doojable

Los Lonely Boys - "Heaven"

Mark Harris - "For the First Time" - this song seems to be the perfect approach to a "post-TWI' life: I know - This isn't the "Music Lovers" thread - so slap me...

"Unwell"

Matchbox 20 - "3 AM"

Okay, instead of wondering, here's a suggestion (not being a smart alec here, I PROMISE!) What do you want to know about us? (then you won't have to wonder ) What would you rather NOT know about us? If it doesn't have anyting to do with TWI - you might want to start the thread in "Open." Oh BTW- there IS thread about "Gravy" in the "In The Kitchen" forum. You might want to post "your gravy" there... :biglaugh:

You do realize that dissing Calvin is blasphemy, don't you....? :) Just leave Hobbes alone, please.;)

Move over J LO...

Herein lies the problem. For too many people, the "firm Rock of Jesus Christ" WAS their loyalty to an organization. For others still - what they believed was a firm Rock was in fact a huge pile of pebbles glued together by a few Foundational principals and a series of classes. In my opinion, all the foundation that was laid by TWI had to be re-built, in each heart and mind. It was built on study and not worship. It was built on looking to the ministers instead of the Christ. It was built on the MOG and not God Himself. As many folks turned to worship, prayer, Christ, and God - they found the foundation they had sought. Many folks found themselves going back to the beginning of their journey - that being to seek God and His will. Of course, here we are debating how many folks did it "Jean's way" and how many did it "Dooj's way." I'd be thankful for anyone that has Jesus Christ as their Rock and foundation - regardless of how they came to be there.

I was thinking they got bigger because you lost weight - but you get my drift...

Once again - I fail to see why you insist on this line of thinking. I have not once - NOT ONCE! - ever said that the plight of the women in Africa is something that is to be played down. I am not mentally or socially impoverished - and I dare you to prove otherwise. You may have posted to Groucho - but we all read it. What you said is no less cause for "head scratching" just because you didn't address me or Rascal. Oh and YOU were still pretty upset about that murder in Oslo... I'm no child - I assure you...

I bet they got bigger too... ;)

And Jean, sometimes what you read in these posts by folks like me, T-Bone, and others too numerous to mention, is the absolute frustration we felt and sometimes still feel that we couldn't do more for more people. So I'll lend my voice to those who can't come out of the darkness to speak up. Being Italian, I can talk loud and long (just ask my friends...;) ) Hi T-Bone! Give Tonto a big hug for me!

The Secret to a Holy Life: Give everyone a "PFAL Magic Decoder Ring" and a pair of "MOG-colored glasses" ... Serve up "holiness" with Drambuie...

Jean, I would like to believe that I was one of those "servants of all." I know many of my friends had that mindset. I can only describe it like this: TWI (the lies, hypocrisy, and degrading of God's people) was the shifting sand on which the buildings(the love of God and Jesus, the attitude of service and valuing each person as a child of God) of these servants stood. When the sand shifted the foundation strained to hold it together, until it all crumbled.

Bumpy - I got to admit, I just don't get you at all. A few months back you "outed" the murder in Oslo and chided a bunch of folks for not knowing about it because TWI was able to hide what happened in another country across the ocean. Then you post for people to come visit you in various areas of the world - some of them you later describe as not so nice. Then you tell folks to get a life. Like I said - I just don't get you at all. Let's take think a minute... VPW presented himself as a minister for God, Jesus Christ, the Word, and truth. He garnered respect with a class that he stole. He spoke about the "Greatness of God's matchless Word" in public, yet he chose to pick and chose what he himself would abide by. He amassed land and money and power in the name of God and used, and discarded those who were "faithful." In the end, he discarded everyone that claimed loyalty to him - POP was the first major blow to the dismantling of TWI. It was almost as if VPW said to himself, "Well, if I can't take it with me and LCM is putting me out to pasture, I'm making sure no one else gets to have what I had." He used his self-proclaimed "holiness" to win the trust of many people - some of them women who he drugged and raped. How many women? Let's say 10. (In my estimation, this number is way too small - but I making a point here.) Too few for you? "They don't count," you say? Amongst the thousands of "believers" in TWI at it's height - ten women doesn't seem like much. BUT - to EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE TEN WOMEN a piece of their soul got ripped from them. (OH - and aren't Christian ministers supposed to be leading people to salvation and not soul-suicide?) You may want to say they don't matter - but I dare you to try to prove that to me from scripture. You were lamenting the murder of ONE man in Oslo. Remember how you felt when you were treated like you were making that story up? Just how do you think these women feel when they are told that they aren't credible, verifyable, believable...? It didnt' stop there. Other ministers DID learn the ways of VPW very well. Like I said - I just don't get you at all, "Bump."

