doojable

I sometimes have good timing...

Can everybody breathe for a minute? Look- there's a lot of pain here. A lot of hand holding and a lot of wanting to do the right thing. Let's stop focusing on each other for a minute and see the real danger. If we bite and devour each other where do we stand? I believe with all my heart that each person in this fight right now wants to see real genuine GODLY healing happen here. Let's get to it...

Non sequitur is Latin for "it does not follow." I'm smart!

Of the quotes I presented NOT ONE person said they were upset about God delivering Jonny's dad. At best, Cid's comment was a "non sequitur," at worst it was a snide comment meant to stir the pot.

Okay - this was his last post: Here are the next few after that: Dmiller said: Then Excie said:i hope that makes sense Then, Dot said: Excie came back with: I'll skip Dot's next post - but it's not that bad - you can find it and quote Rascal: I just don't see Deciderator about to be attacked - his words maybe - but not him. And from what I've seen of Deciderator - he can handle himself.

I don't even see where Deciderator was being ganged up on??/ :huh: :huh: :huh: Larry - can you copy a few of those posts?

Hey Roses to you, I don't really like the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" analogy myself. It assumes that "baby" and "bathwater" can be separated. If you could make a "baby solution" (like a "baby tea") I think the analogy would be closer - (but that's gross - isn't it? ) The trouble is that the in terms of doctrine the baby actually became the bathwater. This analogy is getting murkier and murkier. I have to throw it all out... I went back to scratch. I started the same way I questioned things just before finding a twig. I asked myself these three questions: Do I believe in God? (Yes) Do I believe in Jesus Christ? (Yes) Do I believe that TWI's teachings are accurate? (Don't know - have to figure that out.) I originally asked myself if I believed that what the Catholic church taught was accurate - the answer to that was, "No." Sorting through what we were taught takes time and patience and prayer. I wanted a relationship with God and His son - not the Bible. I found that as long as I studied to the point of exhaustion, I stayed stuck in my ability to figure it all out - (as if I could figure out God to begin with... ) Now I pray. I live love as much as I can. I expect miracles and I try to be someone that can be trusted.

Why didn't you just "believe bigger?" :biglaugh:

I don't HATE VPW - BUT I DO HATE WHAT HE DID. Those actions became like a giant spiderweb. You've seen them on a dewy morning, shimmering in the rising sun. They are amazing! THEY AREN'T SO AMAZING FOR THE INSECTS THAT GET CAUGHT IN IT. So while you love the shimmering dew on the spun silk - there are those who were caught and entangled that still feel the sting of the fangs and the venom surging and paralyzing them. And then there are the broken marriages that resulted from this abuse. I wonder how many men are divorced because their wives were told to "just get over it" and never found peace. I wonder how many children come from these homes. All those things you say you learned and still believe - they were the eye candy (the heart candy - if you will) that drew many into a web of pain. There's more to it than just what blessed you and others... Waysider, I know that it was Johniam who made that statement. I was just obviating should that argument arise again. He seems silent on that matter though...

We forgive them all - (IMHO) but forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting. In fact forgiveness requires remembering. We Love them all. But again - we are still to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Just because I love - doesn't mean that I'm not honest. In fact, Jesus himself said that it's easy to love those that we like - it's the unloveable that we need to extend ourselves to. Here: its in my signature now, but I'm making it bigger for all to see: I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.-- Booker T. Washington

Jonny - you have yet to address my post - so I'm giving you another look at it. Here's the deal: WE HAVE NO IDEA what would have happened had VPW not stolen BG Leonard's work and turned it into a "Church in the Box." How much healing would still have been realized and how much hurt would have been avoided had VP not done his stealing? We can never say. You want to say that there are parts of BG's class that were deliberatley left out? Okay. So who's to say that they were really wrong? OR - who's to say that these things would have been corrected in time anyway. I'm thankful that I learned how to have a relationship with God and Jesus Christ. HOW that happened isn't relevant. I owe my allegiance to GOD and HIS SON. NOW tell me to get over this too...

