pond

I have seen this in business as well. working for years, overtime , weekends, thinking you will be promoted and then your not, again and again I recently took a position in which I was promised tutition as a benefit of the job... yeah enough hoops more like it. Like five years down the line and then still a maybe. folks are often used for the better of a comapny or organization, the thing is, the focus is most often one the self not the good of the "other" self. I saw people in twi who believed it was life itself that in and of its own self twi was enough to live and be for and with everything . the degree folks compromised told me alot about what type of "leader' they really happened to be. I never understood how a person can lead if their own life is in a shambles barely able to move in a positive direction much less be any type of happy. Yet I saw it all the time in twi. I do not think it was about being thankful to God either , this serving others business to the degree it compromised your own dreams and goals. what was it about then? Loving the organization enough to sell out everything eles? I saw that alot. Why would a person forget their own life, their own goals ,their own happiness for twi? friends ? a title? If indeed it was all about paying God back for HIS GIFT (which is freely given no strings attached) then why do so many regret it today? I rather think it was about impressing the right people and hoping to rise in the twi organization ladder , a stroke to the ego and power play if you will. Nothing wrong with that.. but when the company fails to be all it promised or you thought it would be it is most disappointing. But really IM sorry but it happens everyday in business , business fail, they are corrupt , they have favorites. and if it was NOT for the way tree ladder of success and only to "serve God" then how can one be sad or disappointed? |God is still on the throne to be served in any manner you wish. It would indeed be for a life time. the fact the job of your dreams and climbing the sucess fo the twi ladder was to difficult as time went on , or you changed direction in life , well that is a common situation in life, it is documented folks will change career directions at least four times in a life time. I have a friend who is in twi they will never leave they gave it all and will forever.. they are happy as clams. they Knew it was their choice to sell out to twi when they began moving around, chose to not have children etc. and they will probably forever be in the place they chose to be. how is that anyone eles choice but their own? it really is not. I feel the same way about people who chose to leave after years of service , the terms really have not changed, they did . who has made the choice? We all have regrets in life. I do feel alot of pity for those who spent years doing something they now regret as a waste of time, it is a bitter pill.

I agree with what Lindy said about getting them when they are young. it is creepy. people in young adulthood are not knowledgable (although more so today with the internet ) about life choices and agendas. we trust at that age because frankly most of us do not know any better, it is good thing, (all the new adventures are fun!) ! just leaving the safety of the home, but dangerous when people want to use that as a means to their end. We often get married in our twenties but to a person our own age with our own likes and mindsets, hopefully and then the marriage grows up together. how does one really grow into a whole person if having made such a commintment to twi.. they are told you can not ?

I think some went into the way corps like one would look at a career. With the title of clergy being the goal , many believe they have a special "gift" ministry and they are called of God in a "special manner that the people have a need for . when you graduate law school or become a dr. you join a practice and work your way up to be what your dreams desire on any career path. sometimes along the way.. things change,. YOu may become a tv star like Dr. PHIL.. or you may move to Africa and focus on growing trees or something life can take many paths. but they are still lawyers in the state they are licensed and still DR. of a particular study. they still have the education to do what they trained for. I do think in fact many thought they would be in the way forever.. it was like climbing the ladder in a organization allowing them a better more sought after position. but the company failed in many regards and with that the ladder fell apart.. and so did the career ladder as no other organization recognizes the work put in or the education . sad. with God ?? that is the part I do not get God doesnt require any degrees to serve. (as a little child) why did the corps grads think God wanted them to go into the training? to learn the word? again I am back to the fact the way thinks they own the bible and all it must mean ... I do not believe they do . I believe God gives us holy spirit to learn what we must to SERVE HIM. I was witnessed to by guy leaving to go into the corps.. he is in ohio still, he is divorced and not in contact with his family totaly comminted to doing the corps thing. again how does anyone think this is right? twi comes first.. how does God work with a servant like that? seems rebellous to me. I thought when I first learned of this program that the folks must want to be with twi as a career path... i saw many give up a good life and actualy compromise the health and wealth of the family going into the corps. it was like a competition at the time of who could get more respect or entitled from "the way". I think many thought it was a life time with the way organization making God stuck in the box with them. He isnt. very litttle to do with serving God if you ask me. I saw that day one . and the fact so many left or are now doing nothing other than what they could have done without the wasted time in the corps, kind of proves my point.

