doojable

I was thinking tonight (uh-oh dangerous stuff!) Many of us did not leave because we were wanting to keep our commitment to God. When thou vowest a vow defer not to pay it. Proverbs.... We wanted to please God. We wanted to do our best for His Highest. Can't you see that leaving wasn't really a viable option? (This isn't only for OM - its for any lurkers still out there thinking that we still had the choice to leave) I always have hated it when I see how some people have the talent of using a person's wanting to do what is right to help further evil. And believe me - many of the ordained MOG's had that talent - not all, but many.

I'll be there - just tell me where and when and what to bring. PS - I make a mean cheesecake!

Om - I have plenty of compassion and mercy for those in twi. Many, many were taken in by the systematized error that became the web of destruction. I have not blamed one single person for these wrongs. I do lay some blame at the feet of those in charge - those that were in the position of watchmen. I can do this because the Word says that if the watchman sees the trouble and does nothing about it he or she is wrong. If the watchman is asleep and not keeping watch - he or she is wrong. The first (or at most, the second) time that something bad happened during a hitchhiking incident - there should have been some changes made. As I understand God's take on those in authority it is one of service and respect for those served. Yes, the people are supposed to obey. AND - that very obedience requires the diligence of the leaders. On this subject - hitchiking - diligence was not taken. It is not unmerciful to see a wrong and point it out. It is irresponsible to see a wrong and do nothing. Now if you were in authority and saw the wrong and did nothing.....well - then may God have mercy on you. (You meaning anyone who this shoe fits.) IMHO

OM - With all the questions I have posed, you can only find this to say? Yes we all need to find compassion and mercy. Can you start with those who you say "had a choice?" I can see my way clear to have compassion and forgive those men.(Believe it or not.) Maybe its because I didn't suffer under their hands what other's have had to suffer, yet my heart still aches, (aches!) for those who did suffer as did Tops did. Can you not see that by controlling the information that this had ever happened before twi was controlling the response? At the very least, there should have been meetings to warn the teams of the dangers they would face along the way and how to avoid them. - o-o-o-or, ummmm, maybe - "We will set you up in cars and you ride by FOURS and you take turns driving two staying up at a time and two sleeping." Now that would have been a solution that honored the program and the people. Teamwork, love, fellowship. Maybe it was too easy a solution. Maybe I should be the next President. (Tongue in cheek here.) The Church that I now attend sends missions to Mexico and Cambodia, and South and Central America. You can bet that they make sure that safety of their people is a number one priority. Yes, these people know that they are entering sometimes dangerous situations - but that only makes the work of the Church to do everything to insure their safety even more important and needful. Every precaution is taken. There is no hitching to a location. There is no test of their believing. (I can't even believe that I have to write those words - test of their believing ) Yes, Jesus sent out the 12 two by two. TWICE. This was not an everyday occurance. I doubt seriously that he would have sent Peter home had Peter been mugged along the way, or if he and his partner arrived later than the others. Why do we need to spell this out????? Seriously, you can't be that dense and heartless. Please stop thinking about winning an argument for a moment (I have) and consider how you would have felt if TopoftheWorld was YOUR daughter. She is God's daughter - do you think HE says, "Well, you knew that was part of the program." ?

Way small/kodak/poloroid twist/mix/stir

OM, I am truly happy for you. That you can be so steel-minnded, so self-confident that you have no need for the approval of leadership. You were not moved to be fear-motivated. You were content with your place in the world and your life with your God. OTOH - there were many, many others, who got into the ministry to escape broken homes and disfunctional families. Ohters who followed the love and came for the promise of the "more than abundant life" with all the prosperity and health and promises that the Word had to offer. Yes, this was a choice. Yes, they were free to leave at any time. Do you have any idea, can you empathize in the least, with how hard it is for someone who has come seeking love and approval to turn from the very ministry that promised to give them health, prosperity, love, a meaningful life - all through the FOUNDATIONAL class? And.. how easy it is to manipulate a person who wants approval? Whether intentional or not, a person who has been starved for love and approval - a person who seeks such from God Almighty, is hard put to "just leave." Remember, that the MOG represented God to us. NO? He spoke for God, he acted for God, he listened to God.....supposedly. How, pray tell, is a person who came seeking love, who came seeking approval, who came seeking answers supposed to leave it all behind without having to face a major PERSONAL FAILURE? This person has to admit personal defeat, and face the rejection of the very God that they were told loved them. Oh - but we were not to have condemnation.... ri-i-i-ight. So if a person gets sick and then gets prayed for and then gets prayed for again, then goes to the doctor, then maybe gets healed - finally - it that person's fault??? What? You are really going to blame that person for not believing "big enough?" (whatever THAT meant!) Geez Louise - that person is already sick. Seems to me they need healing and comfort. Doesn't the Word say in SEVERAL places that we are to administer mercy? Shoot, why is it that vpw could be moved to change after his sermon about alcoholism while the drunkard was at the back of the chapel - But! - later became that very same person who condemned sin and weakness (not to mention becoming the alcoholic himself.) You can say that these people made a choice - just be aware that you know not of what you speak. Find some compassion and some mercy.

