rickyg

Well then since you are the expert of the NK press let me lind you alittle bit of my knowledge since I did grow up there until my parents left. I grew up in the town, formed friends in the town and knew (and know) more comings and goings in the area than you could ever hope to. I know for a fact that the " Evening Leader" regularly reports on many different kids in the area. More kids not involved in TWI are reported than those that are. FACT. The same with the SIdney Daily News. (these are the same papers that have written very negativley about TWI in the past) It also does the same type of journalism. Y you are implying that there is department at HQ that purposly calles up there source at the paper and forces them a human interest story about the quality of their children. Bull! Rather a jounalist (who are alwyas looking for such stories) probably called up the school and asked if there is any outstanding children showing exceptional potenitial in the humanities and in their studies. They gave them a name and asked the student for an interview. But I am sure in your fantastic mind you came up with some cartoon world where there are people at TWI in a room thinking how they can put a plastic spin on a Orwelllian orgainization. There is no big brother in TWI spinning Rupert Murdoch style news. There is no Public Relations Dept. There may be a public realtions person who carries out these duties when there is a need but there is no group sitting around making these types of plans. Fact!

Your experiences are more for you. It is dangerous for others. If a pastor who believes that the bible teaches the dead are dead believes he sees his father walking down a street and then suddenly changes based on this experience. Now teaches this based on experience. That is bad. Experiences come and they go. But te Word liveth and abideth forever. And all yo need to do is take a cople psychology classes to find out all our experiences are shi*& anyway.

As an innie I am in total shock of that article. How dare that girl want to better herself and her community. (Im laying my sarcasim as thick as I can) Belle-you must be really off your rocker. Put down your copy of "conspiracy theory monthly" and get a clue and open up a real community news paper. A good community journalist is always looking for great stories about good kids doing good things. Open up any newpaper (no not star or your soap digest..silly) and you will see many young people doing many things for school and in a volunteer capacity. Here is what you did. Because of all your hate for TWI, you woke up in the morning checked your messages on GScafe and then went and made some coffee. You then took a sip of that bitter dark sapy brew (you like it bitter reminds you of your feelings for all things TWI). You then refilled your cup and decided to get back on GScafe. You keep finding yourself becoming frustrated because there seems to be a trend of GS cafe. Nothing NEW! Deep down this tears at you. The fact that they are doing better, putting out a new class and reaching people really boils your buns. You then sit back and try to remember the good ol'days. law suits every week, plagerisim theories oh happy day. But alas no more. You just don't get the same rise out of the usuall posts. So you decide to do a new search to see if you can find any new dirt. Well you google "TWI" and you have a new hit! Oh its just a girl saying she wants to help the sick. But wait you get an idea. you can put your old conspiracy theory expertise to work on this. Lets spin it. lets say that TWI and the "marketing department" (no such thing I asked. And if it was an attempt in humor well... ) does this stuff all the time. ya that will work.

I have lived close to the top leadership most of my life until my family chose to leave. So yes I have. And to CW my point is the way we get to know Jesus is reading the Word. The Word of God has a subject from the start to the end. It is Jesus. How else should I get to know him. That was my point. He is sitting at the right hand of God. He isn't next door you know. He has not yet come back to establish his Kingdom. He has to come get me before that. I guess I could go to church and clear my head and beg and plead for Jesus to come in my life. But I never read doing that in the Word. If trying to look to God through his Word is idolatry well I guess I need to look at my definition of idolatry. Its his WOrd that tells me of the victory and it His Word that tells me I can SIT and have fellwoship. Where would I be without the Word? This will be my last post in this topic since I fear that I have derailed it severly. Soryy Belle. Im still a newbie and I will try to do better

If the Bible says that Jesus is the teacher how do we learn from him? Just asking not attacking.

I have taken both PFAL and WAP and have never seen anything like that? They have alwyas taught that you need to change your actions and line yourself up with the Word. Doctrine, reproof and correction has been one of the most important pillars of TWi since its inception and still is today. It is the way the Church epistles are constructed! Never has TWI at any time endorsed staying in broken fellowship and sin! Never have they used the age of Grace as excuse in lessening the seriousness of broken fellowship and sin! Have you taken PFAL, WAP (including the new class)? SO how do you know what they are teaching now? Besides this new article ( it was wonderful and OM got it right on the head saying so) you havent heard anything recently taught.

