doojable

Oh well, thought I knew something. It really doesn't change much other than the fact that I thought he already had a background in OT - but he didn't - he started from scratch.

You mean that when I was Catholic I was evil???? (tongue in cheek )

Raf, I agree with you whole heartedly. There is a lot that is included in the gospels and a lot left out.. You find a lot of important healings - like the healing of the man born blind which was a fulfillment of prophecy that pointed to his truly being the Messiah. (there's so much more I could write - but I won't...) The Gospels also show Jesus Christ fulfilling the Law and filling the role of the Passover lamb (I know - he was already the Passover lamb - but in the Gospels we see this unfold.) What we don't see -well who knows - we don't see the everyday life that he undoubtedly live - whether you hold to vpw's teaching that he only lived 6 months after beginning his ministry or the more popular theory that says he lived for three years - those 4 gospels hardly make a dent on a life lived by the only begotten Son of God. We also don't re the "redundant" healings. There is no telling how many people he raised from the dead, or how many blind men ended up seeing. Then there are the things that he did because he was a man - human - eating, drinking, toiletries, and the various conversations that went along with that - don't have to be God-breathed to still make him the Son of God. So I repeat - if a life a great as that of the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't have every word written down ( we don't have any of his written words!)how can anyone say that ALL of vpw's pfal series is true and God-breathed. That's longer than the 5 books of Moses. God is a master of economy - that is not how I describe pfal and the series. There is a lot of repetition in those books - more than in the scriptures. One last thing - but I guess it's not all that important. I bet you a shekel that Moses didn't charge the children for a copy of his 5 books of the old tesatament - you know the "Law Series." ex10 - am I wrong or wasn't JS Jewish before he got involved with twi? This would point even further to why he had so much knowledge and presumably passion for the OT. That Dr asked him to concentrate in this area shows that vpw not only saw JS's strength but had a brief moment of clarity that allowed him to delegate. Thanks for your imput on that subject!

Jonny, I have said before and I will repeat that for the most part my time in TWi was OK..same with my time in thecorps. Its only as I look back and think about things tht they just don't jive. I never had the "hamster on the wheel" effect - no - P@t L^nn just looked me straight in the eye and told me she didnt' think I was much of a leader. Then I looked her straight in the eye and told her she was wrong. I had a LOT of good times - but those times centered around the people I met and not the things I did or the things I learned - though there was some things I learned. So, I don't mean to get on any bandwagon - or start one - but thanks for your input. Your opinion counts.

"Reds" is correct. I had a lot of pics that had red in common. Oops sorry - I had a glitch - so I thought my first reply didn't get in.

You're right OM we did beg people like you to pay for it. That was another requirement of the program. Even people who could afford to pay for the program on their own were encouraged to get sponsorship. I remember getting so low that I was on a day-to- day basis. I finally got to stay because one ex-corps buddy had had his entire year paid for but wat booted out befor his final year was up. He allowed his unused funds to be transfered to my account. The remaining balance was tiny, and my first Twig leader paid for that(while she was in res.) So we were yelled at, worked hard, deprived sleep (in some instances - THAT story is on my Devine Design thread,) and made to be beggars. Om you should be just as angry about it all as we get 'cause not only were you asked (or harassed,probably A LOT) to sponsor, your hard-earned money went into a program that had only questionable results regarding "spiritual leadership and training." All this, and leadership kept telling all you guys that sponsorship had to be above and beyond your ABS.

top of the world is correct Reds is the movie

Mike, I'm not sure whether to post this on David's "pipe" thread or here - I'm here so here goes: (David if you want I'll post this there as well - but Mike answered here so i'm refuting here.) You aren't consistent with your claim of which of vpw's words are "God-breathed. Sometimes you quote the collaterals, sometimes you quote the video of the class, sometimes you quote a way mag article, sometimes you quote a sns tape - or the tape from Gartmore. So - if you can do it so can David.

Well here's an fairly easy one:

You know, the "rag" used to be less a source of information for us and more of a witnessing tool. ( I never got it because I didn't want to spend what little funds I had on a magazinethat just was a repetition of the same-ole, same-ole.) Sometimes it had some "new" info in it. Mostly it has always reminded me of the words on a cereal box that was written by some ad guy: "This is the best cereal in the world today!" It's got 110% of all the daily requirements!" ( I always used to wonder why "they" had to keep on trying to sell me something I had just purchased.) The way rag was always just a re-hashing of what we had already heard - trying to sell us what we had already bought into. Maybe the logic was that these mags would be out on coffee tables where just anyone could read them (God forbid!) So there couldn't possibly be any real meat in the articles because they couldn't be sure that the person reading them had already plunked down their hunnerd bucks. no moolah-no real info.

Jonny - You come here because a lot of us here begged you to return.... :B) ( and besides - you know you love us ) I teach homeschoolers. I work in two schools that are run in Churches that allow homeschoolers to take classes that parents don't feel comfortable teaching - I teach drawing. Now, I am proud of my time in the corps. It was an accomplishment. It certainly wasn't easy. I learned how to finish a job and stay honest at work. I met some great people - like ex10 and Jonny - and Al - I met you while I was in Houston in the early '80's. I DON'T tell folks that I was in the Corps. ( It really doesnt' mean anything to them.) Sometimes I tell them that I was in a Christian leadership training program. Sometimes, in private and with people I trust, I tell them that in "another life" I was in TWI. Then I go on to to say that I learned some sound research principles mixed in with a lot of other stuff that I have had to dump. I don't think I ever put anything about the corps on a resume, or on a job application. It never really seemed necessary. During the interview, if the converstion wandered to beliefs, I mentioned that I was a Christian and that I would be an honest, hard-working employee. (Remember, I am in the Bible belt - so it's not so hard to get to that subject.) I have been out longer than I was in - so I don't have to worry about going back ten years -