What PROBABLY happened was this: Someone - anyone - hitched in the early days of twi. They got to their destination lauding thier experience to the sky, telling anyone and everyone who would listen how God was with them all the way; meeting their needs and giving them access to speak the "Wonderful Word of God." Now, this becomes policy. In order to get a truly spiritual perpective on the world you have to hitch. I saw this in Houston in the early '80's. One guy had the great idea to go witnessing in bars and honky tonks. Before you know it the ONLY way to really win people to the class was to go witness in bars. (What a dream come true for the alcoholics in the branch!) Oddly enough, the same guy who started the "bar witnessing fad" later FORBADE us from witnessing at all for 6 weeks. His logic? He said, "There are people in your fellowships that don't even KNOW each other, don't even LIKE each other! How are you going to bring others to a ministry that can't take care of itself?" After that we still went out - but we went out with someone we didn't know and we spent time getting to know that person. Not to derail - I was just trying to make a point. That being, that once a policy was determined it was difficult to change. How did we get away with this in Houston? Maybe because we were still getting classes together... I dunno... Ultimately, there was a sheep mentality that twi took full advantage of -as do many people in power. And it is all done in the name of the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit.. Sad, very, very sad....

Sorry, I just wanted to make sure that OM got to see this....

OM, For the sake of "balance" - what did you find about twi that WAS offensive? Just asking......

Excie - this paper is appropriately called "newsprint." You can buy huge amounts of it fairly cheap at any art supply store. It comes in pads - like sketch pads.

OM, When I went LEAD, I didn't want to hitchhike. I knew I would have to (In my last year of in-rez) - but I hated the idea - one COULD say that I knew the job was dangerous when I took it...... I didn't have to hitch to Lightbearers - either time. There was a person with a car both times. I don't remember what was done for gas money - I think there was a small amount given that would have to be enough - but I don't seem to remember much more than that. I did hitch willingly on a few occasions - three to be exact. The first time was when I went to Advanced class '79. I got a ride home though. The second and third times were to get to corps week and the ROA - again I got a ride home. I don't remember any literature stating for a fact that hitching was a requirement in the Corps. In fact, I'm not so sure that LEAD was added to the Corps training as a must until the after the tenth corps had their first year in rez. Then there was the "not mandantory" Rodeo school.... No one HAD to do it. You were certainly given major kudos FOR doing it - heck for surviving! If you came back injured - wow! you were holier-than-I. I just knew that I wasn't that "spiritual." Why did we do this dangerous stuff? Because we were young. Because we believed that God went with us. Because we were required to. Because our "spiritual temperature" was taken with our performance. Ask yourself this - Where did Jesus ever teach these "truths?" Wasn't this habit of doing dangerous stuff just another Gospel alongside the truth? And yes, we WERE taught not to tempt God - but what if you were TOLD BY A MAN OF GOD to do something dangerous? Oh well! Now all bets were off - this was like some guarantee that God would honor this MOG's directive. So now God wasn't sovereign, Jesus wasn't the Lord of all - the MOG was and God and all his heavenly host had to dance to the MOG's tune?????? Tell me - what is wrong with this picture? This is no conspiracy theory. This is an observation of how we learned to do stuff that God never mandated. (Notice that there was never any change to that policy - so are we to assume that God NEVER told someone, "Don't make them hitch this time."??? Even if He did - do you think anyone - ANYONE would have suggested it? Doesn't this smack of taking the word of men over the Word of God? Be honest now...) I don't believe that TWI is the only group that "replaces" God and Jesus with the doctirnes of men - just that twi was the group that most of us had the experience with.