yeah mine must be a girly pond

Ricky G. I understand" hating the churches" you have learned to question and dismiss any group that does not have everything in a little box with a flip answer. It is easier to have the answers of life laid out with certainy and no question . that is the problem tho, can you question? is it so far out of your comfort zone in life to be able to consider even consider what somone is saying other than "hating" them imediately. first thought WRONG! right? think about the fact you can not think about things with any peace or consideration. I do not want you to leave twi. not my agenda . the mormons were right when they asked you to pray. and pray you did and then the answer of why Jesus "grew" seem to fit your search. we search till we find the answers we want in life. they do not have to be the correct or the ones that are the most logical just a answer that allows us to be the most comfortable. I do not believe Jesus is God. but the answer that Jesus "grew" so he can not be God is not exactly god breathed revelation if you ask me. the context of that passage is Jesus growing up as a child. You know the priinciples you should not take verses so out of context and force feed them into another. God actualy does "GRow" in our life. He has mine over the years.. and He has in history. Noah was the only family that believed yet in ACTS it says the word which is God grew mighty. all IM saying is you can research on your own and see many many different application of verses instead of just taking somone eles word for it. it makes more sense when you can look and search for answers that you own as truth. It took me a long time not to be forced fed verses. to do the work of finding out what I believe. and to say Jesus is not God or is God , is a long debated topic if the simple answers made so much sense then it would have been over a long long time ago. but you can not really just continue believing what others say and be happy and peaceful with your relationship with Jesus |christ? He is a personal LOrd and He will give YOU answers the only isue is YOU have to trust HIM and YOU to move forward with the answers that takes a faith.. and trust in God not in what people say .

Some of the stuff ya learn sticks a long time . like "you have no friends when it comes to the word" and stand on the word. twi taught my buddies this stuff in a sense I am responsible for getting them to hear and believe it , did I know how the chips will fall? no. if that is the point then how is twi responsible for some of the less than desirable behaviours some of their people did? could they control them did they have Power over people ? did they decide who would marry whom? did they tell you who to leave your kids with? sounds like a double standard really. good question at what point is anyone accountable for other folks behaviour? does that include blaming the organization for what a few did within it to others? who was controling them ? should it not be the one who made the choice? why is twi blamed for the behaviour of individuals within the group? good question.

Jumpin Jive wow that is a beautiful picture. I feel like I live in the pond ghetto now.

IM such a freak . for years after I left I was so concerned my kids would never be able to take the class. I honestly used to cry over it. worry and be so sad about it. I honestly thought it was all that and more and anyone who didnt take it was not going to have a full life. did I buy the pfal class oh heck I would have back then . to save my children of course. that is how ignorant I was and small I thought God almighty was. Ive changed.

did you read me in the chat last night Shellon? I do not feel responsibile. BUT to me it is a loss . the folks that got involved because I said it was a good thing were friends . they still are . I do not drop friends or family members because they are involved in organizations I am not involved in. they were friends then and they are friends now . I do not hate people involved in twi. In fact I love them still. and I always will. it is easy to just walk away and trash every relationship you had and make a break or whatever.. I chose to remain friends and love them and respect them. as I always did. but the fact they are in and I am not puts a type of wedge in our communication. they do not understand why I am no longer involved and talking even for years doesnt seem to work on any progress . so I feel a loss of our frienship and type of elephant in the room . and at times I get mad we can not talk like we used to without disagreement over some of the crap they come up with. I do not care they are still in as much as they freak about me not being in . see IM always the one with the problem now and they are 'good". the whole situation has changed the dynamics of how we talk and get along. it often feels their only focus is getting me to go to fellowship... and we are friends I get sick of it sometimes. I try to change the conversation but it always goes back to talking to someone who is involved and I just frankly do not want to. it is true if I speak of anything christian they find a problem wiht them and I am sick of that to. Im christian they are christian and we were before the way.. but now it just seems to me they focus on what the ministry is doing ALL the time and IM not so I feel bad really ,not responsible because like them I feel they are missing out in life. I do feel Im their new mission from God at times. it makes me angry and I love them so it puts a wedge in like I said . so I wish I never got them involved because I miss them . they did it because we were friends mostly and now the very reason they did it makes our friendship less than it once was. it makes me sad.