I would like to know from those who are against OM in this position, If a person loses the sonship rights how do they get them back? Can they get them back? If you can get them back can you loose them again? My point is that nobody is ever going to get to the Christian walk where we are perfect in these catagories of the flesh. But we endeavor to be. And if we are ever going back in forth from sonship rights to no sonship rights thats what I call works. Why dont we just start going to a priest and confess from here to F*%*#& Sunday and get a head start on those works. Now there is a difference in walking in the light and not. And I John 1:8,9 say that its going to happen. But he is faithfull to forgive us. And you better watch out that you don't step on my justification either. Because if I have to pay with wrath for the ones I didn't recieve any reproof and correction on and may or may not have asked forgivness for the the justification is worthless. What if I die right after I committ a sin of the flesh? I guess its to hell for me according CW. Jesus Had all my sins on the cross, past present and future. All we had to do was believe one time "unto righteousness." If you take those verses in Galations and dont interperet with the clear verses on the subject you have the wrong deviding of the Word. I wonder if this is really even about the Word or if some people just want to write off anything that evens smell like TWI. But this stuff smell sweet to me!

Before I went back to fellowship I tried out a number of different churches. I hated everything I looked into. I even talked and prayed with some Mormons (LDS) All the Christians really seemed to be confused about what they were doing and who they were doing it to. ( Oh and quick question since I have very little experience in going to church since I grew up in TWI until my parents left, why does nobody call Jesus=Jesus Christ. Its always Jesus Jesus Jesus. Never giving the title he earned.) I talked to one young Christian at a Methoist church and he told me "ya Istill dont really know who Jesus is but I feel closer to him than ever since I started coming here." I left dissipointed and confused but at least not as confused as him. Then the Mormons came over and I decided I needed to go back to felloship. This came after a night of tears because The Mormons promised that if I asked God if the "Book of Mormon" was true, they siad God would give me a sign. The only sign I got was a email the next morning from a long standing college friend of mine asking "SO when do you think your going to come back to fellowship?" I wrote back "TODAY!" The first verse that was shared was a verse out of Luke and it was about Jesus Christ growing up and saying he grew in stature and and knowledge and grace (unmeritted devine favor). The FC closed his bible and said "If Jesus Christ was GOd, why would he need to grow in knowledge and his own unmerited devine favor." I knew that at least I was with people that had some answer to give me and even if my family and I had problems in the past I am going to stay here becausxe at least these people are sure about who Jesus Christ is. Ricky

I have no idea what the new department is working on now so I have to pleed ignorance. And again I am have just returned to fellowhip since my parents chose to leave in the late 90's. I did take Martindales class in and I did enjoy some of it very much. Other parts I found harsh or hard to swollow. Like I had said before Im a college student and I cannot put myself into the shoes of others whose experiences with TWI have been different. And I will never try to downplay others experiences. All I can tell is what I know and what I am experiencing. I am happy to say that since my return all my experiences have been great. And yes my FC knows that I do log on here and have posted. This is only my 11 post yet I have spent many a night surfing the memories of others. When I told him he didn't seem to care. I asked "dont you think I will go online and tell everybody what is going on in the ministry?" He responded "What in the world would you have to tell them. That were running a successful college fellowship and presenting the Word to those who want it." If anything else was going on I would be more than happy to share it and the first time I encounter a someting that leaves a bad taste in my mouth you better believe that I will let you know. And I was never pressured into retaking the class at all. I was actually a little suprised I am alud to take it being that I only recently came back and that they do know that I have been in the cafe. I was suprised because their acceptance didnt seem to fit with the stuff I read about. Or maybe I am just working with some really loving people. I dont know and agian I dont want to down play others experiences. I would really like to know what type of research is being done too. I am a classics major majoring in Greek and I think I might study some materials to learn how to really work the Word. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to really start? (beyond the biblical truths you must adhere to) haha. But That leads me to another topic. Does anybody really need to have a PHD in theology or a MDiv to work the WOrd. No I dont think that you do. You just have to have good teachers and a desire to get to the truth rather making the Word fit an already preconieved theology. That is where researches went wrong in the past (people using the allegorical method to make the Word fit the church.) Any suggestions. And I will let you knwo any developments. Rick

I am really excited about taking the new class. I have only been going back to felloship for about two months now but I am a Int class grad on the WAP. I am going to retake the fnd class for a second time. How about some positive experiences from some older pfal class grads. I think we hear enough negative stuff about Martindales class. I know there has to be some positive stuff about the first time you took the PFAL. Everyone around the country is all excited about all of them starting on March 1. I wont be posting for the next couple weeks because I will be in the class. Oh and I asked my BC and there is a new research dept. now. so Buya!

