

For my quote: I was from the '80's and starred Paul Newman.

Mike, In PFAL Dr himself sates that he got rid of all his books and only studied the Word. This cannot be true because the contents of the class are taken from the books of others. While he might have used these books to study the Word - the quote in the class implies strongly that he - DR - threw out all his books and he - DR - studied only the Word - this emds up also implying that the contents of the class are the results of the studying that he - DR - did suring this time that he threw out all those books. Also - here's a consideration. Paul wrote seven epistles. The apostles wrote a few books each. Not even every spoken word of Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour are written down. In fact, John states that would be impossible ( and presumably God didn't feel necessary.) So isn't it the utmost improbablility that EVERY written and spoken ( on tape) of VPW's would have been spoken ex cathedera? If in fact Dr was the great man of God that you claim, it would stand to reason that he would have not endorsed the things he endorsed. Paul vehemently spike against sexual misconduct among other things. Dr not only endorsed this but he participated. As a true man of God he would not have been so haphazard with the lives of God's people. He chose lcm - hand picked him and groomed him. Even taught him to have his little sexual encounters. now after all this you're tellin' me that he had one last revelation - to master PFAL???!!! Eli had to rely on a young Samuel for revelation because of his sin - I think that Dr had done enough by the end of his life to ensure that God would not have used him in this way - God's too smart for that. He(God) wouldn't use the life of one who had used so many and lost so much trust to say after he (DR) was gone to that the ones he (DR) had abused should go back to his (Dr's) written words and treated as scripture. Even the apostle Paul had to earn trust over the space of 14 years. Dr's dead and cannot win trust. There is just not much left to be said on this subject. I have worked PFAL and I have worked scripture. Heck there are those who work Shakespare and Faulkner. They find amazing integrity in the works of these Not-godly men. It's easy to maintain personal consistensy in writing - the miracle of Scripture is that there are 66 books and almost as many writers and there is an internal consistency that cannot be denied. That is NOT easy - its God! I must agree to disagree with you here. But I'm not sure I have much more to add.