doojable

Will this be replacing the Chat room - or just adding to it?

Here's an exerpt: SO - this tells me that changes were made after 1980... BUT - if you read the whole article you can see the Outward Bound has gotten a bit full of itself as well. They are wrong. TWI had safety measures they could have cleaned up - especially the hitchiking requirement. (Yes I know that has been covered.)

So you want to use the squirrels' tails to throw them the same way David used a slingshot to slay Goliath? Interesting....Not sure the squirrels would appreciate it though....

I never called you a caveman. I dont' regard you as a sick cave man. I don't agree with how you say some things and you don't agree with how I say some things. These are the type of differences that would be worked out rather easily if we were talking face to face. That being said, with all the rules of common sense in place lives were still damaged. Not once, not twice, but many times. Many of us were young and "full of pi$$ and vinegar for the Lord." That may be why some rules of common sense were ignored. Remember Jonny, that you had already been a merchant marine by the time you entered the Corps - you had street smarts that others didn't have. TOO MANY others didn't obey these common sense rules.

Heck, I wasn't even arguing....I was trying to remember. Not every disagreement is an argument. Sometimes a difference of opinion is only a difference of opinion. I'll look at this again in the morning...

Hey Jonny! I most likely heard it - but I just don't remember it. I don't remember everything that happened almost 30 years ago like it was yesterday. I was making an observation - not being a smart a$$.... Yes, It was and still is common sense. All the more evidence that we were so young and full of trust and not wisdom. I'm not saying that we trusted our leaders to teach us everything - but we sure did take a lot of risks thinking, "OH God will cover..." We trusted in ourselves.

In the sand!

WE NEVER MOVED THE WORD! We moved a class that was stolen from other men. We were taught to use people. Not that everyone learned the lesson well - but here was the basic gist of what was the real message we were given: If they didn't want the class - forget them. If they took the class but didn't want to come to twig - forget them. If they came to twig but didn't take the next class or go to the next advance - forget them. The real point? World Domination! ;) - errrrrr... I mean "World over the World"

Belay on! Happy Birthday, Out There!

And exactly WHY was it competitive? What was the logic there? What were we supposed to be competing for? Don't even try to come up with a good answer there. Some will say, "Life is a competition." I'll just answer, "BULL!" I just marvel at the difference in how I view the things of God now in comparison to the way I viewed them then.

Yes, Jonny that was what should have been done. I for the life of me can't remember if there was a reproof session reminding hitching teams to NEVER allow themselves to be separated. I do know that we were young and sooooo full of trust - moreso than wisdom.

Oh HONEY! You have NO idea....! ;)

Just WHICH thread were you looking for.....

I think there's a mentality that develops here that says.... "If you had a good experience that's great, but don't share it because because it's like celebrating in the end zone." MY take on the whole matter is that my life is just that - MINE. (Yes - I know that God has me as well, but I'm talking about something else.) I had some good experiences - but that doesn't mean that the program was a good program. It only means that I had good experiences. I think that the problem that some folks have is that if too many people speak of their good experiences, it somehow takes those who were hurt, or killed, or committed suicide and puts them right back into that box labeled "Unbelieving Loser." I doubt highly that anyone here feels that way about those we've lost through tragedies in LEAD or otherwise. Each and every person has value. Every brother and sister that we lost because of an accident brought on TWI's negligence deserved better. I understand that while I was out having a good experience someone else may have been hurt, and that grieves me to no end. I truly wish it had grieved those with the power to change the programs and make them safer. I guess that some would say that our "good experiences" came at too high a price. I tend to believe that. It's not that I regret having those good moments, it's that I choose to not celebrate them publically.

Umm Exwaycorps...I for one do not fault Jonny for having good experiences. I still find fault with a program in which danger was ignored. Yes, I realize that there was a learning curve. It just seems to me that as problems arose solutions should have been sought. My point has been that God did bless folks - no doubt. BUT the fact that some were not "blessed" and even died, doesn't mean that these people were wrong. It very well could mean that they had no business doing some of the stuff they were doing.

A slight difference here though, Jonny. When a young man or woman enters the Marine Corps, or any branch of the military they are signing up not only to do as they're told-they are signing up for MILITARY SERVICE. Then they are trained to do the job. Yes, I knew about LEAD, and a lot of other stuff. BUT I wasn't volunteering for active duty in military service. I was availing myself for training in CHRISTIAN SERVICE. I'm not arguing that we "knew the job was dangerous when we took it." I'm arguing that the training wasn't geared towards spiritual matters. My point was that we could have been given choices and asked God what was right for us at that time. Think, just think for a moment. When Jesus fed the crowds he didn't ask the 12 to run to town and get the food. He INCLUDED them in his work. He asked them to figure out a solution and when they panicked he showed them what to do. No face meltings. He was simple and direct and dealt with them lovingly and showed them a spiritual solution to the problem. He ASKED them to stay awake while he was in the Garden. Sure, he was disappointed when they didn't stay awake, but he gave them the opportunity to do something. He didn't even command anyone to come to him in the storm. Peter wanted to and Jesus said it was okay to proceed. Doesn't this seem like a more spiritual approach to training Christian leaders?

Ex10, aintcha gonna' ask him how's his Mama and 'em? ;)

Waysider said exactly what I was thinking. Yes, some of us had great experiences - and I can chalk that up to it being that some of us were meant to do those things. We were told in PFAL, "If God wants you to know something He'll tell YOU first." Yet, in residence we weren't told to go ask God if we should go do such and such. This would have been some real spiritual training, IMHO. We were TOLD what we ALL would be doing. That is a cookie-cutter approach to God.

Aye! Take it away, Count!

I think lots of folks were "pretty nice guys" sometimes and jerks at other times. We were young, brash, and the side effect of what we learned is that we became prideful and arrogant. For a lot of folks, there were momentary lapses of reason, for others it was the insanity that was infrequent. The main thing about LEAD and the hitching experience is that while folks got blessed - some got hurt, maimed and even killed. That alone should have warranted changes in the program early on. A program that is supposed to "Bless God's people" shouldn't have obviously dangerous aspects to it.

It has nothing to do with the person - but rather think of words that would describe him....and the amount of money he has....

So you think that you'll just go ahead and miss us.Send your regards and posts to bless us.The BBQ is more than just another dayAfter that weekend we're sure you'll say,"What was I thinking? God Bless Texas!"

And the music was better in the eighties! This reminded me more of the '60's....there was a family that had a musical variety show...I just can't recall their name right now.

NO! It was never on cable - unless as a re-run. I'm not sure it was ever even in color. It's THAT old!