A person joins a support group for a reason. she sought that consel because she wanted "support' , to change the situatin she was in, how she was feeling and how to make change. she got it. I have gone to support groups and foundI was the only one who didnt feel the way the group was heading in topics. I quit rather than get angry or deny how I felt I wanted to be supported in the situation. Sounds like she wanted to leave, he didnt realize the enormous problems in the marriage. it happens when people stop talking then how can he be shocked or blame a group? isolation and control are problems in a bad marriage. how can anyone be shocked? well because people do not communicate then the crap hits the fan when the other person finds the strength in whatever way possible to do what they always wanted to do. I wouldnt blame a group tho. it sounds like it would have been a matter of time before she left anyways. we tend to seek answers we want to hear in life do we not? if the ideas they presented was not in her heart to do then she would have left the group and tried in her marriage.. but she found the support she was looking for. and made the changes she w3anted with the support of her friends. I would think any marriage worth having would consider one another beofre any one eles opinion on what they have or do not have.

Top of the world. yeah how could she trust him? He broke the vows with her as a lover why is she so special the same couldnt happen to her as a wife this time around? I would always wonder knowing he was cpable of such a life style. But they always say the wife is the bitch or the husband can not perform some excuse on why they are sleeping with someone eles. Your friend is rare tho I think most of the time the marriage does not break up.. and the girl gets used or the marriage does break up and the lover is thrown away as soon as the freedom of being single tempts them with newer fresher without the baggage stuff. I do not know how it is for second wifes having never been one but I know when kids are involed it can be really messy for a long long time and maybe not worth it all together for the strain such dynamics put on the relationship. I mean grandparents want to see their childrens children and it is not healthy to just ditch them in a case like the one you describe. and why alienate the mom if she has been good to you and your grand children? divided loyalties I understand that. Just because the son is a slime ball and can disrespect his ex wife like that does not mean the family thinks it is right or fair and who will they BLAME of course it would be the women who caused it. I know she didnt cause it but the kids and the ex and the grand parents might feel differently especialy if they are angry at their son for causing all the trouble. she is safer. I have had "secrets" revealed about certain of my family members.. things finaly told after they kept silent for years.. and I feel the same way, I do not trust them . I really feel if they are capable of that type of lying and cover up.. what eles could be up with them? and in a sense I think they deserve such disrespect.

Im laughing about this dot. A very thoughtful post and I KNOW your not the only one. I was working a job with all women , married women , LONG time married women , just married women but all people in their forties. I was the only single one. MY boss a beutiful lady and an excellent boss would ask me what did you do last night or last weekend? and to be nice I would share my life you know oh I went to the new show, or I went swiming or camping or I went and saw my grands..I try to be positive and happy I live a good life Im single been single all of my life Yet I have children I raised some alone some with a sometimes when it was good for him and his new wife . so one day she sounded like your post.. just wnated to be left alone.. kind of sick of the marriage, but she is such a loving soul , I knew she still loved him. she was angry at some of the situations in the marriage. Let me tell ya in my estimation the single life is ATTRACTIVE! I have down days and then i go on a date or two with a few middle age guys and realize how happy I really am heehee. but I will say to you what I looked in her eyes and said. any life choice isnt perfect , they all have a down time. I am single and happy because I have come to place of realizing that is what I am, it might change tommorrow or it might not but i can not stop my life because I need a husband. NOR can I need a husband enough to stop my life. YOU can not be happy being single without alot of work and change and adjustments and yes heart break.. anymore than I can get married without losing a great deal of what I know as life. niether is right or wrong. they just are. It is important to be ok where your at.. yes , change is good but not if the change causes so much adjustment to life as you know it isnt worth it. or you miss what you know as how life is for you. think hard think long dot. the grass isnt greener . it is just a different yard. I have control of my toilet seat, but I do not have twom incomes.. it seems with every give a take is around the corner and I have thought about it , this is pretty much my chice.. until the perfect man comes through the door, Jesus himself probably. YOU would lok for what ever you get out of your relationship that is good and miss it and maybe it would not be worth thinking anything eles is worth trying or wishing for. just like me with being single.