Its been a long time since I have been on because I have been going back to fellowship and am very happy to be doing dso. I decided to respond to this post because I seem to alot about RFR and not many responses to the other top leadership. I am not going to dispute any about RFR because I know little about her and enough has been said without my little expertise. Yet again I think more infromation regarding the other top leadership needs to be said because that was the purpose of this post. I also think more needs to be said because RFR will not be president for much longer. Does anybody know about Mcfaden ( I think that is it) or Mitler. I know nothing about the others. My dad worked in Rev. Mitler's dept once. I remember my dad telling me that he was one of the brilliant workers for TWI and that he had been corps for a long time. Other than that I knwo nothing about him. I have herd some things about Rupp but nothing concrete. I just thought that maybe more info should be gathered on current leadership practices. Any thoughts. What will be talked about here once RFR is no longer pres and there is a whole new batch of leadership. I went to a Sunday service last month and it was packed! And there was alot of young corps there on staff. Anybody know any young corps? Alright I am starting to diverge. So does anybody know anything on the irish guy( Mcfaden?) or not? ps. To the other innie who started this thread I think you should weigh all options and "take comfort in a multitude of counselors." Talk to different people. Ask yourself questions if your thinking of not going to fellowship anymore. What is the quality of the Word being taught in your fellowship. Only you know that. If is sucks then leave. If it doesnt stay. Because at the end of the day its the Word that you get that matters. Not that virtuous leaders are not important but leaders and people come and go but its the Word that liveth and abideth forever.

Wordwolf, I was not attempting to be inclusinve in my categorization of Christians. Every person is different with different experiences. I didn not say ever that Christians who communicate on GS are without love. I never said that you put words into my mouth. I said I prayed for the hurt hearts of those who were hurt and I prayed for those who have a lack of love (talking about TWI if you didnt get my point). I was just trying to share my experience. And I realize that not everybody can go to a "cool" college fellowship. Not everybody here who have a desire to check out a fellowship would even want to go to a college fellowship. ps. I am not "fresh blood" or "fresh money" or any other label of speculative nature that you may precieve the fellowship to precieve me as.

Is what not my intention to insult anybodys experience. I just wanted to state that for me I was ready to go back. I understand that there are many who are not and may never be. But for me not to tell that I was and that I have experienced "love thy neighbor" in my return is my testimony. What are the majority of the people on GS looking for? Is it justice? I dont know if justice is ever going to be obtainable. i was reading great passages out of Amos and Malachi about Justice. I thought about those with their hearst hurt and prayed for them this morning. Then I read out of the New Testiment about Love thy neighbor. And I prayed for those who need to let the love of God rule in their heart (the leaders in TWI freinds at GS). It seems to be the great fogotten message of Christianity. Both by members of tWi and by GS and most fundamental Christian churches. You cannot talk about Judiasm without talking about justice, in same form you cannot mention Christ with out talking about love sooner or later. Just things to think about.

Hey thanks for the respnse. I really appreciate it!. I went back to fellowship because I tried other groups and they just didnt have any answers for me. I was with my family on staff when they chose to leave so true I was not of age to know every detail of the transgressions of Way leadership. Yet I was old enough and taught well enough to be objective and weigh truth from error. I couldnt not go to anymore college ministries. I want to manifest at meetings you know? I was asked my third fellowship back to give a word of P! The FC just looked at me and asked you can SIT and interperet cant you? Then you can believe to give a word of P. That is why I went back. And many other things i cannot describe in a short post. I just believed it was time for me. Thank you for your support. Ps. If any people on GS Cafe are people with hurt hearts still yet still will at times have a desire or even a curiosity to see what it would be like back, I encourage you to try it out. I will end this post with a reverse quote. On another website there was a picture of a billboard that was paid for by ex-followers that read something like "YOUR CONCERNS ARE REAL! MANY HAVE LEFT AND ARE DOING FINE!" I will end with "YOUR DESIRE IS GENUINE, MANY HAVE RETURNED AND ARE DOING FINE!" RG

Hey I have to tell you I have just went back to fellowship and it is a youth fellowship run by college kids and it is very great. I have been going back for a few months now and I have even been to branch meetings. Not even the bc asked me any questions about my family leaving (which suprised me greatly and was a sigh of relief). I am very comfortable there and I am excited to be apart of a fellowship that has youthfull leaders who were raised through all the though times(there words not mine) yet still stand on the biblical truths that have been taught. I asked the fc how he can say that and still be running a fellowship and he said " It is the truth that sets men free and I am here to teach the truth and not legalism. It is our generations time to pick up the dropped ball and continue holding forth the word that is rightly devided. This is our fellowship and it is self governing and we watch over it like a child is watched over by its father." He told me that fellowships are not micromanaged (I never was old enough to experience them being that so Im taking his word for it). But we had a at length discussion and it was very tender and honest. I thought I would share that with people. Thanks RG