I want to go back to some things I never really saw handled fully. Mike, this has bothered me for quite a while, but as I stated before, when I first read the post (and many of the subsequent ones) I simply could not really do justice to how I feel about the way you have handled the text. I know I commented briefly - but topoftheworld's most recent post has inpired me anew. For the sake of argument, let's replace "spiritual' words with every day words and see what we get: (1) "I know the contents of Volume I of Studies in Abundant Living will not only open up more of God's Word for you, but will also uplift you - mentally and physically and spiritually." I know the contents of "The Joy of Cooking" will not only open up more of the culinary arts world for you, but will also nourish you - deliciously, healthfully, and nutritiously. (2) "Let us put God's Word in our hearts and minds for it alone can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world." Let us put the culinary arts world in our lives for it alone can give us complete deliverance from boring meals. Here we see that "The Joy of Cooking" is not equal to the WHOLE culinary arts world - it just opens that world up to the reader. Same claim is made regarding Vol I in Studies in Abundant Living - it OPENS UP the Word of God. Now the culinary arts (that was opened up but not exhausted) gives deliverance form boring eating. The Studies in Abundant Living and all of PFAL were meant to get the student started. They were all meant to give tools to study, to understand a huge book that many deemed impenetrable. Like using a hammer and chisel to crack open a coconut. You don't turn around and worship the tools - YOU EAT THE COCONUT. Likewise, the PFAL series was supposed to be a tool - we were supposed to feed on the WORD OF GOD. Here's another quote: "It's a remarkable thing that God put His promise in the past tense..I have already given to you..and He still does this today. Many, many times He puts in the past tense what still is the future for us." You ask where these many many times were/are. They were/are in the manifestations we have heard many, many, many, many, many, times in twigs and branch meetings and limb meetings and sns and on and on ad nauseum - for years. And I've already noted that I believe that dr's last exhortation for us to think about where we learned our doctrines was the result of him knowing his time was short and wanting to leave a different legacy than he knew he had built. He had to have known that upon his death the tales of his sexual deviance would hit the fan. He didn't want this, I'm sure. This was a TVT that HE was responsible for. He had passed it on to lcm along with many others. He might have even have wanted it to stop but couldn't very well say this in public - imagine THAT on the last tape from Gartmore: "You leaders, stop screwing all those young women. I know I'm the one who told you that it was the only way you would grow spiritually - but I want you to do as I NOW say and not as I did." Now concerning Adam and the naming of the animals. All I can say is that we were taught that Orientalisms were HELPFUL but not the Word of God. Knowing the name of a person implied that you had power over them - that is why in the book of Revelation it is said that no man will know the name of the Lord.(my paraphrase) Can you tell it's Spring Break.....[/color]

Very good synopsis, socks.

quarter-moon ( gibbous????) give us??? screwed/fried/burnt ARRRRGGGGHHHH! "Half Baked"

"Moonstruck?"

rhino - lol - i figured it out - but i'm trying to get into your "special " brand of humor LOL

You got it topoftheworld!

So - a recap in my own words: Ex10 and her hubby were told they could finish college after being in residence. After being in residence they were told that they would be able to finish their studies - but not quite yet.. Geez - for a ministry that made such an outward show of integrity and placed so much value on keeping one's word - seems twi feel far short. New slogan fot TWI: God's word has integrity so we don't have to.

What? I thought I was giving You the hints? How did he get them? Man-o-man, now I'm ticked. Hey wait, - oh now I get it. I think he posted that same movie a few weeks ago.

Most cats refuse to be part of any religious group that would have them as a member.

Hey, it seems like the fighting has died down. Well, socks has put things very well. you can't run a mininstry that is supposed to have God at it's center and not have change. ex10, thanks for sharing.

How old is the kid? and where is the kid? In any case, I would speak the adult where my kid is ( I'm assuming this is a friend's house and not an ex's house) My kids know that I have a rule about them staying over a friend's house - the adults have to talk first. That keeps the kids from pressuring the parents ( ie Sadie's mom said it was ok - meanwhile Sadie is telling her mom Emma's mom said it would be fine with her.) Even if this kid is a teenager I'd get in touvh with the adult in charge to make sure that everything was all right. When I finally do see kiddo again(not just a phone call) I would have a talk and make sure that some new rules were in place and clearly understood. This is all assuming that the child has just tried and end run around your authority. Now if the child is at a friend's house and you knew that would be part of the plan, well then maybe he/she just doesn't want to spend what is considered "precious play time" saying, "Good night." In that case I would just let the whole thing go for a while and the next time an overnight was planned tell the child that the "good night" phone call was for you as well as for him/her.

OK guys, how long do we wait until there's mutiny? I'm needing a movie fix...

I am not in favor of going backwards in amy part of my life. God set life up for growth. Growth involves change. Change involves moving on. As soon as a baby comes out of the womb and "unfolds" it is apparent that there is no returning. Years later, just try and fir baby into a onesie again - can't do it. So, should twi change and will still not return. That was a part of my life that God has allowed me to move on from. Just as an aside. Shortly after the "mass exodus" in the late eighties, I thought that it might actually be a good thing if twi were to break up - but not for the same reasons that I think now. Twi had become (and remains) very closed in. A group to itself. I saw the exodus as a modern day "diaspero" (that time in Acts when all the believers were scattered and the Word moved faster and better.) So, no matter what - i've bid my " adieus" and and my "AMF's)

justloafing - my hubby has always been told he's a dead ringer for Gerald MeRaney as well. maybe the two of you were separated at birth....