Jonny - Here's the reason why so many families that demand the death penalty for someone who has murdered a loved one end up feeling so empty. VPW is dead - but there still is no real closure. Mothers who have watched their childrens' murderers die in the death chamber end up feeling empty because the murderer's death doesn't bring their child back. The loss, the grief, the pain and emptiness live on. You yourself have presented a situation where it took you a long time to forgive a man that had stolen from your family. I'll ask you to multiply those feelings by 10,000,000. Now maybe you'll get close to what a victim of sexual abuse feels. Got it? Top of the World posted her gut wrenching experience from lead. - NOT ONE PERSON with a heart would tell her to "get over it and move on." VPW is dead - but his "ministry" lives on; his teachings live on; and his victims live on - along with the pain and shame that they must carry. On a much milder note: I lost my mother to cancer when I was 8 years old. I don't cry about it very much anymore but I do still cry. I cried when I got married because I wanted to share the things that mothers and daughters share. I cried when my children were born because I couldn't show her her lovely grandbabies. Sometimes I just cry when I'd like to talk to her and get her advice. It's not an everyday thing. It's not even a yearly thing. But the pain still lives on, although it's smaller and hidden in a part of my heart that I believe makes me a better person - but there it resides all the same. You want to tell me to get over it? BTW - maybe you love reading - but what about that poor boy she humiliated in public? I wonder if he loves reading... Think about it ...

Happy Birthday, Raf! Keep living life out loud!

I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him. -- Booker T. Washington It is pointless to argue over what we believe to be true when our beliefs are way more powerful and destructive than any knowledge we could ever gain. -- Terry McGhee (screen name - thief of dreams)

nevermind

But I do hear he freelances...

It might also mean that Congressmen and Senators don't vote themselves raises before they fix some of this other stuff.

You want to hear something real sick? This clergy that pinned me... this same sicko sat in a class for marriage and family and proceeded to teach (I kid you not!): "Women have "orifices" so they feel especially vulnerable..." THAT WAS ABOUT THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT TEACHING - VULNERABILITY AND A WEAKNESS. I kept waiting for him to tell the men something -- anything -- that was a point to his saying that -- It never came. He was hand picked and trained by VPW... need I say more?

Yea - he's a weirdo. He says they went dancing and then I think he tries to imitate "scratching" on a record player - like would happen in a club. Bottom line - he's crazy.

He's in love with a character on a cereal box - and he's NUTS!

God knows who He is. Jesus knows who he is. I'm still trying to figure out who the heck I am - so why would I start to try to figure out who they are? I know that God is God and Jesus Christ His son is Lord. So... I spend my days living life, praying, and loving folks. I found that all my word studies and concordances didn't help me keep the commandment to love God and my neighbor as myself.

*Dooj breaks free of the group hug and clears her throat* Oldies - you just had to come back with that comment to get your last word in, didn't you? What you believe happened to these gals won't change a doggone thing for them. What you think happened or should have happened has no place in this discussion. What you would have done is irrelevant. What Confusion errr Confusious says is irrelevant. BUT what you SAY can minister grace. As far as I'm concerned that concept is foreign to you when it comes to this subject. I know that when I make a minor mistake that causes me pain, I doubt myself and second guess myself and go through the "what if's" and the "If only's." I can only imagine what something like this does to a person. I know that I was attacked (NOT raped) by a clergy and I ended up allowing the fool to perform my wedding. WHY? - Well - I thought I could be forgiving. I thought I was doing the Godly thing. Years later I realized that my silence helped him go on to do much worst to more women. Quit being a jerk set on protecting your past and think with what's left of your heart. *Has to go cool down before she can re-join the group*

Is that a garnish of some kind?... ;)

WhiteDove - I would drop this point if I were you... Catcup is a trained professional who was able to assess what she saw and heard. In a court of law what she witnessed might even be called "excited utterance," which is very strong and almost equals an eyewitness account. It really comes down to this: There are women who were abused and need prayer and healing because they trusted a man to act on God's behalf. In a way - not much else matters. Well except that we all need prayer.

WhiteDove - I have was not referring to you in the last post you quoted. In fact, I even said so. I don't think you're a Pharisee, I do think that you are sticking to your model a little too aggressively - but you have said that that is what you need to do for your life. I'm not sure I know where the "pieces that don't fit in the spaces" are for you. I know that you don't have an eyewitness - but you do have expert testimony. Here in the forums it would be pointless to ask for an eyewitness, because your standard for such would have to not include the internet (I think I have that right.) Furthermore, there is usually not an eyewitness in rape. On the other hand, you have said that you are inclined to believe VP did do these things.