I would really like to score some old classic corps clothes. You know those sweat pants and crazy short running shorts that were short by today standards. If you have any ideas about how to get some or have some sitting in a basement or attic I will pay big bucks for them! Send me a message or give me a reply! Ricky G

The three vice presidents is simple if some of you can open your eyes and think without cutting down first. RFR will not be president for much longer. The vice president posts are also temporary. We talk alot about the need to change things but when they finally do we scoff. If you understnad that all three of them have different skills and capicities. It is also obvious that these men are lifers and are in for the long haul. I like the fact that none of them were even rumored to be involved in any of the adultry scandal that took place. Rupp is considered to a great people person and a very good teacher of the word. I got the itch that he will get the go and be made next pres. Mittler is the only leader left with any building or contracting experience since all of Way Builders left. I was told once that every single building and machine owned by TWI is in his care. And I think the other Irish guy is on the field somewhere may be New York or Gunnison?

Hey thanks for all the great replies! To tell you the truth I never thought it would of provoked so much thought. Thank you! I sat on the sidleines for some years now and it feels good to say hi. I really have enjoyed alot of your posts during my years on the sidelines. people like Belle and oldiesman... have really made me want to find out more. My reason for my reply is that many of us believe that one time twi presented a word that was living and real. Many of us have great memories of seeing the word for what it was and deep down in the depths of some of our hearts we know that we have seen things that were unmistakenly God's truth. Along with these feelings many of us have tremendous disgust and bruised hearts for the lack of truth and love that followed these memories and experiances. I know that it is totally justified. But after my I left with my parents many of the youth I grew up with still tried to stay in contact with me (some against their parents wishes during our college years). I was totally confused about this for years because their parents would have nothing to do with my parents. They would talk about everything with me too. I would ask about martidale and you would be suprised on how perceptive these kids are. Those near the top are privy to some wildly private information. I have read on how people who ask innies about these topics get the reply of "well twi is really different now." I have to say I have never got this response. They answer it fully with understanding on the horrible implications these events caused people. And I have to disagree that these youth do not have any people skills. Some of them are very dynamic and smart cookies. Most TWI kids do go off to college. I hate to be the spreader of rumors but last year one corps kid told me that many are planning a mass group entry to the corp. I guess they are developing little havens of youth fellowships around college campuses and then planning this. I just dont know what they are waiting for. I told this individual "Ill believe it when I see it." But I have to tell I kind of want to see it. Yes it is true that some of the youth get there eighteen legs and get out and go never to come back. But There are most who still go to fellowship and tithe that hard earned money even during the poor college years. I asked one two years ago why she has not chosen to leave and this was her response that cut me to the heart. I said "don't you think you could find what your looking for through another church." She replied " If you can find me a church that teaches Jesus Christ is not God, That the dead are dead, How to recieve the holy spirit into manifestation, all nine manifestations in detail, pratical applicaton of beleiving equeals recieving and all of the ground breaking research we have done plus more, come tell me because I want to be apart of it." I didn't have a respone I wish I did. Thanks again everbody you are all so great oh ya, one thing they do constantly talk about is changing all the dry crappy teachings they here at the service. They hate how Rosalie makes the teachers so bland in delievery. they hate the over use of phrases like "how tremendous, your tremndous, for your exhortation and comfort." One told me "Dr. Wierwille would be rolling over in his grave if he herd people reading their teachings at the sns." Ha! I dont know about you but I had to agree.

I agree with RC. I am still friends many young (18-25 years old) standing believers. I was much older than these kids but still keep in touch (or rather they keep in touch with me). Many of them are chomping at the bits to get in and serve like their parents. Here is the question I pose as part of this thread (my fist post I might add). If there is a surge of youth into twi and this generation makes loving changes as many former leadership go the way of the dodo, how many of us here would change our thinking of twi? Can we really blame sons and daughters for their parents past mistakes? Seriously now. I know it sounds hard to think about but what if Dr. Wierwille was right when he taught that it would be the grandsons and drandaughters taking it to the next level. I left with my parents and I sometimes really wish I was over eighteen back then so I could have chosen to stay. Even through the rough times. These kids are so tight knit and their outreach is incredible on their college areas.