doojable

slightly... As to liable and slander and defamation of character, the main point to consider is that there MUST be two elements - the intention to defame and a LIE. So - If I call Groucho a "scum-sucking SOB" and he takes me to court and produces proof that I am either lying or intending to hurt his fine reputation - I'm screwed. OTOH- He won't fare well if an investigation produces an algae-filled pond in his backyard, surrounded by straws, and a house filled with family pictures showing a Great Dane as his mother. :) His case would be dismissed as frivolous. BUT- then again, he wouldn't be stupid enough to sue me if that were the truth - he'd most likely take it as a complement. Now- as to JT- all the other talk about third hand stories is just fluff and filler. It's all circumstantial. That woman could be anyone of many. The "possible scenario" where a female just happens to read Groucho's (now deleted) statement, figures out who Groucho is, and also figures out that she is that woman, and then decides that too much information was given.... Oh .. and BTW- as to juries... lawyers are told to expect that they will be presenting their case to "12 K-Mart shoppers." ...back to the regularly scheduled snorting, sorry for the rude interruption.

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Smell his little head! There is no better way to say, "Life!"

Two of the best days of my life were the days my girls were born. Congrats Raf and Mrs. Raf! If you look at Leonardo's pinky is Raf wrapped around it yet?

Champagne and Reefer - Muddy Waters

All those verses..(too many to repeat in yet another post) and you never get to discussing the verses. I wonder what the point of this was? I also question the motivation behind starting a thread like this. BTW - just how arrogant is it for one person to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't? "Scholars" disagree on every aspect of anything worth discussing and even what isn't worth discussing, Biblically speaking. BUT - as I recall Jesus had a few simple things - Love God with all your heart, soul, ,mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Have mercy and compassion. I see miles of verses and all I read is "Bitterness and hatred."

James Earl Jones - Just to hear him say " 'Ere..." Melissa Etheridge - Great performer Jack Nicholson - He'd be twisted for sure Charlize Theron - Just 'cuz Morgan Freeman - great actor gotta think about this one some more....

I'm just poking my head in here for a sec, Mark. Couldn't one be a sub-set of the other? You know, like when we did those math problems where a circle was inside another circle. The characteristics of the smaller circle would be included in the larger, but not all the characteristics of the larger would be in the smaller circle. Just an idea I'm tossing out....

Who said they were personal problems. Geez...Abigail was making a general observation...regarding the doctrinal discussion. That was a response to me Oak. I was making observations regarding doctrinal discussion. I was taught that terms need to be defined so that everyone is talking about the same thing. I think my point was made rather vividly, though.

So, using the Bible as a reference, have you considered that at the end of the book of Job, God soundly reprooves everyone for thinking they could figure him out? How are you going to contain him? in a book, for crying out loud? How are you going to understand him? All the miserable comforters and Job are told that they really don't know what they are talking about. The problem is NOT in any one belief or belief system. The problem comes from the fact that the longer the discussion continues, the more adamant the arguments become. Who's trying to convince who? (whom?) The closer even the most seemingly loving of all get to their true nature and the gloves come off. The presumptuousness of man is astounding. Get a little knowledge and all of a sudden you're an expert. All of a sudden you're a spokesperson on Gawd's evening news. "Good night and good luck!" Short posts are answered with multiple long posts. I don't recall records of Jesus doing such a thing. He walked in, did his thing and walked out. I tend to think that Ockham's Razor should be used concerning arguments of this matter: http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node10.html As to the question at hand in the title of the thread, I'd say first you'd have to define your terms. What is hell? (that should take you about ten threads.) Where is hell? (more threads) Who goes to hell? (maybe just a one post answer - LOL!) Is there a 'Get of hell free" card and do I collect $200.00? Is hell everlasting? (what I should have stated in the last question.) Have we all already died and hell is where we are right now? Why is hell necessary? I came to the realization that no matter how many verses I know, I still don't know anything. The newspapers are filled with stories of Sunday school teachers who leave their classes and go home and abuse their wife and children, priests who do unspeakable things to the young boys in their parishes, and the many, many motorcoach monsters there are in the world today. Sounding good is easy. Living right - not so much. Good luck with this thread.