the other day I went to a church "pot luck supper" a womens fellowship open to the public. a lady the pastors wifes best friend , kept saying or referring to "the LORD' the lord this the lord that every other word was the LORD. I am a person who has read and studied and done ALOT of bible research and stuff.. and I had no idea who or what she was talking about. I thought and prayed to God what am I doing here, it made me depressed. The accusasion of idol worship about Jesus is God concerns me as well sometimes. That righteous doctrinal rage twi teaches sticks sometimes. and then I realize what am I fighting for exactly ? no clue . I have read ONE God and ONE LORD by the CES group a huge volume of scripture and knowledge concerning the subject.. I have read it twice... it is a massive book about how Jesus christ is the son of God only. guess what still no clue. why does it have to be difficult. I didnt even know what the trinity was when I got in twi.. I was taught Jesus was the Son of God in a baptist church. so I witnessed to a strict catholic a good friend and he went NUTS over it and thought he finaly found the highway to heaven in PFAL> forsake his family and the church and everything and today is clergy in the way. man I do not get it . I ask a clergy once when my friend was fighting me on what the trinity was or was not cause I didnt know then any more than now and he said" no one really knows". What Im saying is I think both camos have confusion and no solid answers. why is it this way? I also would like God to acknowledge I am quite confused in this area as is so many and please give a clear directive. nothing yet. 30 years. much reading many sermons. But when people say LORD LORD i often have no clue who they are talking about. to me it is a personal thing the relationship we have with our personal Saviour. but the bible says we are to "fellowship and love one another about and for His worship. just how with this confusion? i do not think anyone will burn in hell for calling Jesus God or praying to Jesus or trying to understand in fact I think the bottom line is anyone who is searching will find answers.. the problem is when. In the mean time I pray I try to get wht the bible teaches and I hope this ignorance will not last forever. I will not agrue with anyone about the topic.. I could rant scripture as much as the next guy or gal. I just do not think I should agrue with another lover of God when the bible clearly says we are to love one another. do I accept what people say the bible means to them?.. hardly I was in the way and it made me so darn suspicsous (sp) of what people say about God now. I just think at least im in the park and hopefully someday soon we will all know what we need to know. and if a person is lucky enough to "know what they know" lol I do NOT think that gives them license to beat another searching God loving soul with it. the point of Jesus Christ is that now we can live in grace he provided and love like He loved us. i try to keep it simple.

so what your saying is as long as you are liked and a nice person and the group thinks your a great guy, your in and will be listened to with respect. great! Integrity means having something to believe in ,having a standard and sharing it with truth and honesty. Or we can just be nice guys and say what people want to hear and get away with murder and lies, I guess as long as you can win the "popularity contest" or " unanimous respect" you think is important. fact is truth has NEVER been a popular concept.