I can see how you feel that way Jeaniam. I would say that you may have put the cart before the horse in the line I bolded. I'd think that the fixating on the negatives would give the appearance of being extremely emotional... I think that for some people the negatives are the "sinking sand" that all the "good that was there" was built on. I'm reminded of something we used to say: People may let us down - but God will never leave us or forsake us. I credit God and good people who truly had a heart for Him with any good that happened.. I credit the negatives to an organization where men (humans) ruled.

Okay, Deciderator... I'm not about to say that what you described isn't "work." I'm just not sure how it translates to other jobs - teaching for example. What about keeping a house clean while taking care of 4 kids all under the age of 5? Just wondering...

Liv42DAY We worked....but somehow he didn't get any holier........ :) Maybe our believing wasn't big enough... ;)

Say Suda... You seem to be holding your own quite nicely here. You're no "sissy." ;)

Well, don't you know... The secret to a HOLY LIFE is to get the Corps to do all the manual labor for you.

Actually, I think the way it should (accurately) read is: We should want to be pleasing to Him because we love Him, and we live our lives accordingly.

I tried to break this down in as many ways as possible. What VPW said really sounds good but it almost means nothing. The Secret to a holy life is to get your eyes off your own inadequacies and onto the Father and His glory. The Secret of a holy life is to walk with God first and foremost. The Secret of a holy life is not the labor we do, but just to love Him first and foremost. Then the work we do is not to be well-pleasing to Him, but because we already are. -Victor Paul Wierwille Okay, so: Stop looking at your own inadequacies (Just in case you wish you were the man you know to be ;)) Look to the Father and his Glory ( Okay - look) Walk with God (But How?) Love Him first and foremost - It's not the labor we do. :unsure: SOooooo..... Then because we are already pleasing to Him, the labor (work) we do is not to be well-pleasing to Him. Sorry, but this sounds an awful lot like, Love God, Love your neighbor and DO AS YOU DAMMN WELL PLEASE. You don't have to please God with your labor because you're so dang Holy and please Him, oh so much. BIG SNORT? I think I need to hock up a luggie... <_<

:doh: Oh man! I'm so sorry! I did mix them up. :doh: That's why I try to stay away from this forum.

I'm not sure this is going to come out the way I mean it, so bear with me... Just because I believed something in PFAL and still believe it today DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. It only makes it true *for me.* I find that more and more I am very open to consider anything that someone has to say about God, Jesus Christ, and spiritual matters. Well, I'll qualify that with a "within reason," but then again - it's within MY reason... ;) In other words, since I'm not the center of the universe, just because I accept something as true it doesn't necessarily follow that it is true. I've seen too many instances of people being able to manipulate scripture to say whatever they want it to say. I have the precepts I have deemed to be true. I don't sway from these. I believe in God, Jesus Christ His son, and salvation, among other things. Pretty much all else is up to discussion. I'm not saying I change my mind to agree with everyone. I do, however, try to consider their words. I've changed my mind on some things, gone "neutral" on other things, and kept my beliefs on other things. For me, this is a balanced approach to LIFE.

I pulled up Deciderator's post just so that we all know the context he put it in. I won't credit TWI with a lot of the good in this post. I will say that there were some really, really good people in "Cid's" life during that time. Deciderator - God took care of you and your heart. I know you say "The Word, the Word and Nothing but The Word," - but from where I stand, I'd be saying, "God is God and Jesus is Lord." It's more than "The Word." You gotta have heart and a willingness to love and learn. You had that and God honored it. VPW and LCM were just footnotes in it all...