Isn't the title of this thread "UNWRITTEN POLICIES OF TWI" These policies were policies that we experienced - with some consistency, but were by definition UNWRITTEN. Now, maybe it would help if in threads like this one the poster would preface his or her posts with the time that they were in TWI, and the main states that they were in. doojable - 1978-1988 NY, in res, TX

Oldies - I'd say that the unwritten policies were exaclty these kind of things - the oral traditions passed down from older Corps, clergy, older grads, etc. Sometimes these traditions had their start in books and quotes: During a Branch leader's meeting, the subject of finances and abs came up. This woman repeated that quote by unc Harry - something about not getting to a man's heart until you've reached his pocket. I quipped, "CHAPTER AND VERSE!" My quote trumped her quote. HA! The truth of the matter was that she had no scriptural basis for repeating that statement. Isn't this really how unwritten policy gets started? Can't we just as easily call it "twi traditions?" This woman made it no secret that she was part of Joyful Noise, that she had worked with VPW, that her hubby was ordained. She was elder Corps. The only reason I didn't buy into it was that I maintained a healthy amount of rebellion from my days in the RC church. The only reason that I didn't get a face mel;ting is that there really was NO SCRIPTURAL ANSWER! That, and the fact that I had gained a reputation for demanding a scriptural back-up for this kind of statement. In other words, she knew the job wasw dangerous when she took it.

Shell - I have used Bestine (bought at any art supply store) to remove permanent marker. It will not eat up plastic. It isn't water based. Make sure you have a window open - Praying for those keys......

Not only did you have to be 10 minutes early to be "on time," if you were Corps the implication was that you really needed to be 10 minutes EARLIER! Regarding salvation: I heard a 4th Corps grad - who sang with Way Productions SAY that a person going to church was an unbeliever. I got in her face. I asked her, "How do you know that this person isn't saved? Did God tell you? If not then how can you assume anything?" I was told that this person didn't speak in tongues to which I replied that meant nothing. The person could have been saved, could have been a carnal Christian. How I got away it that I'm not quite sure - but I did. (Reproving someone with a lower Corps number than I had - hmmmmm maybe I was possessed or something.)

Well....I was one of those caged folks that gave up too much. I left college in my third year - I was studying to be and illustrator. Now to be fair, K*n Br*wn DID advise me to hold off entering the corps until I had my degree. The hype was just too strong for me. I wanted to be on the fast track with God and I felt that He would help me make up what I would lose in terms of my training. That was a lie. I entered the 10th corps and had to leave my art supplies behind - with a fellow artist in fact. Three months no drawing, no painting, no art whatsoever. Meanwhile, my art supplies were being used up and lost. When I finally graduated from the 11th(!) corps what I got back was a brush - ONE solitary brush that I never owned in the first place. Anyone who knows art supplies knows how expensive it can be to start over. I took me nearly 20 years to get back to my first love and what I believe God truly called me to do - Teaching and painting. Funny, isn't it, that many of us believed that the best way to serve God was to PUT DOWN the very things that He wanted us to do. Now THAT'S manipulation folks! And that is the travesty of of a legacy that twi leaves in its wake.

NOT a Will Farrel fan - so I probably won't get this one.... Take it away someone, anyone......

what about: huh night/trees/moon nap/cat the tin/ox grave/stone i still don't know the answer - but there's more to choose from

As I recall, this point was obviated with the Gospel record of the woman who gave her last mite. The saddest point of all, is that never really took the Epistles' record seriously. Oh, they READ it. They even TAUGHT it. BUT!- that teaching always had an addendum that the MINIMUM was 10%. I have heard of the record keeping that was ushered in in the '90's. How sad. I'm glad that I left before then.

Dang! I know this one - I'll wait to see if anyone else answers before I post. Where is CaD when I need her?

They were boxes "IN" boxes - or cubes in boxes - I think that CaD had that as one of her choices - 2 if them, hence, "ins" Ali-ins Hey - I had a hard time finding stuff "IN" Sorry Tom- I got Far and Away without even realizing it - so now its your turn

TOM! You got it! Now give us a good puzzle! Mwah

AAAnd - that last sound is a preposition.......

I just thought that this bore repeating. It seems that we forget how important we are to each other. Never forget!

Ron, You are such a fun dad! Can I come vist with my girls so that you can teach them all these fun things? Lord knows that this Ney York City gal won't ever teach them how to make a walking stick. In any case - He seems like a great kid who has a good man for a dad.