WRONG! Rape and coersion are CRIMES, no one was ever arrested or even Charged with a crime. It was a CIVIL lawsuit not a crimminal trial . the allens sued LCM and the way because she had an affair or sex with him and felt she was wronged and sought compensation. IT was a CIVIL lawsuit. money is the only restitution in lawsuits of this manner. sometimes people can sue a person who is also involved in a criminal court , concerning the same matter this is NOT THE CASE in the allens lawsuit. LCM was never charged by the state for anything , the district attorney never was involved, this case is about people wanting compensation (money) in a law suit only. NO rape no crimes no prosecution of anything was involved. keep it straight Rascal. why do you lie? or play dumb when in your posts you scream to know all the facts with a vengence. it is a lie to say LCM was prosecuted for a crime ,He was never even charged, it was a CIVIL lawsuit...keep it straight. The way had money to be had at the time loads of it.. and it was ripe for the taking why not sue? why settle? because a lawyer will keep the motion open forever as long as the money is coming in as HIS paycheck heck yeah he can find a reason to keep it going for years and years. helps him it does. or frankly they thought they would lose and guess who has to pay the lawyer when YOU LOSE? that is right if you sue someone and lose YOU have to pay the lawyers fees... of both . could get a little dicey with something to lose in that case .. so you take the money and go. the files are closed in this case and they are not allowed to discuss the outcome hmmmm. two sides to the story. keep it straight.

I do not think it is an excuse. I worked with a woman who had a child who was afraid of grass , the stuff growing from dirt you know on the ground. the child was 8 years old and had NEVER really had much dealings with the stuff. They had a nice large home in the inner city and a large yard .. yet her children where not allowed to play outside in the yard, ever. to much crime . Once in a while they would take the kids to a park but inner city parks are not really safe either. So they played inside always and away from the window. We had a four year old a shot by his dads drug dealer in a business deal gone bad.. a 12 year old shot by a drive tho shooting at nine o clock at night walking home frm church. the city does not have the large stores no walmarts no large tops or local stores only the convenience stores with junk food and high prices, to go to the store on the bus with kids is an effort of time and money as it is an half hour ride each way on the bus. The large stores claim they can not go into the city because it is not worth the crime they must pay for from thiefs and problem workers and theft from worker. I believe it. Where I live we have a fresh air fund where kids from large citys can maybe see a lake for the the first time in their life by staying with a family who takes them in for two weeks. some marvel that stars are REALLY in the sky ! they have never seen them with city lights and buildings blaring out the nature .around them. gyms cost money alot of money and they do not set up shop in drug infested nieghborhoods or low income ghettos . It is true about the cost of food... unbelievable i can not Stand spending twenty dollars for a good meal I have to prepare yet if I want to eat healthy it costs alot. NO more street markets with vegatables and fruit like the old days they will get robbed for a few dollars. Many people in the city stay home and do not go out , no caars or no gas money to go anywhere and to leave your house means the neighbor can rob it.

I guess it is about getting what you want in the marriage. My cousin has a nice marriage they seem happy , they went through a thing when their daughter got involved with a man dad didnt approve of and seperated but worked it out. I begged her to tell me the secret, I laugh as she stated honestly "neither one of us likes sex"/ lol yes they have ONE child adopted and another one of natural means. funny huh? she said if they never do it again they wouldnt care and as far as they know neither one of them cheats. ha but some people cant deal with changes within a marriage and seek their "needs" and I mean just sex outside the marriage although I would say something is missing in the marriage what if one of them gets depressed and doesnt want to anymore but the other does? neither would care as long as they work it out between them as was said earlier. why ruin a marriage over something so simple ? My niece poor dear got a disease and found out the hard way what her man was doing and they worked it out, honestly you have to know the guy but he was drunk and she was a slut... my niece and him worked it out and let me tell ya... they are better for it.