All but one childhood dream has been fulfilled. At the age of five I wanted to be a nun. . . . . . . . . . . stop laughing! . . . . . . . . . . . I abandoned that dream when I realized what else I'd have to give up.

This is what I said: How can a god that is supposedly omniscient and is supposed to know the hearts of man expect fairness from us? Moreover, why would he want our fairness?...to him? That makes no sense at all. Not to mention all the verses referring to tribulations and unfairness in the world. My understanding is that he wants us to be perfect - while knowing that we can't be perfect. Uhhhhh... real loving and kind...uh huh... yea

He expects fairness?... from us? Really? I haven't read the Bible in years and even I know this to be a false statement, akin to the trite one-liners we became accustomed to in TWI. Statements like this are the reason I hate organized religion. They are over-bearing and control-seeking.

Hey! If this thread could find some legs, surely angels could find a way to get some dancing feet.

The Bunny Hop was only suggested so that they could dance in a circle (much like the reasoning around here lately.) But any line dance would work... :D

Now what about if those angels are still in their non-corporeal form? Couldn't there be an infinite amount of angels all doing the bunny hop?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I figured as long as the debates are going on, I'd add this one. I'll need proof. NO speculation. If you can back it up with scripture or something from a collateral (since they have been cited as being part of the new Canon) all the better. Hey.. if we're going to engage in silly arguments, why not make it entertaining?

Hey OM - Tell ya' what I'm gonna do... I'm going to write a document that states very clearly that I love and care for all people. It will be repeated over and over in various other writings. Heck - then I'll get away with doing whatever I please - because only the "official" statement documented in writing is what will count.. Isn't that about how you'd describe your approach towards VP and TWI?

You know... let's just cut to the chase. This argument has happened over and over and over and over...ad nauseum. Mike, WTH, WD and perhaps a few other cast members not worth mentioning... You keep moving the goal posts and changing things to suit your moods and shore up your already weak arguments. While it's quite entertaining and has bolstered readership here at the Cafe, it's also a sad testimony to your personal integrity - not only as individuals, but as a group (gorp?) Why come out in support of a man that raped, pillaged and plundered? Does that do it for you? Does it make you lay awake at night and say to yourselves, "I've finally arrived! Gawd will finally bless me because I gave of myself willingly! Finally the snow will fall on the gaspumps for me and my life will have meaning. I will be loved. I stood up for gawd's pirate... er.... profit... er... prophet ... now I will be blessed." pfffffffffft! BTW- at least this thread has had some teeth in the arguments. IMHO - when the ability to speak freely goes south, the integrity of the place goes along with it. Hopefully someone with the surgical skill of an orangutan won't remove the grit from this thread and replace it with yesterday's old oatmeal.

Mike - I never cease to be amazed by your ability to stretch the truth until it is so thin it is non-existent. You think PFAL is God-breathed? You think God taught VPW? Even VP said it wasn't true - and this was the man who never passed up an opportunity to look larger than life. So is this the argument? : *God taught PFAL to VPW How do you know? *VP said that God taught him the Word. (So you're ignoring all the research VP stole.) *How did VP know that God taught him? God told him so... *How do I know that God taught VP? VP said so.... The reasoning couldn't be more circular if a compass was involved. So - for all you sports fans - where is the proof that Gawd spoke to VP? Anybody? *sounds of crickets*

And now for something completely different....

Mike - I have to strenuously disagree with your process. As I see it, for centuries and generations the OT was handed down verbally. If the only way to get what you see as "truth" out of PFAL is to ONLY read and minutely pick apart the writings of ONE man, then your religion is flawed. RR- LOL! I was thinking that in snipe hunting you find yourself in the dark and more lost than when you started.

It seems to me that searching for "Truth" in PFAL is akin to hunting snipe...

Hopeful - here's what a good friend of mine said to a "witch" when we were in college: "Either it's all a lie and you're wasting your time; or it's all true and you're talking with the dead. Either way, there's no good choice." IMHO - there are much better ways to make a decision.