When communication breaks down where do ya begin? your so right sweet pea.. an affair may be a scream for help. I have seen marriages recover after somone has had an affair. it is a wake up call for sure. maybe a person just wants attention and does the behaviour to try to get the other to notice. life is so full of responsibilities and work to be done, funny how none of that stuff is in the "vow" made on the special day of your wedding. I think married people forget that. And the fact is people get married for love, not to be hassled by just one more , if you can not have fun with the one you married who do you have fun with? somone eles.

so when you get married it is no longer acceptable to be a self? to share who you are to grow and become to reach for your dreams? together it cant be done? i do believe the self sacrafice come with a price. it always does. whether it be abuse, bitterness or cheating , a person who can not see the fact they need to be responsible for their own helath , idenity , finance , and happiness is nothing more than a darn parasite after awhile. it is draining and unfair and why so many many marriages fail. lose your dreams in life sacrafice all for another and what do you have to give anyone? nothing. nothing but taking is left then and that is what I would define as the most selfish position in life.

I am talking about folks who cheat hello. It is a life time commintment to one another, a partnership to share each others life. suppose to be a good thing. not a ball and chain. of responsibilities and commintments hello recognize them , and still be in love. if a 20 year old threatens your marriage.. something is wrong with your marriage. a good marriage wouldnt consider a 20 year a threat, a marriage that has different priorities other than the two becoming one which I would say implies happiness for both, is fried. children are a part of life. I do not like people who use children as an excuse for being miserable. I do see it , and I think the children suffer the most in those types of arrangements cause kids are smart and they feel what is going on and if the parents are not happy the whole family suffers horribly. staying together for the kids is not a marriage it is a contract like a business deal, no wonder some would cheat . others would be content to stay and be unhappy and wait for the day to either get out or to make the other as miserable as they are in life. it is co-depency .. marriage is about having the priority of one anothering which means taking care of one another and a person incapable of taking care of their own self is a dependent not a partner. I do see alot of parent child relatinships that people call marriages, and in those types of marriages the cheaters are looking for a lve a adult a relationship built on what marriage is created for to help ne another in life. but they have that contract and many are afraid to break a deal ,no matter how much they are paying for it. to me that isnt marriage in the first place.

I also do not think it is fair to turn into a fat lazy slob after a few years of marriage. A huge part of loving anyone is loving yourself and a person who is incapable of taking care of their own needs , is selfish thinking the partner should pick up the slack. it is a marriage and as much as life throws at families today that we cant control , being happy , staying healthy, and maintianing a self that is worth giving to someone in marriage is primary in making it a good thing.

I see alot of marriages like that , boring same old same old, responsibilities, kids, money all the trapping domestic life offers. many people when they sign up may be shocked on how it really is. and then it is like a trap. and they decide it really may not be worth the hassles, and they get lonely, really lonely for good times for the time love was just love.. or just good sex. but many try to keep their commintments to all the family life offers, but when do you get a chance to be happy? so you cheat for a chance to be happy to find peace to be able to just be without the hassle of all the work and responsibility a family requires. in twenty years when all the kids are gone and you look at your spouse and say whew we made it? and find out you do not even know who they are anymore. I see few marriages in which the spouses grow and be and are truly happy with each other as time goes on. like any contract it seems to be what needs to be done mostly... and life is only so long . I like the ones who are healthy but I see so few. but they do not want to hurt anyone, and they are good and trying to do the right thing.. life is what you make it and all. everyone deserves to happy once in a while without the stress of what it turned out to be. who knew? God knows no one wants an ugly divorce when maybe you can fill in the gap with someone eles . till it gets better. maybe some day. happens all the time. I understand why married people cheat, what I do not understand is why single people get involved for years and waste their life away thinking it will be more than what it is. it is easy to say "just leave" : but not when you have a two income lifestyle and you both love your children and you know it isnt abusive just stale and boring and everyday easy familiar, so no one metions the slip, because life is to busy with the responsibilities that are in front of you. I think sometimes when people cheat it isnt because the stopped loving the spouse , it is just depression or boredom or just lackof living etc... they do not want to hurt what they have made together.

I believe I am to think. for me that is closure of a sorts I often leave doors open to allow for change I try not to burn any bridges. it isnt always poossible.

I think we live in grace with all the wrong doing, each personmust live with what he can. I know some marriages that want the adultery to make the job easier and they do no have to do it. me? I do not get alot of what marriage is anyway. to old to learn now.